Journal - Hi all..SWIM's codeine addiction

[Rainbowzz]

SWIM is trying to come clean from codeine.. was up to about 32 tylenol 1's a day/about eight T3's a day. SWIM has also beein taking oxy every so often and is now trying to get clean. Also has fibromyalgia and severe back problems and mobility problems so cannot get totally clean as must take the Tylenol 3 to be able to function.

Just came out to family and spent night in hospital, now SWIM's Mom is handling all Tylneol 3s so they get three a day as per doc.

Withdrawls are hell.. even though SWIM knows that the dose they have been taking is small.. SWIM has been taking this much codeine for almost a year. The depression without it and the lack of motivation is crippling as SWIM is also the mother of a ten month old. Swim knows that she needs to be clean for her son but its just so hard.

SWIM has been smoking small amounts of marijuana to try to stave off the pain from the pain condition, and it works, but is currently out.

SWIM is feeling rather hopeless and agitated. SWIM just read Patient X's story and has a little bit of hope, but is having a hard time with depression. Should add that SWIM also has co-morbid mental health issues - specifically PTSD,Borderline personality and severe Panic Disorder. IT just all is seeming to much and SWIM just wants to give up even though she knows she is killing her liver with the tylenol.

Hoping to get ideas and hope from all the other SWIMS out there.

[Gradient]

Rainbowzz,

Swim understands how difficult an opiate dependancy can be. Have you looked into Tramadol? While it isn't a true opiate, it has activity at mu-opioid receptors. It also has effects upon serotonin and norepinephrine, acting similarly to an antidepressant (PM me if you're interested in more specific information - or just look around the internet). While dependency certainly remains an issue - despite a strangely held view that Tramadol is characterized by no dependancy potential - it may help alleviate many of the negative effects of opiate withdrawal while maintaining a functional lifestyle. It also isn't very difficult to obtain discretely.

With a diagnosis of fibromyalgia, however, it shouldn't be overly difficult for swiy to obtain prescriptions for true opiates - if that is indeed appealing to you.

Good luck Rainbowzz.

Reputation Comments on this post:

thanks for the reccomendation of tramadol, although it was already tried it was a good suggestion!

[Rainbowzz]

SWIM gives thanks for SWIY's post.

Tramadol has been tried and was completely ineffective for the level of pain experienced by SWIM SWIM has a severe case of Fibro and also has degenerative discs and scoliosis and kyphosis and an unstable sacrum, leading to high levels of pain and mobility issues.

SWIM thanks you for the suggestion however!

Rainbowzz added 5 Minutes and 32 Seconds later...

SWIM wants to add that she was once an addict of Extacy, Meth, PCP, Ketamine, everything you could think of except heroin and crack. SWIM got clean from everything as soon as she found out she was pregnant with her son. Thus, SWIM has hope that she can get a handle on this addiction as well. SWIM did it once so swim should be able to do it again! But there is still that part of SWIM that says "come on, its just small.. your liver can recover and you can quit next week/next day/next month/next year/some other time"

Swim is reminded of Patient X's Good Angel and Bad angel and relates to that very much.

The worst is because it is so small a dose of drug to be addicted to, SWIM feels like she is making a big deal out of nothing compared to other SWIY's with major heroin addiction.

SWIM is struggling but remains hopeful to get a handle on all the issues.

[AvidFan]

X is just popping in to lend some support and to wish SWIRainbowzz well. No addiction is small. Opiate addiction is a real bitch, but other addictions are just as powerful - people can be physically addicted to gambling, sex, shopping, just about anything, because of how addiction hijacks the brain's neurochemical processes and plays about with its reward centres through dopamine release, etc. Opiates just add to the problems addiction can already psychologically and physically pose.

Not sure if the idea is to come off codeine, or to somehow get the pain relief without the acetaminophen in the Tylenol - if so there are better ways of getting the pain relief without eating all that bad stuff. Then again, X is not convinced about the use of opiates for long term pain management (except in the terminally ill) as the dose will just need to keep going up, and up, and up. It's a balancing act.

Talk to SWIY's doctor if you can. This link may be of interest:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/540128_4

In fact do a lot of googling before speaking to the doctor - ask them if SWIY can try different things, arm SWIYourself with research, etc, if SWIY can. Not sure how the system works in Canada, but there has to be a better way of managing the conditions than eating all those tylenols.

X wishes SWIRainbowzz the very best in finding the right path. Remember, Good Angel CAN win. X (and the great Dr D, and Rokman Nash, Richard Smoker et al) are current living proof, although doubt SWIus have experienced so much pain

Good luck, will try to offer as much support as possible.

[Rainbowzz]

SWI all of you are just wonderful. I am so glad SWIM decided to have me post here about her issues.

Unfortunately SWIM managed to con her mom into giving her the bottle of tylenol 1's today, and has dosed 12 of the little bastards. Just a little, for a lift, to get rid of the frustration and hating the feeling of being in my own skin.

SWIM has decided, though, although very scared to, reveal to psychiatrist some things she has been keeping secret - I.E. - SWIMs past hard drug use for years(XTC,METH,Coke,Ketamine,Mushrooms - everything except heroin and crack pretty much) and SWIMs current problem with codeine. SWIM is hoping anxiety meds(benzos) are not withdrawn completely as she has been on them for about thirteen years for anxiety and requires them or goes through viscious anxiety attacks. SWIM hopes that Doc can find a way to help her manage this and get to a point where SWIM is comfortable in her own skin, which is most of the reason SWIM takes the little buggers, although she does NEED them from time to time for pain, she doesnt need the doses she takes. SWIM feels like she just doesn't like how she feels.. depression perhaps, anxiety too, comorbid MH issues need to be dealt with. SWIM has decided to stop pretending to be well and fine mentally and actually reach out to people IRL and online and let them know that, okay, maybe she is NOT totally ok.. and maybe thats all right. SWIM has a hard time doing that being a mom of a ten month old because she really feels like she should be strong for her son. But SWIM is starting to realize that by doing that she is making everything worse in the long run, and its better to ask for help now when its needed then wait until the floodgates let go and all hell breaks loose.

SWIM thanks everyone of SWIY and is here to support too - SWIM beleives that healing comes from support and work in supporting other addicts, and is only a PM away if anyone of SWIY needs to vent, rant, talk, heal, ect.

SWIM had a slip today, but will go back to trying tomorrow. Everyday is new, and that is what SWIM is focusing on. So today SWIM fell off the bandwagon, but tomorrow SWIM can try again. SWIM's pretty frustrated by the fact that she knows the withdrawls will start all over again when she had a few good days.. and SWIM knows its a low dose but gets the withdrawls all the same.

Anyways, lol, SWIM is ranting now and babbling so will close here. May add more as the day goes on.

[AvidFan]

Well feel free to babble if it helps.

This may be a bit Zen or something, but you can only start where you are right now. A journey of ten thousand miles starts with a single footstep.

I think amid the babble (lol), SWIY has taken the first few steps by acknowledging the situation, posting here, and deciding to start trying

[Dickon]

Brilliant. Keep up the good work. We're all rooting for you!

Dickon

[RoboCodeine7610]

Rainbouzz,did you,by any chance,write a journal on your withdrawals on some other site?If not, I remember reading about a case really similar to yours.A mother, quitting because of her son,was addicted to T#3 and when she got her liver checked she only had some minor damage.

[Rainbowzz]

Robo...

SWIM did infact post a journal to psychcentral.com... is that where you saw it? Otherwise, no, nowhere else.

[rokman nash]

Keep it up Rain,Dave's proud of you.As swim knows life is much better when NOT viewed through the haze of narcotics.Daves pulling for you.

Good thoughts

[RoboCodeine7610]

Well,Rainbowzz, I don't really remember where I read it.But I do remember reading about a mother who was addicted to T3s and decided to quit for her son.She said that whenever she was out with her friends,they had to make plans around getting the pills.She also said that she couldn't sleep at all so she took one T3 to help her sleep.The next night she took 1/2 a pill.She then called some doctor line or something and they asked her where she lived but she was afraid to tell them because she thought they might take her son away.

They told her that even taking 1/2 a pill was just gonna prolong the withdrawal and that she should stop taking them.Then,she called her ex-husband to have a chat with him.She really wanted to tell him about the situation but was afraid he'd use it against her to gain the kid's custody.

A truly heatbreaking story,is this the story you posted?I really hope it all goes well for you.

Robo

[Rainbowzz]

Nope. Can't say that was swim. How sad though.. I'' definetly keep that SWIus in my thoughts.

[humdroid]

Ivy says she has read loads of bits and bobs online about kratom as an effective thing against opoid withdrawals.
Ivy hears that, although kratom can come with its own addiction implications, these are very much less than opoid withdrawals.
Ivy hears, that kratom is more effective if the tolerance to opoids is lowish.
She also says kratom isnt an opoid but acts on the same receptors.
She suggests you have a look at the kratom section on these forums, and google.

[oxynomo]

Swiy s/b on day 9 ,no codeine.That would be great!If swiy can hang in, should be coming round soon.Getting well takes time,be patient.Best wishes o

[Rainbowzz]

Hey all!

Of course, just when SWIM had a good eight days in, the fibro hit. And hit hard!

SWIM ended up in the ER because of severe pain, they gave her a triple strong dose of toradol, and sent her home with another RX for T3.

Well, SWIM was smart about it this time, told the pharmacy she didn't want anymore than 1 day at a time. So they are literally going to be giving swim her max of 3 a day, at a time. SWIMs aunt has agreed to pick them up every morning and drop them off around 9 am. Which is incredibly helpful.

Swim is STILL in a gross amount of pain right now, can barely move head back and forth from the pain in neck and back muscles.. but is managing. Refuse to go with anything stronger, and will stick it through as if she has a problem with codeine then she will definetly have a problem with oxy, because oxy is fabulous...

So, Sadly swim had to break her streak, but as soon as the pain is down to a tolerable level swim won't be able to get the tylenol.. she only has a scrip for 7 days anyways so even if she tries she wont be able to keep taking them. Just hoping the pain calms down soon because swim is literally nauseas and in tears the muscles hurt so much

One day at a time though, right? Gotta do what you gotta do. Swim went into this understanding that she would have to take em sometimes no matter what, shes a single mom and needs to be able to function to take care of her son when the pain hits. Just gotta keep reminding swimself that if she screws up and takes too many they will stop working at normal doses and swim will be screwed.

[oxynomo]

Swim's so sad to hear about Swiys trip to hospital.Hope swiy is doing better.Swim always sees ads for Lyrica and Cymbalta.Has swiy ever tried any?Might be better than the T3s?Swim knows the pain thing sucks.Wishing all good for ya.o

[chillinwill]

Originally Posted by Rainbowzz

Hey all!

Of course, just when SWIM had a good eight days in, the fibro hit. And hit hard!

SWIM ended up in the ER because of severe pain, they gave her a triple strong dose of toradol, and sent her home with another RX for T3.

Well, SWIM was smart about it this time, told the pharmacy she didn't want anymore than 1 day at a time. So they are literally going to be giving swim her max of 3 a day, at a time. SWIMs aunt has agreed to pick them up every morning and drop them off around 9 am. Which is incredibly helpful.

Swim is STILL in a gross amount of pain right now, can barely move head back and forth from the pain in neck and back muscles.. but is managing. Refuse to go with anything stronger, and will stick it through as if she has a problem with codeine then she will definetly have a problem with oxy, because oxy is fabulous...

So, Sadly swim had to break her streak, but as soon as the pain is down to a tolerable level swim won't be able to get the tylenol.. she only has a scrip for 7 days anyways so even if she tries she wont be able to keep taking them. Just hoping the pain calms down soon because swim is literally nauseas and in tears the muscles hurt so much

One day at a time though, right? Gotta do what you gotta do. Swim went into this understanding that she would have to take em sometimes no matter what, shes a single mom and needs to be able to function to take care of her son when the pain hits. Just gotta keep reminding swimself that if she screws up and takes too many they will stop working at normal doses and swim will be screwed.

Wait I thought Toradol was a non-narcotic pain killer? Red Rock's ex girlfriend used to have to get shots of this in the ER when she was having severe pain because they knew she was an heroin addict and she said that the Toradol did nothing for the pain though.

[Rainbowzz]

Yep, toradol is non narcotic. The problem is because of its strength it cant be used long term. so the single shot was to get the pain down, then follow up with the tylenol 3.

[rhudson]

Originally Posted by Rainbowzz

SWIM is trying to come clean from codeine.. was up to about 32 tylenol 1's a day/about eight T3's a day. SWIM has also beein taking oxy every so often and is now trying to get clean. Also has fibromyalgia and severe back problems and mobility problems so cannot get totally clean as must take the Tylenol 3 to be able to function.

Just came out to family and spent night in hospital, now SWIM's Mom is handling all Tylneol 3s so they get three a day as per doc.

Withdrawls are hell.. even though SWIM knows that the dose they have been taking is small.. SWIM has been taking this much codeine for almost a year. The depression without it and the lack of motivation is crippling as SWIM is also the mother of a ten month old. Swim knows that she needs to be clean for her son but its just so hard.

SWIM has been smoking small amounts of marijuana to try to stave off the pain from the pain condition, and it works, but is currently out.

SWIM is feeling rather hopeless and agitated. SWIM just read Patient X's story and has a little bit of hope, but is having a hard time with depression. Should add that SWIM also has co-morbid mental health issues - specifically PTSD,Borderline personality and severe Panic Disorder. IT just all is seeming to much and SWIM just wants to give up even though she knows she is killing her liver with the tylenol.

Hoping to get ideas and hope from all the other SWIMS out there.

Great job on the progress you have made so far. If your mom has the T3's and you can't get but three of them, great. But you must realize 32 T3's contains 9.6 grams of acetaminophen. This dose would be potentially lethal to many people, especially if taken ever day. Stop using immediately and have your liver tested. I'm sorry to be the bearer of this news but you could be in serious danger and not realize it. YOU MUST CEASE INGESTING ACETAMINOPHEN. Switch to the oxy if you have to, though that is far more addictive.

If you are going to continue taking them, learn how to perform a cold water extraction (this is imperfect but much better). Please stop taking the APAP though, I do not want to see you die. Really. SWIM will teach you the cold water extraction himself if you're going to insist on taking the T3's.

BTW Kratom will probably alleviate most of your withdrawal symptoms since you were taking codeine almost exclusively, but be careful of switching one substance for another. Best to just tough it out...

Good luck.

Reputation Comments on this post:

thanks for the info about codeine and APAP! *hugs*

[Rainbowzz]

Hi rhudson,

It was actually tylenol 1 that swim was taking 32 of. Not T3. She has since gotten tylenol 3 from her doc and doesnt have to take so much to get effective pain releif! In fact, shes only had to take it twice in the last nine days, so she is doing pretty good. You might want to read up on the rest of the thread if you haven't just to get an idea where swim is.

Thank you so much for your concern though. Did have liver tested, miraculously, I have no idea how, only slightly elevated enzymes! Swim is very very very lucky.

[rhudson]

Originally Posted by Rainbowzz

Hi rhudson,

It was actually tylenol 1 that swim was taking 32 of. Not T3. She has since gotten tylenol 3 from her doc and doesnt have to take so much to get effective pain releif! In fact, shes only had to take it twice in the last nine days, so she is doing pretty good. You might want to read up on the rest of the thread if you haven't just to get an idea where swim is.

Thank you so much for your concern though. Did have liver tested, miraculously, I have no idea how, only slightly elevated enzymes! Swim is very very very lucky.

Tylenol 1 has just as much APAP in it so it's equally dangerous, in fact, moreso because a large dose must be taken to get enough of the lower level of codeine in it. I am very happy to hear her liver turned out OK though.

[Rainbowzz]

SWIM totally agrees with you.. when she started she didnt know this, and just assumed it was safe. It all started very innocently with an impacted tooth.

But now swim is down to a max dose of 3 T3 a day, so shes doing really well. and agian thats only had to happen two days out of nine.

yeah, dont know how pulled off the liver thing but

[RoboCodeine7610]

Thank you so much for your concern though. Did have liver tested, miraculously, I have no idea how, only slightly elevated enzymes! Swim is very very very lucky.

You know, I've heard many,many stories like this one.People taking like 6-10g of APAP daily for years and end up with some minor liver damage.

Maybe APAP is not as toxic as we all think...

[chillinwill]

^^It might not be but Red Rock certainly wouldn't take that risk if he could avoid it

[Rainbowzz]

So Swim is now two days away from having to take the codeine.. and is getting hit with sickness AGAIN.

Ugh....

this time, major flu like symptoms, shaking, sweating, cold chills, nausea.. either she actually has the flu or its withdrawl.

But, she still isint giving in to just taking the pills, she got rid of what she had left to stop her from even thinking about it. Pain is gone for now, too bad shes so sick.

anyways, just a little update.