Hitler a meth addict?

[motorhead]

This topic was inspired by a comment in the EVIL thread in this forum where daeron states that hitler was a meth addict. First of all im not starting this thread to start a war(haha i just made a pun and didnt mean to)of words or call u a liar daeron. Its just that i have an interest in history, the second world war, hitler, and how the whole damned mess came to be.


There are tonnes of books written about Hitler and the war, Ive read my fair share and from what i can deciphere there is alot of pure speculation about hitler which is not limited to his drug use. Hitler suffered from a few ailments, notably intestinal problems, and thought he had a hell ofa lot more. It is generally accepted that he was a hypochondriac. He had a personal physician, Dr Theador Morell, a loyal follower of the furher and a quack according to many members of hitlers inner circle.


Morell did give hitler ALOT of medications, in the form of pills, drops, and iv injection, you name it. They contained various things including belladonna, strichnine, cocaine(very small amounts) in drops for conjunctivis, and morphine for his stomach pains. He probably didnt even need all this crap and like i mentioned alot of the higher ups around hitler even suspected Morells motives, but hitler liked him and kept him around.


Now we all know that the reich feed their soldiers meth to keep em goin in their feeble attempt to stop the allied advance, but whether hitler took meth or any other amphetamines to keep himself fueled during the war is pure speculation. It isnt really documented in any of the doctors notes, including morell, who treated hitler that they gave him regular shots of meth. Hitler disproved of recreational drug use, he didnt even drink, and he spoke disprovingly of his morphine abusing cronies, especially the fat bastard Herman Goering. However he was a raving loonie with wild mood swings, often severe paranoia and never slept that much, so maybe he was a methhead. Im just saying its speculation. In the end he did hit the opies hard himself when even he must have seen the end.


So there it is. If anyone else has any info or stuff on this topic id like to hear it. Just thought it was a cool idea for a thread, something a little different i guess. And by the way i hate Hitler and all he did, and i hope all the nazi bastards are rotting in hell.


cheers

[Pinkavvy]

forms of speed have been givin to armies by the governing forces for years, not just the nazi's ... but also the americans. speed = longer working days and zombie type easily controlled soldiers.

[motorhead]

Yes, not only speed, the americans tested alot of fooked up substances on innocent soldiers in the 50's and 60's and beyond. Has anybody seen the movie Jacobs Ladder. Excellent movie to watch while in altered states as well

[daeron]

you are certainly right it is all a speculation,nothing more.But since for some strange reason my mom was fascinated with hitlers life( not that sheapproved his crimes,or that i grew up in a skinhead like family,or anything.LOL) i have picked up a thing or two.And in one book ive read,that he was pumped meth at least at 2 occasions(also there was a photocopy of the document signed by the Dr.Morell).


There is an another theory that he used speed(benzedrine) way earlier,during his terapy with some doc i cant remember,because he supposedly suffered some psych disorder because something that happened to him during the 1stWW.One theory is that he took a lungful of phosgene gas,during the fights.


Also there are are a ton of records that claimallies fed their soldiers with a shitload of amph.SO4,as did the gremans,the japanese pumped their kamikaze pilots with meth,the only ones who ate shit were the russians(and resistance movements everywhere).


As for Hitler being evil...hmm well i said before i dont believe in "good" and "evil".He managed to convince the whole nation to commit atrocities,he had a great propaganda machinery;and maybe he would have pulled it all off if he hadnt got too greedy,and if he hadnt started the "final solution".And I personally think that he believed untill the very end he was doing the right thing.


And if it wasnt for hitler,the WWII would have started anyway,tensions between new and old superpowers were growing,and the war was inevitable.The old ones wanted to keep the supremacy,and the new ones wanted the "new world order" and the reallocation of power..


great topic btw

[Dimitri]

On German websites I could find quite a lot about Hitlers Meth /
amphetamine abuse but as you mentioned the validity of this data...I
don't know for sure. But here it's kind of an fact, that he uses it as
well as his companions & his soldiers (Pervitin was the brand name
of the pills). But for Hitler it was known that he got it injected, not
the oral way.



There is a quite reliable German book just discussing this issue:

Part 1: http://www.gruenekraft.com/permalink:rk53.html

Part 2: http://www.gruenekraft.com/eudocimus.php?path=root%2Fcatalog %2Frk%2Frk57&show=&h=74
Edited by: Dimitri

[daeron]

wow I actually managed to read it all,despite the fact that I haven said a word of deutsch since highschool.(the description,not the book,heh)


btw what does "Maennlichkeitsideal" mean?what kind of ideal?

[motorhead]

Damn, wish i could read German lol. Thanks for the cool replies, definately a topic for endless debate as with anything regarding history. I am intrigued aboutwhat you mentioned about hitler and how the war began daeron, I would enjoy a good thread about that one but i guess it doesnt belongin this forumlol. We could take this one in so many directions like the whole feeding soldiers drugs thing, the hypocricy of governments denying their citizens the freedom to choose drugs while pumping the militarymachine that provides freedom full of dope etc. anyway ill see if theirs more interest in this thread and see what happens.

[Dimitri]

Männlichkeitsideal ...difficult to find a word in English...

for "Maennlichkeit" I found the following translations, don't know
which one is the best suitable one: maleness, manhood, manhood,
manliness, masculinity

and ideal is similar in English, maybe in this term more used as the word for "trend", "image" "conception" .

I think he was quite addicted. But I m not so deep into the topic, that
I could bring proves. It's kind of common sense, that he was, but as we
know about drugs: the crowd is not always alright...



There is a quite interesting german movie about the last days of Hitler
called "Der Untergang" meaning something like "the Fall" or the
"destruction". The director tried to be quite strong on the known
reality. Although they don't show Hitler junking his meth and speed

he looks quite like someone in the beginning & middle a amphetamin
psychosis. And his full behaviour and biographie fits perfect to this
drug (agression, pushing his self confidence & so on...)

Also I realized, that he slept quite a little in the movie. But that might be just my interpretation...

[daeron]

yeah i saw that movie,too.It is a great film,the actors are amazing.Hmm i missed theA umlaut(is that how its called?),mannlichkeit is something like humanity,human raceor something,right?So it could mean something like humaninarian ideals,or something akin to philanthropy maybe?


btw look up the book called something like "the hitlers doctor",i forgot the name of the author,but i dont think itstoo hard to find.


What fascinates me the most is the collective euphoria in the Deutschland in the 30ties.In a few years of timepeople witnessed the rebirth of a once mighty country,all lead by a crazed dreamer promising them the road right to the very gates of heaven.Also look at the whole conseption of the Hilters "new" europe-very like the old rome,with all the charm of the old world.People wanted to believe it could be done,and they didnt think of the consequences,if they thought at all.


Thats why you cant hate hitler,motorhead-without the people backinguphitler and the nazifucks;nothing would have happened.He would be just another raving washed up painter wannabe.If you want to hate someone,than hate the stupidity of the masses.


PS i just saw a great graffiti: Bush+sheep=Bleeeer LOL!

[motorhead]

Sure i can hate hitler. Im not debating that he took germany out of total squalor and that he gave the people something to beleive in or even that remobalization and the annexing of certain territories was wrong under the stiffling oppression of the versailles treaty. I'll just say,as with most people out there, that the mass execution of 6 million people was total fucked up, and this was done, remember, WITHOUT, the knowledge of the masses. And to argue that hitler himself knew nothing of the holocaust and that Himmler was the brainchild of the final solution is hogwash as well.


However, as i mentioned above, as much as i enjoy all this discussion about history, to further take this thread in this direction is WAY out ofthis forums scope and may incure the wrath of the mods lol


cheers

[daeron]

just bumping the thread..
<CENTER>
<H2>Adolf Hitler
(1889-1945)</H2>
Methamphetamine addict?
a prematurely aged Adolf Hitler (1945)


</CENTER>


From 1942, the Nazi leader Adolf Hitler received daily injections of methamphetamine from his personal physician, Dr Theodor Morell. Hitler's ailments have been attributed to everything from tertiary syphilis to Parkinson's disease. But many of The Führer's clinical signs and symptoms may have been caused by his exotic drug regimen.


How could Hitler continue to exert such a grip on the German people until the last days of the War? Talking to a prison psychologist while awaiting trial, ex-Governor General of Poland Hans Frank (1900-1946) describes Hitler's charismatic effect on him...
<BLOCKQUOTE>"I can hardly understand it myself. There must be some basic evil in me. In all men. Mass hypnosis? Hitler cultivated this evil in man. When I saw him in that movie in court, I was swept along again for a moment, in spite of myself. Funny, one sits in court feeling guilt and shame. Then Hitler appears on the screen and you want to stretch out your hand to him . . . . It's not with horns on his head or with a forked tail that the devil comes to us, you know. He comes with a captivating smile, spouting idealistic sentiments, winning one's loyalty. We cannot say that Adolf Hitler violated the German people. He seduced us." </BLOCKQUOTE>[/I]

[uqlfy]

Originally Posted by motorhead

We could take this one in so many directions like the
whole feeding soldiers drugs thing, the hypocricy of governments
denying their citizens the freedom to choose drugs while pumping the
militarymachine that provides freedom full of dope etc. anyway
ill see if theirs more interest in this thread and see what
happens.

The hypocrisy is still alive and kickin today. The last two US leaders
both had "youthfull indiscretions" which would send most us of to jail.
The governator of CA most likely used steriods. Also the governer of I
belive its MI was a pro wrestler, try to tell me he didnt use roids.
Its widely believed that Senator Kennedy is wet drunk. I know a State
Trooper who I used to party on some crazy shit with. The list could go
on.

What is amazing is the general masses acceptance of these peoples
behavior while still considering their own behavior deviant and worthy
of punishment. What is it about leaders like Hitler that gets basically
good people to follow them? Why do people tend overlook the faults of
someone in power yet deride their neighbor for the same flaws?

Edited by: uqlfy

[motorhead]

Yes uglfy i totally agree. I dont know if you smoke or not but u should read my thread in drugs not covered by other forums about how the government is the ultimate drug pusher by peddling outcrazy expensive cigrettes. I live in canada and the high price is mostly tax.


Haha ya mr Bush, king republican, imperial commander of the conservative drug war agenda right wing was a drunk and coke user. Makes ya wanna scream.


Hey dearon hows it goin, cool post. Ya thats a very good point for someone to argue that hitler was indeed a heavy meth user. His health and apperance rapidly deteriorated the last few years of his life. His age and the intense stress of the war were certainly factors, but his various drug cocktails, whatever they may have been, were a definate contributor. Its cool to see someone else on here with such a keen interest in this topic.


Cheers

[daeron]

hey motorhead,yknow i have always been interested in history,i even wanted to study arcaheology,but alas life pushed me in the direction of chemistry.........but damnit all to hell if i dont end my life somewhere in the central america diggin am2 of dirt.How i end it is a different story..


hey if youre still into the subject,or just would like an another perspectivelook into this(i havent had the time to read it yet,though):


http://www.fpp.co.uk/books/Morell/index.html

[motorhead]

Thanks for the link, although the file that i downloaded was damaged and couldnt be opened lol. No worries i found a copy of it on Bearshare. After reading it-well speed reading it, there are plenty of dry parts about morells personality and the doctors observations of his urine and feces lol-the drug in question was called Vitamultin-Forte, first administered by Morell on March 14,1944 to combat hitlers fatigue. The mysterious ingredient that even this text cannnot confirm was in the solution was indeed Pervitin as mentioned by dimitri above. Pervertin is the Chezq(sp) term for methamphetamine and when i did a google search on it all the sites that came up were not in english. So whether the pervertin of the time was indeed meth or that it was in the vitalmutin isnt even confirmed by Morells own notes in this text.


However, the book does mention that in addition to the 1% coke eyedrops, Hitler was given, in mid 44 as well, a 10% cocaine solution to combat sinus problems by a Dr Erwin Giesing. Hitlers response to the solution was"Its as though im not ill at all, I just wish my head could always be so clear. I hope your not turning me into a coke addict!" Ha


So theresmore fodder to contemplate. Its interesting that alot of the sites i visited searching on this topic attribute the first synthesis of methamphetamine to the Germans. TO my knowledge the germans came up with amphetimine in the late 1800's and it was the Japanese that first synthed meth in 1919.


cheers

[Alexander_Praves]

On the last images of Hitler he's greeting members of the HJ. His left hand trembles quite notably which is nearly always explained as possibly the result of either Parkinson's disease or syphilis. SWIM, however, believes that it might actually have been a withdrawal sympton, seeing how Dolf was an amphetamine user. Does anyone else give creedence to this theory?

It also amazes SWIM that not more historians have payed attention to his drug use (especially since Göring's morphine habbit is discussed in every biography SWIM has read about him). It may very well have affected a large portion of his decisions and even played a part in developing his megalomaniacal nature.

[Pugsley]

Motor Head: So theresmore fodder to contemplate. Its interesting that alot of the sites i visited searching on this topic attribute the first synthesis of methamphetamine to the Germans. TO my knowledge the germans came up with amphetimine in the late 1800's and it was the Japanese that first synthed meth in 1919.

THis was also my understanding, but the rumor(yes that may be all it is) I heard was
that he had chocolates made which contained methamphetamine. I'm pretty sure the German Paratroopers were issued straight Amphetamine at this point, but given the year (circa after 1930) it is imaginable that Hitler may have had the more powerful (and dare I say more pleasurable) methamphetamine since it had been in circulation since it's creation in Japan some eleven years earlier.
Pugsley

[oggy]

Hitler should be forgiven for his crime, as it was the drugs that made him do these crazy things not a normal human being.

Again its the Satan (Man) behind it all pumping ourselves full of drugs to make us do insane things, wasn't Hitlers fault, just like it wouldn't be your fault if you were high and hurt someone as you wouldn't do such a thing sober.

[Ilsa]

Originally Posted by oggy

Hitler should be forgiven for his crime, as it was the drugs that made him do these crazy things not a normal human being.

Again its the Satan (Man) behind it all pumping ourselves full of drugs to make us do insane things, wasn't Hitlers fault, just like it wouldn't be your fault if you were high and hurt someone as you wouldn't do such a thing sober.

i must respectfully disagree with you, oggy. a drug is a thing, an inanimate thing with no will of it's own. it is the misuse and abuse of a drug, the poor choices on the part of the animate and willful USER, that result in consequences.

hitler harbored an irrational hatred that manifested itself in unusually cruel ways--was this catalyzed by the amphetamine psychosis/wd's? very possibly. but HIS choices as an individual drove the events that made him infamous.


i do agree with finding the concept of god in nature

[SmokeRings]

SWIM seriously hopes that oggy is kidding. SWIM hopes you don't think that people should be "pardoned" so to speak for doing horrible things while under the influence! Hitler was not forced to take anything, just as no one here is, or any drug user for the most part!!!

[nate81]

Originally Posted by SmokeRings

SWIM seriously hopes that oggy is kidding. SWIM hopes you don't think that people should be "pardoned" so to speak for doing horrible things while under the influence! Hitler was not forced to take anything, just as no one here is, or any drug user for the most part!!!

maybe oggy just loves to stir the shit pot....

[oggy]

No I'm telling you, I've been reading some stuff about the pagan Jesus teachings from the Essene Gospel of Peace, Jesus says Satan is everything man has created, its cooked food, processed food, any man made chemicals.

"Jesus said, and the flesh of slain beasts in his body will become his own tomb,
for I tell you truly, he who kills, kills himself, and who eats the flesh of slain beasts, eats the body of death. For in his blood every drop of their blood turns to poison." (meat acidifies the blood)

'Acid-Alkaline Balancing'.

"recent research shows that negative emotions have an acidifying effect on our tissue while positive emotions have an alkalizing effect on us. So it seems to be just as important to choose love over fear as it is to choose our foods wisely" " The PH of the human bloodstream is approximately 7.4. If the PH of the bloodstream increases or decreases by just a small amount, we will die. Lucky for us we store calcium, magnesium and other minerals in our bones that are used to buffer the acidity of our bloodstream. Our diet should be composed of about 80% alkaline-forming foods and 20% acid-forming foods. The standard American Diet(SAD)is reversed at about 80% acid-forming and 20% alkaline-forming." "The acid condition in the body that the SAD diet pulls calcium out of the bones to buffer the acidity of the bloodstream
and can lean to osteopenia or osteoporosis. As it has been proven frequently, the answer is not more calcium, but rather proper diet."

Hmmm good market for all those anxious, depressed, psychotic (plus a big bunch of other unnecessary drugs for arthritis and other illnesses that can be completely cured naturally by going back to nature. I had arthritis and psychosis, and yes its completely gone, well maybe not the psychosis that's debatable) peoples in America

"Jesus said, "For in his breath their breath to stink"
(Meat rots in the gut as it takes days to fully digest, this is why people on the Atkins diet have bad breath.)

Get your protein in from dead animals cause our bodies can't make our own protein from plant food like the other beasts!!! (oggy's been 80% raw vegan for just over 3 weeks, lost 10lbs and put on strength and size at the gym and looks feels healthier, hmmm how could that be without the need for dead animals????)

"Jesus said,
The fire of death(man created fire) kills the bread and the body.
Only eat the bread from the fire of the of life,(Sun) always eat from the table of God the fruit of the trees.
For everything else beyond these is the work of Satan and leads by the way of sin and of disease unto death."

Yay, I like the pagan Christ! God is nature

[sundayraver]

Hitler also used anabolic steroids!

[Junkhead23]

Apparently Hermann Goering was addicted to Morphine too so it seems the nazis were all up to wild parties!! lol

[SmokeRings]

Since SWIM is Agnostic, your Jesus/God/Bible references don't really do much for SWIM.
SWIM will agree w/who said oggy must be a shit stirrer, but then again, SWIM has realized that there are a lot of really ignorant people in the world.
SWIM is sorry if that comes off a bit harsh, but seriously, open up that huge brain of yours and USE it. What argument is there to give regarding the existence of Jesus/God/Bible other than a book? Miracles tend to be karma or coincidence 9 times out of 10 in SWIMs opinion.
SWIM is glad you've been reading, she read some articles online, doesn't make them the gospel or fact.