Drug info - 4-MeO-PCP

[Mish]

*** N.B. SWIM was not sure whether to place this thread in the 'Research Chemical' section of the forum, or the 'Dissociatives' section, so SWIM has placed it in both. SWIM apologises in advance to the Mods and asks if one could delete appropriately ***

This is a relatively new RC with little-to-no information about it available on the 'net. Although SWIM has not had any personal experience with it yet (although SWIM may do in the near future), he has gathered some general information regarding dosage etc...

First off - some general biochemical information that has been available for a while:

Chemical Formula: 1-(4-methoxy-1-phenylcyclohexyl)piperidine.
Chemical Structure:

4-methoxy PCP has been previously tested in animals and found to be somewhat less potent than PCP itself. Results with human volunteer confirm this. A rough estimate would be 70% as potent. This is still significant, considering how potent PCP is.

A possible advantage of this analog is decreased duration of effect. This is because the 4-methoxy group provides a site for metabolism and elimination of the drug. This is a significant point, because the extended action of PCP is a real disadvantage in cases of acute overdosage.

For those that are unfamiliar with the effects of these compounds, the experience is very hard to describe. The most commonly known compound that is directly comparable is ketamine. Ketamine's effects are quite similar to PCP and 4-methoxy PCP, but K. is much less potent.

SWIM will have some personal experience report up by mid-next week. However, in the mean time, SWIM have procured some offline subjective information from a reliable source who has been playing around with the compound and all its routes of administration for quite sometime. Hopefully this'll be of great use for anyone looking to "research" the effects of 4-MeO-PCP:

Smoked: Pretty much inactive. Unlike PCP, this is probably the worst method of ingestion

Plugging: The best method of ingestion, although some may feel uncomfortable using it this way. However, it has the greatest bioavailability via this route and thus requires a much lower dose

Insufflated: The second best method of ingestion.

Oral: Third best method of ingestion, although the difference between this and snorting is not all that noticeable, besides - SWIM assumes - a quicker. come up, faster onset of peak, and shorter total duration

Dose
N.B. SWIM have no info on doses for plugging, but a simple educated guess from extrapolation means it should be about accurate.

Light/Threshold (Oral) - 10mg
Light/Threshold (Insufflated) - 5-10mg
Light/Threshold (Plugged) - 5mg

Common (Oral) - 25mg
Common (Insufflated) - 20mg
Common (Plugged) - 10mg

Strong (Oral) - 30mg
Strong (Insufflated) - 25mg
Strong (Plugged) - 15mg

The Experience

• Somewhat stimulating, but not an uncomfortable stimulation
• Very similar effects to that of Ketamine but with more pronounced effects than commonly experiences with K
• Quite a clean feel to the high
• Duration unknown but - due to its relative potency - SWIM imagines ~2-3hrs max, with an afterglow similar to Ket

Notes
It seems that, although 4-MeO-PCP has been cited as 70% potency of that of regular PCP, the Methoxy group changes the effects significantly. Aside from shorter duration, the amount taken to achieve 'strong' effects is radically different to that of PCP. This is actually a good thing, as it significantly decreases the chances of overdose. Even the most accurate scales can be off by up to -/+ 4mg, so having to ingest a larger amount for desired effects becomes less of a risk.

SWIM's offline source also states that 100mg of 4-MeO-PCP was taken over the course of a mere few hours with absolutely no adverse effects, although retrograde amnesia was prevalent at that kind of dose (as would be with most dissociative anaesthetics). This is not to say this kind of dose is recommended, but is helpful/reassuring when it comes to testing a new RC.

As SWIM mentioned before, he has not tried this substance yet himself, and it seems not many have. However, this information is from a good source and should hopefully shed some light into this compound's effects before SWI-other people go off to try it. SWIM friend will be providing his own in-depth report sometime in the near future - most likely via the insufflated route as this seems a good method - and will attempt to keep this board updated. In the mean time, if SWIY has managed to try this, please add to these comments as any information is good.

It would be useful to get some more experience reports down. Hope this helps!

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Thanks for sharing the info in this thread.
	Great info, thanks for compiling and sharing.

[Alfa]

Please use the following format to start the 1st post of a drug info thread:

Originally Posted by trptamene

Please post info about 2C-T-2 here.

Can anyone add information about:

• names / synonyms
• molecule
• dose
• duration
• side effects
• legal status
• have there been any reported incidents with this compound?
• since when has this research chemical been available?
• stability of the molecule / compound

Experiences with 2C-T-2 should be posted here: 2C-T-2 experiences
These documents about 2C-T-2 are in the file archive
2C-T-2 pics
Research Chemicals Index - Tryptamines
Research Chemicals Index - Phenethylamines


Names: 2,5-dimethoxy-4-ethylthiophenethylamine, 2C-T-2,
IUPAC: 2,5-dimethoxy-4-ethylthiobenzenethanamine

Add image of the structure if available.

[Mish]

Okay, sorry but SWIM thought he was giving useful info there. SWIM didn't want to set it out in that above format because SWIM was providing information and only asking for experience reports and extra info as a sideline.

The above layout is useful for people looking for information on a compound, but SWIM was trying to be helpful and concise with the notes he'd gathered already on the substance. Maybe SWIM should have added a different prefix that 'Drug Info-' to the title of the thread.

Can you please explain, Alpha, where exactly SWIM should have posted this thread [b]in this format[/i], or the prefix SWIM should have used.

[fnord]

Interesting!
Im assuming this would likely fall under the analogue act in the USA. Has this hit any of the more well known RC shops yet? Is this structeraly related to any more well known RC's?

[mictihtoya]

Not an analog. As per the latest clarification from the DEA, adding a methoxy group to a molecule makes it not a positional isomer and therefore not a scheduled drug under the Analog Act.

[Mish]

SWIM did not know that, but surely that is a good thing? Means it would be available to researchers in the USA...?

[Misanthropy]

Hello all,

Could someone please help me identify the CAS# for this compound? All of this IUPAC nomenclature does absolutely no good with locating this information so far for me.

I'd just greatly appreciate the CAS# for this thing.

Thank you very much.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good question

[Alfa]

Originally Posted by mictihtoya

Not an analog. As per the latest clarification from the DEA, adding a methoxy group to a molecule makes it not a positional isomer and therefore not a scheduled drug under the Analog Act.

Please supply the source for this. The last claim I saw from the DEA is that they will go by structural or pharmacological similarity. And besides that; i think it should be very clear now that the DEA will not follow exact law. They will go after research chemicals as much as they can and they will stretch any law or regulation as much as they need to in order to get research chemical vendors behind bars.

Please read this statement from the DEA, in regard to operation web tryp. One examples of how the DEA will not be restrained by the letter of the law and is very creative in jailing your ass, is that in operation web tryp they used the wording of email addresses as proof that compounds where used as drugs. As such they will pull a new rabbit out of their hat every time.

Do NOT rely on the positional isomer statement if you dont want to find yourself in the same asituation as the people busted in operation web tryp. Consider their motives as they state them very clearly:

“The Internet has become the street corner for many drug users and traffickers. Drug pushers who use the Internet will find themselves out of business and behind bars,” Administrator Tandy said. ‘These dealers now enter into the privacy of our own homes to entice and sell destruction to our children veiled under the illusion of being safe and legal. The formulation of analogues is like a drug dealer’s magic trick meant to fool law enforcement. They didn’t fool us and we must educate our children so they are not fooled either. Today’s action will help prevent future deaths and overdoses, and will serve as notice for those dealing in designer drugs and the illegal use of the Internet.”

Capise?

[mictihtoya]

The people busted in Operation Web Tryp all had intent to supply the chemicals for human consumption. They discussed the use in humans of 5-MeO-DMT, AMT, 2C-T-7, etc. with customers and with informants/law enforcement. They had customers who were identified with nothing more than an email address like lsdluvr420@hotmail.com and such.

Without any reasonable suspicion that you are intent to use 4-MeO-PCP for human consumption, it's legal to possess and trade.

mictihtoya added 4 Minutes and 9 Seconds later...

CAS #'s for 4-MeO-PCP:

4-MeO-PCP freebase is 2201-35-6
4-MeO-PCP HCl is 2185-93-5
4-MeO-PCP picrate is 23036-17-1

mictihtoya added 2 Minutes and 52 Seconds later...

The dosage advice given at the beginning of this post is possibly quite wrong. From reports on other forums, a low dose of 4-MeO-PCP orally or plugged might be 60mg, a moderate dose 150mg, and a strong dose 300mg or more. It is more akin to ketamine's potency. It also produces an effect like ketamine's "k-hole".

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Informative post, thanks.
	Brings more accurate information on dosage.
	useful informative post, thanks

[fnord]

*bump* more reports please!

[chillinwill]

fnord, see 4-MeO-PCP Experiences for some experience reports.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thanks for posting the user in the right direction!

[ergoamide]

It's a myth that just because something isn't sold for human consumption in the
US that it's ok, legal whatever. This has not been the case for a decade or more yet people still think it's the case. This is most definately an analogue under US analogue laws, Australia's 10 or more analogue laws (twats) and New Zealand aswll I should think.

[Piglet]

4-MeO PCP turned up in the late 1970s. See the book 'The Case of the Frozen Addicts' (ISBN 0-679-42465-2) concerning it's production (the guys making the MPPP also made this stuff).