Combinations - How long after a maoi can you take MDMA?

[bignbrown]

Basicly swim had some OTC herbal sleeping things last night which were shit and didnt work, but they had 90mg of passiflora/passion flower in, and swim had 5 of them (reccomended dose), swim looked it up and it turns out passiflora/passion flower is a mild MAOI, well swim was planning on doing MDMA tonight, it would be like 24 hours after taking the herbal sleep aids, and its ment to be a mild MAOI, should i be ok?

Its not like swim is doing them at the same time or anything, swim just wants to be safe.

[RaverHippie]

SWIY might want to look up the half-life of passion flower extract to be sure. MAOI's + MDMA is cause for certain serotonin syndrome and possible death, nothing worth taking a chance over. MDMA on a weekend could certainly be skipped for a cautious measure.

[bignbrown]

Originally Posted by RaverHippie

SWIY might want to look up the half-life of passion flower extract to be sure. MAOI's + MDMA is cause for certain serotonin syndrome and possible death, nothing worth taking a chance over. MDMA on a weekend could certainly be skipped for a cautious measure.

Thats the thing, i cant find that anywhere online!

[RaverHippie]

I found this:

The early MAOIs inhibited monoamine oxidase irreversibly. When they react with monoamine oxidase, they permanently deactivate it, and the enzyme cannot function until it has been replaced by the body, which can take about two weeks. A few newer MAOIs, notably moclobemide, are reversible, meaning that they are able to detach from the enzyme to facilitate usual catabolism of the substrate. The level of inhibition in this way is governed by the respective concentrations of the substrate and the MAOI.

Harmaline is a central nervous system stimulant and a "reversible inhibitor of MAO-A (RIMA)." It being a reversible MAO-A inhibitor means that it competes with tyramine for binding to MAO-A, so foods containing some tyramine can be safely consumed (wine and aged cheese should probably be avoided for 12 hours prior to consuming harmaline containing plants). The reversibility means that, instead of binding permanently to MAO-A for weeks until the body replaces the MAO-A enzyme molecules, harmaline binds only transiently, so tyramine can be metabolized as well by competing with harmaline for the binding site on the enzyme. This means that the risk of a hypertensive crisis, a dangerous high blood pressure crisis from eating tyramine-rich foods such as cheese, is potentially lower with harmaline than with non-reversible MAOI's, especially after 24 hours following ingestion.

Even with the quick wikipedia searches I feel secure enough to say this:SWIY is better off abstaining from MDMA for the night. There is the potential for effects 24 hours later and that's enough to be cause for concern.

If SWIY feels so strongly about taking the MDMA that they are willing to knowingly risk their health, at the least find some sort of scientific evidence stating that the harmala alkaloids responsible for the monoamine oxidase inhibition would likely be out of one's system in a 24 hour time span.

[bignbrown]

well swim did find this:

Side Effects and Interactions:
Although pure harmala alkaloids have MAO inhibitor activity in animal experiments, adverse reactions or interactions in humans using passion flower have not been reported. Newer studies have shown that only trace amounts of the alkaloids are contained in the herb ( <0.1 ppm), and thus doses used clinically should not have MAO inhibitor activity.

[RaverHippie]

Well if SWIY feels confidant they could test that theory by eating a tyramine rich food and noting any adverse reactions. There's plenty of info on that scattered that.

[bignbrown]

Originally Posted by RaverHippie

Well if SWIY feels confidant they could test that theory by eating a tyramine rich food and noting any adverse reactions. There's plenty of info on that scattered that.

eaten cheese and no adverse reactions, Some other guy on another forum says that as its a reversible MAOI it should be fine, Swm's taking it slow anyway with one 100mg dose.

[Fantasian]

IMO passion flower unless taken in monumental dosages shouldnt exert a particularly strong MAOI effect so you should be fine, just dont do any Heroic MDMA dosing

[bignbrown]

cheers, just read up some more and it seems as its a reversible maoi, it leaves the body in 12 hours, most likely 6

[Jasim]

Swim has used kavalactones (with an MAO-B I) along with duloxetine and tramadol. Swiy should be fine depending on swiys dose of MDMA.

Psychedelics are so much more enjoyable at psycholytic and threshold psychedelic dosages.