Journal - Relapsed...Moved on past the 18 month mark of recovery...Now what?

[chillinwill]

So Red Rock has been hanging out with some old friends lately (it's always the people, places, and things) and one of their friends came over and Red Rock caught a few needles on him and this triggered him greatly. So being the addict that he is, he asked dude if he did heroin and he said yeah and he had some. He ended up having a couple grams on him and Red Rock bought some off him. Now being over 8 months clean, he thought he would be fine in this type of situation and not relapse. Well he has been holding back on not telling this community this because he feels really ashamed of himself as he knows several people have looked up to him on here and he is most ashamed with himself though. Red Rock ended up shooting over 0.6g of heroin just like it was back in his old days except now, he has the naltrexone Vivitrol shot in him which caused him to not feel a great high. It also caused him to puke and feel shitty and not even enjoy a high.

So basically Red Rock did all of this for no enjoyment. What a load of shit. Anyways, he doesn't really know where to go now. He can't tell his parents of basically any of his really good friends what happened because he with either get kicked out of his house or these friends basically will abanden him because they told him if he fucked up one more time, that they have had it with him. The only people he feels like he can trust are the people on here as this feels like home to him and he just kinda doesn't know where to turn now. Luckily he doesn't have to put up with the withdrawals and all of that shit since it was a one time mistake and nothing else has happened since then (been about a week now). He knows he shouldn't have been hanging out with those old friends but one of the people he was hanging out with was his ex-girlfriend and basically he just wanted to get with her since it's been a little while since he has fucked. A guy has guy needs you know. Well this girl and Red Rock used to do heroin together and Red ROck thought it would be alright to be hanging with her since she is on methadone and not using. Well she is fine but not her friends.

But in all honestly, Red Rock knows he shouldn't even hang out with that crowd anymore as it's not worth it if it's going to cause him to relapse. Red Rock has WAYYYY to much going for him to risk losing such as going back to school in a month, many more freedoms by living at home than when he first came home 8 months ago when he was homeless and his parents took him in when he had nowhere to go. He really wishes he could be honest with him but knows if he does, then he will be kicked out immediately and that they only places he could go live are old associates that are still doing heroin.

Anyways, Red Rock just wanted to get any feedback/helpful hints, pointers, etc. He would really appreciate any help people have at this

Reputation Comments on this post:

Don't tell anyone, don't reset your timer, and take it for the educational experience it was. Looking at it as a test, y...

[teddybearpicnics]

What is the naltrexalone shot? Never heard of this before.

Man, as long as you don't have the desire to do it again, Swim thinks it is alright. Everyone makes mistakes. Come on we are addicts, swiy went from a hellish lifestyle to being clean for 8 months. That's DAMN GOOD bro. Don't kick yourself around about it, but don't also just shrug it off. Take it as a lesson learned. Swim thinks that everyone needs this to happen because like swiy mentioned, it wasn't even worth it. So no when swiy is in another situation like that, it can just be turned down and swiy'll feel good about it instead of saying no and then thinking :hhh man i want it sooo bad:: Swim will type more tomorrow, but saw noone responded to this yet, so wanted to give you some words. Keep it real man. And like swim said, It's just a small bump in the road, swiy made it this far just keep going. Pretend you neve even did it and move one.
.teddy

Reputation Comments on this post:

good advise

[chillinwill]

The naltrexone shot is a once a month extended release naltrexone shot....He doesn't feel like typing a lot on Vivitrol right now but got this from Wiki...He also thanks you for your kind words as this has been troubling him ever since he relapsed

Depot injectable naltrexone (Vivitrol, formerly Vivitrex, but changed after a request by the FDA) was approved by the FDA on April 13, 2006 for the treatment of alcoholism. This version is made by Alkermes, and will be jointly marketed by Cephalon, Inc.. The medication is administered by intra-muscular injection and lasts for up to 30 days. Clinical trials for this medication were done with a focus on alcohol, presumably due to the larger number of alcoholics that it could be used to treat; however, Alkermes was asked to run a safety study for the off-label use of the injection for opiate addicts. This was found to be a successful use of the medication in patients who were single drug abusers, though multi-drug abusers would generally decrease their opiate use and increase their use of other drugs (i.e. cocaine) while on the injection. Other studies, however, provide preliminary evidence that naltrexone with the right protocol can be effective in treating cocaine addiction.[4]

[RaverHippie]

I have no raver friends that have similar stories to Red Rock's but I can say that He's kicked himself around enough for this is plain to see. Tell him to start up a new count. The past is behind him. He's been clean for a week and has a great future to look forward to. It's really hard to imagine that his family wouldn't be supportive since he's behaved so well for such a long time. I agree that telling someone would probably help with things just to discuss it face to face

[fiveleggedrat]

Swim should be fucking proud they made it 8 months. Swim can't even stop smoking marijuana for 2 days, much less imagine quitting opioids back when they were fun.

Swiy has done well, and Swiy knows what they need to do; avoid the old situations. Avoid all the triggers.

[rokman nash]

Know one in your personal circle needs to know, you got it off your chest here. Forget the new count(you might fuck up in front of the wrong person)and take it as a lesson learned.Best of luck bro.



ROC
do the day or the day will do you

[Dickon]

Red Rock,

You are at a fork in the road here. We were talking in a relapse prevention group about the difference between a lapse and a relapse. It seems you have lapsed, but not relapsed. Yes I come from a 12-step background, in which a glass of wine would be called a relapse, but maybe this all or nothing distinction is counterproductive. The naltrexone implant will in effect protect you from the positive euphoric effects of opiates, which will keep you safe on one level. When it is time for your next shot, I strongly suggest you take it, assuming you're not having serious negative effects.

I can speak as someone who has relapsed (on something non-drug related probably) after 23 months and 17 months. Both times in my case it was a deliberate decision, that germinated in my head for quite some time. I didn't fare too well after these relapses, ending up with (cake) habits both times. I know NA literature sees relapse as a double-edged sword. I agree, it can be both a destructive beginning of a bad relapse, or it can be a wake-up call.

You are a week away, and in the words of the cliche "you have choices today". It's going to be a big sting to your self-esteem certainly in the short term, but if you can grab back hold of that roller-coaster that is life without drugs you might find yourself stronger for it. As I'm thinking in little more than cliches today how about "what doesn't kill us makes us stronger".

You've always been a source of encouragement, and a good soul on here, if there's anything I can do in my small way, just ask. I really want to give you a clip around the ear for being a silly boy, and a hug for encouragement because it's so easily done. Don't beat yourself up, and perhaps consider looking up some sports psychology on what to do if you've lost a point or two at say tennis.

And here is one dumb thought. If you didn't enjoy the experience, surely it would make no sense to do it again. If only addiction worked like that! lol.

Best wishes, kind thoughts, hugs, and encouragement

Dickon

Reputation Comments on this post:

thanks dickon for your always wonderous ways of putting words and saying things....you have helped me out a lot here

[Pondlife]

The fact that you are beating yourself up so much over this one incident shows how much staying clean means to you. You saw how a relapse could throw away all your hard work and jeopardise your relationship with family and friends.

From where I am standing, I don't think that any harm was done. You didn't get back into using, and indeed you didn't even have an enjoyable experience. You also saw the start of the road back to addiction, and didn't like what you saw. I think you have learned a lot from this little experience.

This is all potentially positive, and I don't think there is any reason to start counting from zero again or anything like that.

[dyingtomorrow]

SWIM is very sorry to hear all the distress it is causing Red Rock. He understands how RR must feel about it, but from a third party perspective, SWIM has to say he strongly gets the impression that everything will be okay for RR despite this small road bump. Possibly even better.

Had RR enjoyed it, then perhaps it would have been a problem, but from both the fact that RR did not get any pleasure from it, and how horrible he seems to have felt afterwards, SWIM actually believes this may be a positive experience for RR because of the profound negative association with the act it created.

If RR can get over the self disappointment and see this for the great conscious and subconscious reinforcement of the decision Red Rock made to stay away from heroin because of the negative impact it had on his life, then Red Rock can grow from it and hopefully feel even more aversion and less residual draw towards the drug.

Don't beat Red Rock up, take the bad and see it for the educational experience it really was in actuality, and don't reset RR's timer like rokman said - SWIM wishes Red Rock the best.

Reputation Comments on this post:

thanks for your support....it meant a lot what you had to say

[AvidFan]

Patient X can't really add to the great stuff already said, but offers his best wishes and support.

[Spare Chaynge]

You are fine buddy. Just dont do it again. And if you start thinking you can do it again and get away with it get on this forum and we can talk about it...


Remember abandon those aa philsophys... you are not powerless,, you have control do not do it again! or you will fuck your life up.

(When swim says abandon aa swim means that according to aa you are powerless as of now and you are in that fucked stage) bull shit... Its straight up all about how much you want to keep your life...

What you should look into is staying away from chics with needles (way to hot). And get some things going in your life besides what you have now...extra hobby's and extra job, Swims pretty sure your starting school very soon right?

[beentheredonethatagain]

I know a lot about addiction and recovery, and relapse is part of recovery. Addicts do relapse, but they can recover if they have the capacity to be honest. Honest with yourself.

As others have stated , you already have been honest with yourself, you don't have to tell anyone else.

Have you been to N/A ? I have been to several of those meetings and they are usallly helpful.

Just take it one day at a time, or one hour at a time. Peace

[yaba]

If its a one off mistake, then leave it with that...
RR wont get addicted after the first mistake.. The second, third, fourth, etc.. Will get you addicted again.

Good luck !!

[chillinwill]

So Red Rock was just sitting down and reading all of these posts on this thread and is grateful for all the help and support he has gotten on this matter. He has relapsed many times in the past but has never even come close to achieving this length of amount of sobriety from his drug of choice. He almost started to cry thinking about all the pain and agony that heroin has caused him and he vows never to let that beast get a hold of him again.

He has found now that he is craving opiates in general since his last use like as if he had just finished the withdrawals and is going through all of that mental anguish and bullshit. He knows how easily it would be to give in to the monster but is typing this instead and just getting his thoughts out there. So he has decided not to let this small little lapse in judgement effect his whole sobriety and he is going to continue to say that he has 8 months clean with one little small bump on the road. He cannot afford to give in to the monster of heroin and let that take a hold of him again.

As for going to AA/NA, yes Red Rock has been to probably over a thousand meetings in total with both groups (mainly NA) and has been through 7 treatment centers/rehabs. He has a few discrepancies with these programs and there believes and thought he had found a way that works for him (well he still believes it works for him) that doesn't involve all of AA/NA principals. He does like the idea of taking it one day at a time though as that is really all he can do or else the whole concept seems very overwhelming and besides, why not enjoy today instead of worrying what happened yesterday or what will happen tomorrow? He believes this forum is his way of staying clean and it has helped tremendously in the past and still continues to help him today. Red Rock knows he isn't powerless to addiction anymore (unlike what NA/AA what him to believe) as he went 8 months without opiates and those programs and can do that again (hopefully for the rest of his life). Well he is just sort of rambling on now but more helpful pointers/idea/hints/etc are welcome.

[teddybearpicnics]

RR, there are quite a few of us who are always there to help any way we can. There are always going to be bumps in the road in all different aspects of life, just because RR ::theoretically:: got his heart broken after a long relationship, doesn't mean that his chances of love are forever doomed. There are a couple different ways that RR and all of us can put things into perspective. Just stay positive about yourself, and positive about your desire to stay off the opiates, and everything should work itself out. Don't beat yourself up too much over it because that will just lead swiy down a road of depression and self-medicating. ::which is definitly what swiy doesn't want:: Swim can speak from experience from that because once you get yourself down, all those great walls that you built up pushing the opiates out of your life, seem to slowly start coming back down, and it's almost as if you are taking them down, not the drug. You'll talk yourself back into saying oh it's okay to screw up here and there. Now if swiyou can just jump over the wall for a quick trip to the darkside, then proceed with major caution...as the wall might have grown a few layers higher when swiy comes back. It doesn't seem as if that is the case for swiy...and that is a good thing. Swim is always thinking about just "occasionally" taking a little taste. He knows it is the complete wrong way to think, but he just can't help it...he's sure that this must be a widespread thought for anyone in these shoes. Also remember that if your will power is not 100% improved from the junkie swiy once was, then there's a good chance that it's going to be a repeat of what actually caused the problem in the first place. None of us wanted to get this way, it's because we didn't know when to say no, and all of a sudden it was too late.

So, with that said...we all have tons of faith in RR, swim knows he speaks for all of us swimmers when he says that eight months is quite an achievement, with only one slip up. Just keep it going brothaman.

As for the N.A. aspect of it all. Everyone is different, but swim finds that every time he goes to a meeting and listens to all the people boo hoo about how bad they want to use then listen to everyone baby everyone along the way is a crock of shit. The one day at a time issue is fine by swim, but he totally agrees with you about enjoying the day, love the life you live, don't constantly think of yourself as a helpless addict who must surrender themselves...NO! Stand up for yourself and believe that you are not helpless to this drug, you are better than it, and although you are living every day one day at a time, you are way more than helpless, and you can do anything you want to by the will of your own. That's what swim loves about this forum, you don't need to be there at a specific time, you don't need to follow any rules, you dont need to shame yourself by always being a helpless addict. YOU are YOU, and that's it. You make the choices, you reap the outcome.

Anyway, swim has to get ready to go to work. Just stay strong and if RR ever needs something...PM and we can talk on a more personal level.

.teddy

[rokman nash]

RR, My friend Dave could never claim to have been in your shoes. He went from a huge pill habit' and then started supplementing that with h(snorted/smoked). the h was supposed to replace the pills,but as usual it didn't happen. So now he's taking vics,oxys and 1/2 bag (g) a day he woke up just like you did eight months ago and he's off the junk for now. Does he want to get high? yes of course he does. but knows like you I MIGHT be allowed one misstep.but any more than that and its game over.
I hope you can fight your demon cause it sounds like you could lose everything(thats my exact situation I use I lose it all).

Fight the fight you did it for eight months and have helped countless people.you can do it.

ROC
do the day or the day will do you

[Richard_smoker]

red rock, i personally think that what you did is not so bad.

as you basically said in your original post, it can be a big crap-shoot when the addict exposes himself to situations like those.

personally, i wouldn't consider this a true 'relapse' simply because you were covered by the nalrexone. i know you've said before that without the shot, you found that it was basically impossible to prevent yourself for going back to the H.

please make sure you keep getting the shot as prescribed. as long as you do that, i think you're fine. -DICK

[chillinwill]

Just an update here...Red Rock has been craving opiates wayyy more than he had been before his little one lapse in judgement and he knows he cannot use anymore....So three ways he has been trying to handle these cravings have been running several miles a day (up to 5-6 miles), smoking cigarettes like there is no tomorrow, and the past 2 days, Red Rock has been drinking a lot. Now he normally doesn't drink like this unless there is a party or something of that nature but he has found that by getting drunk, that this helps him with the cravings. In his mind, this is better than going out and copping and shooting heroin which will definitely restart the old addictioin cycle again.

The only thing he is worried about is his drinking amount as he can very easily down around 9-10 shots in 1.5-2 hour timespan and still not be all that drunk. He has tolerance issues with alcohol from back when he was in college. What are some other coping mechanicsms that people use on here when they have cravings. I know there are several threads on this but since this is kinda Red Rock's own personal thread on his opiate addiction/recovery, he wants to get these ideas on here. Also, how do people cope in stressful situations. Most everyone knows that the holidays can be stressful times and Red Rock just wants to assure himself that he has all the available tools in order to prevent himself from going back to the big H.

[msmogadon]

Its true. The small slip up that RedRock had was only a matter of hours compared to a whole 8 months of determination. The more RedRock ponders over this the worse he's gonna feel so just get him to put it to bed and try and use it to imform future times of tempation.

The Naltrexone shot is pure protection, made exactly for this situation. If Redrock had not been on the shot the cravings may have been enough to completely fuck with his mind. SWIM knows someone that uses occasionaly while on Naltrexone and he has managed not to fall back into his old ways by sticking with the blocker.

Yea totally don't give Redrock a hard time. It sounds like he's learned a lesson already
Take it easy x

[Richard_smoker]

i don't think alcohol is going to give you much relief--seeing as how naltrexone is used to reduce the gratification from alcohol.

i think what you need is just some time to pass by. a couple more days will suddenly be 2 months. there's a tendency to view the world from a distorted viewpoint in this situation. like one of those peepholes where everything close to you is HUGE and the background looks like it's a mile away. the immediate future is blown way out of proportion, imo.

i'd probably just keep trying shots for the next couple of days and then see how you feel monday...my guess is that you'll feel much less wired or on-edge. -DICK

[rokman nash]

way back 20 days ago, just to get some rest I was drinking 2 water glasses full of vodka 10-20 ounces. didn't help me sleep but certainly made me forget my monkey for a while.Then felt like shit for 8-10 hrs after(but would have anyway). best of luck,think good thoughts


ROC
do the day or the day will do you

[moda00]

Red Rock,
Swim has been in a very similar place. For her, she was almost glad it happened, as each of the several times she "lapsed" taught her something. It can be helpful to have a lapse if it helps to ingrain certain things- a reminder that one cannot hang out with certain people, the reintegration of why one stopped using and the negative feelings that come after using, learning that heroin is no longer a part of one's life.. the important thing is that the lapse does not cause any permanent harm to one's health and recovery, and that one is able to learn and grow and change as a result. It sounds like the lapse did just that- of course swiy feels awful about it, and it may be a bit rough with cravings for a couple weeks, but if swiy can make it through, which I know he can and will, it will strengthen his recovery. It's all part of the process.

Swim herself has had periods of sobriety and then relapsed into active addiction, but once she got some long term sobriety going, and felt secure in her recovery, the several lapses she had didn't feel like she had given up her recovery and had to start all over- it just felt like part of the journey. Have faith in yourself, that after coming this far, you do have the tools, resources, and abilities to maintain recovery- pick yourself up and keep on truckin' This is a great time to think about how far swiy has come, and recommit swiyself to the basics- avoiding the people/places/things, making sure there are positive people and activities to spend swiy's time, checking in with personal goals, etc.

Swim also found in those cases, maybe two or three times over about three years, that she couldn't tell certain people- now, addiction and secrecy can be problematic, but for swim, she knew that if she approached it a certain way, it could be learned from without causing any huge problems and seamlessly integrated into her recovery journey- but after all she put her folks through, for them to find out would needlessly worry them and also make it harder for her to continue repairing the relationship. She found the most important part was to be honest with herself and her recovery support (in her case, an individual therapist/addiction counselor). If swiy has a therapist, I think it would be worth talking about it, or as swiy says, if this is his main recovery support, then coming here for feedback and being honest is a big step. I think in some cases we can be in denial and then secrecy only furthers our addictions, but in swiy's case, he is well into recovery, and I trust that he is rational and clear-headed enough to evaluate the pros and cons. As in swim's case, the negative impacts of telling certain people may outweigh the positives of honesty and actually be detrimental to the process of reintegrating and bouncing back. So, I think as long as swiy is being honest with himself and his recovery support, it makes a lot of sense to not share this with the parents.

Now, if this were to be ongoing, or cause additional problems, I think swiy would be obligated to tell them and get that support to protect them and himself, but since this was a one time lapse and is being dealt with, it is quite different from a situation in which an actual relapse to active addiction has occurred. Swim herself found that her few little lapses were part of her journey, and that she was able to open up to her parents and be honest about that process with them.. but it came after giving herself some time to integrate and re-stabilize, and after more time of rebuilding her relationship with them as well. In her case, it was better to address the lapse within herself and with her recovery support, and then bring that honesty to the table later on down the line with her family. Swiy may find he wants to discuss it with them eventually, but swiy sees nothing wrong with not doing so now. However, if swiy is close to his parents, lives with them, etc. and feels he may need some extra support and that they could offer it, he may consider bringing up that he is craving, or having a rough week- asking for that added support without saying exactly why- but this depends a lot on the relationship and whether that would be helpful. Something to think about though- same with non-using friends- one can ask for additional support without necessarily admitting to having used as the trigger, and hopefully one can ask for this support when needed regardless of the trigger or situation, as we all have cravings on occasion.

Again, please know that this is a normal part of the journey, and take it as something to learn from and grow from- it is not a failure on swiy's part or a reason to feel like swiy is "back at square one." Think of this as one step backwards which can be used to take two steps forward and come out ahead! Please do keep us posted, and surround swiyself with support in is day to day life, especially over the next few days and weeks. Also, if swiy hasn't done so, this may be a time to initiate another cleaning of the social network- if old friends don't know, let them know that swiy is trying to stay clean and doesn't want them to contact him, if swiy got this individual's phone number, delete it, etc. You know the drill- just do what it takes to give swiy the advantage and make it easier not to continue in a dangerous direction.
-----------------------------------------------------
Just saw swiy's update:

As others have said, please try to avoid the alcohol if possible- that is risky in many ways. If he does decide to drink, please do so with non-using friends, so the dis inhibition doesn't result in an opiate relapse, which would be dangerous both to swiy's recovery/addiction, and also dangerous because of the combination of alcohol and opiates. But, when experiencing cravings, it is best to learn to handle them without seeking intoxication- that is the addict's default, of course, but it feels so much better to find other ways, and is much more helpful in the recovery process.

Swim strongly encourages RR to try some exercise- simple advice, but extremely effective for boosting natural serotonin, endorphins, etc. and reducing cravings and stress. It can be tough to motivate oneself to start, but once swiy gets out there and does a workout, you will be so glad you did. Swim would also advise other activities which make swiy feel good and help with mind/body integration- has swiy ever gotten a professional massage, or tried a yoga class? These things in and of themselves can be a wonderful help, and the rush of trying something new produces changes in neurotransmitters and brain chemicals in a positive way associated with novelty.

Swim also finds that journaling, blogging, etc. can help- even posting here on the forum, both about your own thoughts/struggles, and also helping others in recovery can be a great tool.. to help others stay sober can boost one's own drive to stay sober, and keep swiy in tune with the reasons he chose to stop doing dope and how far he has come.

Another tool, which many associate with AA/NA but really is at the root of mindfulness in general, is to approach things in the moment- day at a time, or even a minute at a time- focus on staying clean and finding thins to occupy the body and mind in the here and now, don't worry about staying clean or using tomorrow or forevermore- just focus on the present. And like I said before- without necessarily going into details on swiy's lapse, it can be very helpful to surround swiyself with family and friends and ask for extra support when needed, so please reach out and ask for that support.

Reputation Comments on this post:

thanks for your support and kind words!

[Robsa]

Originally Posted by moda00

Moda said: Stuff.

Brilliant advice. Could not say it better myself. Don't let Red Rock beat himself up for using. Tell him to Learn from it. And it is very very normal to start to crave using again - this is EXACTLY how addiction works. Red Rock needs to think about WHY they used again. OK, its probably rather obvious - hanging with people they know they shouldn't be. WHY did they do that then, hmmmn? That little voice in their head?

Listen to Moda I say!

[chillinwill]

Man Red Rock was looking back at this thread which isn't too old and was amazed at how he has grown. This includes both the positives and the negatives of what has transpired over the past couple of months and what he has gotten out of the negative happenings in his life.

So Red Rock is been in school now three weeks and getting ready to start on his fourth and the workload has picked up some but he is still finding it fairly easy. In the past, he was able to make straight A's without ever really having to study. Now he has to put some effort into it but finds himself very complacent. He is striving to make 100's on every assignment and feels really proud when he does a good job on his work. He thinks that since he is paying for school this time, that he should put forth his best effort in every assignment.

On another note though, Red Rock's drinking completely took off for a few days. He has no idea how that shit happened and was only having 3-4 drinks for about 5 days straight but he could start to feel psychologically the idea that he needed to go get a couple of drinks each day. Today was his first day without drinking and all is back to normal and nothing bad came out of the drinking. He just now has to be more careful in terms of that because since opiates and alcohol work on basically the same receptor sites, he figures that this little escapade of drinking had something to do with heroin cravings.

Other than those couple of days, Red Rock's life is very fucking sweet right now. He is going to start looking into getting a part time job along with being in school full time so he can be busier than he has been although school has definitely occupied a lot of his time lately. Red Rock hopes everyone else is still fighting the battle and doing well!

[Richard_smoker]

^^^WOW! Moda, that is one of the most insightful readings i've been exposed to in a LONG TIME!

there's SO much truth in what you said about not needing to tell everyone (family, loved ones) EVERY SINGLE TIME you did something that they might not (ever) understand...that you didn't want to put them through needless worry, etc.

that is just a great post. thanks. -DICK