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Opiate addiction Support for coping with Opiate addiction and Opiate addiction treatment.

 
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  #1  
Old 17-12-2008, 14:45
dyingtomorrow dyingtomorrow is offline
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Heroin to Suboxone: Do your last shot at night!

SWIM alternates between heroin and suboxone a lot, and has noticed a couple things and wants to see if anyone else had similar experiences.

SWIM found that the best way to switch was to always do his last shot at night, and then wait until he started jonesing in the morning (but not necessarily so long as to be in withdrawals) to take the suboxone. When he would do this it would almost always go okay, no pain, aside from severe depression for not having heroin.

Every time SWIM has done his last shot during the day and waits out the 12-18 hours until night, it is always HORRIBLE. Usually this entails minor withdrawals for 4 hours, and severe god-fucking-awful migraines for another 6 hours after that. Sometimes SWIM has noticed he can save a little heroin and wait a couple hours after his suboxone dose and shoot it, and it won't get him high, but it will take all the pain away at least, and let him survive fine until the next day/dose, at which point there is no problem.

SWIM also noticed one other thing: every time he has taken suboxone and it didn't make him feel fully better, in other words, he got the withdrawals and severe migraines; if he would try and take more suboxone after a couple hours it would make him feel even worse, or at least equally bad, no matter how much more is taken.

SWIM was wondering if maybe once you go into full withdrawals on suboxone, and then take it, if you will still have some residual withdrawals and pain FROM having gone into it in the first place. SWIM notices when he does his last shot at night, and the 12 hours passes while he is asleep and is just antsy and wanting heroin bad in the morning (but not in withdrawal) that the transition has always been painless.

Anyone else have similar experiences or can make sense of this?

P.S. This post arises from SWIM having waited out 14 hours over night, and was about to take his suboxone. Then cooked up some cottons and heroin residue and had a pretty nice shot. Then sat there looking at the 2, knowing that doing the heroin would feel good for a short time and result in 24 hours of hell - and did the heroin anyways and is sitting here feeling like drills are drilling into his face.

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good advice,thanks for sharing
Please refrain from using the term SWIM
  #2  
Old 18-12-2008, 03:31
rokman nash rokman nash is offline
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Re: Heroin to Suboxone: Do your last shot at night!

thanks for the words in my thread, You'll know when your ready to kick,till then be carefull bro.

ROC
do the day or the day will do you
  #3  
Old 22-12-2008, 01:11
JoyfulHagion JoyfulHagion is offline
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Re: Heroin to Suboxone: Do your last shot at night!

An IMPORTANT NOTE: Even though with the proper planning an individual can indeed get high on alternate opiods "in between" bouts of suboxone, switching back from the other opiod to suboxone needs to be done in a specific fashion. IT IS NOT ADVISED TO USE HEROIN OR OTHER FULL-AGONIST OPIODS FOR MORE THAN ONE DAY (TWO AT THE VERY MAXIMUM) WHILE ON SUBOXONE. If one uses for only one day, one can pick right back up again the next day with their suboxone regiment. If one uses for MORE THAN A DAY OR TWO, THE USER MUST WAIT UNTIL FEELING THE FIRST BITS OF PHYSICAL OPIOD WITHDRAWAL BEFORE REDOSING WITH THE SUBOXONE. To not do this results in a phenomenon known as "precipitated withdrawals." Precipitated withdrawals occur when one has been using alternate opiods long enough for all suboxone to leave one's system, and then redosing the suboxone without waiting to feel withdrawal. This is a result of the high-affinity of the suboxone literally 'kicking out' the other opiod. Before the full-effects of the suboxone are felt, one will experience withdrawal as the body is robbed of the active opiod.
  #4  
Old 15-05-2009, 10:58
zarlmnop zarlmnop is offline
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Re: Heroin to Suboxone: Do your last shot at night!

I am so relieved to find that I am not the only person out here who is struggling with on again off again opiate/suboxone use. Suboxone actually works really well for me, once I am on it and at a stable dose. However, where I live, it is not available, (well it is, but there isabout a 6-12 month wait list) So, right now, I am at a very low dose. I was back home awhile ago, saw my doctor and got a prescription. So now the problem is -- chipping and going through crazy routine of trying to time it out so that the one substance does not overlap with the other. Excuse me for being vague. I am completely new at this, just read the rules and am at a loss of how to explain this in detail without breaking any rules. It is just crazy, getting sick on again and off again. Must end this insanity.

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remember, no self incrimination
interesting to know how it is in Greece; plenty of others here in same predicament, use the search to find more info - also it is very important to use "SWIM" (Someone Who Isn't Me) instead of "Me" or "I" - please remember
  #5  
Old 15-05-2009, 11:03
Spucky Spucky is offline
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AW: Heroin to Suboxone: Do your last shot at night!

If swiny write "Swim. is doing" than swiny can write, swim guess, nearly everything!

Why swiny is not using someone he can trust to control the Intake of the Substitut?

Last edited by Spucky; 15-05-2009 at 12:32.
  #6  
Old 16-05-2009, 13:42
Benniboi Benniboi is offline
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Re: Heroin to Suboxone: Do your last shot at night!

SWIM found that if he was going to be using gear for more than a few days at a time, a small dose of subutex, i.e. 1ml- taken daily on top of using, would allow the buprenorphine to stay in his system and make the switchover less painfull. swim also believes doing this can also help to stop full agonist tolerence building- and has seen some research information to corroborate this theory.

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interesting to know - maybe you could post such research for us to see in the future
  #7  
Old 16-05-2009, 18:16
dyingtomorrow dyingtomorrow is offline
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Re: Heroin to Suboxone: Do your last shot at night!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benniboi View Post
SWIM found that if he was going to be using gear for more than a few days at a time, a small dose of subutex, i.e. 1ml- taken daily on top of using, would allow the buprenorphine to stay in his system and make the switchover less painfull. swim also believes doing this can also help to stop full agonist tolerence building- and has seen some research information to corroborate this theory.
SWIM has found much the same, and as you say, "small dose" is key SWIM believes.
  #8  
Old 17-05-2009, 07:25
zarlmnop zarlmnop is offline
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Re: Heroin to Suboxone: Do your last shot at night!

yes, that is the other benefit, it would stop a full blown habit.
  #9  
Old 17-05-2009, 08:31
Spucky Spucky is offline
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AW: Re: Heroin to Suboxone: Do your last shot at night!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benniboi View Post
SWIM found that if he was going to be using gear for more than a few days at a time, a small dose of subutex, i.e. 1ml- taken daily on top of using, would allow the buprenorphine to stay in his system and make the switchover less painfull. swim also believes doing this can also help to stop full agonist tolerence building- and has seen some research information to corroborate this theory.
Swim done that 2 Years,
but suddenly it become impossible!
Until now he don`t know exactly whats happen to him.
Other People reported the same effect!
We guess that something inside the Receptor-Dynamic changed!

Buprenorphin is not as much discovered as we wish!
  #10  
Old 17-05-2009, 09:21
zarlmnop zarlmnop is offline
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Re: Heroin to Suboxone: Do your last shot at night!

could you explain that in a little more detail spucky? what exactly did not work after 2 years????

zarlmnop added 1 Minutes and 6 Seconds later...

Oh and, the brain will grow extra receptor sites to deal with an excess of the drug, I wonder if that is what happend to you?

Last edited by zarlmnop; 17-05-2009 at 09:21. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #11  
Old 17-05-2009, 09:33
Spucky Spucky is offline
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AW: Re: Heroin to Suboxone: Do your last shot at night!

Quote:
Originally Posted by zarlmnop View Post
could you explain that in a little more detail spucky? what exactly did not work after 2 years????

zarlmnop added 1 Minutes and 6 Seconds later...

Oh and, the brain will grow extra receptor sites to deal with an excess of the drug, I wonder if that is what happend to you?
Many People think it that Way like swibenniboi,
so they use Bupre. and Heroin together.
But after a Time, in swims case two Years,
it becomes impossible to reduce Subutex for a tiny Heroin-Party
and then switch back to full dose (14mg) Subutex.
Even he wait 2 Days/ more than 40 Hours (for Bupre. intake)
but still get a full Rapid-Withdrawal for ca. 10 Hours.

We guess/ but are not sure this is a protective mechanism/ or misinterpretation of the Receptors!

Last edited by Spucky; 17-05-2009 at 09:40.
  #12  
Old 17-05-2009, 09:48
zarlmnop zarlmnop is offline
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Re: Heroin to Suboxone: Do your last shot at night!

Well, what I am wondering now is, if you are only taking 2 mg/day if that would still happen- SWim has been doing just that off and on, mainly on for about 2 years now. Swim is scared!
  #13  
Old 17-05-2009, 10:12
Spucky Spucky is offline
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AW: Re: Heroin to Suboxone: Do your last shot at night!

Quote:
Originally Posted by zarlmnop View Post
Well, what I am wondering now is, if you are only taking 2 mg/day if that would still happen-
SWim has been doing just that off and on, mainly on for about 2 years now. Swim is scared!
We think it is a matter of how long People using Bupre.
and how high the daily Dose is.

Also we, swim and his Friends, try to go slowly back to Bupre.
like step by step, this sometimes work and sometimes not.

Big Problem is that there is no scientific study about that symptome.

Ps. not all People showed this Problem.
  #14  
Old 14-03-2012, 05:45
Sargent Leper Sargent Leper is offline
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Re: Heroin to Suboxone: Do your last shot at night!

I basically do it the same way as well. I figure, you might as well start getting sick while your asleep rather than waiting around, antsy, watching the clock and feeling the slow transision into hell.
I also agree with the fact that once you've dosed and go into withdrawls more subs don't work. I have also on occasion felt worse after taking more.
I don't know if you smoke or shoot but the nice thing about shooting and keeping my habit down (I rarely go on longer than a week run now a days) is that I can wait up to 24 hours sometimes and then dose.
I just got the new Suboxone strips they have out now and they are awesome. They desolve in like 4 minutes and they significantly more effective.
If I anticipate my kick is going to be an easy one, sometimes I'll just do a rinse or two throughout the day to get me through, then take a Klonapin and dose 2 8mg strips and sleep through the whole thing. This obviously wouldn't work if youd been using for a while and were super strung. I don't know about you, but the kicks are the worst for me. If those happen sleeping is not an option no matter what I take.
Anyway good luck
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Old 19-03-2012, 00:34
smackaroni smackaroni is offline
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Re: Heroin to Suboxone: Do your last shot at night!

I, like the Sargent, am not a frequenter of heroin (like I want to be) and am on Suboxone most days. When I am able to get the heroin, I usually can use a maximum of four days (usually more like two) and I usually make sure to do all the heroin (cottons and everything) on a day when I know I'll be loaded high all day until I fall asleep. Then that 10-12 hour sleep period combined with the whole day I was sufficiently high enough and not using heroin is usually enough time for me to take a Suboxone dose right when I wake up. Although, unlike most people, I normally shoot Suboxone, I have learned to take it as prescribed for the first dose, because when I shoot it up after prolonged shooting of heroin, it gives me this godawful feeling (I don't want to call in withdrawal) for five or so minutes. Note also that my daily dose of Suboxone on average is 4 mg or less (injected) so I usually only have to wait 18-24 hours of being off it to slam some H and get good (not maximum) effects. Stay high for life, that's my mission.
  #16  
Old 22-11-2012, 22:46
theLdragon theLdragon is offline
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Re: Heroin to Suboxone: Do your last shot at night!

I agree with smackaroni. Take it in the evening but make sure your asleep before the w/d prevents you from doing so. I usually do my last shot at 4pm. I make it a smaller one than usual and keep some left over (you'll see why later). I sleep at 10pm and just try and stay asleep for as long as possible. Wake up at 10am your 18hours in. Your feeling shitty. Takin the subs now is probably safe, but if you can stick it out for 6 more your golden. Have some advil and take a bath.

The extra dope is for a) if you can't fall asleep at 10pm, take it. This will make the next day harder, but its much better than lying awake all night feelin w/d slowly creepin up. And b) take it an hour or so after your first bupe. This will get rid of all the residual w/d. You need a lot of control with this method though. Try your best not to take it before you sleep unless you really need to. And don't take it when you wake up or your just gonna have to start all over again with your game plan up in smoke.
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Old 27-11-2012, 08:08
LexMonkey0311 LexMonkey0311 is offline
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Re: Heroin to Suboxone: Do your last shot at night!

I am glad you posted this, because my monkey was just sitting here pondering whether or not to do this last bag tonight, or to wait until the morning. Monkey intends to get back on suboxone tomorrow after a 3 week relapse. This is the first time monkey has ever relapsed after 5 years clean from heroin, thanks to monkey's lovely insurance company not filling monkey's suboxone Rx. What was supposed to be 3 days to make the suboxone monkey already had last until monkey could fill the Rx, turned into 3 weeks and an empty bank account Monkey is very upset with himself. Monkey is also very scared of what tomorrow is going to be like. It's been a very long time since Monkey had to go through withdrawal. Monkey hopes that keeping busy tomorrow will help. Now Monkey is just sitting here debating whether it will be better to do that last bag and sleep well tonight, or to wait until the morning. Tonight is probably better, because by tomorrow night, Monkey can start back on Suboxones. Monkey also hopes to try doing a quick taper off of the suboxone now that it is fully out of Monkey's system, because of being tired of being a slave to this medication and Monkey's suboxone dr. Tired of being treated like being on parole or probation when seeing Dr by choice! Anyone know where I can find a link related to a quick taper off of suboxone after opiate use?

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