Heroin to Suboxone: Do your last shot at night!

[dyingtomorrow]

SWIM alternates between heroin and suboxone a lot, and has noticed a couple things and wants to see if anyone else had similar experiences.

SWIM found that the best way to switch was to always do his last shot at night, and then wait until he started jonesing in the morning (but not necessarily so long as to be in withdrawals) to take the suboxone. When he would do this it would almost always go okay, no pain, aside from severe depression for not having heroin.

Every time SWIM has done his last shot during the day and waits out the 12-18 hours until night, it is always HORRIBLE. Usually this entails minor withdrawals for 4 hours, and severe god-fucking-awful migraines for another 6 hours after that. Sometimes SWIM has noticed he can save a little heroin and wait a couple hours after his suboxone dose and shoot it, and it won't get him high, but it will take all the pain away at least, and let him survive fine until the next day/dose, at which point there is no problem.

SWIM also noticed one other thing: every time he has taken suboxone and it didn't make him feel fully better, in other words, he got the withdrawals and severe migraines; if he would try and take more suboxone after a couple hours it would make him feel even worse, or at least equally bad, no matter how much more is taken.

SWIM was wondering if maybe once you go into full withdrawals on suboxone, and then take it, if you will still have some residual withdrawals and pain FROM having gone into it in the first place. SWIM notices when he does his last shot at night, and the 12 hours passes while he is asleep and is just antsy and wanting heroin bad in the morning (but not in withdrawal) that the transition has always been painless.

Anyone else have similar experiences or can make sense of this?

P.S. This post arises from SWIM having waited out 14 hours over night, and was about to take his suboxone. Then cooked up some cottons and heroin residue and had a pretty nice shot. Then sat there looking at the 2, knowing that doing the heroin would feel good for a short time and result in 24 hours of hell - and did the heroin anyways and is sitting here feeling like drills are drilling into his face.

[rokman nash]

thanks for the words in my thread, You'll know when your ready to kick,till then be carefull bro.

ROC
do the day or the day will do you

[JoyfulHagion]

An IMPORTANT NOTE: Even though with the proper planning an individual can indeed get high on alternate opiods "in between" bouts of suboxone, switching back from the other opiod to suboxone needs to be done in a specific fashion. IT IS NOT ADVISED TO USE HEROIN OR OTHER FULL-AGONIST OPIODS FOR MORE THAN ONE DAY (TWO AT THE VERY MAXIMUM) WHILE ON SUBOXONE. If one uses for only one day, one can pick right back up again the next day with their suboxone regiment. If one uses for MORE THAN A DAY OR TWO, THE USER MUST WAIT UNTIL FEELING THE FIRST BITS OF PHYSICAL OPIOD WITHDRAWAL BEFORE REDOSING WITH THE SUBOXONE. To not do this results in a phenomenon known as "precipitated withdrawals." Precipitated withdrawals occur when one has been using alternate opiods long enough for all suboxone to leave one's system, and then redosing the suboxone without waiting to feel withdrawal. This is a result of the high-affinity of the suboxone literally 'kicking out' the other opiod. Before the full-effects of the suboxone are felt, one will experience withdrawal as the body is robbed of the active opiod.

[zarlmnop]

I am so relieved to find that I am not the only person out here who is struggling with on again off again opiate/suboxone use. Suboxone actually works really well for me, once I am on it and at a stable dose. However, where I live, it is not available, (well it is, but there isabout a 6-12 month wait list) So, right now, I am at a very low dose. I was back home awhile ago, saw my doctor and got a prescription. So now the problem is -- chipping and going through crazy routine of trying to time it out so that the one substance does not overlap with the other. Excuse me for being vague. I am completely new at this, just read the rules and am at a loss of how to explain this in detail without breaking any rules. It is just crazy, getting sick on again and off again. Must end this insanity.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	remember, no self incrimination
	interesting to know how it is in Greece; plenty of others here in same predicament, use the search to find more info - a...

[Spucky]

If swiny write "Swim. is doing" than swiny can write, swim guess, nearly everything!

Why swiny is not using someone he can trust to control the Intake of the Substitut?

[Benniboi]

SWIM found that if he was going to be using gear for more than a few days at a time, a small dose of subutex, i.e. 1ml- taken daily on top of using, would allow the buprenorphine to stay in his system and make the switchover less painfull. swim also believes doing this can also help to stop full agonist tolerence building- and has seen some research information to corroborate this theory.

Reputation Comments on this post:

interesting to know - maybe you could post such research for us to see in the future

[dyingtomorrow]

Originally Posted by Benniboi

SWIM found that if he was going to be using gear for more than a few days at a time, a small dose of subutex, i.e. 1ml- taken daily on top of using, would allow the buprenorphine to stay in his system and make the switchover less painfull. swim also believes doing this can also help to stop full agonist tolerence building- and has seen some research information to corroborate this theory.

SWIM has found much the same, and as you say, "small dose" is key SWIM believes.

[zarlmnop]

yes, that is the other benefit, it would stop a full blown habit.

[Spucky]

Originally Posted by Benniboi

SWIM found that if he was going to be using gear for more than a few days at a time, a small dose of subutex, i.e. 1ml- taken daily on top of using, would allow the buprenorphine to stay in his system and make the switchover less painfull. swim also believes doing this can also help to stop full agonist tolerence building- and has seen some research information to corroborate this theory.

Swim done that 2 Years,
but suddenly it become impossible!
Until now he don`t know exactly whats happen to him.
Other People reported the same effect!
We guess that something inside the Receptor-Dynamic changed!

Buprenorphin is not as much discovered as we wish!

[zarlmnop]

could you explain that in a little more detail spucky? what exactly did not work after 2 years????

zarlmnop added 1 Minutes and 6 Seconds later...

Oh and, the brain will grow extra receptor sites to deal with an excess of the drug, I wonder if that is what happend to you?

[Spucky]

Originally Posted by zarlmnop

could you explain that in a little more detail spucky? what exactly did not work after 2 years????

zarlmnop added 1 Minutes and 6 Seconds later...

Oh and, the brain will grow extra receptor sites to deal with an excess of the drug, I wonder if that is what happend to you?

Many People think it that Way like swibenniboi,
so they use Bupre. and Heroin together.
But after a Time, in swims case two Years,
it becomes impossible to reduce Subutex for a tiny Heroin-Party
and then switch back to full dose (14mg) Subutex.
Even he wait 2 Days/ more than 40 Hours (for Bupre. intake)
but still get a full Rapid-Withdrawal for ca. 10 Hours.

We guess/ but are not sure this is a protective mechanism/ or misinterpretation of the Receptors!

[zarlmnop]

Well, what I am wondering now is, if you are only taking 2 mg/day if that would still happen- SWim has been doing just that off and on, mainly on for about 2 years now. Swim is scared!

[Spucky]

Originally Posted by zarlmnop

Well, what I am wondering now is, if you are only taking 2 mg/day if that would still happen-
SWim has been doing just that off and on, mainly on for about 2 years now. Swim is scared!

We think it is a matter of how long People using Bupre.
and how high the daily Dose is.

Also we, swim and his Friends, try to go slowly back to Bupre.
like step by step, this sometimes work and sometimes not.

Big Problem is that there is no scientific study about that symptome.

Ps. not all People showed this Problem.