Side effects - LSD and the cramps

[ripdas112]

Hey all,

Sorry in advance coz swim wasnt sure whether to post this here or not but couldnt really find any threads along the lines. I made a thread in the pills/mdma section about upset stomachs when taking MDMA, swim realised now he gets awful cramps/stomach problems when dropping LSD. Swim dropped 2 and a half tabs friday night and an hour later maybe 2 felt like rocks were in his stomach, real tight n annoying. Kills the experience really.
Swim was wondering if this is just swims fucked stomach with every drug he takes or what? Strange.

(Swim ate a decent amount of food that day, had a slice of pizza hour or so before dropping) Swim also dropped 2 tablets of De-Gas to help with the bloating feeling in his stomach but it had little effect, any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[Songcycle67]

Cramps are reported in varying degrees by many users. SWIM personally experiences fairly bad cramps from time to time, but I don't think it happens to everyone or all the time for most who do experience them.

Don't know of any good remedies right off hand. That sucks.

[chillinwill]

Just a theory but maybe it has something to do with the stimulant effects of both MDMA and LSD? Both of these drugs are stimulating to some degree and Red Rock knows he has gotten similar feelings to what SWIY has described before on both of these drugs as well as mushrooms and amphetamines.

[ripdas112]

Yeah maybe it is ay, its just really annoying and off putting.. Swim hates it! Thanks for your opinions fellas hopefully next time swim will have a nice trip without the extreme tightness in the stomach. If anyone else has opinions please post as swim is curious as to why this happens nearly everytime. Could it be something to do with the paper swim is sucking on? Something with the ink?
If its nuthin swim can help prevent it certainly makes swim want to stop taking mdma/lsd.

[Jatelka]

Bear in mind that serotonin does not just act on brains.

There are serotonin receptors in the gut and action there leads to smooth muscle contraction (which may conceivably cause cramps).

[humdroid]

Y was told with hallucinogenic type drugs, if the user dosen't do what the drug 'asks', say, lay down and chill in to it, spasms and cramp type things can occur, as can trembling.
Y felt this to be true on one acid experience. He thought 'Lay down on the settee, borrrrrrrrrring!', but respecting the acid, he did so.
He then received a lesson, via his own body, on how energy, mind, and body are related.
He also felt this in some shroom, mdma etc experiences.

Y was glad he listened to whoever told him this, as he dosen't know how he would have absorbed such a valuable life lesson, which has staved off panic attacks when under the influence of nothing.

[ripdas112]

Yeah swim agrees with you on that but even then swim layed down, walked around, sat, visited the toilet a few times all to get rid of these cramps but still no luck.
~
Swims trip lasted a good 16hrs and continued to have the stomach problem until swim slept and woke up the next day. Has anyone else had this? Is this going to continue to happen when swim drops LSD?

Thanks all for your input though, much appreciated!

[abraham]

never had cramps the hundred or so times swim has dropped. Two and a half tabs, damn dude.

[ripdas112]

Swims plannin on droppin 4 tabs next friday, if swim gets those stomach cramps again.. cuttin sick!

[Shampoo]

Originally Posted by Jatelka

Bear in mind that serotonin does not just act on brains.

There are serotonin receptors in the gut and action there leads to smooth muscle contraction (which may conceivably cause cramps).

Indeed. The 5-HT-2A receptor, one of the primary targets of LSD, acts peripherally in the contraction of smooth muscles. This results in reduced gating for muscle twitches which can result in small muscle cramps and twitching.

Additionally, and more applicably, 5-HT-2B receptors are partially responsible for stomach contractions. LSD is an agonist at 5-HT-2B receptors, and thus activates a G-protein cascade, resulting eventually in stomach contraction. If these receptors are surface membrane bound, sublingual administration may prevent some of this, though likely still not all of it. Stomach contractions are a necessary side effect for LSD administration, its simple neurochemistry.

That being said, upping the dose from 2.5 to 4 tabs will likely only increase this side effect. If stomach cramping occured at 2.5 tabs, it will likely occur with greater force and frequency at 4.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Shampoo: Your knowledge is an absolute treasure!

[RaverHippie]

anyone else think the comment about the trip lasting 16 hours refers more likely to a DOx type chemical? Which typically has a stronger body load than LSD...

[Shampoo]

Agreed. I noticed that earlier but didnt want the thread to turn into a blotter identification thread.

16 hours is a long duration, even for a high dose of LSD. Only LSD doses which saturate receptors and begin the process of depot-binding will last longer than 8-12 hours.

If the chemical is in fact a DOx molecule, taking 4 tabs may be a bad idea. The dose-response curve of most DOx molecules is much steeper than LSD, whose curve is generally linear. While taking 4 hits of LSD may be 4 or 5 times more potent than taking 1, taking 4 hits of a DOx blotter may be exponentially magnified, resulting in an experience 10 or more times as powerful as with 1 blotter alone.

If this dose-response curve stuff doesnt make sense, say so and I will explain it further.

Bottom line: between the stomach cramping and the potential of your friend's product as being a DOx research chemical, taking 4 hits of this material is unlikely to result in a positive experience.

[ripdas112]

about the trip being 16hrs, yes and no, visuals and wateva (5-6 hrs) the after effects last a looong time (groggy, concentration problems etc) esp when you get no sleep that night and smoke alot of bud. As for it being DOx swim hopes not, but will defiently ask the dealer next time what hes gettin in this shit. Can DOx be seen under a blacklight or is that only LSD? As for the stomach cramps, uppin the dose from 2.5 to 4 will probably make it worse who knows swim will jus have to try and find out for himself, as some people have said.. they dont experience cramps.

[RaverHippie]

The easiest and most straightforward diagnostic procedure for figuring out if it's a DOx chem is if the blotter had a pungent metallic taste. From the expanded description given above it seems like it borders more on an enlightening acid trip whose mental effects lasted a while even though physical effects had long since ceased.

[ripdas112]

Hmm yeah it did taste abit sketchy, but swim thought it was jus the way the paper tasted and the amount of ink on it. Could swim have a link about DOx ? I checked on erowid but couldnt find anything (probs searchin the wrong thing lol)

btw, thanks all for your input! its greatly appreciated

[RaverHippie]

When I meant a weird taste, this would be such an awful taste SWIY would remember it and likely put it in any trip report just because it's that fucking foul. It would be like picking up a handful of pocket change and tasting all the coins, except much nastier tasting but along those lines of a metallic taste. The average piece of paper will have a very mild strange taste naturally and that's what it seems like SWIY is talking about.

DOx is just an term for a series of psychedelic research chemicals with a similar chemical structure. In this class are chemicals like DOB (my raver friend's favorite), DOC, DOI, DOM, etc. They're similar to the 2C-x class of chemicals like 2C-B, 2C-I etc.

This thread is a good place to start bitter blotters LSD or Not

Anyways, with SWIY's cramping problem it may be better to approach the problem psychologically instead of medically. Accept it as part of the physical effects of the trip and let it be part of the experience. Try not attaching a negative stigma toward the cramps and see if that helps. I may be misinterpreting the severity of the cramps but this method has often worked for my raver friend. When he has tripped and noticed things that could commonly be thought of as negative (vomiting, cramping) he just accepts it and doesn't let it ruin his mood.

[ripdas112]

Thanks raver, yeah defiently wasnt any DOx then.. taste wasnt that foul lol. Im gonna have a look at that link now, ive had maaad confusion about all the D's.

Cheers man