New to subutex (buprenorphine)....a little help please

[mindwash]

Hello guys.Im new in this forum and i need some help please from anybody!
I leave in Greece,i was in heroin about 14 years now.[im 36].In Greece suboxone treatment start before 2 years!!!Untill this time the only treatment was or some programs with out medichine,and this program i get in with suboxone.My question is:i have to get evry day in the program 18mg of suboxone [all at once,they dont give us to take it home],exept friday that they give me 32mg suboxone all at once for the weekend and then again 18mg on monday.For an example yesterday they give me all at once 32mg and 32 for tomorow and the day after 16mg and 16mg.
I whant you guys to tell me if its beter to take tomorow at 11:00 morning 8mg and then at 20:00 afternoon the other 8mg.
Do you think its beter this way?or its beter to take tomorow at 11:00 morning all 32mg suboxone?
And for how time it covers me?
How long life it has?
And did anyone finish this treatment with suboxone with succes??
thanks alot.

[blackdb1]

Swim always takes his subs one time a day! It has an EXTREMELY LONG half-life!!! Swim has been on subs for about 8 months and is doing GREAT, however has had a couple relapses but not full blown back into opiate addiction!

Swim wishes swiyou the best of luck!!! Keep swim posted on swiyour progress!!!

[mindwash]

Thanks for your quick unser,but if i take it us i say 8mg in the morning and 8 the afternoon tomorow i think i can controled so i take then 8mg afternoon of sunday and 8ng in the morning of monday.Because when i take all together at once like tomorow,if i take it all 32mg together the morning of monday i dont wake up "good" and i can wait to see the time to go to the program for my next dosege.So i think to try it tomorow to take it like i say.I now that it have along life.rigt now i have take yeasterday afternoon 32mg and it keep's me ON....and going.
And i whant if its posible to keep one piece for an emergency...you now...
thanks again

[rokman nash]

Best thing you can do is follow the directions you recieved with your dose.If you hold some back it will give you the cushion to cheat and if your serious about kicking follow their directions to the letter.

ROC
do the day or the day will do you

[moda00]

Yes, the half-life is quite long compared to other opiates. I feel a bit conflicted on this one however. I would tend towards the idea that the more stability of blood levels is most beneficial in terms of maintenance meds, for the simple reason of keeping a more even keel in brain/body. I might lean towards that, however, because swim's on methadone and as a rapid metabolizer, she needs to dose more frequently to stay stable. Also, while I might lean towards smaller, more frequent doses of such a med out of personal preference, my understanding is that once daily dosing of subutex (buprenorphine) is the norm for most people and is considered effective- and subs have a longer half-life than methadone, which is what swim is on.

I guess my best advice would be to simply take it as prescribed, since while there may (or may not) be benefits to more frequent dosing in some cases, I think these would be outweighed anyway by dosing one way throughout the week and another way on weekends. Unless swiy is having problems with his dose it seems best to take it the same way every day, if that is working alright. If not, it's best to talk to your provider and either increase or decrease the dose or alter the dosing schedule with a doctor's input. Best of luck!

[teddybearpicnics]

Swim is wondering why they give you such a high dose. If you search the forums there is probably another thread on the "less is more" theory. I don't know if it's because of the naloxone in it or what...But swim gets a more beneficial effect if he takes 4 mg's one time during the day...Subs do have a ceiling, and swim thinks it is around 40 mg's (correct if wrong) The half life is extremely long...

Mean half life of 36 hours.

So that seems to warrent the dosage to not be so damn high...unless swiyourselfs' habit is verrrry large, maybe try holding back and saving some for a rainy day or if swiy gets booted off the program, or if dosing doesn't last too long, because there is definitly a high chance of having w.d.s from that high of a dosage.

As for your question on dosage times, Swim thinks that it is personal preference...But his own is to take around 2-6 mg's and then see how he feels, if at night he needs more to sleep, he will take another 2 or 4 mg's. This will cut back on how much you are intaking, thus reducing possible withdraws...thus making life easier. Hope swim helped, good luck
.teddy

[mindwash]

thanks again all of you for your help.i took 8mg in the morning and 8m just now,and it works great.I think is best this way from taking all 32mg together.And now i have 2 pills 8mg and i try to take one tomorow morning and save one pill for buck up if anythink hapents like if one day i can't go to the program.
thanks a lot and i wild like to hear more opinion.
And i have and one other question.Did anyone finish this treatment with susses?

[rokman nash]

The only success I know of personlly is my son inlaw who had a minor tab problem. The only way my friend dave knows is turkey, witch while being a real bitch does not last as long as other methods. The only advice I can give is ween of the subs quick cause he tells me its worse than turkey.

ROC
do he day or the day will do you

[JoyfulHagion]

Swim was on Suboxone for 4 yrs. For me, is best to split the doses up 16mg in the morning and 16mg in the afternoon. I feel better in evening if I do it this way. If I was going to do it all at the same time I would need some work to do because I can really work hard when I have that many.

JoyfulHagion added 73 Minutes and 24 Seconds later...

Since I spent 4 years on suboxone I thought I would share a few things with you.
I am still on narcotics for pain. Pain is the only thing that prevented me from getting off opiates using suboxone. Suboxone all ways made me feel good. The analgesic properties helped with my pain. When I was on 3 8mg a day (a total of 24mg) the pain was under control. Then I got down to 4mg a day and I began to hurt. I hurt my back in May of this year and had to get back on opiates. Suboxone all ways made me feel good. Suboxone has a ceiling for euphoria. You can take 2 or 3 and feel about the same as 4 or 5. Don’t exceed the dosage; learn to make the best of your dose. That’s why I believe splitting the dose and taking the dose as late in the afternoon on Saturday and Sunday the better the chances you can have a good long night. Suboxone perked me up and made me feel energetic.
I never had cravings when I was on suboxone. One side effect I had with suboxone was the inability for me to cum when having sex. This was only with the larger doses. On suboxone women will think you are a real stud with your staying power.
DO NOT Inject suboxone because you will go into immediate withdrawals!
Be Careful with alcohol, wine, beer, vodka, etc.
You can take opiates with suboxone. They might tell you that it will make you go into withdrawals, but that’s not true. I never took pills but once when I ate about 6 5mg hydrocodones. I felt nothing. My tolerance was too high. So you can take other opiates with suboxones but your chance of feeling any euphoria is small. That is part of the way that suboxone works. So, don’t waste your money and screw up your program for nothing.
I

JoyfulHagion added 1 Minutes and 51 Seconds later...

Since I spent 4 years on suboxone I thought I would share a few things with you.
I am still on narcotics for pain. Pain is the only thing that prevented me from getting off opiates using suboxone. Suboxone all ways made me feel good. The analgesic properties helped with my pain. When I was on 3 8mg a day (a total of 24mg) the pain was under control. Then I got down to 4mg a day and I began to hurt. I hurt my back in May of this year and had to get back on opiates. Suboxone all ways made me feel good. Suboxone has a ceiling for euphoria. You can take 2 or 3 and feel about the same as 4 or 5. Don’t exceed the dosage; learn to make the best of your dose. That’s why I believe splitting the dose and taking the dose as late in the afternoon on Saturday and Sunday the better the chances you can have a good long night. Suboxone perked me up and made me feel energetic.
I never had cravings when I was on suboxone. One side effect I had with suboxone was the inability for me to cum when having sex. This was only with the larger doses. On suboxone women will think you are a real stud with your staying power.
DO NOT Inject suboxone because you will go into immediate withdrawals!
Be Careful with alcohol, wine, beer, vodka, etc.
You can take opiates with suboxone. They might tell you that it will make you go into withdrawals, but that’s not true. I never took pills but once when I ate about 6 5mg hydrocodones. I felt nothing. My tolerance was too high. So you can take other opiates with suboxones but your chance of feeling any euphoria is small. That is part of the way that suboxone works. So, don’t waste your money and screw up your program for nothing.
I believe you can get off drugs with suboxone. Goood Luck!!!I

[teddybearpicnics]

Joyful, Teddy just wants to expand a little bit on your post, very nice though.

Originally Posted by JoyfulHagion

Suboxone all ways made me feel good. Suboxone has a ceiling for euphoria. You can take 2 or 3 and feel about the same as 4 or 5. Don’t exceed the dosage; learn to make the best of your dose.

Very true...Also, UTFSE and try and find something about the less is more theory. For example swim gets a better effect if after stabilized, he takes 4-6 mg's rather than 12-16 mg's...Why this is true swim does not know. He has heard of it from other people, and his girl was convinced about it before swim was. Now really trying to stay clean, swim agrees. Just a thought since swiy are on such a high dose.

Originally Posted by JoyfulHagion

Suboxone perked me up and made me feel energetic.
I never had cravings when I was on suboxone. One side effect I had with suboxone was the inability for me to cum when having sex. This was only with the larger doses. On suboxone women will think you are a real stud with your staying power.

Swim does not get cravings on suboxone either. A lot of it is depending on your mindset for the day, but if you just accept that you're just going to eat the suboxone and not worry about your DOC, you will be much further ahead. Swim also noticed the extreme staying power, he thinks that is because of the opiate receptors being occupied. We all know how opiates are natures viagra ;]

Originally Posted by JoyfulHagion

DO NOT Inject suboxone because you will go into immediate withdrawals!
Be Careful with alcohol, wine, beer, vodka, etc.
You can take opiates with suboxone. They might tell you that it will make you go into withdrawals, but that’s not true. I never took pills but once when I ate about 6 5mg hydrocodones. I felt nothing. My tolerance was too high. So you can take other opiates with suboxones but your chance of feeling any euphoria is small. That is part of the way that suboxone works.

Injecting suboxone is stupid, from swims experience it did NOT send him into immediate withdraw, but it did make him feel very strage, and not as effective as if he would have sublingually ingested. Now someone who is opiate nieve, it may very well be possible to get high.

You CANNOT get high from opiates while on suboxone, Its binding affinity is stronger than any other opiate, and while your DOC might put up a fight, it's a battle that is lost by science..and it is possible to still overdose and not even get high swim thinks...So be careful. That's all swim has for now.

.teddy

[mindwash]

Now i have some problems with my stomach.Like i have go to toilete on friday and since that day i dint have go again.Sould i worry?I dont feel i whant to go to the toilete today but do you think i sould take some medichine to "make"me go?to the bath???
please help me on that!!!!

[thebige]

Hi mindwash.......Swim wouldn't worry to much about the bathroom,it's only been a couple days,correct? If we were talking a couple weeks.???....then swim would send for help.Maybe it's just swim but a fecal impaction does not sound like that much fun.....
Now that I think of it,might make a interesting thread.
So about the suboxone,for some it can be a lifesaver and for others it turns out being one of the hardest things to ween themselves off of.Recently, fourm member RichardSmoker,wrote of swims pain in the ass taper from the stuff......Swim has only used it very short term (5 to 8 days)to get off of a long opiate-run,painlessly and with no withdrawal symptoms.Still others find that long term maintainence with Suboxone is what they need for depression,pain-control or to keep their heads on tight after traveling a rough road with opiates............for some it has more benifits for them then methadone treatment.
Swim could always talk to the doctor about his/her concerns and possibly the doctor may offer other dosing times or mg or both.
As long as patient and Dr both agree what suboxone treatment is going to acomplish and both work toward that goal....after all is said and done ,who cares as long as you get there,and it improves your quality of life.
Enough of the ramble.....OH and Joyfulhagion..Glad that you seem to have had some success with pain-control and suboxone,sometimes these things have a way of working out.

[JoyfulHagion]

I would not recommend taking laxatives unless you absolutely have to. I have found that eating a apple everyday helps with bowel movements. If your stools are hard then try a stool softner. I agree with thebige and would wait until I was bloated before I took a laxative. Also, you should talk with the people at the clinic and get their opinion on your stools. As you decrease your dose this will become less and less of a problem.

[Richard_smoker]

Using an aggressive 8-week taper managed to tone down some of the withdrawal intensity...

-DICK

[mindwash]

look guys,hear in greece we are very mach behind in the treatment with Subotex or suboxone.Until this year they was 3 goverment programs that the give only methadone.I CANT take suboxone the way I like OR reduse my dose because they give it to me the program every day the doctor's and they wach me because they afreaid that mayby i split it out from my mouth and try to get it out to sell them on the black market.So i go every day like today and they give me 18mg every day.But the weeken because the program it's close the give me on friday 32mg for friday and suturday all together and in my heand 18mg for sunday.When they give me 18mg in my heand or more i can control it and take for example 4mg in the morning and if i dont feel good i take the other 4mg the nigth befor i sleep.Thats my problem.Here in greece its not like UK or USA or onether country that they give you a prescription the doctor and take it from the farmacy so you can have it in your home and take them us you think its beter.
I hope you guys unederstand me!!!!I wish i can find a way to bye suboxone to have in my home.
And if some day i cant go go to the program the next day i have to pie first and then they give me my dose.If i not pie they dont give me.
After that we have the fear that if we do something wrong like take lexotaniil they tell us that they soot out from the program.Imagine that???? From 18mg to stop me emedatly....even 5g of heroine can make me feel good.And i dont whant to get again to this shit!!!!
I like the suboxone they have help me very much but always with the fear that something maby going wrong and stop me from the treatment.
The onlyway i think is to go to the european cuort the program because from anyone how is in the program they take 1500euro from European program [delor].I hope you understant because my english is not good.
And i whant to say that i never think soot suboxone or subotex.
Us for the bathroom i finaly go but with a litle help from medichine that they give me the doctor of the program.
Thanks for hear me.

[teddybearpicnics]

Mindwash, Can you not talk to them and tell them that this dosage is giving you bad side effects..Tell them that you would like to take a smaller dose, How can they get mad at you for that? They'll probably charge you the same amount, but get to keep more of their wonder-drug. You know? Just be honest, that you don't want to be a slave to this drug forever, your money is tight, and you only want to say on for about 2 months, with a taper down after about 2 weeks. Keep us informed, Swim is always curious about why these clinics don't take the people's well being into consideration first, you know? And how different other countries run their clinics. There should be a large factor of input that the patient gets, after all it's their addiction. In the states, We get that freedom, with suboxone at least...no experience with methadone, thank god. But just try and talk to them swimindwash. Good Luck!
.teddy

[moda00]

Originally Posted by mindwash

First of all thanks all of you guys for your help!I have told them that i dont want to stuck in onether drug,and i whant to finish the program more soon i can,and i whant to give me lower dose us Richard say and they tell me that they do that ONLY when i pie and everything on the resold is 0 [zero].I mean hash+benzodiazepam.I told youguys i live in a fucking country....they take money for any person of us from the goverment about 1500 euro.So its beter for them to have you IN the program for 4 years and more.They dont whant you to finish!!!
If there is a way to find and have suboxone in my home be sure that i can reduse my dose us you say and finaly finish.But in greece suboxone have only this 3 programs that belone to goverment,and they dont sell it on the farmacy.I hate that i have to go every day 30km to take my dosage!Im tierd!!!!If i say i have problems with it they reduse my dosage to zero in one week and they soot me out of it.
And imagine that:to get in one of this program you mast wait 8 years!!!!
I wait from the year 2000 to get in......
Here in greece they whant you junkie!!!!!!too sad......idont now sometimes imconfused.The only think i can do is when they start to trust me more and give me suboxone to take home [so i can go tothe prog only 2 times per week i start to reduse my dosage alone without tell them anythink.Its the only way.
To bad that i cant find a way to bay some suboxone......

I think it would be worth asking them what their program is for a taper, once someone is ready to get off. If I understand correctly, they do have some mechanism for this (other than the rapid 1 week taper, which is obviously not so good) but they just want to make sure that before they do so, you have clean urines and are stable in recovery, no? Still, I think the patient should have a say, but there is a big difference between not allowing a taper, and encouraging one to wait until they are stabilized. As a patient, you should have a right to help plan in your treatment and understand their policies that affect you- maybe ask for their program handbook or a written policy as to what is expected in a taper? It would be ideal to have a supported taper through the program- but if that is not an option, and swiy is ready to get off, it is certainly possible to do it oneself if and when one gets take-home doses on a regular basis.

Is swiy using other drugs? Is s/he feeling cravings for opiates still? Does swiy have other negative side effects other than constipation? (Constipation is common with opiates and as you say, a medication or herb can often help with this problem.) But, I guess what I am asking, is what swiy's ultimate goal is. If swiy is saying he feels ready to taper off, then its worth talking to the clinic and asking how to facilitate this, because if one can only adjust the dose on the weekends, one will not be able to taper successfully or adjust on that basis- it has to be done each day (obviously).. hope that makes sense.

I definitely understand the concern that they have no incentive to work with a patient to get them off the med- i is like that in the US with our methadone clinics, similar system. If it were to be managed by a doctor, and the medication itself picked up from a pharmacy, then the treatment decisions would be separate from the financial interest and patient could get better treatment. But as long as it is run by either private or government companies and the money goes directly to those who are making the decisions and also providing the drug, things can get screwy. Hopefully this will change in the future!! I'd be interested to learn more about how the program runs in your country!

[mindwash]

Originally Posted by moda00

I think it would be worth asking them what their program is for a taper, once someone is ready to get off. If I understand correctly, they do have some mechanism for this (other than the rapid 1 week taper, which is obviously not so good) but they just want to make sure that before they do so, you have clean urines and are stable in recovery, no? Still, I think the patient should have a say, but there is a big difference between not allowing a taper, and encouraging one to wait until they are stabilized. As a patient, you should have a right to help plan in your treatment and understand their policies that affect you- maybe ask for their program handbook or a written policy as to what is expected in a taper? It would be ideal to have a supported taper through the program- but if that is not an option, and swiy is ready to get off, it is certainly possible to do it oneself if and when one gets take-home doses on a regular basis.

Is swiy using other drugs? Is s/he feeling cravings for opiates still? Does swiy have other negative side effects other than constipation? (Constipation is common with opiates and as you say, a medication or herb can often help with this problem.) But, I guess what I am asking, is what swiy's ultimate goal is. If swiy is saying he feels ready to taper off, then its worth talking to the clinic and asking how to facilitate this, because if one can only adjust the dose on the weekends, one will not be able to taper successfully or adjust on that basis- it has to be done each day (obviously).. hope that makes sense.

I definitely understand the concern that they have no incentive to work with a patient to get them off the med- i is like that in the US with our methadone clinics, similar system. If it were to be managed by a doctor, and the medication itself picked up from a pharmacy, then the treatment decisions would be separate from the financial interest and patient could get better treatment. But as long as it is run by either private or government companies and the money goes directly to those who are making the decisions and also providing the drug, things can get screwy. Hopefully this will change in the future!! I'd be interested to learn more about how the program runs in your country!

---------------------
Hi,i try to explaine to you how the prog works.First of all you go Every day [after one week that they need to stabilized anyone].For me they give me 18mg every day and i have to go every day to take it but not in my home.I must take it front of them because they afraid that maby split them out and try to shell them on the black market.After 2-3 months,and if you have stop use any other drug,like hash,lexotanil,or anything else they start to trast you and you can go to the prog 2 times per week and give you suboxone to take it home.If in 2 months you dont stop use other drug,they soot you out from the prog.[Imagine that!!!!To take 18mg every day and one day they stop you with out reduse your dose!!!then even 5g of heroine dosend make you ok !!!]
p.s.all this time you see and a doctor one time a week.
So after a year they start to reduse your dosage slowly to 0mg and give you nalorex so you can be safe.
The minimum time that you must stay at the prog i think is about 2 years!!!.
If i have suboxone in my home like other country's do i now that i can stop it in 3-4 months.The reason i say that is that this week because the prog was close for 3 days they give me 4 pills x 8mg,i took it us I like.8mg in the morning 8mg the nigth,8mg the other day and i skeep a day and i have one 8mg in my poket.
I hope you understand me my friend.
And i wish if you or anyone else now where or how i can bye some pills of suboxone or buberemorphine to reduse my dosage alone,and see my personal doctor not them doctor.
Heroine i dont whant to take again.I dont feel that i whant it.I feel very good.But i dont whant to live with the fear that maby stop me from the program,and then what????
thanks all of you guys.
WERE CAN I FIND SUBOXONE OR BUBREMORPHINE??ONLINE SHOP??
help me if anyone nows something.
I hope to understand because my english is not so good.

[Richard_smoker]

your english is fine enough.

you need to encourage your doctor to allow you to systematically decrease your daily dose every 2 to 3 weeks by about 1/3 of the current dose. For example, take
18mg for 2 weeks, then decrease to
12mg daily for 2-3 weeks, then decrease to
8mg daily for 2-3 weeks, then decrease to
6mg daily for 2-3 weeks, then
4mg daily for 2-3 weeks, then
3mg daily for 2-3 weeks, then decrease to
2mg daily for 2-3 weeks, then decrease to
1.5mg for 2-3 weeks, then decrease to
1mg for 2-3 weeks, then decrease to
0.6mg for 2-3 weeks, then decrease to
0.4mg for 2-3 weeks, then decrease to
0.2mg for 2-3 weeks, STOP.

TOTAL TIME ON BUPRENORPHINE: 24 to 36 WEEKS.

This should be almost completely painless. Just do NOT relapse! If you DO relapse, then pick up your buprenorphine dose at the next-to-lowest dose that will appease your craving. then carry on with the taper.
-DICK

[Richard_smoker]

oops...guess i did miss some important details.

look, if they're giving you too much buprenorphine, just complain of side-effects typical of bupe overdose (i.e. headache, difficulty concentrating your vision when trying to read).

[mindwash]

First of all thanks all of you guys for your help!I have told them that i dont want to stuck in onether drug,and i whant to finish the program more soon i can,and i whant to give me lower dose us Richard say and they tell me that they do that ONLY when i pie and everything on the resold is 0 [zero].I mean hash+benzodiazepam.I told youguys i live in a fucking country....they take money for any person of us from the goverment about 1500 euro.So its beter for them to have you IN the program for 4 years and more.They dont whant you to finish!!!
If there is a way to find and have suboxone in my home be sure that i can reduse my dose us you say and finaly finish.But in greece suboxone have only this 3 programs that belone to goverment,and they dont sell it on the farmacy.I hate that i have to go every day 30km to take my dosage!Im tierd!!!!If i say i have problems with it they reduse my dosage to zero in one week and they soot me out of it.
And imagine that:to get in one of this program you mast wait 8 years!!!!
I wait from the year 2000 to get in......
Here in greece they whant you junkie!!!!!!too sad......idont now sometimes imconfused.The only think i can do is when they start to trust me more and give me suboxone to take home [so i can go tothe prog only 2 times per week i start to reduse my dosage alone without tell them anythink.Its the only way.
To bad that i cant find a way to bay some suboxone......

[Richard_smoker]

look for other buprenorphine formulations like "Temgesic"

this medicine has been around for the last 30 years.

[mindwash]

Originally Posted by Richard_smoker

look for other buprenorphine formulations like "Temgesic"

this medicine has been around for the last 30 years.

--------
i find it on google,but do you now where i can by it online?or in europe or in us or from anywhere????
And is like subotex-suboxone?i mean if i take 18mg suboxone per day how mach of this i mast take???
thanks

Reputation Comments on this post:

please be advised of the rules- it is illegal to request info on buying rx online without a prescription, thanks!

[Richard_smoker]

it's the exact same drug. it was never released in the U.S. because it's not a very effective pain-killer. But as soon as word got out that it was helping addicts kick their opiate habits, the big pharmaceutical companies started rushing in to patent it in the U.S. for addiction treatment.

I know it has been available in mexico and asian countries for several decades. I naturally assumed that it would also be available in Europe. I'd suggest looking up information like "buprenorphine" and "pain relief" or "analgesia" to find out what the legal status of buprenorphine for pain relief is in your country.

The suboxone & subutex formulations are WAY WAY STRONGER than the pain pill buprenorphine. Temgesic is dosed in 0.1 and 0.2mg sublingual tablets.

That should give you an idea of how powerful this drug is even at the tiniest doses. -DICK

[Richard_smoker]

i don't think you're going to find that kind of information here. i understand that it's something that you probably NEED right now but given the fact that we don't encourage illegal use of the site for obtaining drugs, we can't help you there. But, honestly i have no idea how you would find something like that out. there are no legit/legal sites in the US for obtaining drugs like buprenorphine. Europe might be different but i seriously doubt it.

looks like your best plan will be to stick with the program. you contradict yourself though by saying first that they just throw you back on the streets after 18mg/day for 4-6 months, then say that they wean you down to zero mg after a year on 18mg.

honestly, a year on 18mg might be exactly what you need most right now. i know it sounds like a giant pain in the ass, but it will ingrain in your head that you can live your life on an even keel and help you realize exactly what it feels like to be the exact SAME every day.

My advise is to go with what you have. Stick out the program. Especially if they will wean you off the suboxone. -DICK