Journal - descent into oblivion (coming off opiates)

[rokman nash]

This is a story about my friend Dave. Dave has a good life,married to a wonderful woman 18 yrs,3 kids 25 b,22b,&20g.Dave started his own business in 2000 and has been moderately well VERY successfull.Dave is now 43 as of Dec 7 and has been doing vicodin oxys and heroin for 4 years. Correction the H has only cropped up the last 6 months.Now this was not new to Dave, he grew up in Detroit in the late 70s early 80s.Dave smoked his first joint at 9, took acid and mescaline at 11.

Dave always was a rebel if you weren't suposed to do it you could bet he would be first in line.Through school Dave partied like animal, fortunatly never had to study, made grades and got out of school w/only a few minor scrapes with the law.

Dave joined the US army in 83 did well in basic training and ended up in the Republic of Panama for a 3 year hitch.At that time 90 percent of the cocaine going to the US stopped here.Dave and his buddies certainly got thier share.3-4 day binges were the norm.Prescription drugs were OTC back then and they took them all.Through all this Dave performed this job in an exemplary fashion.Dave could do coke for 3 days take 10 blue valiums to come down and then run 5 miles.

Oh to be young again

Dave finished his hitch came home in '86 got married and led a quiet life for many years. I know i'm leaving some stuff out here, but for the sake of this story it doesnt matter.

Flash to 1999
Dave is the type of guy who can sell ice to eskimos. He leaves his high paying job to go out on his own.Dave is very sucessfull and in a year is making good money.Big problem, Dave has fucked up his back.Doctor gives him a scrip for 30 vic10s. Dave eats those 4-5 days. He goes back for more doc hooks him up and says no more. (wonder why?)

Dave has to find a source and does. He does vics for the next 2 years.His source tells him about this new super drug called oxycontin. The first time Dave took it he knew he was in BIG trouble.

Dave did the vocodin/oxy boogie for the next couple years.He knows this is a problem but can deal with it later. The money is rolling in.A young woman of his aquaintaince tells him hes fucking up his liver with all these pills and suggests some powder (H).Dave says fuck yes lets do it. He took his first snort 6 months ago and since then he has become someone I do not recognize.

In the four years Dave has spent approximately 300,000 on drugs w/o any member of his family knowing.Well that as changed on 11/26 Dave decided this shit had to stop. He called and had his wife meet at home and told her the whole sorid tale.His wife did not bail on him, she has some huge anger and trust issues, but Dave will deal with them.

So the plan was to kick cold on 11/30,get all the family out of town.The last thing dave took was 60mg methodone on 11/30 @5am.Dave had some klonopin to sleep and exedrin migraine thats it.Dave figured this would take 3-maybe4 days to get past the pysical part.Dave is a dumb cocknocker.Its now been 11 days and still having problems,not enough to go back,but enough to make me think about it.

Ill add more later tired now

roc NashvilleTN
do the day dont let the day do you

rokman nash added 16 Minutes and 35 Seconds later...

sorry about the grammar and typing guys.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Very good advice and a great journal.
	Very powerful also has a message.
	Insightful story - control and loss of control
	Genuine and insightful

[AvidFan]

So many stories like this, it's tragic. My friend patient X is on day 5 of de-OXYfication, getting that shitty oxycodone out of his system. He never had physical pain, he started on it to get out of it because bad stuff happened in his life - but bad stuff that everyone has to deal with. But at the time the OXY made everything so much easier to deal with (except he didn't deal with it, he just blocked it the fuck out)

Don't worry about grammar and typing - it's hard. After 11 days your friend is getting over the hill, there will be dangers ahead, but don't go back. It isn't worth it - says Patient X, who has been back too many times and is sticking this bastard out somehow, hour by hour and day by day.

My heart goes out to your friend, good luck

[rokman nash]

Thanks for the words Bro. Dave told me when you do this yourself the only thing that helps besides sleep is talking /email whatever.

ROC
do the day dont let the day do you

rokman nash added 145 Minutes and 33 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by rokman nash

This is a story about my friend Dave. Dave has a good life,married to a wonderful woman 18 yrs,3 kids 25 b,22b,&20g.Dave started his own business in 2000 and has been moderately well VERY successfull.Dave is now 43 as of Dec 7 aand has been doing vicodin oxys and heroin for 4 years. Correction the H has only cropped up the last 6 months.Now this was not new to Dave, he grew up in Detroit in the late 70s early 80s.Dave smoked his first joint at 9, took acid and mescaline at 11.

Dave always was a rebel if you weren't suposed to do it you could bet he would be first in line.Through school Dave partied like animal, fortunatly never had to study, made grades and got out of school w/only a few minor scrapes with the law.

Dave joined the US army in 83 did well in basc training and ended up in the Republic OF Panama for a 3 year hitch.At that time 90 percent of the cocaine going to the US stopped here.Dave and his buddies certainly got thier share.3-4 day binges were the norm.Prescription drugs were OTC back then and they took them all.Through all this Dave performed this job in an exenplary fashion.Dave could do coke for 3 days take 10 blue valiums to come down and then run 5 miles.

Oh to be young again

Dave finished his hitch came home in '86 got married and led a quiet life for many years. I know i'm leaving some stuff out here, bbut for the sake of this story it doesnt matter.

Flash to 1999
Dave is the type of guy who can sell ice to eskimos. He leaves his high paying job to go out on his own.Dave is very sucessfull and in a year is making good money.Big problem Dave has fucked up his back.doctor gives him a scrip for 30 vic10s. Dave eats those 4-5 days. He goes back for more doc hooks him up and says no more. (wonder why?)

Dave has to find a source and does. He does vics for the next 2 years.His source tells him about this new super drug called oxycontin. The first time Dave took it he knew he was in BIG trouble.

Dave did the vocodin/oxy boogie for the next couple years.He knows this is a problem but can deal with it later. The money is rolling in.A young woman of his aquaintaince tells him hes fucking up his liver with all these pills and suggests some powder (H).Dave says fuck yes lets do it. He took his first snort 6 months ago and since then he has become someone I do not recognize.

In the four years Dave has spent approximately 300,000 on drugs w/o any member of his family knowing.Well that as changed on 11/26 Dave decided this shit had to stop. He called and had his wife meet at home and told her the whole sorid tale.His wife did not bail on him, she has some huge anger and trust issues, but Dave will deal with them.

So the plan was to kick cold on 11/30,get all the family out of town.The last thing dave took was 60mg meth on 11/30 @5am.Dave had some clonopin to sleep and exedrin migraine thats it.Dave figured this would take 3-maybe4 days to get past the pysical part.Dave is a dumb cocknocker.Its now been 11 days and still having problems,not enough to go back,but enough to make me think about it.

Ill add more later tired now

roc NashvilleTN
do the day dont let the day do you

rokman nash added 16 Minutes and 35 Seconds later...

sorry about the grammar guys.

rokman nash added 0 Minutes and 31 Seconds later...

sorry about the grammar and typing guys.

Got my shit together

So on Nov 1 Dave was taking an average of 10-15 vics 6-10 oxy80s ,and 1/2 g (h) day. harrah he's the fuckin man Yeah right.
Nodding ,missing work ,burning the fucking rugs unbielievablly no one knew. Dave had an excuse for every thing, and wow people believed his junky douchbag ass.For his birthday his wonderful wife bought him a pug pup. Dave danm near killed the dog the first 2 days because he was a stumbling falling junky ,still wife didnt know.When Dave rolled his fat ass over on the couch one night and heard his little pup scream he had an epifany. If I kill this pup then i dont deserve life. I made my decision that day to fess up( my b'day gift came early). So thats my basic story leaving out the near death, overdoses , and other criminal shit that Dave has to hide to live with himself.

If I can answer one question or help any of you I will. All you have to do is ask.



Roc do the day or the day will do you

[motherlove1973]

How are SWIy doing now? Is SWIY are clean? God swiy is strong, swims mind can not stop thinking about how to get cash for H. Nothing else works anymore,even the oxymorphone does not dent it.

[rokman nash]

Daves doing as well as can be expected. No alcohol in over a week.Still clean and have not had any thoughts of relapse lately.As Dave gets farther way from the beginning he can really put into perspective how far he has come(a long fucking way).

Daves dealing with his health issues right now,and that has actually helped him focus on doing the right thing daily.He hasn't revealed it yet,but he also found out he is diabetic this week.Nothing to do with drug abuse,just a hereditary thing.So big changes for Dave.His doc said if he hadn't stopped the junk when he did he wouldn't have lasted out the year(so X's good angel was looking out for him).Thanks X lol

Good thoughts

[PsychoActivist]

SWIM would like to thank Dave for the story and encourages him to hang in there. These types of stories offer hope to many people who think there is no hope. Sounds like Dave has been through a lot of shit in his lifetime, and though this may be about as tough as it gets for him, SWIM is sure he can make it through this shit too.

Go Dave.

[Richard_smoker]

I have to commend Dave for his courage. He certainly deserves our applause and recognition... unapologetic about his past, honest with the details, seems to have a loving, understanding specimen of a wife. You even gave her the rope to hang you with and she chose to stick it out and help you get better. She loves you Dave and I don't know if you could ever ask for anything more revealing or truthful. Painful, but good. Hurts at first, sure she felt a little 'out of the loop' but you brought her back in admitting you were wrong and have a problem, and it sounds like she's doing exactly what she's supposed to in order to help you with this 1 issue, right now.

Dave really has all the required peripheral or "helpful" ingredients. Examples: social support, business support, high self-esteem (he could sell ice to an eskimo). At this point, I'd have to say that ALL THE CARDS ARE STACKED *IN* DAVE'S FAVOR!! On the flipside, Dave is gonna be Dave's own worst enemy.

FAR from unique. After reading the events that led up to his 'present'...I'm not surprised with the details. I can relate to the wife who must battle issues with trust--but trust me--these feelings will only get better and better with time...just make sure he discusses issues like trust regularly with his wife. Truth be told, MOST WIVES I know of in this situation felt like the whole process brought them MUCH CLOSER together!

I am inspired by Dave's tale. It truly takes a VERY big, strong man to humble himself, admit his errors, wrongdoings. KUDOS!

Now in what's probably the most difficult 'stage' of all, Dave will need to let down his guard. He will learn HOW to ACCEPT a stranger's time, generosity, gifts...whatever, it's all the same! It's their LOVE.

guilt, shame, remorse, and getting off a long love/hate affair w/opiates make this step very difficult for most--cuz they MUST reconcile the old, former self-image with the NEW ONE!!!! the NEW LIFE (post-junky) finds beauty in everything around him it seems…the whole world, the seasons, the environment, the people--suddenly it is all HIS again! This will signify that is finally allowing himself to forgive HIMSELF! and this is where the magic comes in.

I've long held that in terms of "Addiction"---opiates, aka narcotics like painkillers, cough syrup, heroin, fentanyl, oxy, etc are a UNIQUE and HIGHLY HIGHLY ADDICTIVE phenomenon. I think ANYONE & everyone is a junk addict…whether or not they realize it has a lot to do with the qualities and dosages they've been exposed to. Opiate addiction will sneak in very quickly and it can maintain itself behind lies and more damn lies for a long, long time.

not being one to just 'accept' God, I felt 12 steps were for OTHER PEOPLE…& didn't apply to me. I never went to "a rehab facility" for formal addiction treatment. But that's because I'm LUCKY and BLESSED to have found exactly what I needed within the 4-walls of my own house!!

Now, I take it upon myself to educate the junky about his real options, to educate the PUBLIC about how serious of a disease this is, and also making them realize that heroin and lortab 10's are THE EXACT SAME THING!!! My next ambitious phase includes educating the physicians, but that's always a challenge…dealing w/someone who already knows everything.

On a side note: As a result of my own quest for truth, i have nearly come nearly full-circle on the God/Faith issue. Right now I am believe that there is SOMETHING we can't see or grasp that does actually transcend our daily programs and rituals, sleep & wake cycles...every distraction seems to be available and in place for use when necessary.

[rokman nash]

Thanks Dick for the kind words. You have been an inspiration to me. Your last message was a big help. I have 12 clean days and have slept for the last 2 nights with the help of 2mg klonopin, but know that can't last.I have to do this drug free like I did way back when.Feel like a normal drug free person for the first time today,hope it lasts.

ROC
do the day or the day will do you

rokman nash added 569 Minutes and 7 Seconds later...

Went to work today and actually got every thing done. Rarely thought about...... I think I might be gaining some perspective on these issues. It looks like I might see the other side.


ROC
do the day or the day will do you

[AvidFan]

My heart - and my friend Patient X's - sing for you, we hope your friend is truly getting there, sounds like you're both doing great, keep up the good work

[rokman nash]

5:30 am Day 13 slept all night and feel incredibly great. yesterday was a wonderful day also, but i felt incredibly emotional, a song, or look would set me off.Wonder what today will bring? Most all W/D symtoms, at least the most painfull have departed. This is uncharted territory for me as i start to remember how it feels to be strait. Its been 4 long continuous years. This will take some getting used to.


ROC
do the day or the day will do you

[AvidFan]

Originally Posted by rokman nash

but i felt incredibly emotional, a song, or look would set me off.

Same here. It is part of being human.

Well done

[rokman nash]

hows patient X AVID this wonderful am


ROC

[AvidFan]

Not too bad - got a bit of a chest infection, but going out for a Christmas meal shortly

[rokman nash]

3:30 day 13 worked all day got everything done.Gonna try to sleep unaided tonight. We'll see how that goes.Feel like listening to very LOUD music right now for some strange reason.

ROC
do the day or the day will do you

rokman nash added 974 Minutes and 22 Seconds later...

TWO WEEKS 14days my friend has been off all opiates. I must say since he quit celebrating his birthday 3 yrs ago, he picks today as his rebirth. he knows there are rocky roads ahead,but he's certain they can be negotiated as an exjunky.love to all


ROC
do the day or the day will do you

rokman nash added 499 Minutes and 52 Seconds later...

Well its day 14 and has not been a particularly good day (not used to having normal aches and pains). Dave has to go meet his connect to make a final payment, and frankly he's not looking forward to it.He doesn't think he will cop but is uncomfortable being that close to the fucking devil.
This will be my last journey of this sort I promise myself.


ROC
do the day or the day will do you

[AvidFan]

There will be ups and downs. Tell Dave to stay strong, he has come this far, hope it went well.

[rokman nash]

Made it through my journey unscathed. day 15 awaits with no fear for Dave, he has made it this far i'll be danmed if he'll be stopped now.

[Richard_smoker]

NICE!!! I told you!!!! CONGRATULATIONS!

[cra$h]

As long as all the sources are gone, Dave'll have no choice. If the connects are gone, no relapse, which swim thinks is the hard part.

[rokman nash]

Thank you Dick and Jimmy, it got dicey but I manned up. I"m gonna beat the bitch.

ROC
do the day or the day will do you

rokman nash added 531 Minutes and 27 Seconds later...

Day 15 5:00am Boy when I was in my other manifestation there we not many (unless forced) wake ups this early.Now I"m up before the crows wideeyed and straight.A cup of good coffee and a cigarette are now my vices of choice. I think this is a great time to sit and reflect (and maybe start the new Steven King book my beautiful daughter brought me last night).peace and love


ROC

do the day or the day will do you

[Richard_smoker]

WOW!!! I TOLD YOU!!!

I *NEVER* woke up so early in all my life!!!

This is great news... i think it's all about being able to make yourself fall asleep--somehow--then once the sun's up, you're up!

i know i told you this already via pm, but for everyone else's benefit, the reason it's so difficult to fall asleep (aka restless legs, insomnia) is because after withdrawing from opiates, your body's autonomic nervous system is constantly 'revved-up.' this is good. it is a sign that your tissues and organs are healing themselves 24/7. this is where clonidine comes in POST-withdrawal...as a sleeping aid/adjunct to slow down your adrenaline system enough to grab a couple hours of sleep. -DICK

[rokman nash]

Your the man Dick, I truly think I would have slipped by now if not for you, and my friend Patient X.


ROC
do the day or the day will do you

Reputation Comments on this post:

what a great story!! we're here to help you!!!!

[Richard_smoker]

hey man, that delights me to read!

honestly, that's what i'm here for...so, anytime brother, anytime!

are you starting to feel like you've been "born again" yet?? that was the coolest feeling i've probably ever had as an adult!

if/when you do feel that way, it signifies that you're beyond the "doing" stage of quitting and you're beginning to "become" an ex-junkie. it's a wonderful feeling. when i first experienced it, i literally started crying like a baby...not cuz i was sad, but just because of all the emotional relief--like weights were lifted off my shoulders. weights that had been there so long i didn't even realize they were there! -DICK

[rokman nash]

Honestly not yet, Dave came off cold of pretty high dosages of junk. But sleeping every night is helping him deal with the constant urges to backslide. Which he WILL not let happen.


ROC
do the day or let the day do you

[Richard_smoker]

well, it will come... and coming off high doses is fine--as long as it hurt like hell coming off. i know that sounds kinda sick or sadistic but it's true... Dave needs to flip thru his memory banks for some truly TERRIBLE withdrawal hells right now, while it's still fresh on his mind. These should be plenty strong enough to fight off the urges when they resurface... -DICK

[rokman nash]

I believe Dave said somewhere he decided on cold turkey so he could feel the pain and experience this as part of the whole fucked up process. Dave did not expect the w/ds to last this long. Though they are a minor whisper,basicly for all intents physically gone, now the mind games pick up. Day 15 and it was all he could do to drive directly home from work and not cop. Now mind you he managed but only because of his hard fucking head.He guesses the last three previous wonderful days did not have the impact he expected. The hard part starts now.He need your words guys.


ROC
do the day or the day will do you