Other - Heroin myths

[Junkhead23]

AnySWIYs know any?

Reputation Comments on this post:

good thread subject

[chillinwill]

One myth that Red Rock has heard very often is that heroin will make you become addicted the very first time you try it and you become addicted instantly.

[mickey_bee]

It's cheap.

[chillinwill]

Red Rock has also heard from some people on the street that if you stick with just snorting it and don't progress to IV'ing it, then you can't become addicted to it which we all know is bullshit

[jon-q]

It's funny that swiy should mention this,Because swi-q was talking to an extremely wooden looking gentleman only the other day-Pinocchio was his name and when we were in the middle of of a very boring conversation he shouted out loud ~ "Heroin dealers give people FREE DRUGS to get them addicted" ~ swim swears blind that his nose began to grow bigger?.
Don't tell tall tales i said to swim,somebodys nose can't grow.Well it did said swim and the man also said "Heroin dealers stand outside school gates and put pressure on small children to take their FREE Heroin"
Can you guess what happend next -----Pinocchios nose grew another 2 inches..
There are some bullshiters out there,Lol
Latters.....Q

[InstantKarma]

Lol swim wishes she had gone to one of THOSE schools

[dyingtomorrow]

Good ones so far.

Here's a big one that particularly annoys SWIM for personal reasons: "it's easy for heroin addicts to overdose."

For someone with more than like a $30 a day habit, which is almost all addicts, it's almost not even physically, logistically possible.

[iCeNugs]

Originally Posted by dyingtomorrow

Good ones so far.

Here's a big one that particularly annoys SWIM for personal reasons: "it's easy for heroin addicts to overdose."

For someone with more than like a $30 a day habit, which is almost all addicts, it's almost not even physically, logistically possible.

SWIM has to say that he thinks you are very wrong about this. SWIM was very close to death after his O/D. SWIM was found facedown on the bathroom floor of his work completly blue 1 1/2 hours after he passed out. SWIM did not try to O/D or load his rig with anymore than he normally did. it just seemed to happen out of nowhere.


also SWIMs not going to name all of them because there were a bunch n he dont feel like going back and finding all of them but there were some other posts on this thread about myths that were completly wrong and he cant believe they got rep for them. heroin is not a nice drug. it will knock you on your ass, then kick you while you're down.

the only myth is thinking you are in control

[Spucky]

Originally Posted by dyingtomorrow

If you have even a medium tolerance to heroin, it's almost impossible to even try and overdose on heroin alone without the help of alcohol or benzos.

Hmmm, sorry it`s me again, but this is wrong!
Maybe in swiny Case but here are many other swiny`s.

Swiny have to read here and maybe (?) he become more careful

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/loc...id=128&id=3893

[iCeNugs]

Originally Posted by dyingtomorrow

If you have even a medium tolerance to heroin, it's almost impossible to even try and overdose on heroin alone without the help of alcohol or benzos. It's only when you have a very low tolerance that there is a danger. A regular heroin user needs like 5 - 9x their normal dose to OD (on heroin alone). This simply is not logistically possible with needle size and fluid amounts if you are doing more than a tiny amount a day. Finally, the respiratory depressive effects of heroin and opiates diminish with constant use. The rare person that overdoses on just pure heroin was almost certainly not a regular user.

Trust me SWIM had anything but a low tolerance and did more than a tiny amount a day. also the physical effects such as respiratory depression do not majorly diminish as tolerance goes up. tolerance is your brain getting used to the drug. so when the user uses more and more to get the same "rush" it is harder and harder on your body. that is why statistically IV heroin users chances of ODing go up by alot the longer they use. i can see how it might be less possible for the user with some inhuman tolerance due to needle size but for the more than average user it is very possible. if SWIY thinks you need 5-9x the normal dose to OD then SWIY probably isnt doing that much at a time.

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Good Tipp for Harm Reduction!

[dyingtomorrow]

Originally Posted by iCeNugs

Trust me SWIM had anything but a low tolerance and did more than a tiny amount a day. also the physical effects such as respiratory depression do not majorly diminish as tolerance goes up. tolerance is your brain getting used to the drug. so when the user uses more and more to get the same "rush" it is harder and harder on your body. that is why statistically IV heroin users chances of ODing go up by alot the longer they use. i can see how it might be less possible for the user with some inhuman tolerance due to needle size but for the more than average user it is very possible. if SWIY thinks you need 5-9x the normal dose to OD then SWIY probably isnt doing that much at a time.

Almost everything in your reply is wrong.

First, heroin is not hard on your body. You can do it all your life, and as long as you drink enough water to prevent constipation, and rotate your veins properly, there is no significant damage from pure heroin. Especially not compared to the different kinds of foods and legal drugs out there.

I'm going to guess we have a semantics issue here, or that you are just totally speculating which seems to be a habit a lot of people on this forum have picked up. SWIM would call doing up to 2 grams a day a low tolerance. Mid tolerance would be like 2 grams to 6 grams. Not sure what level you are at, but pretty much everyone SWIM knows who got hooked ended up leveling out at about 4-5 grams a day around Chicago for as long as they could financially support it. Of the scores of heroin addicts SWIM has encountered, the only ODs he has ever heard of are people who either mix it with benzo/alcohol, do something like get out of jail and rehab and do too much, or do it very rarely and get a potent bag one day.

Another factor in that generalization is that most heroin addicts as they "mature" learn to keep their tolerance down to a very small amount and use time as their "high control" as opposed to quantity. Although being a daily heroin user, again, drastically reduces the respiratory depression issue, they still have an increased danger which combined with time could make it more dangerous.

Also, it's obvious that the longer you do heroin, the more likely you are to possibly OD. Just like the longer you drink, the more likely you are to end up asphyxiating on your own vomit. The longer you hang out in a Baghdad marketplace, the more likely you are to end up dead from a suicide-bomber. The longer you drive a car, the more likely you will die in a car accident. That's just simple probability and chance. It boggles me how many people here have no sense of relativity concerning the danger of things.


I don't know why the "anti-heroin" people here have chosen bizarre, misinformed, semi-fanatical ways to try and demonize it when there are a plethora of rational arguments, but none-the-less it's a fact that if you are a long term daily heroin user, the side effects such as respiratory depression and constipation decrease; for the exact same reason your "tolerance" goes up - your body is always working to reach homeostasis.


http://www.druglibrary.org/Schaffer/...es/cu/cu12.htm

Nor does a sudden increase in dosage produce significant side effects, much less death, among addicts. In the Philadelphia study, three addicts were given six, seven, and nine times their customary doses--- "mainlined." Far from causing death, the drug "resulted in insignificant changes in the pulse and respiration rates, electrocardiogram, chemical studies of the blood, and the behavior of the addict." 21 The addicts didn't even become drowsy. 22


SWIM can personally attest to the above. He tried killing himself with a shot with 9x his DAILY dose (not just regular shot dose), and it just knocked him out for about a day and he woke up drenched in sweat.

[jon-q]

Originally Posted by dyingtomorrow

The rare person that overdoses on just pure heroin was almost certainly not a regular user.

I understand that you are refering to pure Diacetylmorphine, but as this isn't what people tend buy on the streets here are a few points i think worth mentioning.

I think it is fair to say “The majority of Heroin addicts that “Go-over” generally have some other drug in their system”.
It’s also reasonably realistic to say, “An Heroin addict on a 30mg Diacetylmorphine maintenance dose, may take a 200mg Diacetylmorphine dose and survive”.

However I do think we need to be very careful when we start claiming “Heroin addicts can take 6-9 times their normal dose of Heroin without any risk of Overdosing.


Here is where I think the waters start getting a tad clouded.
“Maintenance dose” constitutes the amount of drug required to prevent the onset of withdrawals, somebody’s “Normal dose” may well be the same amount which staves off withdrawals or it could be 2-3-4 times greater than this.
Another element that is of concern is purity, actually I should put this one in as a myth, peeps often claim purity levels of 80-90% regularly appear on the streets, this is bullshit, in 2003 the average street bag (1-10g) of Heroin in America was around 30-40%, in the UK purity levels were slightly lower <30%.
One should also remember street Heroin is sometimes cut with barbiturates, tranquillisers or varyingly other compounds that could intensify the sedative effects of Heroin.

The reason I post these little nuggets of info is to show you how easily an overdose can happen:
Lets say purity level is 30%, an Heroin addicts maintenance dose is 150mg(=45mg pure H) and his normal dose of 300mg is needed to achieve a good nod (=90mg pure H), for 3 days purity levels drop to 20%, so he now needs to increase dosage to 450mg to achieve the same effect, on the 4th day a rare batch of 80% pure H hits town and the addict slams 450mg thinking it's the same strength as yesterday. This would = 360mg pure Heroin.
Now this is 8 times MD and 4 times the “Normal dose” this could quite possibly send em over, of course they may not OD but if they had taken 5-6-7 times this amount I think the chances are they would do.
Of course sense tell one to test for purity, but when somebody’s clucking sense somehow goes out the window.

I’m not posting this to try to be clever Dyingtomorrow I just want other peeps to see how easily overdoses can happen, if some noob gets it into their head overdosing is practically impossible..well you get the idea.
In medical settings users probably can withstand 6-7-8-9 multiple times their Maintenance dose, but we both know or at least Swiq knows with H on the street peeps can never be over careful.
Q

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You make a very, very good point here and users should recognize this about the risk of OD

[dyingtomorrow]

Thanks jon-q.

SWIM has been taking issue with this because he's noticed an influx of people on this forum who seem to be over-exaggerating a lot of the dangers of heroin BECAUSE they want to demonize it, not because they are trying to share information. It seems like it is just the Heroin Forum on this site which is filled with these people just constantly bashing heroin, which is kind of strange.

SWIM's original point was that it is a lot harder for your average long term dope addict to accidentally overdose on street heroin, than illogical anti-drug crusaders constantly try and paint it.

Someone who is not a daily user is at an appreciable risk for a heroin overdose. Someone with a small tolerance is at a low, but present, risk for an overdose. Someone shooting "$100" worth of Generic Average Street Heroin X, who has been doing it for at least a year and knows all the safety info, is more in danger from bizarre random accidents (like getting hit by an out of control bicyclist) than from shooting heroin.

It is pretty easy to see some of the trends where the danger beings to drop off. For instance, as I said before, in the U.S., the vast vast majority of junkies use 1 CC needles, which is the largest you can buy. At a certain point in tolerance, which is probably far below an "average" junkies tolerance, you simply can't fit enough powder to OD into 1 CC of water and still have it remain a shootable liquid.

SWIM would also like to emphasize another major factor which almost completely diminishes the OD danger for people with a medium-high tolerance. We can first set aside the simple fact that prolonged use of heroin, even low amounts, eventually results in a major mitigation of respiratory depression effects (and constipation as well); which is, again, why most ODs come from non-consistent users, and drug cocktails, not pure heroin use. Instead, consider the following alone:

Lets quickly compare someone whose regular dose is a "1 bag" shot (1 Bagger), with someone who needs a 4 bag shot (4 Bagger) to get high. Now lets say the 1 Bagger accidentally/purposely does another 1 bag equivalent of heroin (which could happen for a number of reasons; e.g. a "hotspot" in his dope that is the equivalent of a whole extra bag, or just not noticing the amount of powder). He has just now done twice the amount of heroin his body is used to.

In contrast, that "extra bag equivalent (however it happens)" for the 4 Bagger is only a 25% increase. Get it?

Lets take flooding as an example. Think of how the government/businesses/insurance companies generally keep records of 10 year, 50 year, 100 year flood plains and water mark averages, for safety and economic reasons. Well, similarly, quality levels fluctuate in street heroin, and the longer period of time you take, the more likely the quality will spike up to "100 year flood plain height" levels. Someone with a low tolerance or who hasn't been doing it long is kind of like the guy who is built in the 10 year flood zone; compared to a regular daily addict with an average tolerance level, who has, in this analogy, built safely beyond even the 100 year flood plain.



Finally, to revisit my original issue, I think a sort of cultural perversion has taken place on the Heroin forum in the past month or so. A number of people seem to have completely lost any concept of relativity or perspective when it comes to some of the ancillary dangers of heroin use. If any of these people who go around constantly exaggerating and speculating about various minuscule and easily avoidable heroin "dangers" were to post in their same thought process and measure in the Alcohol Forum - they'd be neg repping anyone who even talked about drinking more than 1 beer in a night, because of the IMMEDIATE AND 110% PROXIMATE DANGERS OF ALCOHOL OVERDOSE, DRINKING AND DRIVING (which is inherently tied in to alcohol consumption and completely unavoidable by anyone), AND IMMINENT HEART FAILURE FROM MORBID OBESITY!

[dyingtomorrow]

Oh, and here's another one:

Heroin withdrawal is "like having the flu."

Fuck - I don't even know what to say to that bullshit.

[stephy171072]

Originally Posted by dyingtomorrow

Oh, and here's another one:

Heroin withdrawal is "like having the flu."

Fuck - I don't even know what to say to that bullshit.

Oh yeah Swim hates that one! Swim gets so angry when people who have never been through it go about saying things like 'its like having the flu' or 'it can't be that bad'

[beena]

Originally Posted by stephy171072

Oh yeah Swim hates that one! Swim gets so angry when people who have never been through it go about saying things like 'its like having the flu' or 'it can't be that bad'

SWIM too!!! And what's worse is when you genuinely have the flu but everybody just gives you a look as if to say 'oh yeah, right, like you've got the flu - more like withdrawal'. As if a user wouldn't know the difference.
SWIM went cold turkey over Christmas and suffered terribly with the un-flu like symptoms of heroin withdrawal. Got over that and was a bit chuffed with herself for doing so (not afraid to admit that), then went to see a relative who had a bad cold and SWIM caught that - spent the next few days with a cold and a head virus but no-one would believe her and no-one would let her touch the pain meds either cos they thought she was just trying to get high - she only wanted a lemsip for fucks sake! - a couple of paracetamol would've sufficed. Then, about ten days later SWIM caught another cold and despite having got over the worst of the withdrawal and been clean for a good couple of weeks everybody still thought she had withdrawal - what? A withdrawal relapse?
SWIM was getting a tad pissed off with the way everybodies eyes fell to the floor as she entered the room sniffing into her handkerchief and coughing her lungs up. Then, when she was cuddled up on the sofa watching telly she could feel all the eyes in the room trained on her, obviously examining her for signs of withdrawal. Still, s'ppose she shouldn't complain: at least she knows she's got a good family and a lot of people who care about her. She just wishes they would take her word for it when she says she's caught a common-cold!

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True. Also found quite amusing.

[stephy171072]

Originally Posted by beena

SWIM too!!! And what's worse is when you genuinely have the flu but everybody just gives you a look as if to say 'oh yeah, right, like you've got the flu - more like withdrawal'. As if a user wouldn't know the difference.
SWIM went cold turkey over Christmas and suffered terribly with the un-flu like symptoms of heroin withdrawal. Got over that and was a bit chuffed with herself for doing so (not afraid to admit that), then went to see a relative who had a bad cold and SWIM caught that - spent the next few days with a cold and a head virus but no-one would believe her and no-one would let her touch the pain meds either cos they thought she was just trying to get high - she only wanted a lemsip for fucks sake! - a couple of paracetamol would've sufficed. Then, about ten days later SWIM caught another cold and despite having got over the worst of the withdrawal and been clean for a good couple of weeks everybody still thought she had withdrawal - what? A withdrawal relapse?
SWIM was getting a tad pissed off with the way everybodies eyes fell to the floor as she entered the room sniffing into her handkerchief and coughing her lungs up. Then, when she was cuddled up on the sofa watching telly she could feel all the eyes in the room trained on her, obviously examining her for signs of withdrawal. Still, s'ppose she shouldn't complain: at least she knows she's got a good family and a lot of people who care about her. She just wishes they would take her word for it when she says she's caught a common-cold!

Haha aww poor swiy Swim can imagin how frustrating that would feel. Swim has also gone through that once and got quite mad at no one beliving her but at least swim managed to get some lem sip! lol

[Junkhead23]

Also dealers putting glass in their shit now come on they dont want to kill their customers thats stupid

[engagenirvana]

Some people say that you become unable to funtion at all when you are doped up on heroin. Complete lie. My friend is doped up right as I am typing this and he can still cognitivly think and converse the same as when he is not doped up. You can still function perfectly fine on it. It might be harder to think but you can still do it no problem. Unless you take a huge dose but he took about .3 grams and my friends fine.

[dyingtomorrow]

I heard a new one recently:

The reason you drool so much in withdrawals is because that is your body getting rid of the excess water from all the shooting up. I didn't argue it with her, but highly highly doubt it.

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Cause its all relevant, insightful, and true.

[drug-bot]

Originally Posted by dyingtomorrow

I heard a new one recently:

The reason you drool so much in withdrawals is because that is your body getting rid of the excess water from all the shooting up. I didn't argue it with her, but highly highly doubt it.

lol. how much water does whoever said that think a person uses to shoot up, the most swim and his friends use is like 30-60cc's (depending of course on how much dope is being shot).

[msmogadon]

Some ignorant individuals think that heroin users are using in order to get high everyday and fuck everything else. The reality is its done to stop the most undescribable mental and physical torture and to be able to function for the sake of kids, family, work etc. They don't want to sell every last posetion they own just "to get high". Its an addiction and most "smackheads"would do anything the get off the shit

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you speak the truth

[msmogadon]

Originally Posted by drug-bot

lol. how much water does whoever said that think a person uses to shoot up, the most swim and his friends use is like 30-60cc's (depending of course on how much dope is being shot).

This is more likely to be from the Locus Coeruleus stimulating the receptors to produce more non adrenrenaline which causes SWIYs body to producethe production of tears and salava and other things such as diahorrea

[isolampg]

That heroin is the most damaging drug on earth.swim actually does not agree. swim believes it is up there with the meth and crack but not number one. The damage it causes is great, yes but swim has seen people do worse things for other drugs.

[msmogadon]

Oh YEAH! swim remembered the copper that attended at the weekend at my BF's OD. He looked aroung presumed that SWIM had just started using. Saying "swiys got a nice house here. CARRY ON AND SWIY WILL LOOSE IT ALL (SWIM'S BEEN HERE 8 YEARS BY THE WAY) AS if all smackheads live on a pish stained matress in the corner.
That gets SWIMS fucking goat. Just because SWIM is an opiate user dosn't mean she can't be a tidy person with an education and a beautiful home - cunts. Infract me if you want I like that swear word lol