Injecting - Pulse in veins??

[Junkhead23]

SWIM keeps hearing a lot of SWIMMERS on here saying that you can feel a pulse in your veins. Now I am no doctor but I am 99% certain that veins do not have a pulse!! Arteries are the things that pulse not veins. It seems to me that quite a few SWIMMERS are giving newbies dangerous advice by talking of a pulse in veins. This could lead to someone injecting into an artery and that could lead to a loss of limb.

Now SWIM is not saying that he could be wrong so if others could please clarify whether this is true or not SWIM would be grateful. At every exchange SWIM has been to they have insisted that if SWIY feel a pulse do not inject there!!!

[mickey_bee]

Yeah veins do not have a pulse, the blood is travelling back to the heart in veins, and this, coupled with the fact it is not under anything like the pressure of blood in arteries, (which is pumped away from the heart), means there is no pulse.

If you can feel a pulse DO NOT SHOOT!!!! Sometimes arteries can be where you don't expect em......the thumb for example.......don't do it!!!!!

As I posted just last week, a friend of swims nearly lost a leg through shooting into an artery. He still can't walk un-aided, and he got an ambulance straight away.

[Solinari]

Definitely not a pulse from a vein, certainly not one that is palpable. The only pulse that is palpable is one from an artery. If someone thinks they can feel a pulse in a vein then they are probably using there thumb which does have a palpable pulse, that is the reason the index and middle finger is used for feeling a pulse at a site where an artery is close to the surface.

[Jatelka]

Christ on a Bike! NO NO NO!

Sorry for shouting, but this cannot be emphasised enough. Even though it's been said several times already. If you feel a pulse you do NOT stick a needle into it!

Arteries pulse, veins do not. If there is any doubt at all then DO NOT PASS GO.

Similarly, if one hits what they think is a vein, and the blood is bright red, and comes into the syringe under pressure, then it's not a vein, it's an artery. Note also that hitting an artery is altogether more painful (or so the flamingo is told)

[fnord]

Originally Posted by Jatelka

Christ on a Bike! NO NO NO!

Sorry for shouting, but this cannot be emphasised enough. Even though it's been said several times already. If you feel a pulse you do NOT stick a needle into it!

Arteries pulse, veins do not. If there is any doubt at all then DO NOT PASS GO.

Similarly, if one hits what they think is a vein, and the blood is bright red, and comes into the syringe under pressure, then it's not a vein, it's an artery. Note also that hitting an artery is altogether more painful (or so the flamingo is told)

What dangers are involved besides the pain?

[Jatelka]

Originally Posted by fnord

What dangers are involved besides the pain?

Losing a limb

[RaverHippie]

Originally Posted by fnord

What dangers are involved besides the pain?

(not sure how much of this info is already known, figured it could go well in this thread regardless)
1. When a vein is punctured, pressure on the wound will stop the bleeding and eventually the wound will heal itself. Not so with an artery. Since the blood is under pressure already, applying pressure alone won't necessarily be enough to stave off the bleeding. Uncontrolled bleeding can result along with all the effects of uncontrolled rapid blood loss. Could SWIY imagine someone feeling the rush from ketamine or heroin, being too high to fully be aware enough to react to a rapidly bleeding spot?

2. If one were shooting a relatively impure drug into an artery, I'd imagine that any undissolved cut/ large impurities could easily get lodged in the capillary beds, aka arteries and veins that are only the diameter of one red blood cell. Since this tiny network of thin blood vessels is the endpoint of arteries it could be postulated that impure drugs could clog capillary beds, effectively cutting off the blood supply to a local area. How large of an area wouldn't even be able to be anticipated because of how much branching there is in the circulatory system This could very well be what Jatelka was referring to, it's just what I'm assuming with a slight education on anatomy.

Also the pain mentioned by Jatelka is likely due to the fact that arteries on average are I believe atleast 4 times thicker than veins due to the pressure under which the blood flows.

[teddybearpicnics]

swim might be uninformed in this area...but why is there a pulse in the area of the most common shot spot, the break in the arm...unless swim is crazy, who knows.
.teddy

[Jatelka]

Apologies, and thanks for the feedback, my previous post in this thread was spectacularly unhelpful

Now I have more time...

Intra-arterial injection can cause numerous problems:

Interruption of blood supply, either via vaso-spasm or blood clot formation leading to tissue ischaemia (short of oxygen). If the blood supply is not restored this can lead to gangrene and loss of the hand/foot/arm/leg etc

Local Necrosis of skin, increasing the risk of breakdown and infection

Aneurysm formation, leading to risk of spontaneous rupture, with associated risks of blood loss

Introduction of infection, with potential for overwhelming sepsis. Possibly also infective emboli flying off and causing not only distant abscess but acute ischaemia

Intraarterial injections have a higher rate of oedema formation, which can cause problems with mobility, or, more seriously compartment syndromes, reducing blood supply to the downstream tissues, which may lead to ischaemia and tissue necrosis

Drugs may also have a directly toxic effect on the lining of arteries

There is also the "Venous constriction theory". After IA injection there are compensatory changes in the venous system (mainly via veno-spasm). As a result, blood returning from the downstream area is slowed, and there is an increased risk of venous thrombosis. Damage is also caused by engorgement of the down stream part leading to pressure effects

I've uploaded a file here...

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/loc...id=153&id=6293

Which has some pretty grim pictures

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thanks for the more detailed reply!