Effects - Looking for a natural cure for social anxiety

[shatteredparadigm]

SWIM suffers from social anxiety. SWIM has tried benzos and they make him tired and depressed. SWIM has an inverse reaction to most SSRIs and they cause him to become very anxious. SWIM is currently on venlafaxine hydrochloride which is the only one that remotely works. SWIM does take some Alprazolam to help him unwind at night and sleep.

SWIM is currently trying Kava Kava and Kratom (not simultaneously) to see if there they will help. Are there any other suggestions out there?

I really appreciate the intelligent people on this forum. Any input will be carefully considered.

shatteredparadigm added 2 Minutes and 47 Seconds later...

btw SWIM has searched the forum extensively and has found some useful information regarding the subject, swim would just like to have some more direct information and responses of personal experiences and stacks SWIYs use.

[RaverHippie]

Valerian is known to be relaxing in more of a sedative way but it may be worth pursuing.

Light doses of diphenhydramine >100mg have been known to give my raver friend a nice body high that always calmed him down, I'm not sure how well a purely physical feeling could help with a mental state such as the one you described but it wouldn't hurt given its cheap price and availability.

If sleep is hard to find combining valerian and melatonin would definitely put one to sleep no problem.

[PsychoActivist]

Well SWIY has already mentioned Kava. Valerian Root is also an anxiolytic and mild sedative. Passion Flower is another one. Even Chamomile tea. SWIY may also want to look into GABA supplements. They work very well for SWIM. GABA is a natural chemical we have in our bodies. The mechanism of action for Benzo's are is that they stimulate GABA receptors and release more of the chemical. Keep in mind though, taking GABA supplements will not get you high or even give you a buzz. None of the substances I have mentioned in this post will (with the exception of Kava) but they will provide anxiolytic effects as well as mild sedation.

You could also look into Kanna (Sceletium Tortuosum). It is available through some online vendors. It acts more as an SSRI but it is very different than they synthetic SSRI's. For SWIM it does not have all the negative side effects such as the jitteryness, irritability, etc. and it can be an intoxicant producing some mild euphoria. It has been known to affect some people differently than others though. Some enjoy it and some don't like it all. Others claim it has no affect. SWIM knows for a fact it definitely has it's own effects far from placebo and he is one who enjoys it.

Reputation Comments on this post:

thanks, quite a comprehensive overview, very useful

[shatteredparadigm]

Originally Posted by PsychoActivist

You could also look into Kanna (Sceletium Tortuosum). It is available through some online vendors. It acts more as an SSRI but it is very different than they synthetic SSRI's. For SWIM it does not have all the negative side effects such as the jitteryness, irritability, etc. and it can be an intoxicant producing some mild euphoria. It has been known to affect some people differently than others though. Some enjoy it and some don't like it all. Others claim it has no affect. SWIM knows for a fact it definitely has it's own effects far from placebo and he is one who enjoys it.

Thanks for the info. SWIM is assuming he'd have to quit Effexor to avoid doubling up on SSRIs and getting serotonin syndrome. SWIM will definitely look into it.

[Burnt]

I will also second the Kanna recomendation. Its a very interesting plant with very nice effects. Get off all that other crap they are putting you on that is most likely in the long term only going to make your problems worse.

[shatteredparadigm]

SWIM is really grateful for the information the posters have given to him. Will start looking into it more.

Social anxiety seems to SWIM to be drastically different than normal anxiety. Are there any herbs that make SWIY "chatty" and upbeat rather than calm? That's really what SWIM is looking for.

The best SWIM has ever felt was when taking Ritalin. SWIM abused it and can't take it anymore. Very social and loved talking with people. SWIM is sure cocaine would do the same but would also ruin his life. Any ideas?

[Bajeda]

It sounds like swiy is looking more for stimulants than anxiolytics, at least from the above post.

Catha Edulis (Khat / Qat) is known for inducing loquacity and is good in social settings, but it is unfortunately illegal in the United States.

Coca leaves may also have a similar - albeit milder - effect on sociability, but again, legal issues within the US.

Perhaps swiy should look for more stimulating substances then if he thinks it may work better for his purposes. Betel Nut and Yerba Mate come to mind, but they certainly aren't the most potent stimulants. Yohimbe has stimulating and aphrodisiac effects, but it appears to have MAOI properties so one should be wary of what other substances they are taking when trying it. The energy drink Redline - which containes yohimbine amongst other active ingredients - may be worth looking at. Swiy also may want to take a look at the nootropics forum to see if anything looks promising there.

How did the Kava and Kratom work for swiy so far?

[shatteredparadigm]

Originally Posted by Bajeda

It sounds like swiy is looking more for stimulants than anxiolytics, at least from the above post.

Perhaps swiy should look for more stimulating substances then if he thinks it may work better for his purposes. Betel Nut and Yerba Mate come to mind, but they certainly aren't the most potent stimulants. Yohimbe has stimulating and aphrodisiac effects, but it appears to have MAOI properties so one should be wary of what other substances they are taking when trying it.

How did the Kava and Kratom work for swiy so far?

Thanks for the advice, and yeah you are being pretty perceptive. It's a delicate line, ever since SWIM OD'd on Adderall, uppers can give SWIM panic attacks. Ritalin never did, no matter how much SWIM took (and SWIM took A LOT). SWIM is trying very hard not to become an addict since it really screwed up his life and he's prone to addiction due to his depression.

Kratom seemed nice, felt a little more social and happy. The liquid extract wasn't that potent and SWIM is going with the advice of the other posters and getting ground leaves from several venders. A little worried, because SWIM can see how it can be habit forming.

Kava Kava was OK. Didn't feel social but didn't exaserbate SWIM's depression like Benzos do. SWIM's pharmacoligist friend is a little concerned about SWIM taking it with Effexor, Xanax or much else since it inhibits an important enzyme in the liver that can cause a build up of other drugs (even if they aren't taken at the same time). He recommends brigning all of SWIM's drugs/supplements to a clinical pharmacist (one at a doctor's office) to ensure no bad interactions.

Thanks for your advice! I'm carefully reading everyone's post. I really appreciate your input in this!

shatteredparadigm added 5 Minutes and 2 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by Bajeda

Swiy also may want to take a look at the nootropics forum to see if anything looks promising there.

Good call, and SWIM is one step ahead of you! SWIM has recieved a shipment of Piracetam and Oxiracetam. Wish SWIM could find Aniracetam since it is supposed to have anxiolitic properties, but it seems sold out everywhere SWIM looks.

SWIM was also considering research chemicals, but they really kinda scare him.

[tryptamaster]

swim has social anxiety ocd an general anxiety disorder. he has tried alot of the formentioned remedies and finds benzos help him but thier aid wears of quick...kava didnt really help but to be fair he hasnt really had acess to what hed consider true kava. kratom seemed beter for a buzz and less for anxiety...maybe a lower dose would be more usuful.his odl anti depressant-wellbutrin (buprion) did not help watsoever and in fact made it worse. another problem witht he benzos is doctors CONSTANTLY trying to wean swim off and swithch to a ssri..swim undertantds the addictive nature of benzos but swim is in a situation where all his meds are regulated so the doctor knows he isnt eating it twice as fast as possible...and if withdrawl is the issue alcohol is perfectly legal and its withdrawl is hellish too...so wat is it with the docs and tryin to get people off benzos and on ssri?

[shatteredparadigm]

Originally Posted by tryptamaster

doctors CONSTANTLY trying to wean swim off and swithch to a ssri..swim undertantds the addictive nature of benzos but swim is in a situation where all his meds are regulated so the doctor knows he isnt eating it twice as fast as possible...

SWIM thinks SWIY should just look for another doctor, probably an older one since they were around during the benzo craze and trust the chemical more than the younger doctors.

The abuse potential really is the primary reason. SWIY could take much more than your daily dose and end up screwed at the end of the month. Doctors often hear excuses of "lost pills down the sink", "washed pill case in with clothes" etc.

The probability of SWIY ODing and dying from Benzos is much higher than SSRIs for the simple reason that SSRIs have no recreational value.

[tryptamaster]

yea swms doc is like...early 30's so yea she a lil young...shes part of the ssri generation! and swim has never asked to up his doseage or tried to refill earlier than he should have. so he thinks shes being little unreasoanble....given she does know swims past substance abuse history...lol.

[shatteredparadigm]

Originally Posted by Bajeda

Catha Edulis (Khat / Qat) is known for inducing loquacity and is good in social settings, but it is unfortunately illegal in the United States.

This makes swim very sad... After reading about it the plant seemed perfect.

khat creates a pleasuring effect to the same degree as ecstasy. Individuals become very talkative under the influence of the drug

Considering how "safe" it is and the relatively low level of physical dependance it's so stupid it was banned here. How hard/risky would it be for SWIM to import a plant or extract?

[tryptamaster]

isnt kat to methcathinone what coca leaves are to cocaine? and id say importing it would be quite risky and an extract would basically be methchinone (also illegal) but is an easy otc synth but it can be addictive making it most likely NOT a good soltuion to ur anxeity.

[shatteredparadigm]

Originally Posted by tryptamaster

isnt kat to methcathinone what coca leaves are to cocaine? and id say importing it would be quite risky and an extract would basically be methchinone (also illegal) but is an easy otc synth but it can be addictive making it most likely NOT a good soltuion to ur anxeity.

Thanks for your input and concern. This is why SWIM loves this forum. SWIMS body reacts very strangely to drugs... and I'm looking for something that will ease my social anxiety/make me more outgoing and want to be with people, not for general anxiety. SWIM was actually given a shot of pure adrenalyn and my heart rate and blood pressure lowered. The nurses and doctors couldn't figure it out. With that said, after abusing prescription amphetimines they do make me prone to panic attacks, so SWIM can't take even something like ephedrine. SWIM is going to have to research kat very carefully but the positive affects and relatively low addictive potential (much lower than alcohol and benzos) make it seem like a nice plant to try.

[tryptamaster]

yea in its natural form it is very safe much liek coca leaves. tis jsut when extracted and cncentrated to its dangers really become present.

[Lou1024]

How hard/risky would it be for SWIM to import a plant or extract?

Swiy can legally buy seeds online and grow a plant.

[Synesthesiac]

Originally Posted by Bajeda

The energy drink Redline - which containes yohimbine amongst other active ingredients - may be worth looking at.

Looks interesting,

The beverage includes anhydrous caffeine, evodiamine, tyrosine, yerba mate extract, green tea extract, 5-HTP, vinpocetine, and Yohimbine.

swim already uses 5-htp and green tea, so this may be a good substitute as it adds some slight nootropic and aphrodisiac effects aswell, although swims aware that they will not be very strong effects with the small amounts in question. Oh, and swim uses caffeine too, but thats not a drug according to swims mom.

Synesthesiac added 137 Minutes and 21 Seconds later...

Found this which should be relevant: Nervine Herbs for Treating Anxiety Very useful table on page two, including the other effects these products are often sold for, and gives a good review of the reliable literature on natural Nervine's ("Nervines are those medicines that have a soothing influence, and quiet the nerves without destroying their sensibility.") So far passionflower gets my vote. But I havent tried it.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good find with the Passiflora upload!

[shatteredparadigm]

Originally Posted by Synesthesiac

Found this which should be relevant: Nervine Herbs for Treating Anxiety Very useful table on page two, including the other effects these products are often sold for, and gives a good review of the reliable literature on natural Nervine's ("Nervines are those medicines that have a soothing influence, and quiet the nerves without destroying their sensibility.") So far passionflower gets my vote. But I havent tried it.

That was an excellent article, and the graph was clear and included much information. The second graph also detailed possible drug interactions. Reading the article, I'm not sure if any of them are potent enough to help SWIM now but definitely an excellent contribution to the discussion. Thanks!

[beena]

St. John's Wort is s'pposed to be a herbal form of prozac and Kava Kava is s'pposed to be a herbal form of valium. SWIY should always tell your doctor though if SWIY is taking any other prescribed medicines because although they may be herbal tablets, they can still interfere with other medicines.

[Felix Guattari]

Its herbal-ness is questionable, but the synthesis of cathinone (the active in qat) is pretty damned easy, as well as somewhat healthier than amphetamine. Even the n-methyl substitute is relatively benign in comparison to certain other homologues.

[shatteredparadigm]

Originally Posted by Felix Guattari

Its herbal-ness is questionable, but the synthesis of cathinone (the active in qat) is pretty damned easy, as well as somewhat healthier than amphetamine. Even the n-methyl substitute is relatively benign in comparison to certain other homologues.

Thanks! Could SWIY point me to a good thread? SWIM did some searches on the site and there seemed to be quite a few threads where the poster thought they were making one thing and others argued they were making something else.

Is cathinone in any prescription drugs? SWIM has been diagnosed with ADD so getting those types of substances hasn't been difficult. SWIM is worried about the addiction/abuse potential since he has been prone to it in the past, which is why Khat seeemed so promising (see above diagram). Thanks again!

shatteredparadigm added 6 Minutes and 42 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by beena

St. John's Wort is s'pposed to be a herbal form of prozac and Kava Kava is s'pposed to be a herbal form of valium. SWIY should always tell your doctor though if SWIY is taking any other prescribed medicines because although they may be herbal tablets, they can still interfere with other medicines.

SWIM has read numerous research articles several years back that found St. John's Wort no better than placebo. If it works for SWIY than great! SWIM has also tried SAMe and found little to no effects.

SWIM recommends goinng to a clinical pharmacist. Their job is to ensure no bad drug interactions, both short and long term. In slang it's called a "brown bag" session where you bring in all your drugs and supplements and they analyze everything. Doctors can do this too, it's just the clinical pharmacists do it more often and their entire job revolves around drugs.. where doctors have many other things to do too and may not be as knowledgable. That's what SWIM has heard anyway. SWIM plans on doing one, but thanks for your concern!

[Cuberun]

Does valerian root really have any effect? I bought valerian root at the grocery store. Box said "for light insomnia" and "mild anxiety". I bought it on impulse, damn expensive. The tablets smell and taste horribly. Probably one of the worst smells I can imagine
I have been taking maximum dose but im really not sure if it's just placeboing me. I do seem to sleep more heavily, don't wake up as often. More importantly, is it really helpful against anxiety?

[beena]

Oh, just in reply to shatteredparadigm, SWIM personally has never used any herbal remedies such as St. John's Wort or Kava Kava but she was just imparting her knowledge that the first was supposed to be like a herbal prozac and the latter a herbal valium: this information was obtained in a health-store where SWIM asked some time ago about this very topic, ie herbal remedies for anxiety. She never got around to trying them though as she began using opiates such as tramadol and morphine and has never looked back as they work wonders for her problems.
Of course, SWIM is not advocating that others follow her lead but there are many options available and all should be considered SWIM feels.
SWIM doesn't reckon these herbal remedies are much cop cos SWIM has learned that remedies that do work tend to be either made illegal or labelled controlled drugs. The government is not keen to help us.

[Leonida]

Hi. SWIM wonders if OP is still looking for natural remedies for social anxiety. SWIM too suffers and is currently researching Kava.

A couple of alternatives not seen mentioned here are Phenibut and Theanine. SWIM has no experience with Theanine but has read enough personal experience to feel that it may be worth a try. Phenibut, on the other hand, is definitely worth looking into as almost every personal experience posted publicly has raved about it, including SWIM herself. The only down side is Phenibut has high tolerance and withdrawal issues, so can not really be used on a daily basis.

These really belong in the Nootropics sections but SWIM thought she'd throw it out here for SWIY's benefit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenibut

Have a great day!

[Synesthesiac]

Originally Posted by Leonida

Hi. SWIM wonders if OP is still looking for natural remedies for social anxiety. SWIM too suffers and is currently researching Kava.

Swim thinks kava works great, but watch out for skin conditions on it. Swim finds that if he usues it daily his hands become dry and his skin feels tight within minutes of ingesting it, nothing serious but something to take note of no doubt. There are reports of kava causing skin conditions in chronic users, these substances have not been researched too much so tread carefully.