Does this count as Addiction? And if so...when is it truly a bad thing?

[SWIMming]

A friend of mine is really just looking for opinions on this issue, and doesn't fully see any of it as a problem at this point, but he is curious about anonomous opinions on the situation.

This friend will openly confirm that he IS addicted to two specific substances, both of which are legal - those being nicotine and caffeine. He also admits he is naturally predisposed to stimulant addiction (based on family history, and a period of significant overuse of prescription amphetamine, where he was by all accounts, his own included, damned near an addict, until he willing dropped his rather signficant monthly prescription, out of self interest), as well as possibly the over use of downers (opiates as far as euphoria induction goes, others in order to aid him in his biggest psychological curse - falling asleep (irregardless of chemical condition, he has MAJOR sleep issues, specifically with actually falling asleep).

Anyway - here's the main question/situation this friend would like opinions on -

While he isn't (at this time, and in his, or his social circles, which includes users, non-users, and ex-users) addicted to any specific substance (other than nicotine and caffiene, as mentioned previously) he does have a SIGNIFICANT tendency to overuse psychotropics in general. This has led to some of his associates commenting on this general overuse, and him contemplating whether this constituted some form of addiction to mental alteration.

His use doesn't negatively impact his (current) lifestyle - his friends know, he is gainfully employed, and it doesn't affect his work life, and he is currently taking college classes (underperforming a bit, but thats due to personal issues, not the chemicals, though they assumeably don't help), and he is on very good terms with his family.

However, he tends to use various substances VERY regularily (not daily, but often damned close). He rotates the substances to avoid addiction, and puts the substances he's self identified as potentially significant problems into LONG rotations (such as nasal cocaine, amphetamine, and painkillers) and totally abstains from the substances that he knows would be immediate problems (Meth, any other admin method of cocaine, and the extreme end of the the opiate family).

However, he tends to feel bored when he has nothing, and definitely craves alteration of mood and mind - not as an escape, but as an improvement generally. When he abstains from his preferentially substances (stims, opiates, and psychedelics) he tends to fill the gaps with substances he has minimal liking for, such as booze, marijuana, or DXM.

Again, not everyday, but probably at LEAST 3/7 days is spent with SOMETHING significantly psychotropic in his system (including booze or pot), often closer to 5/7 days.

Anyways, this friend apologizes for the rambling, he dictated his questions/situation on one of his stimulant days.

He's curious to hear feedback on the situation.

[PsychoActivist]

SWIM believes that if one gets cravings or feels bored or feels bad at all in general when they are sober, then they have most likely developed a mental addiction. If one rotates the substances and doesn't use one particular substance daily, then they are most likely not physically addicted.

Mental addiction can be kind of hard to define. I mean, its tough to decide where the line is drawn. It is really up to oneself to decide whether they are mentally addicted or not.

What SWIM uses to define addiction (this works for both mental and physical) is when he begins using a substance not so much to feel good anymore, but rather so that he doesn't feel bad. When one finds themselves doing this, it should be a good indicator to slow down and/or take a break for a little bit. The longer one keeps using substances to keep themselves from feeling bad, the more dependant they will become so keep that in mind.

Also, one should keep in mind that just because they have their life in order and can keep their priorities straight, it is still very possible for them to be addicted. SWIM has a good job and he works hard, he has never called out, never shows up late, but he is very addicted to poppy pods.

Hope this helps.

[SWIMming]

This friend appreciates the response SWI PA.

This friend says that he doesn't really feel BAD when he is not intoxicated/altered, but rather thinks about how he could feel better. One of the more interesting observations is that he feels that he is generally happier/more upbeat/more positive than most of the people (based on the people he knows, again, users, ex users, and complete non-users, as those definitions are pertinant to this issue).

He is a generally happy, and somewhat 'aloof'/extremely laid back, but thinks quite a bit about improving how he feels (not to stop feeling bad, or even to stop feeling 'better than neutral', just to feel better).

The only times he things about using to stop from feeling 'bad' is when he contemplates using to make hangovers/crashes/comedowns better, although he tends to 'put up with' those situations, knowing they are self inflicted. If he does choose to medicate, he does so in the least 'self-destructive cycle' inducing manner possible (example - during a cocaine crash, once done using, he won't opt for the cycle of more coke, but rather an effective, and preferably non-euphoric sleep inducing 'medicine').

The only true categorized (in this friends opinion) overuse/dependence is in the realm of pseudo sleep aids, which is a rotation of natural, exhaustion induced sleep (when possible), alcohol, pot (one of the more effective/refreshing sleep aids, even though this friend doesn't really love the actual 'drug' effects anymore), ambien, opiates (a rarity, and more for pleasure, with ease at sleeping as a nice by product), or occasionally benzo's (another rarity, more for negating the non-sleepy effects of stims or bad trips).

He is certain he does not have any *chemical dependencies* (other than nicotine/caffeine) and does not suffer withdrawals (inless you count cravings, and not in the shaky, debilitating sense, but more in the minor to medium thought preoccupation/fantasies of obtaining/using (insert substance of choice here).

He does not consider him 'addicted' to any particular substance/category, but acknowledges that he does have a tendency to overuse (but not to true extremes) certain substances when availible (stimulants/opiates in general), and thinks about those more than the others. He also gets the occasional heavy 'urge' or 'drive' to obtain psychedelics for him to use, though he considers this to be generally useful, and uses them in what he considers to be a therapeutic manner.

However, he DOES consider himself to have a mental 'addiction' (depending on the definition used) to psychoactive use in general, with specific preferences, but the addiction is really applied to 'blanket use' of a range of substances. He does actively try to maintain a balance to avoid substance-specific 'addiction'.

He does not see this as particularily harmful to his existence, his comfort, or his lifestyle (physical health, mental heatlh, financial responsibilities/comfort, or interpersonal relationships), however he does know that is is less than healthy, and acknowledges that is does most likely have some negative impact at times (again, health in terms of of a range of meanings).

Anyway, he seems to have gotten lost in his ramblings again, and hopes that what he dictated might have added a bit more perspective.

He Says that he welcomes further commentary and opinions!

SWIMming added 9 Minutes and 32 Seconds later...

In response to Dickon's reply -

He says that he potentially agree's with you in your general statement, although he thinks any use of the 'harder' substances could be said to be 'leading to addiction'

However, he can firmly say that he can, and does once in awhile go without any significant psychoactive abuse for a week or two (by choice, necessity, or simply lack of motivation to obtain psychoactives), this doesn't include nicotine or caffiene, for the record - as above, he is truly addicted, in every sense of the word, to those substances).

He does tend to think about 'using' in those 'clean' weeks, whether they're by choice or by lack of supply/funds, however he doesn't truly NEED anything, he does WANT them.

NOTE - to be entirely fair, he may occasionally drink in those 'clean' weeks, though not (ihho) out of need, necessity, or to remove otherwise unremoveable boredom)

[chillinwill]

IMO, SWIY is definitely mentally addicted but not yet physically addicted. Just by starting this new thread asking these questions shows that SWIY has an idea that they themselves might be addicted and can see that its a problem. Even if SWIY isn't addicted yet, SWIY is clearly on that path. If SWIY can abstain from all drugs including alcohol (minus the nicotine and caffeine as I don't see that as a problem) for a month, the chances of SWIY being an addict go down. Even if SWIY does this though, there are many addicts out there that don't use daily but binge use and whatnot. This can still be classified as addiction. Furethermore, if one is using to escape everyday normal life, this can be the sign of another problem that can lead to addiction. Even if SWIY isn't using on the harder side of drugs, addiction can still happen with drugs such as alcohol, benzo's, etc. This is just my 2 cents though as Red Rock is addicted to many substances and has to abstain from them unless he wants his addiction to spiral out of control again.

[SWIMming]

This friend doesn't deny the mental addiction to substance abuse by any means, and he agrees that the fact that he dictated these posts, and is still doing so, while hes spun is evidence to recognizing a problem.

He also agrees that he is not physically addicted to anything (other than, once again, nicotine and caffeine, which he agree's aren't *truly* problems in the sense that most psychoactive 'addictions' or dependencies are), and he takes EXTREME care in making the physically addictive substances well spaced, and rare (other than perhaps alcohol, which he has already made a personal resolution to cut back on).

He also knows he CAN abstain for long periods of time, but also recognizes that thoughts of both general and specific use tend to preoccupy him a bit during those sober periods (not enough to be considered his menal focus, but rather enough that he acknowledges it).

Also, he says it isn't really an escape from everyday life (in that he is generally happy and content when he's sober as well), but he simply prefers euphoric improvement. Maybe the best way to put it is a 'smoke it if you got it' kind of complex (the term being general, insert eat, snort, etc in place of smoke as pertinant).

Lastly, he went through his true binge use phases 2 or so years ago, in the drinking til hammered, or up for 3 or 4 days sense. He is FAR more in control of the extremities of over use than he use to be.

In any case, he wants everyone to know that he isn't trying to justifiy, hes simply clarifying and discussing his use, and once again, truly appreciates the input.

[Dickon]

It seems pretty clear to me, your "friend" is heading for addiction, if he isn't there already. There's little point in making a distinction between physical and psychological addiction. Sure it's not nice to come off heroin or methadone, but it's also not nice to suffer a crack comedown. I've said to someone who asked me previously a similar question, that the asking of the question itself is sufficient reason to consider that a problem exists. I said to him "go a week without XYZ" and he said no. At that point I said I'm all but certain you have a problem. I make the same dare to you. Go a week, hardly a long time, without anything and I mean no pot, no alcohol, no other drugs. OK caffeine and nicotine are not going to seriously screw you up mentally so for this putative experiment I'll allow them.

I bet you won't even try to go a week! Prove me wrong.

Best wishes

Dickon