Cheating oneself

[AvidFan]

I won't type out SWIM's predicament again, as it's here:

http://www.drugs-forum.co.uk/forum/s...8&postcount=10

What I do know is that one of SWIM's weaknesses is letting his addiction talk him back into using, probably when he is just about the crest the hill and things should start to get easier. For some reason all the addiction's seductions suck him back in like a $10,000 a night superwhore offering a night of pleasure all for free - and of course everyone knows what happens the next day, and if not the day after...

So SWIM knows he is good at cheating himself - but he is less prone to cheat others. SWIM is pretty alone in this situation - he has mentioned his problem to some friends, but they think his addiction was small time and he is off the opiates now.

So SWIM wonders if it is OK to use this forum as a kind of support network - maybe create a thread next time SWIM decides to quit, and come here and post when he feels those crazy cravings? If others invest time in him, SWIM feels it may be an added boost to get at least past day 6 and hopefully further as SWIM doesn't like letting other people down even though he lets himself down time and again

SWIM is currently looking at his diary in hopes of finding a stress free window to attempt to come off again - SWIM knows after keeping a diary that day 5 or 6 is the real danger point, if he makes it past day one, which is the first big hurdle as always! SWIM has a business to keep going and a dependant parent to look after, so finding the right window can be hard and it is often the little stresses which trigger relapse

[youdontknow]

of course this forum will give u some sort of support. But everytime i come here looking for support i end up looking at old threads about getting high and shit. Really isnt the best.

[chillinwill]

Of course this forum can be used for a support network and whatnot. That's what many people use it for including Red Rock. A very good link to check out on here about someone coming off methadone can be found Here.

[ellie2]

Swim uses kratom when cravings hit but only then..works every time!

[AvidFan]

SWIM has decided to make a go of it this weekend. SWIM has 3 stress free days, and is going to use those for cold turkey - no oxy, no kratom. SWIM believes using kratom for opiate withdrawals can be a good thing for some, but for SWIM it just prolongs the torture and provides a "make do" substance until the addiction is ready to hit the throttle hard again. Kratom seems to just tease SWIM's brain/receptors and keep them active and hungry and SWIM feels it makes relapse more likely in his case - at least that's the theory. SWIM tried to quit smoking many times using gum, lozenges, and all that crap and it never worked, it just kept the body hungry for nicotine and SWIM always went back to smoking - until he did real cold turkey and enlisted the help of a mentor to report back to and speak to. So SWIM is going to try the same process now. SWIM knows the likelihood of ten days of stress free time is small, and in some ways the addiction will always make up some stresses to feed itself (SWIM has already heard the inner voice saying things like "Christmas is coming, it will be a stressful time - wait until after... And hey, January is always a miserable time, February too, why not just wait until spring when you always feel better?).

Do these thoughts sound familiar to any SWIY's out there? SWIM feels it's best to act now, and each little stress got through without resorting to opiates will be a small victory and hopefully success will breed success.

One of the hardest things SWIM has found is that SWIM has been functioning rather well on the OXY - his life is being kept together, he is not resorting to anything criminal and it is not ruining him financially - this is another tactic "the voice" uses - keeps telling SWIM "What's the harm?! Things are tough, you deserve a bit of relaxation!" The trouble is, SWIM has lately been needing to use earlier in the day to get through work, whereas before it was usually just evening use, albeit daily - this is a major warning sign for SWIM. In fact now SWIM has started writing things are becoming a lot clearer about many of the addictive processes going on in SWIM's psyche.

SWIM hopes this forum will help to be his mentor and coach - just wonders if it's best to use the blog facility he just noticed, or the forum? Or use the blog for as much random detail as he wants to ramble on about, and summarise in the forum to save taking up too much of everyone's time (SWIM doubts he will write as much as Dickon did - a thread which he is going to refer back to no doubt for inspiration - but then again he has been known to write a lot!).

SWIM feels a little better bringing this out in the open, so to speak, and feels it's a first step back on the road to quitting - SWIM thanks in advance for any support, guidance and advice that will come along the way.

SWIM's business is going down the pan with the recession etc, but he will make as much of a donation as he can in return for hammering the hell out of the forum's facilities

[beena]

Wow! Avidfan - SWIY is in exactly the same predicament as SWIM. She has been using nine years and has stopped using countless times with varying degrees of success but they all have one thing in common: they've never worked. SWIM is just so weak-willed and always gives in at some point. Then she thinks it's all doom and gloom, beats herself up for having been such a loser and an idiot and ... well, you know the rest right? SWIM has also started a thread called 'I'm finally doing it!' ... this was a thread she started when she had been clean a little while and really believed it was gonna be the time she did it and the thread was gonna be a glorious charting of her successes as time progressed, instead it's recorded the ups and downs over the last 18 months to two years in her life. In fact when she started the thread she was a heavy crack-cocaine user and an opiate user. Fast-forward to today and SWIM is still using crack and opiates and she's added heroin to the list. Go figure. So SWIM won't insult your intelligence by offering you any advice but she will offer her support. Good luck. SWIM really wishes you all the luck in the world and hopes SWIY succeeds. Stay strong buddy - it's the only way.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	You give great words of encouragement. Very kind.
	Helpful and supportive poster

[AvidFan]

Thanks Beena (and others) - suddenly SWIM does not feel so alone

Have read a bit of the "Finally doing it" thread, and some of SWIY's blog - something that will be of interest in the no doubt insomniacal nights to come when SWIM will peruse the rest of the thread and no doubt more such threads.

Interesting that SWIY writes poetry, as SWIM also does.

SWIM thanks Beena for the support and hopes she can find the will and wherewithal to beat the addiction for good one day.

All the best

[Lisa J]

Best of luck for this weekend SWIAvidFan, just remember not to look too far ahead because a life without opiates EVER AGAIN usually just scares us back into using. Take it one day at a time to start with and when it's really tough work on getting through the next hour!.
SWIM stopped smoking & IVing fent a few weeks ago by going cold turkey though she still wears the patches prescribed for her, at that time SWIM was using heroin 1 - 3 times a week but after giving up the fent abuse her heroin use quickly became a daily one. SWIM is now on day 2 of not using heroin, this time she has increased her methadone (too soon for another W/D) but that only takes care of the physical side, cravings are still a bitch
SWIM'S drug worker was going to call her today to see how she was managing, he didn't!. SWIM'S close friend also promised to call and so far he hasn't, when people let us SWIMmers down is an easy excuse to give up and reach for that fix, lets face it, it doesn't take a lot does it.
Don't put it off, there will always be a reason not to quit if SWIY looks for one, if possible write down all the reasons why you should stop and all the reasons why you shouldn't, keep looking at the list when SWIY is weakening.
Good luck

Reputation Comments on this post:

Poster is very helpful and supportive

[AvidFan]

Thanks for the words of encouragement LJ.

SWIM is already feeling quite energised by the words of encouragement and support from the forum, and feels strengthened by it - and in a weird way he's looking forward to the weekend - SWIM often looks forward to attempts to quit as it is an excuse to do nothing, chill etc, and SWIM has some treats lined up as rewards etc, assuming the w/d symptoms are not too bad. SWIM's not really sure what to expect physically as he's used kratom the last few times when quitting oxy and has largely escaped any major physical stuff, but only has a few spoonfuls of kratom left, after tapering off it for the last week without too much trouble (but using far too much oxy already again this week which will have compensated) - by Saturday it will be gone. The last time SWIM quit kratom and Oxy simultaneously, the RLS and agitation was awful the first night but gradually wore off.

Anyway, the list of reasons for and against is a good idea, SWIM has read about NLP and stuff so will try to use some of those techniques - visualising life without opiates and turning up the brightness and colour, making it desirable, seeing it as freedom and not deprivation, etc.

SWILisaJ is so right - the thought of never having opiates again is terrifying, and it doesn't take much to make one go running for that fix, so mental strength really does need to be cultivated! On day, one hour, one minute at a time will have to be key!

SWIM hopes SWILisaJ is still off the heroin and will stay in touch over the coming days/weeks whatever happens.

SWIM will start some kind of blog at the weekend, and take it from there

[Lisa J]

Pleased to hear SWIAvidFan is still going to try and quit those opiates
SWIM'S friend did call so she's now on day 3 and sticking to what she's prescribed plus the extra methadone. SWIM can't think about never using heroin or smoking fent again so she tells herself it's just for today, she really wants to get that first week under her belt though. SWIM also knows she needs to bring something into her life to replace the heroin/fent and she is working on this.
SWIAvidFan should try and post how it goes, good or bad, just remember there are plenty of ex addicts out there and very few of them quit their addictions in the first few attempts. Every time we fail we take something with us and learn from it, giving us a better chance next time, who knows, SWIAvidFan may have learned enough already

[Spare Chaynge]

Keep on posting avidfan.. everyone wants to hear .. swim to use to be addicted.

[Richard_smoker]

this is gonna be tough. good luck. i agree with you 100% on kratom being of NO BENEFIT for getting off opiates. like you said, it's only good for cheating yourself right back into a full-on habit after you've been quit for a while.

what's your plan for monday? to get up and go to work??

it's gonna be rough... if you're still feeling really bad, you can get up about 2 hours before work, and then just force yourself out the door, and walk or jog as long as you can possibly make yourself. SWIM remembers his WORST w/d symptoms ever, even had a terrible heavy tremor--so frickin terrible, that he finally stood up, grabbed dog & leash, and made himself start running, right out the front door.

every step hurt so he started off mumbling under his breath ("ONE STEP AFTER ANOTHER....ONE STEP AFTER ANOTHER..") over and over again, with each plod of his feet. by focusing on staring at the pavement and saying that mantra over and over and over again, he finally managed to RUN--ok, jog. SLOWLY JOG for 2 blocks and back to his house...took about 15-20 minutes and again, he did NOT run fast at all. now, he was so overwhelmed with thoughts and noise that he actually felt like he could ONLY focus on ONE SINGLE STEP at a time!...finally he reached his house again. he was covered in sweat, gasping for breath...

but the funny thing was that it was after THIS EXPERIENCE that he had around 5-6 straight hours of this crazy, giddy, drug-like euphoria...it was so weird, he expected it was his mind playing tricks on him for the entire time--constantly ready to crash back down, but he never did... not until after getting some sleep and woke up the next morning again in detox...

that episode of w/d's before/during the "one step after another" jog was the worst day of w/d of his life, but he was able to 'flip it' into the most euphoric, almost spiritual experience after the jog.

too bad you can't put off work til wednesday. then you'd be ok... just stay busy during the day...take as many naps and showers as possible and pray your ass off...to somebody.

the worst will be over soon. Your main issue is pushing yourself thru the end of the work week. somehow you just have to psyche yourself up all week long, looking forward to NEXT weekend, when you can finally 'knock yourself out' all weekend by the t.v.

if you can manage to push thru the week, then once you get bunkered down into your hermit-area next weekend, relax as best as you can cuz you need those days to FOCUS on getting up & PUSHING yourself off the couch to work the next week...read RATIONAL RECOVERY's site--it takes 20 minutes to read this corrective brain-washing that you will NEED. search for it on this site.

by the next monday, you will likely be feeling rather normal...

if you find it's too difficult, then you might have to get a temporary buprenorphine supply...docs are now spread all over the U.S. certified in this therapy. use the suboxone physician-locator online. it will list all the drs in your area.

if you do a quick run of buprenorphine, it makes getting off easy in terms of w/d. but it will be very difficult to keep from falling back into the same routine with the buprenorphine. try to stop taking it around 2-3 weeks out.

half your dose every 4-5 days until you're down to 0.3mg/day. then jump off. the drug works for 2-3 days and will block out most of your free receptors. relapse is difficult on bupe because you'd require a HUGE dose of your regular opiate and i don't think you'd feel anything. it takes 3 days for the subs to clear out. this makes for a 'painless' 3 week-long quit. requires a TOTAL supply of about 80-140mg to get over your OC's easily. only problem is that it's easy to relapse later...but consider this option. do NOT get addicted to the suboxone. that shit will put you completely out forever in withdrawals.

hope any of this helps. you should also read the recipe for quitting opiates in this folder.

[AvidFan]

Thanks RS.

Can't go into too much detail right now - fortunately SWIM works for himself, so can be pretty flexible, but he does need to go out now and then to see clients. etc. SWIM has some other personal circumstances he's not yet comfortable with discussing in public, but it will come out in coming days/posts pretty probably. SWIM plans that Monday will be part of a long weekend where he won't do too much, but will treat himself well for 3 days if he feels up to it..

Work is not the worst of SWIM's worries, it's the fact it's a social time of year and it's hard to avoid people. SWIM doesn't plan to though, as it could be a good distraction, SWIM has a couple of meetings with friends (clean ones, SWIM doesn't have any friends who use opiates anyway!) that have been planned for a while, and also has a gig on Tuesday that's been planned for some time. SWIM has found in the past such things can be real temptations, as there is a danger of the voice saying "Why spoil your night out by abstaining, why not just use for the night out then quit after,,," but SWIM is aware of this and not trying to think too far ahead. At the moment, SWIM is just going to try to get through tomorrow and take it from there!!

SWIM finds RS's jogging interesting as SWIM is a keen runner - in fact the last time SWIM managed to detox, things were going really well and SWIM might have made a better job of it, were it not for the fact that he went on a 10 mile run and got a pretty painful injury by the end of it - guess what happened with the combination of pain and having the ability to exercise taken away - it was key to the last relapse, as what better excuse to use opiates than to actually have some real pain...

SWIM wonders what effect being very physically fit has on withdrawals. Will be interesting to find out. SWIM realy struggled with kratom withdrawals, but wasn't fit back then. SWIM can only see what happens now - and will certainly try going for a run if he feels up to it.

SWIM has felt pretty ill today as he has been using too much, using the last of his supply up (although it is far too easy to be able to get more at the drop of a hat). SWIM has been nodding off in inappropriate places and nearly missed a meeting after nodding off on a train. The addiction is trying its best to make the most of its last few hours, he is guessing, but the quitting side of SWIM is thoroughly sick of it now - physically and mentally.

Thanks for the support again. SWIM will just do his best to make sure nobody who has offered support has wasted their time

AvidFan added 1165 Minutes and 57 Seconds later...

So far so good. SWIM has added to his blog but waiting for it to be modded, but so far today SWIM feels OK after using for the last time late last night just before going to bed, and slept OK for the first time in a week (the heavier OXY use seems to have killed off sleep lately). SWIM has had one or two cravings and has heard the "Bad Angel" on his shoulder pipe up a few times, but like I say, so far so good for SWIM.

AvidFan added 151 Minutes and 28 Seconds later...

SWIM's story continues at the following thread:

http://www.drugs-forum.co.uk/forum/s...ad.php?t=72929

[Richard_smoker]

hey, that jogging bit will be your SALVATION!

honestly...i hesitate to tell people this because MOST (i.e. the VAST MAJORITY) of opiate users have absolutely ZERO predilection to exercise--why? because the exogenous endorphins (i.e. the opiates they've been taking) have taken the place of any and ALL ENDOGENOUS opiates (i.e. endorphins, specifically 'runners high').

if you can get right back into running...even though it might suck at first, you need to do that ASAP! it will completely 100% replace opiates in your life. otherwise, you can discredit me all over this board. ok?

at first you might be overly-susceptible to pain, soreness, and getting winded. if you're an avid runner already, then just slow down or take 'walking breaks' to catch your wind. this is OK! honest!!! you do NOT need an all-out marathon-runner's high to get at LEAST 12 hours solid benefit from this kind of exercise!!!

just remember that your brain and nerves are pre-conditioned to the opiate/endorphin stimulus. therefore, when you're first getting off the drugs, your rewards from exercise will be amazing. just push yourself as much as you still feel totally comfortable with.

soon enough you'll be back to 100% running from earlier in your life.

just please make sure and take it easy for a while...be patient with your body as it is not going to be the exact same for a while. you will need to treat your muscles liberally with heat, ice, hot showers, and anti-inflammatory drugs (ibuprophen or alleve). also, try and get some good stretching in or decide to walk/jog slowly until you can establish some warm-up in your muscles. as you prob already know, this will help you out GREATLY in terms of avoiding injury and helping with the inevitable next-day soreness.

wishing you all the best and 100% success. please feel free to pm me anytime you need support, have questions, or are feeling tempted to 'fall back.' trust me--it's NOT worth relapsing. life is TONS better without those shitty-ass drugs. you'll see what i mean!!! -DICK

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Regular exercise will definitely get the endorphins pumping, just tough to get into a routine and keep at it, especially...
	Another very helpful post, thanks

[CrookedEye]

SWIM would just like to add some words of encouragement as he has been clean of opiates since 04 and is much happier and has no desire to use drugs that can take over one's personality, and rule their world.. Best of luck on SWIYour recovery, just take it one day at a time, and one minute at a time, and keep SWIYourself doing healthy things to keep busy, as this is major in developing a healthier lifestyle without addictive drugs..

Reputation Comments on this post:

Helpful post, thanks

[AvidFan]

Originally Posted by Richard_smoker

hey, that jogging bit will be your SALVATION!

honestly...i hesitate to tell people this because MOST (i.e. the VAST MAJORITY) of opiate users have absolutely ZERO predilection to exercise--why? because the exogenous endorphins (i.e. the opiates they've been taking) have taken the place of any and ALL ENDOGENOUS opiates (i.e. endorphins, specifically 'runners high').

if you can get right back into running...even though it might suck at first, you need to do that ASAP! it will completely 100% replace opiates in your life. otherwise, you can discredit me all over this board. ok?

at first you might be overly-susceptible to pain, soreness, and getting winded. if you're an avid runner already, then just slow down or take 'walking breaks' to catch your wind. this is OK! honest!!! you do NOT need an all-out marathon-runner's high to get at LEAST 12 hours solid benefit from this kind of exercise!!!

just remember that your brain and nerves are pre-conditioned to the opiate/endorphin stimulus. therefore, when you're first getting off the drugs, your rewards from exercise will be amazing. just push yourself as much as you still feel totally comfortable with.

soon enough you'll be back to 100% running from earlier in your life.

just please make sure and take it easy for a while...be patient with your body as it is not going to be the exact same for a while. you will need to treat your muscles liberally with heat, ice, hot showers, and anti-inflammatory drugs (ibuprophen or alleve). also, try and get some good stretching in or decide to walk/jog slowly until you can establish some warm-up in your muscles. as you prob already know, this will help you out GREATLY in terms of avoiding injury and helping with the inevitable next-day soreness.

wishing you all the best and 100% success. please feel free to pm me anytime you need support, have questions, or are feeling tempted to 'fall back.' trust me--it's NOT worth relapsing. life is TONS better without those shitty-ass drugs. you'll see what i mean!!! -DICK

Thanks for the post RS

Patient X did go for a run last week, his first run in 2 months after injury (he has been swimming instead - ie, swimming in a pool, not posting on here ). He walked for 10 minutes, then ran for 5, then walked 5, ran 5, walked 5 and ran a final 5 - his legs were aching for days afterwards! 2 months ago he could run 10 miles non stop. But those 5 minutes did feel good.

The intense cold is an issue at the moment, but tomorrow Patient X will be on day 3 and may just try a little bit of jogging, he will stay close to home so he can always come back if it gets too much.

Patient X looks forward to entering some races in the Spring, so getting fit again is going to be a good goal to concentrate on.

Thanks very much for the encouragement

[CrookedEye]

Any updates?

[AvidFan]

Originally Posted by CrookedEye

Any updates?

Yup, the main story is over at:

http://www.drugs-forum.co.uk/forum/s...ad.php?t=72929

Apologies that this fictional story spans a couple of threads - to summarise SWIM/Patient X is on day 9 clean of OXY, and doesn't think he'd have made it this far without the forum, and the support found here, especially a few kicks up the arse (or ass) from Dickon and some good advice and support from others.