Addiction - Swapping Benzo's to avoid quicker addiction/tolerance issues?

[roadkill barbie]

Swim has a very serious anxiety disorder and so benzos,,,valium at this juncture have become a lifeline. Swim has no intention of coming off them in the foreseeable future,,but only does them when needed, not every day.
Swim was wondering if he had the option of changing to another benzo (taking in mind half lifes/comparisons etc) every (eg) 6 months, would this change mean he was less susceptable to addiction and tolerance issues as he would be staying on one benzo for years?

[klonopinz]

Swim would like to know what dose does Swiy take, and the frequency (be a bit more specific on the comment "only when needed"). Also, Swim could be more helpful to Swiy if he knew what is Swiys experience with benzodiazapines.

If only taken when needed, and not everyday Swim doesn't think addiction/tolerance is an issue Swiy should particularly worry about. Swim reminds Swiy to take the lowest dose possible of whatever benzo gives her the best relief with fewer side effects. Tolerance, which starts much earlier than "addiction and habituation", can be used as a tool to determine when you have taken a bit too much of what you are supposed to, and take a quick break to start back from square one. Swim just thinks that if being addicted to something sucks, imagine being addicted to two things, or more (polydrug abuse).

Swim thinks that users won't get any benefit from swapping from a benzodiazepine to another, given that none will really cure or fix whatever affects them, just treat symptoms prophylactic-ly. More so, not much is known about drug addiction, and even less is known about the interactions between different drugs of the same class in addicted patients. Maybe, changing from "a" to "b" does nothing to dissipate tolerance of "a" because whatever mediates that mechanism is now tolerating "b". True, it could be the same exact opposite and actually help. But, since it is not known, and neither A, B nor C will permanently fix things. Swim rather stick with he knows works best, and stop temporarily when it stops working as efficiently.

Swim might consider swapping benzodiazepines only, if for example, they are used to treat chronic severe muscular pain and cramps like those seen in Cerebral Palsy patients, where benzos are taken daily and continuously. That is, when used for analgesia, not sedation.

[humdroid]

This would screw up your brain even more

All benzos are cross tolerant, no?

Reputation Comments on this post:

Incites knowledge seeking which all should follow.

[klonopinz]

Originally Posted by humdroid

All benzos are cross tolerant, no?

Swim doesn't have the experience nor the appropriate pharmacodynamics information to offer an appropiate answer.

Swim does note though that, for example, persons addicted to coffee (caffeine) seem to have a higher tolerance to cocaine and perceive less effects than persons who are not. If Swim had to guess, he would follow Humdroid lead and think they are.

[roadkill barbie]

First up many thanks for the advice, Swim takes around 10-15 mg when in social circumstances (though not when just out in public). This ranges from 2-4 times a week. Swim has OCD, a tic disorder and panic attacks,,all of which are alleviated by valium,,though this is normally took with propranolol (beta blocker). Swim has had a history of drug problems in the past so British GPs dont trust him with benzos,,which is a shame as swim has grown up since,understands his condition and doesnt want to abuse benzos at all,,having said that even when GPs (doctors) trust walrus they only prescribe them for around 4 weeks. Swim has only ever had fleeting experience with benzos in his youth,,taking other drugs got the walrus in trouble,,but doctors just see - drug induced psychosis 10 years ago and think a walrus never changes his spots.
Swim is hugely relieved to hear that if taken like this swim shouldnt think this an issue,,,,you see swim is a member of a self help group and one monkey does nothing but yabber on about benzo withdrawl/addiction etc,,,,,I know how careful a walrus should be,,but like I say its a godsend.
Swim must thank you guys again for your advice on tolerance being a precursor to addiction,,,and the liklihood that changing benzo's for the reasons expressed may be ill advised,,,,cheers

[klonopinz]

Klonopinz told swim:

..." Given your symptoms, I would try benzodiazapines with a longer half-life, like clonazepam for example. Given that GP's think of you as a "liability", I wouldn't recommend to start asking for different types right off the bat, but to bring it up at the end of one consult, and then talk about it the next one. You are already getting Diazepam, so it should not be hard.

The approach and mentality you have toward your problem is very positive, though. Disregard whatever that monkey tells ya. Remind him that you are all in a SELF Help group... and be weary of those not really worrying about themselves. Most, if not all drugs, no matter how addictive, can be successfully used in any treatment intended if correctly used, and the fact you understand this "treatment" shouldn't be constant, but only when absolutely needed says a lot!
"...

[fiveleggedrat]

6mo. is plenty time to get addicted. However, using as needed is MUCH smarter than just blanket dosing 24/7, which is just living with an addiction in my book. IMO using the same benzo as needed and using different benzos as needed will have almost no difference; only thing I can think of is developing a psychological addiction to a specific benzo that Swiy prefers.

Yes, benzos, just like other classes, exhibit cross tolerance with each other. For Swim, lorazepam and alprazolam have cross tolerance with 100% certainty.

[roadkill barbie]

walrus says he will have a look at clonazepam as a possible alternative,,but was pretty sure valium had a fairly long half life itself.
Swim is sure his 'as and when' approach MUST be safer than the 'blanket coverage' approach, and is considering a week without just to be safe.
Swim should definetely mention that while the chocolate mouse prescribes the walrus SSRI's and propranolol,,he gets his valium through alternative means,,a reliable blackberry supplier, benzos are very rarely prescribed for more than 4 weeks in the UK,,,almost never to people who've had drug issues in the past,,,but as said,,the walrus has learnt his lessons since and wouldnt want to jeopardise his benzo tolerance anyway, to be honest the walrus would rather get drunk or take the very occasional pill/ K / shroom if this was about a recreational thing,,but its not, its about managing to make it out the house/socialise/get a job/life etc.
Thanks again guys.

[claroscura]

Don't really know about that. I think they have the same mechanism of action, so it shouldn't matter which you take or if you switch it up.

HOWEVER, if one wants to avoid addiction then to take a benzo with a longer half-life on a regular basis is the way to go. Clonazepam, a benzo-derivative, has one of the longest half-lives out there. It is prescribed for issues like general anxiety. Basically, if one is going on and off benzos all the time (like you would be with some shorter-acting benzodiazepines), one is more prone to develop a tolerance and addiction - as opposed to a situation where the amount of benzos in one's body fluctuates very little. One never gives one's body the chance to miss the drug, is the theory.

But I feel fairly certain that this is not entirely practical for recreational use. If self-medication (i.e. for anxiety) is another aim, however, one might look for benzos with longer half-lives to lower the risk of addiction.

[blackdb1]

Swim like the OP also has OCD along with GAD, SAD, and panic attacks!!! Swim was addicted to opiates and sees a Suboxone Dr for opioid maintenance but also receives Klonazepam from this Dr (1mg AM, 2mg at bedtime)!!!??? Swim however lives in the USA and it may differ greatly from the UK?

Swim has his Sub Dr and a psychiatrist who BOTH know swim had addiction issues in the past and BOTH Rx swim benzodiazepines...??? Swim tried many times to get scripted benzos while addicted to opiates however NEVER succeeded? However now that swim is honest about his past and how he used drugs to cover up all his psychiatric issues by getting high Dr's ARE willing to give him benzodiazepines!!!???

Swim although does have SERIOUSLY DEBILITATING anxiety and psychiatric issues which keep him from life satisfaction and getting a job, etc... Swim seems to think though, that swiyou could get a legitimate Rx for benzos if swiy finds the wright Dr? He thinks this would be MUCH BETTER than illicitly obtaining them, although swim VERY WELL understands living life with anxiety can make things miserable much of the time and can see why swiyou are selfmedicating!!!

Swim wishes swiyou the BEST OF LUCK with swiyou're anxiety and whatnot and hopes swiy can find a compassionate Dr who understands the difficulty of living with such conditions!!! All the best!!! -bdb1-