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Opiates & Opioids Opiates & Opioids.

 
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  #1  
Old 29-11-2008, 23:26
Herbal Healer 019 Herbal Healer 019 is offline
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How do antacids affect opiates and opioids?

How do antacids react with opiates and opioids? Say SWIM is taking grapefruit juice while taking certain opiates to potentiate & used antacids to counteract the increased acidity caused by the GFJ.

I kno antacids basify the stomach acids...wouldn't this cause the duration and peak to last longer?

And would antacids only affect oral doses of opiates/oids? What about insufflation?
  #2  
Old 30-11-2008, 00:49
Samadhi Gold member Samadhi is offline
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Re: How do antacids affect opiates and opioids?

antacids will help prolong the effect of opiates due to your reasoning stated above, they won't work with insuffilation because antacids have nothing to do with the mucus membranes that the opiates will work on in that route.

swim has heard anecdotal reports of low doses of diphenhydramine (50-100mg) boosting the high of opiates if taken 30-45mins before consumption.

also cyclobenziprine is supposed to potentiate, but swim doesn't know much about the interaction there
  #3  
Old 30-11-2008, 01:29
Herbal Healer 019 Herbal Healer 019 is offline
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Re: How do antacids affect opiates and opioids?

Yea SWIMs been using butalbital (fiorcet), a barbiturate, for potentiation & finds it works pretty well 4 euphoria. SWIM never uses the oral route of administration (except with butalbital) due to the shitty bioavailibility, so I guess SWIM has been eating several antacids for nothing. SWIM always had the impression that the acidity of the stomach also affected blood acidity thus helping antacids to prolong certain drug durations, guess not.
  #4  
Old 30-11-2008, 01:44
Samadhi Gold member Samadhi is offline
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Re: How do antacids affect opiates and opioids?

well, think of it this way, swiy didn't have heartburn did he?

  #5  
Old 30-11-2008, 02:04
klonopinz klonopinz is offline
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Re: How do antacids affect opiates and opioids?

Ingestion: Drug passes through 4 primary systems before becoming available in you circulatory system. That's all we know. It is though that the drug reacts with these 4, as it travel through your digestive system waiting to be absorbed into the blood stream and that, on average (REAL GENERAL average) 80% of it is either not absorbed in time at your small intestines and only 20% (what is truly intended) is now being circulated in your system.

Antacids seem to directly affect 3 of these 4 systems, the stomach bacteria, the gi lumen and the gut linen, but these barely, if at all, affect molecule structures. The hepatic, perhaps the most important (and obstructive one), is directly unaffected but its effect on the substance is delayed. The known effect of antacids is that digestion time decreases, because stomach ph has been neutralized, and more time will probably be needed to deal with the current nutrient digestion and the reestablish of normal acid levels. This, in turn, provides more time for the drug to access the bloodstream since it will stay longer and it will move slower and not be digested (i.e. expelled) as fast.

The reason this works with some narcotic substances and others not is simply their specific method of action with our liver. Some have lower thresholds on the amount they can metabolize in a given time, and that time is not provided by the antacid.

Insufflation: No, antacid will do nothing, that why it's not a potentiatior. Make sure your product is non-narcotic medication free. If not, swiy should try cold water extraction. Insufflating delivers substance directly into the bloodstream, through the nasal membranes, bypassing the liver (very similar to sublingual but simpler). They key about nasal membrames is that the substance must be water soluble for it to be absorbed, and around 60-70% of what you took actually took ends up being delivered. Thats effectively, twice the potency, but for about half the ingestion time since the onset of effects is, obviously, faster.

Hope this helps.

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Great information and so well written, thanks
  #6  
Old 30-11-2008, 03:34
Jasim Gold member Jasim is offline
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Re: How do antacids affect opiates and opioids?

Um, you don't really 'digest' opiates. The stomach acid does help to break apart pills, swim guesses that's kinda like digestion. But basifying the stomach contents can only speed absorption, which would help the high.


Edit: Faster absorption also helps more to get through the liver during first-pass metabolism, due to the fact that enzymatic metabolism hasn't had time to ramp up.

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  #7  
Old 30-11-2008, 04:00
klonopinz klonopinz is offline
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Re: How do antacids affect opiates and opioids?

I'm sorry, when I meant digest I meant the whole process of removing nutrients out of ingested matter. Digestion actually starts at the mouth, with saliva, and ends all the way back to... you know... hehej

Anyway, medicines are actually absorbed, not in the stomach, but in the small intestines. Normal human phasing for food is anywhere around 35-1 hour from food intake, to pass of first ingested nutrients to the s.i. So pills usually sit at the stomach's fondus, getting baths of acid and bacteria until they are pushed further down the system. Then, they pass to the s.i., and are quickly absorbed (this is due to the fact that the most concentration of veins in your digestive system go there).

Antacids, when taken at maximum daily dose, can significantly reduce that phasing time. This simply allows more time for 3 systems that are not suppose to interact with the substance, and delays the time, and increases the amount of drug that reaches the liver for the first initial pass.
  #8  
Old 30-11-2008, 05:40
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Re: How do antacids affect opiates and opioids?

Quote:
Originally Posted by klonopinz View Post
This simply allows more time for 3 systems that are not suppose to interact with the substance, and delays the time, and increases the amount of drug that reaches the liver for the first initial pass.
Can swiy explain what swiy means a little more clearly? Swim understands that the more drug that gets to the liver for the first pass through, means more un-metabolized drug ends up past the liver to exert psychoactive effects. Swim was under the assumption (read it somewhere) that basifying GI contents can speed absorption, but swim is unclear exactly how this occurs.
Actually swim read that alkalinizing a substance will speed it's absorption. Is there a distinction?
  #9  
Old 30-11-2008, 06:35
klonopinz klonopinz is offline
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Re: How do antacids affect opiates and opioids?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasim View Post
Can swiy explain what swiy means a little more clearly? Swim understands that the more drug that gets to the liver for the first pass through, means more un-metabolized drug ends up past the liver to exert psychoactive effects.

Swim was under the assumption (read it somewhere) that basifying GI contents can speed absorption, but swim is unclear exactly how this occurs.
Actually swim read that alkalinizing a substance will speed it's absorption. Is there a distinction?
Say you take 20mg oxy with a) and b) without antacids.

a) You intake the pill, which stays in the stomach for 35-45 mins, being in contact with the 3 systems for the supposed time. Afterwards, the pill and acid pass to s.i., and will be absorbed within 15 minutes. Whatever is not absorbed follows into the less vein (in comparison) populated large intestine. Also, acid, bacteria, biliary and other systems within the G.I. tract will metabolize the remainder of the drug and convert it to useless substances that you will excrete. Of what you took, and was succesfully absorbed by your small int, now will go to your liver, to be metabolized. Here is where you lose 80% of whatever made it through and you absorbed. So if of the 20mg, only 10mg are absorbed by you and your bowel movements, then you only get a 2mg high or so.

b) Is the same thing, but it will stay twice as longer in your stomach, and small intestine. Now, instead of 10 mg, you might absorb 13 or 14mg, and get a slight 1mg increase after first pass in overall blood concentration levels. Or maybe 2 or 3 mgs actually make it to your circulatory system through the 3 previous systems, bypassing the hepatic port veins and last system, so you initially get a slight dose, followed by the first pass effects.

Swim thinks it depends on the actual drug. Swim recalls that lowering the PH of the stomach has some know drug interactions, and they are mainly because the low level of acid won't trigger the particular drugs method of release, or could interfere in absorption because of the particular active ingredient being neutralized by the low hp, for instance, tetracycline.

Swim personally things that ingesting is not a good way to intake medication, and insufflating or sublimizing tend to allow the use of much lower doses, faster onset of effects, and general satisfaction. Just make sure whatever swiy puts in his nose readily dissolves in water.

Last edited by klonopinz; 01-12-2008 at 19:00.

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acidicity, antacids, pharmacology, potentiating opiates

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