Combinations - MDMA and Amphetamines Idea? Good Plan?

[XTC3289]

Hi everybody so SWIM is going to a rave this weekend and he has 3 blue middle fingers which consist of a lot of MDMA. but he also has 1 blue glock which consist of no MDMA pretty much mostly speed in the pill. SWIM knows that 3 pills is not enough for him in the whole night due to his high tolerance. so SWIM was thinkin that after he drops the 3 blue middle fingers and comes down from them. is it a good idea for him to drop the blue glock to get the extra speedy mood so he can be dancin more since he doesnt have any more pills?

[old hippie 56]

In swim years of experience, he has found out that speed and X do not mix well. The come down is a bitch.

[FrogEye]

yeah swim tells me that taking the speedy ones last/near last is the best way to get through the night, because after you get through the high MDMA ones, taking another high MDMA one wouldnt have as much effect due to seratonin being relativley depleted in your brain.

[bigmac1234]

swim knows all about speed and e. swim was up for 2 days on speed then popped 2 e's. swim will tell you that indeed the comedown is the worse thing ever. swim was light headed and had anxiety attacks for about an hour this sucked! swim will not mix that shiznit again!

[Cryptic Concoction]

Firstly, I have absolutely no idea what a "blue middle finger" or a "blue glock" are. I am assuming that they refer to pills purveyed as "ecstasy." In such a case, these informal marketing "brands" offer absolutely no indication of the pill composition. There is a great deal of uncertainty and variability concerning pills touted as ecstasy and color, stamp, or monicker are not indicative of the constitution.

Without proper testing procedures, there is no way for SWIY to accurately determine the ingredients of his pills.

Regardless, if we are to assume that the "blue middle fingers" are predominantly MDMA and the "blue glocks" are predominantly amphetamine, I will issue one caveat. Though there may not be imminent dangers associated with combining MDMA and amphetamine in moderate doses, the amphetamine will likely amplify many of the aversive side effects of MDMA such as tachycardia, dehydration, vasoconstriction, increased blood pressure, palpitations, and possibly anxiety.

Given that SWIY is likely already combining psychotropics, it may be imprudent to compound the uncertainty by throwing more substances into the enigmatic concoction. I will not advocate mixing multiple variations of pills that may be potentially deleterious when combined.

How can SWIY even be certain that these "blue middle fingers" are chiefly MDMA and that these "blue glocks" are primarily amphetamine? Without access to a lab or--at the very least crude testing procedures--SWIY can only speculate. Each of those "blue middle fingers" could vary dramatically in composition.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Good post, dont mind the stupid post below
	Great response
	Well written post.
	Patronising and stating the obvious.

[Qualityplant]

Swim wouldn't take them at the same time because swiy's heartrate might go through the roof and end up being way too speedy and then the comedown would not be fun.

Instead why doesn't swiy take the speed first, wait an hour or 2 and then start the mdma, make it a slow build up.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Bad advice. An hour or two... is that a slow build up?

[FooManChoo]

It's really personal prefernece and how swiy wants the night to go. But swim would save the speedy one till last when he's starting to maybe feel a tad burnt out.

[KomodoMK]

Little fishy and a good friend of his used to take numerous decent (MDMA) pills on a Friday night and really enjoy mixing it with base (amphetamine) and carry on going for 2 days straight. Neither suffered with serious comedowns, although this was probably due to serious tiredness and drinking alcohol for 40+ hours straight.

However, it can be very dangerous and is not recommended whatsoever. Either substance alone can put quite a lot of strain on your body. Know your source, know your body, know your mind. Everyone is different.

[Lettish]

Do you know what Swim would do? He would split the 'blue glock' into 3 (if possible) and consume one third with each 'blue middle finger.' This would give Swim normal pill effects but the addition of a little speed would really help things along, especially duration.

Reputation Comments on this post:

This is much BETTER advice, both for experience and damage limitation

[Cryptic Concoction]

Originally Posted by Lettish

Do you know what Swim would do? He would split the 'blue glock' into 3 (if possible) and consume one third with each 'blue middle finger.' This would give Swim normal pill effects but the addition of a little speed would really help things along, especially duration.

There is absolutely no way to ascertain that this would give him "normal" pill effects, given that he cannot accurately determine the contents of these pills.

[KomodoMK]

Originally Posted by Cryptic Concoction

There is absolutely no way to ascertain that this would give him "normal" pill effects, given that he cannot accurately determine the contents of these pills.

Your assuming by pill he means MDMA. I took it in the context the user has taken the pills before and so he will experience the 'normal pill effects' regarding previous experiences + the speedyness of the meth/speed pill.

[Cryptic Concoction]

True, of course there is no way to verify that the pills will be consistent. SWIM has had pills of the same color, stamp, and source that rendered entirely different effects.

[FrogEye]

Originally Posted by Cryptic Concoction

True, of course there is no way to verify that the pills will be consistent. SWIM has has pills of the same color, stamp, and source that rendered entirely different effects.

I think everybody here already knows this as all of our friends are users, but we can generalize that X pill usually gives X effect, especially if its a new batch.

[RaverHippie]

Originally Posted by FrogEye

I think everybody here already knows this as all of our friends are users, but we can generalize that X pill usually gives X effect, especially if its a new batch.

it's always something that can be forgotten, any one pill can be bunk or poorly mixed, or better than some of the same batch, so automatically applying the experience from on pill in the batch won't always be true for the rest.

Reputation Comments on this post:

this is always good to remember. x does not guarantee x

[Samadhi]

Swim steers clear of pills for reasons like this above.

MDMA is not too hard to come by in the right locations/circles and if swiy has no other option besides pills, buy a bulk quantity of previously tested pills (yes, please test pills, keep safe) from the same batch and run a wash on them, the end result will be the MDMA/MDxx in crystal form, weigh and dose as swiy sees fit.

playing the guessing game is a no-no for a responsible drug user

Reputation Comments on this post:

	very good advice
	Very true. Guessing with substances administered to one's body is never a good idea.
	Good safety advice

[Lettish]

Originally Posted by Cryptic Concoction

There is absolutely no way to ascertain that this would give him "normal" pill effects, given that he cannot accurately determine the contents of these pills.

Swim is going off what the original poster said. His query was not about the content of the pills, it was about how would be best to consume the 4 pills in question.

[Cryptic Concoction]

Originally Posted by Lettish

Swim is going off what the original poster said. His query was not about the content of the pills, it was about how would be best to consume the 4 pills in question.

I understand that. What I am saying is that it is very difficult to safely direct him in which pills he "should" take in order to achieve specific effects, given the enigmatic and inconsistent nature of pills purveyed as ecstasy.

I cannot assume that his understanding of the composition of the pills is accurate and issue a recommendation based on that assumption.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Yes, Swim does concur to some extent.

[FrogEye]

Originally Posted by Cryptic Concoction

I cannot assume that his understanding of the composition of the pills is accurate and issue a recommendation based on that assumption.

Then don't post if your going to reject his question and instead make accusations about whether or not he knows what he's talking about. My point being is that we have to try and keep this the friendly community that i love so much. You probably had good intention but try and be a bit more friendly about it ya know? You come across as being stuck up.

[FooManChoo]

Not gonna say who swim is agreeing with but he's agreeing with somebody. Some people really wanna overdo things with technicalities sometimes. In saying that all swiys know it's best to play safe but please...

[Routemaster Flash]

In SWIM's experience, the variance of effects (and therefore, presumably, composition) of ecstasy pills is massively overstated. SWIM has had pills that felt very speedy (so probably full of, er, speed!) and pills that were both speedy and trippy (consistent with effects of MDA), and on a couple of occasions pills that've been complete duds. But the vast majority have been basically consistent with containing MDMA, or mostly MDMA with a touch of amphetamine. In 6+ years of clubbing, SWIM is yet to encounter the dreaded ephedrine/DXM/DOB/heroin (...) pill we're so often warned of. Not saying they aren't out there, just that (in London, in the past 6-7 years) they must be pretty rare.

SWIM would guess the supposed threat of pills that contain anything and everything has arisen because of an exaggeration by anti-drug 'educators' of a small (though real) risk of dangerous/unpredictable adulterants, and 'MDMA elitists' who think that unless the batch was cooked up for you personally by Dr. Shulgin that it's probably going to poison you.

Edit: lots of pills containing piperazines going around the UK and Ireland at the moment, SWIM hears. Consistent with his own experiences in the past year or so, actually. Probably worthwhile sticking to crystal MDMA if you can get it.

Reputation Comments on this post:

A lot of truth in the 'overstated', but good to know that it is possible to get what one did NOT bargain for

[KomodoMK]

Little fishy has always had pills that contain MDMA or MDA with varying degrees of strength, this was when he was using every weekend and sometimes more often in 2005-2006. After which he switched to almost pure crystal MDMA.

Little fishy tried some pills this weekend after all this time and found they were just mCPP. So he asked around many contacts in the south east and midlands of the UK and found that for the best part of this year most pills have contained mCPP, BZP or another Piperazine or mixture of. So it does seem the quality has dropped some what.

Little fishies best friend is getting some new ones tonight, she is going to try them at the weekend and let him know. x Cross fingers! x

[Cryptic Concoction]

Originally Posted by FrogEye

Then don't post if your going to reject his question and instead make accusations about whether or not he knows what he's talking about. My point being is that we have to try and keep this the friendly community that i love so much. You probably had good intention but try and be a bit more friendly about it ya know? You come across as being stuck up.

It wasn't a matter of rejecting his question. It was a simple matter of qualifying any recommendations about what SWIH "should" take, when none of us can accurately determine the contents of the pills he possesses. I also did not make "accusations." I simply stated the fact that without an accurate way to test the pills, he cannot know the contents of the pills. He can only speculate based on the information available to him. I was not aware that harm reduction and attempting to caution those who use illicit drugs that they can not be sure of the composition of their pills was being "stuck up" or unfriendly.

I made absolutely no personal attacks; I merely cautioned him that there is no way to divine the contents of the pills. Advising people of risks does not constitute insulting them or accusing them. I think it is absolutely necessary that people be informed. Disseminated information regarding the potential dangers of drugs will not hurt anyone, and I do so lest someone make an uninformed decision. I cannot ascerain what a person is or is not aware of. I can only offer the information that I have at my disposal so as to ensure that people have knowledge available to them.

I would like to know where I was unfriendly in my attempts to promote circumspection when one is using a substance that can dramatically alter the functioning of one's body. I made no "accusations." It is a simple fact that none of us can be sure what pills purveyed as ecstasy contain without testing procedures. I am a forthright and matter of fact person. I say what I wish to say. I apologize if others interpret this as being cold, alooof, or unfriendly, but I take umbrage at you assailing me with insults.

My posts has the sole intent of harm reduction. How have I harmed anyone else in my attempts to inform others who may or may not be informed? I can not be sure of his knoweldge, so my attempts to inform him are by no means patronizing or haughty.

[KomodoMK]

I completely agree with Cryptic on this one, this forums main goal is harm prevention and his posts (not just this one) have this in mind - how is that a bad thing? It isn't stuck up or unfriendly to share knowledge and information or provide an opinion, if anyone believes it is so, then I would suggest they are taking his post(s) out of context.

At the end of the day his only trying to help and do so in a safe and efficient way, it's up to the user weather they wish to heed his advice or not, but it doesn't hurt to have the information/knowledge there on which to base a decision.

[Cryptic Concoction]

I would like to say that I am not attempting to impose my beliefs on others or dictate how they use their bodies. I simply believe that it is paramount that potential drug users have as much information as possible from all perspectives. The more information from different perspectives drug users have at their disposal, the better they can properly assess the merits and potential dangers of drug use.

That is my goal: information. I value the information of those who have slightly less cautious perspectives than mine, as it allows drug users to examine their potential behaviors from a variety of vantages. My perspective is not anymore important than anyone else's, and I think that when all of our perspectives are integrated into a more comprehensive whole, that unit is greater than each of the individual perspectives.

I am not asking that anyone share my opinion or my circumspection. I simply wish to allow potential users to access this information and my caveat if they so choose to heed it.

I do not attack people on this forum, though I do issue caveats just in case they might not be aware of certain dangers. Even if the original poster is already aware of such dangers, another person perusing these threads may stumble upon the information and at least consider it.

I think that it is very important that sites devoted to drug knowledge yield information from a variety of perspectives, analyzing the positives and negatives of this controversial subject matter.

Above all things, I believe in freedom of information, freedom of body, and freedom of mind. Freedom of information allows others to make informed decisions pertaining to behaviors that will affect their minds and bodies.

Many of us live in societies where the almighty government refuses to disseminate information from an unbiased perspective. The information they deliver is inextricably interweaved with their agenda. The only way I know how to combat a drug policy and a means of providing "information" that I do not agree with is through wielding the power of information. The government despots have no interest in harm reduction, and they have no interest in education that is not in alignment with their conditioning system.

If the original poster feels in some way belittled by my posts, I can assure you that this was not my intent.

[tweakette]

DO NOT MIX THE TWO! Swim has done this twice and it is horrible, not fun, makes you feel like totally out of it. It just isn't fun, do each separately. Even waiting a few hours in between doesn't matter. Get sober from one before you do the other.