Journal - Hey everyone, need some words

[rokman nash]

Teddy do you have family close that will support you to get off the junk.I can PROMISE 2 weeks away from it and you will have a change of attitude. My friend has looked insidethe barrel of his 357 in the last month at least a dozen times. The only reason the trigger wasn't pulled was because of the other people it would effect not my "friend".Dude if you want some horror stories pm,and i'll share mine dont make them for your family and friends.

ROC
do the day or the day will do you

[teddybearpicnics]

Originally Posted by rokman nash

Teddy do you have family close that will support you to get off the junk.I can PROMISE 2 weeks away from it and you will have a change of attitude. My friend has looked insidethe barrel of his 357 in the last month at least a dozen times. The only reason the trigger wasn't pulled was because of the other people it would effect not my "friend".Dude if you want some horror stories pm,and i'll share mine dont make them for your family and friends.

ROC
do the day or the day will do you

hey rockman thanks for the words, swim has gotten off it for around a month a couple times, and there's just certain things that trigger swims usage, now for why i don't just use that day, swim thinks it is because he is a junkie and he really loves getting high...he knows that he should get off the drugs but he can't help it. swim doesn't need horror stories, his life is a tragedy. but thanks, if you want to share though i will def read. swim feels so bad about his parents he puts them through so much worry, but if they knew how swim was feeling they would maybe understand why he uses drugs like he does. but oh well, swim is just taking it one day at a time, trying to cope with the depression.

oh yeah, if he could be with his girl it would be much easier and he thinks that it wouldn't be so hard to get off...but when there is nothing in swims life that he feels good about other than drugs and this fucking site, it just keeps him in limbo. that's all for now.
.teddy

[Dickon]

Please don't read this post....

Moral of this thread: Quit drugs and discover what gravity is about. It's something to do that might keep people from feeling so depressed!! [I'm being facetious of course. My wife suffers from depression, and I don't underestimate its effects]. Let me just say that of course there is a mystery to life. I think physicists are often barking up the wrong tree, in that not only do they seem to want a theory of everything, they want a theory of a theory of everything. The first thing I always ask after looking at a question is "what would an answer look like?"; it gives a ball-park as to what kind of answer to expect. In 1915, or shortly thereafter, did we think we understood gravity, or perhaps better, did 2 or 3 people at the time think they understood it [Does anyone know the story of a physicist, who when being told he was one of 3 people on earth who understood general relativity replied, "who's the third?"]? Can we ever understand anything? What does an "understanding" look like? Even if Newtonian mechanics or G.R. were perfect theoretically, we can't mathematically solve the 3 body problem except approximately. Chaos and Heisenberg also have put the kibosh on determinism. I suppose I'm trying to say we'll never understand anything in some sense. But a dog catches a ball, so he understands enough about gravity for his needs! We can predict eclipses, work out the precession of mercury etc. etc.

Karma is usually totally misunderstood. I was taught once that Karma meant simply "consequences of a singular action". Understanding Karma is simply about analyzing possible consequences of an action, and is a totally amoral principle. I was taught this in the context of Zen, and I think this differs from the more usual Hindu concept of Karma, which usually involves reincarnation etc. Perhaps if you believe in (Hindu) Karma it is self-fulfilling. Do good, think good, feel good! Feeling good = the universe is good. It's possible. Here's a lesson in (Zen) Karma, taking opiates combined with addictive personality ---(in a high probability)----> bad consequences. Ergo, use Karma to realize you're probably better off quit.

Bad things happen to good people. That's a fact. The idea that the disabled people are disabled because they've been bad is simply appalling to me, and what's more, it's wrong. That we are not all-knowing does not imply an all-knowing thing exists!

I'm not going to sugar-coat it, life can be shit as well as wonderful. The mind creates most of the shit and most of the wonder, and the lesson to learn is how to create your environment. That means understanding yourself and the world, and what works for you. It's no good saying "Life would be better without drugs", or some such, if you've no way of getting from here to there.

Excuse the rant or maybe anti-rant (you were warned not to read this post!)

Dickon

[teddybearpicnics]

Originally Posted by Gappa

How are things going now? If you don't mind me asking?

things are going okay...swim used 2 times in the past like 12 days, so he thinks that's alright...the one time was because his girl called him, and it was a rather crushing convesation, just a bunch of meloncholy banter, and swim couldn't help but numb his brain...the suboxone is a huge help, if swim didn't have that he would be using every day...but as for my girl, she is doing good...pretty depressed, but she has the right attitude of just getting through it and trying to make the best of it instead of fighting it. thanks for the inquiry though.

once again i meant nothing personal about my words in the previous post, i agree that there is a fine line of trying to understand peoples sentiments through reading an online post that comes from various forms of altered-consciousness, by either the poster or the reader, and that sarcasm and seriousness can often be misconstrued with one another. buttttt it doesn't matter, it's just a forum...sometimes people, including myself, take the words too seriously, so for previous and future rants, apoligies.

as for today, swim thinks he's going to end up using...it's sunday, swim doesn't have to go back to work until wendesday...and like johnny cash said...

On a Sunday morning sidewalk
I'm wishing Lord that I was stoned
'Cause there's something in a Sunday
That makes a body feel alone.
And there's nothin' short of dyin'
That's half as lonesome as the sound
Of a sleepin' city sidewalk
And Sunday mornin' comin' down.

Originally Posted by Dickon

Please don't read this post....


Excuse the rant or maybe anti-rant (you were warned not to read this post!)

Dickon

dickon, good rant. enjoyed that one.
.teddy

[Gappa]

Awesome! I'm not trying to stir a hornets nest and I am glad you all see that. I want to know what others think and why. Beliefs,religeon? race, all different how we relate to each other is what is extremely intriguing to me. Why one is Happy and the other sad, what their life means to them.
I often ponder the unponderables, what is the meaning of life if any.
Dr D, I do concur a using addict is usually an unhappy person. I feel an inner peace "even though there have been some bitch times" when I don't use.
handicapped people are not fucked up! some people call them a "mistake" contrary they may and can be some of the happiest people around.
Teddy don't sweat the girl! Gappa is looking on the bright side as he always does and thinks there could be a good reason why the two of you are not together at this moment. I couldn't have imagined it at the time, when my first wife left me, it nearly destroyed me. I loved her with my whole heart 4 sure. SWIM moved to the country and smoked $150,000 worth of rock and did nothing for 2 years except think about how awful SWIM's life was.
6 years later..Now I have the most wonderful wife and 2 beautiful children, my own biz, house etc..etc and am clean "he says excitedly"lol
I couldn't see past that point.
Einstein thought he was a failure in life and ended up becoming one of the worlds greatest minds. Hmmm
Good stuff guys! I must say I am thoroughly enjoying this thread.

[Gappa]

The upside Legend, is what get's us into trouble. I would like to be able to forget what a good buzz feels like. If we never knew what it was like we probably wouldn't want it.
No one here dissagrees that they "drugs/your DOC" make you feel great at 1st but with that you have to accept the reality of the downside and if it is worth it to continue to use.

Gappa added 1 Minutes and 33 Seconds later...

In NA they say that if there were no other people in the world it wouldn't matter if U use or not. It's really not what you do to yourself it's how it affects the ones around you.

Gappa added 1 Minutes and 52 Seconds later...

I have heard many say, "I don't want to do this particular drug or whatever because I know I will like it too much"

Gappa added 40 Minutes and 25 Seconds later...

You still have to worry about bills and the rest of shit that comes with life. When you choose to use and "forget" these things this is when, shall we dare say "rock bottom" occurs. Drugs don't make you forget about your life they numb your mind into not caring about what is happening around you. touche

Gappa added 25 Minutes and 50 Seconds later...

If SWIM were to have back all the money he has spent on drugs over the years he would be a millionaire by now. LITERALLY!

[Gappa]

Gappa likes how Betsym thinks.. People don't like hearing "be positive" all the time. At certain times in SWIMs life people spouting stuff like that would've got told to get straight fucked.

[youdontknow]

Gappa

The upside, is not, in my opinion, what gets you in trouble.

The upside being:

Feeling awesome from it, forgetting all your troubles and worries.

The downside of course being becoming addicted to it and having to do the things that WILL get you in trouble for it.

The upside couldnt really be called the upside if it got you in trouble!!

[Gappa]

True, SWIGappa loves/loved to get high too Legend. Really good shit! wooooowwweeeeee, scares the shit outta SWIM, that "upside" starts the insanity. Chasin' that dragon baby. run run run MORE MORE MORE! wheeew SWIY can't do that no mo! Once that fire is lit it becomes harder and harder to put out. You are a little younger than me, not that that really means anything, but after 10 20 30 years of using SWIY looks at it, her, H a little differently. SWIM remembers when he was your age how much better it seemed then. As I have gotten older it started to loose it's appeal more and more till now I can hardly stand it any more.

[youdontknow]

no man, the honeymoon is definately over for swim. Its stopped being fun. Like i said, eventually the upside starts to not be worth the downside.

[Gappa]

Honeymoons usually last a short time. Life is good for a while then she turns into a real bitch and getting the divorce is the hardest part, cause you know u love her but also know she gotta go sometime. Cool

[Gappa]

At least you have parents that support you... when swims folks split for a short time, albiet he took his anger out on them with a sawed off shotgun to their house. Blew EVERYTHING to smithereens.. Almost went to jail over it but the house was a total loss. Just be glad you have folks that are supportive even if they don't completely understand what u are going through. Hang in there bro! All will be well, trust SWIM on this

[Gappa]

Betsym dosen't understand the circumstances. The house had already been destroyed by hurricane Isabelle. I had just returned from a WILD time in Las Vegas to find all of this! My folks had split under some fucked up circumstances, my mom cheated on my dad for doing some other fucked up shit. Isabelle damaged the house beyond repair, I just finished the job off. I am not a violent person, although a second degree black belt in Mi-Ki-Do "My powerful way" and trained by one of the most skilled fighters in modern history "IMOnly" and fought in the ring for 10 years and nearly killed every opponent I ever faced.. one never recovered which I still feel bad for to this day. That said,.. my "chi" is in a more balanced state now and am at peace with who I am now. I am sharing some of my past experiences which make me who I am today. Judge me as you all will. I have a peaceful life now with 2 beautiful children and violence is all in my younger years.. Unless my family is in danger "The Beast" [my stagename] will never return.

[rokman nash]

Teddy your girl is in rehab, thats a fact . you can't be with her right now. Get YOUR house in order (get under control). You can not reunite as a junkie.If this is the ONE proove it. Meet her as a sober MAN. MAN not a boy. Your descision has been made you just can't see it.Do it bro two junkies don't make a viable couple.

ROC

[teddybearpicnics]

Originally Posted by rokman nash

Teddy your girl is in rehab, thats a fact . you can't be with her right now. Get YOUR house in order (get under control). You can not reunite as a junkie.If this is the ONE proove it. Meet her as a sober MAN. MAN not a boy. Your descision has been made you just can't see it.Do it bro two junkies don't make a viable couple.

ROC

Okay ROC, my girl went to rehab not by choice, so who knows if she is even going to stay sober. SWIM agrees he needs to get off the junk, what addict doesn't. He just really enjoys getting high, and he is not acting like a junkie as of this happening, in the past month, maybe longer, has used maybe 4-5 times...Sure that's no action for a fucking purple heart...but as the last four years have been, It's the best track record he's ever had. Sooooo, please don't refer to me as a boy, you don't know me, and i'm far from a schoolchild.

As far as two junkies don't make a viable couple, does being on drugs make love impossible? I'm pretty sure that I love my girlfriend, and drugs don't take anything away from that. Our situation would be different if we both didn't get laid off within 2 weeks of each other, and couldn't pay our bills. We were functioning addicts, we went to work, we paid our bills, and we used drugs. Not viable. In this day and age, to swim that is doing alright. Not a rant, just standing up for some respect. Love you all.
.teddy

teddybearpicnics added 16 Minutes and 35 Seconds later...

Oh sorry for double posting...But Betsym, like you, I am a writer as well...and you are a kind soul that I wish there were more people like you. I spend a lot of time on this site trying to inform people and help them, so we are kindered-spirits of the same heart. It IS a great feeling when you know you helped someone in a time of need, no matter what it be.

As far as a daily fix, there is no need for you to be me mum, but you can PM me and i'd love to keep in touch and be there to support you, as well.

To answer your question about how swim has been coming along...Well today was definitly rough, she got discharged because her insurance wouldn't cover her any longer. Her parents picked her up, and they wouldn't let her use her car to see me. Swims license is suspended right now, so he couldn't go see her either. They took her home and made her pack her shit, and took her to Philly right away. Swim had a beat night at work, just really depressed...all either of us wanted to do was just spend a few hours together. Swim also feels let down because she didn't really try to make something happen, she could have stayed at her house for the weekend, but hates her moms lesbian partner, so she "couldn't stand to stay the night there." If she did stay there, I could have had a friend pick me up and take me to go see her. Just really feeling down, and I don't know the word, kind of betrayed, I know it's not the right word, but it's the only one I can think of. So then I came home from work and called her, and it was just a shitty conversation, both of us are just really unhappy. But time will tell. There is just so many things I have going against me, no license, debt, just got my hours cut at work. So it's going to be hard to save up money in a timely fashion to move out again, and I have to wait till april to get my license back, but hopefully by the time the license is back, I'll have enough money to move out, and things will be better, but for now it is just a constant looming depression that I can't get out of...and I hate it I'm usually not THIS depressed. But I think i've said enough for now, I think I've got a violin around here somewhere ::

.teddy

[Richard_smoker]

wow...reading thru this thread was very difficult for me.

Teddybear, many of the emotions that have fueled this thread are very hard for swim to read as they reminded him of many of his own depressing, harmful, self-loathing, despair, and the feeling that he was being "trapped" in a cage of his own design--trapped by time, trapped by separation of his love, torn by his profound love for a drug and his equally insane hatred for the same drug. Fear of being alone, fear of being dopesick, fear of being forced out of a relationship because of drugs, fear of never being able to KNOW for SURE what might have happened differently if he only had power over the drug.

Teddy, it seems that both of your most passionate love affairs--your girlfriend and the devil (opiates)--have been both painfully torn apart before your eyes into every possible extreme scenario...that is, right now, when viewed through your eyes, at this vantage point, you're seeing your relationship with your girlfriend as though it is still very real and simultaneously as though it has been completely destroyed--as though she has already found someone else to occupy her heart and someTHING else to occupy her thoughts besides the drug you two shared. Likewise, you're seeing the drug that has successfully brought you so much pleasure and misery as being BOTH something that you cannot let go of for fear of being forever separated from it--perhaps you're afraid that you haven't quite finished 'using-it-all-up' in terms of the pleasure the drug might still have in store for you…while at the same time, you see both the drug and the addiction for what it REALLY is--simply a chemical that you have grown 'attached-to' in terms of its effect on your mind, on your emotions, and on the way it has allowed you to deal with life in a more detached, less vulnerable way. In this regard, you see the drug as nothing but a HINDRANCE to your future, and if it doesn't destroy your current girlfriend-relationship, then you know that your drug use WILL do one of the following:
1) cause her to relapse after returning to the 'real world' from rehab,
2) lets say she returns to drugs not because of you, but because of her own choice (the ONLY reason someone could return to drugs…but let's just say that you legitimately tried to discourage her from using...while you continue to use)--in this situation, she will likely BLAME YOU (eventually) for causing her to relapse simply because you're an easy mark, for her subconscious blame-game if nothing else.
3) if not with THIS relationship, then in the future, your drug use will likely BECOME a hindrance to your future attempts at love and companionship. Look at what addiction has done with your current ideas of nurture, love, and companionship. It is very doubtful that your tactics and intimacy will actually improve without doing SOMETHING to alter, control, slow-down, or somehow manage your drug use.

It's more than simply a love/hate relationship with the drugs (as many of us seem to enjoy saying--as though we're totally disconnected to what the drug really means to us, as though we're totally oblivious to all the things we've knowingly, consciously sacrificed in our lives in order to fuel this obsession with getting high). It's FAR more than just love/hate.

As you're probably feeling with regard to your girlfriend, there's another dimension of opiate addiction that taps into your own sense of identity, your "comfort level" and it rips out everything you once knew as being human, and the days upon days and night after night you swallow that realization, and you beat yourself up over everything, you accept all the guilt and all the shame for everything that has gone wrong all around you, and then--just like clockwork--when these feelings of self-doubt and fear of knowing yourself completely BEGIN to materialize, you quickly turn to the devil (opiates) to quench your thirst, to absolve you of all the guilt, and to stop your mind from churning through some difficult-to-process shit.

But you're not stupid. You realize all along that these guilty feelings and the 'terror' hasn't really gone anywhere. you know that it has just been offered up temporarily to the devil...and by living out this cycle of guilt/fear/shame/loneliness that is quickly extinguished by getting high, you basically confirm your subconscious fears--whether they be fears of guilt, fear of isolation, fear of ourselves, fear of death, fear of WHATEVER...it becomes as though we actually ARE GUILTY (or isolated, or lonely) just because we've learned how to give in to our fears SO QUICKLY without even offering up a fight. One shot, and BAM! I'm over that issue… But after a while, after essentially conceding & giving in to your fears so many times, eventually your mind begins to behave as though you must BE guilty and reprehensible and thus deserving of abuse!

Just like falling in love with "the one," it seems like nothing will ever compare to the oneness and togetherness--the COMPLETENESS that you feel with opiates. But almost as soon as the addiction begins, it seems as though we begin a strange sort of "grieving" process as well--simultaneously while we're still 'falling in love' with the drug...it's like for some reason, we feel compelled to tell ourselves these totally mixed messages. i.e. Happy, euphoric feelings: "SWEET JESUS, THIS FEELING IS THE BEST EVER!!!" while simultaneously experiencing fearful thoughts that stem from fear of rejection, fear of loneliness, fear of isolation: "GOD, I'VE GOT TO HOLD ONTO THIS EXPERIENCE FOREVER!!! SOMEONE IS GOING TO TRY AND ROB ME!! SOMEONE IS GOING TO TRY TO STEAL THIS DRUG FROM ME!!"

I think that there's something inherently addictive about opiates specifically that ties into our intense subconscious fear of being forced out of something comfortable...forever. And this fear is so strong that it creates an obsession with "holding onto the drug" which is so intense that it almost makes it difficult for us to even ENJOY the drug!! It seems like all we think about from the very beginning of addiction is, how can we going to keep holding onto it forever.

Somehow, you've got to be real and honest with yourself. Unfortunately, there's really no way that I know of to deal with the regular up's and down's of life aside from all-out-quitting once-and-for-all, or at a minimum getting treated with buprenorphine or methadone and then later, after you've adjusted to being "the same" every day, you can begin a slow, purposeful taper down to zero with an absolute minimum amount of discomfort.

It doesn't necessarily have to HURT to get clean. In fact, just being open to the idea of quitting is probably going to be enough to propel you through the entire process of getting clean…it really is THAT FUCKING GOOD to finally, once and for all, get OFF that God-forsaken shit.

I mean, can you even imagine being able to meet your girl when she's on her way out of rehab & telling her NOT TO WORRY…that you've QUIT THE DRUGS AS WELL!??? Can you even imagine a situation where instead of YOU being someone she has been brainwashed to stay AWAY FROM---suddenly, you're her KNIGHT IN SHINING ARMOR?? (sorry for the cheesy cliché but it's late and I'm tired…)

I know that you're in a hell of situation, and I won't even pretend that I am THERE with you right now. Like I said, it was very difficult for me to even read through this thread.

Likewise, I know that it's probably just as difficult for you to realize that being quit could actually be BETTER or that it's even possible right now. But I will say that a great deal of members on this SITE knows what it feels like to be 'a junkie' and to 'love getting high' to the point where it has seriously impaired their better judgment and in many cases ruined their lives. But, in the end, those are all excuses made out of fear. Fear of failure, fear of withdrawal. Fear of everything.

If you're interested in quitting, then you should really let some people on this site know about it. It could change your life for the better. No rehab, no meetings, no bullshit.

Please forgive me for any assumptions or observations that I may have made incorrectly. Also, I apologize for being blunt. I am still learning how to manage my OWN emotions and words. I assure you that my heart is in the right place, or why the hell would I have written all this?? Obviously, I am no better than anyone else here…I have fucked-up far more relationships than I have repaired or maintained. I just truly believe that your situation is much more manageable than it SEEMS to you, right now. I truly do wish you the best in whatever you chose to do, and however you approach your these difficult tasks ahead of you. I always welcome any pm's or public discussion if you prefer. -DICK


p.s. i don't know if you realize it or not, but several of the people who have replied on this very thread are currently living their lives opiate-free, as ex-junkies who have utilized the support system inherent on THIS SITE to contribute to each other's evolving mental well-being as the process of cleaning-up runs its course, and we've been here for each other in times of crises or need. it may not be perfect, but it's serves for a pretty damn good support system if you ask me.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Wow....very helpful and supportive post

[teddybearpicnics]

Wow, This thread has been so all over the place...But hopefully a response like that will hopefully keep it on track. It's a beautiful thing how this site can help so much. It definitly has helped swim begin to learn to cope, god knows without this forum, swim would still be using daily.

Dick, I am not going to piece by piece respond to your reply, as that would just be benign, as swiy completely gets it. 99% of what was said, was an exact recitation of what swim feels.

As to where swim is currently at in this stage of the game...

Swim has 8 days clean from opiates. He has about 25/30 clean days in the past month. Sometimes it was exactly as swiy said, the beginning stages are filled with self loathing, feelings of guilt, wallowing in depression and anxiety, you name a negative feeling, swim has been beating himself up over it. There comes a time when swim cannot take it anymore. For example, one day swim got a call from his girlfriend, and it was just a very uneasing conversation, Swim got maybe 3 hours of sleep that night, was pissed off, depressed, again negative feelings you name it, swim felt it...So swim made a call., After shooting up, all those feelings dissipated away, but swim knew it was only going to be temporarly...but to swim, that was enough. Just a small escape from over a week long self imposed mental beat down was just the thing swim needed. Now he woke up the next day and continued down the path of using, he did this because it is so easy to fall back into the beast's grip. Well the following day, swim realize this, and decided that he wasn't going to use again. This is at around day 10, now swim is on day 29 +/-. So then the same process happened, swim lasted about 11 more days, and then had the same thing happened, a day off, filled with anguish etc etc and it sent swim went into a 3 day binge.

After that swim realized that he really needed to make up his mind. He has been clean ever since, and has felt really good about it. Good about the not using part. He is still filled with those feelings of guilt and lonliness, and a HUGE factor is the feeling of fear, fear of being alone, fear of not having that comforting drug even though it is so hated. fear of failure going into sober living.

Swim thinks those feelings are expected for anybody who has been on junk as long as he has, almost 4 years is a long time. Swim thought of it as look at all the changes he went through in HS, that was four years. And look at all the changes he went through being a junkie.....NOT MANY, aside from the fact that swim got more intelligent and a better guitar player, his life has not changed for the better. As many good changes that happened in 4 years before he became a junkie, MORE bad things have happened in the last 4 years. Swim is feeling really good about not using heroin, and hopes that the feelings stay that way.

Swim is also on suboxone. He has been tapering down, taking 4 mg's in the morning unless he feels fine then he waits until he needs it and will sometimes take 2 mg's. It has been going as good as swim thinks it possibly could.

Although filled with depression about his girl and life in general, swim isn't really missing the drug. Instead, he is missing his old self and has hope that he can get off it for good. He has been planning concerts and to get back on the mountain to snowboard, and to save all the money he would ususally spend on dope, and start buying things that have meaning.

As for his girl, she was discharged on friday ::today is monday:: and she is feeling the same way, depressed and lonely, but in rehab they took her off the suboxone, so she is completely drug free. She is in philly, and we still haven't seen each other. This is where swim is very distraught...She is an adult, but yet she is acting like she is 17 and her parents still have control of her. She is 22 years old. When she came home, her parents told her that she could stay there for the weekend, but that she couldn't drive her car. She said that she couldn't stand her moms lesbian partner, and that she wouldn't spend one night there. So, they made her pack her stuff up and immediately took her to Philadelphia. This greatly upsetted swim, because even though he understands her not wanting to stay with that bitch, she could have made a better effort to see her man. He would have done it for her, and just felt very let down. She knows now how swim feels. And has been very discerning to the situation. Instead of getting happy when swim has been talking to her. He's been getting sad and lonely. This seems normal enough, and swim thinks it would be different if they could have spent even 10 minutes together when she came back. Swim is going to take a train down there next week. So we will see what happens, But this is just so rough, to be stripped of my two loves instantly, abruptly, and with no time to plan. Swim doesn't miss the love affair he was having with opiates, but that is being said for the time being. Lonliness has a way of pulling a sneak attack, and it comes at the least expected of times. Swim thinks though that if he had his girl by his side, fighting that beast would be MUCH easier, to have a helping hand, and something to keep swim smiling, and like you said in a different thread, LOVE is the biggest factor. So time will tell. Thank you all for reading this post, and giving swim the help he needs. Like he said, this wouldn't have been possible without you ladies and gents. So from the bottom of MY heart, thank you.

.teddy

[rokman nash]

Teddie accentuate the positive,you will be together soon. I'll never forget leaving for an oversea tour 3 days married, so understand and feel your pain.
Your girls parental issues are an obstacle i don't envy you. But they will resolve themselves in time
I'm proud of your efforts to stay sober/not use and any words or help I can provide I will.I apologize for some of the approaches i've used to you in the past. Being newly sober with 16 days my friend dave is sorta feeling his way.Dave was a uapologetic junkie for 4 years with the money to do it right. He's not bragging just letting you know he's been where you have been.We hope nothing but the best for you and your girl, you just might need to prepare mentally to go this alone.


ROC
do the day or the day will do you

[teddybearpicnics]

Hey rok, thanks. It's good to know that there are people on here who can actually relate to the exact same feelings, and lives. Not that swim is happy that anyone else has ever felt them, but you know what I mean.

I don't know if her parents will come around, hopefully, but who knows. Her dad likes me and always has. Her mom and partner, different story.

Don't worry about the past man, this is a forum of agitated junkies, and even though we all help each other, it's expected to say something that might get an agitated response, don't worry about it!

/teddy

[rokman nash]

Fuck her mom and partner you wont change their minds,work on the dad thats your in bro.As far as distance relationships go ,they go two ways. Either you become closer by being apart, or you grow apart.Unfortunatly I"ve dealt with both sides and unforunatly the later is the norm (though I've had it work both ways). was away a year and came home to a strong loving relationship. Was away 2 months and got the jody letter (fucking cunt). So good luck with it bro.

Keep up the good fight with the junk, my friend is on
17 days cold of huge doses of junk so it can be done.


ROC
do the day or the day will do you

[Richard_smoker]

oh ok i guess this is your thread, huh teddy?

well i think you're doing a good job. i don't think that a few screw ups will do anything to keep you out of the process of recovering. The only issue is that you might never get into the phase 2 (PAWS) unless you give it some more time. being 9 days out, you should be pretty damn close to it now.

here's a test: how are you sleeping? and what time do you wake up in the mornings?

-DICK

[teddybearpicnics]

Well dick, have you read the update? about being on the suboxone, about 2-4 mg's a day, sometimes 6 for the past month or so, tomorrow swim is going to go with a constant dose of 2 mg's for about a week, and then down to just a fraction of a pill...swim has been sleeping amazing, surprisingly. going to bed at around 4 am, waking up around noon or 1...swim works nights so this is why such a late night bedtime. But, as far as the PAWS, swim thinks they will be minimal because of such a rapid taper on the suboxone...does swiy agree? maybe a couple restless nights, but swim is going to have some 2mg k-pins for the day and some seroquil for the nighttime for the first 4 days after being completely off any opiate. And the timeframe has been like this, 10 days clean, 2 days using, 8 days clean, 3 days using, 9 days clean. give or take swim has not been keeping tabs on it. he thinks it's best that way. sorry for the jumbled post, teddy had a rough day today, and is just replying because he is trying to keep his mind off the other shit that went down. thanks though so much for all the kind words.
.teddy

[Richard_smoker]

actually that's a pretty good plan. you should be able to avoid most of the actual withdrawal doing it this way. that's the very best way to take subs.

congrats. i saw where you said something about taking 4's then down to 2's. i didn't realize you were planning a full taper. that's great.

what's gonna be important is that you try to stay busy and just keep on going. sometimes the experience of paws isn't really much of anything. it all really depends on what you make of it. just like anything i guess. if you notice, i've been having a blast on it. if it makes me where i can't sleep, then i try to get up and do something constructive. it's really not that bad of insomnia--like the kind where you're dead the next day if you only get an hour or 2 of sleep. it's almost like you're wired the next day. that's why you couldn't sleep in the first place. once i realized that i was a whole lot cooler with the whole process.

i think it's a great plan. keep us informed on how each drop goes in the dose. you know, one thing about buprenorphine that you may or may not know is that it's actually active at doses as low as 0.2mg. that's 1/5 of 1mg. you might want to cut a day out of the 2mg and 1mg weeks. that way you can also stretch out almost a week of 0.5mg/day after you're done with 1mg. not only will this help smooth things out but as long as there's a tiny bit of subs in your body, that means you've got the opiate receptor blockade going on which should make relapse VERY hard.

GOOD LUCK! -DICK

[teddybearpicnics]

To everyone that has helped swim this past month, I would like to thank you so much for helping that person. It has been one fucking hell of a ride, and everyone on here is such a great person to care so much about someone they don't even know. Swim is posting this because he is finally getting to go see his girl. He gets on a train at 9 am tomorrow morning and isn't coming home until xmas eve! THANK GOD. It's about time, and swim just wanted to let you all know the forum will not be his main source of entertainment for the next few days. It's finally time to get some pussy, it's finally time to feel good about himself, and it's finally time to find out if this is going to work out for swim and his girl.

Swim does have to make a confession, He used last night....no reason really, he just did. He doesn't feel bad about it. He is in a good head space where he is going to be a successful chipper, and very seldom at that. He will always be honest on this forum and wants people to whip him into shape ::hehehe emp....uhm huh cough:: when he gets out of line. Anyway, swim is going to pack and have a great 4 days.

.teddy

[ScorpioSunshine]

^^

Thanks for letting us know, Teddy. ;=)

Enjoy your time with your girl.

Keep it smooth, sweetie, lol.