Drug info - LSD not LSD? dots not mescaline?

[abraham]

Read a post about this somewhere before but just wanted to dicuss/clairify. This just came up with an old friend and he does not believe me when swim tells him that he has probably never taken mescaline before. Years ago in the 80's swius would take blotter acid and what we called dots, scleen, scleeners. Stuff like purple double domes, chocalate micro dots, rasberry, white lightning, etc... At the time and untill recently we thought these were mescaline and the blotter was LSD. However they are all in fact most likely LSD. Hoping someone even older/wiser than swim will chime with some good interesting facts. swim thinks that is/was a common misconception.

[Samadhi]

Speculation is not what we're here for. DOx chemical is likely, there were also tests and reports of PCP and LSD being pressed into dots and sold as "mescaline" in the late seventies.

Mescaline's average dose is anywhere from 200-450mg for a normal "trip", microdots can hold about 5-7.5mg of a substance, and an ecstasy pill can hold 150-175mg of a chemical so therefore, if the supposed dots contained mescaline, they'd have to be as big as a suppository (joke but seriously).

sooo... swiy's friend has most likely never taken mescaline.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	good facts, thanks
	accurate facts

[Koak]

Probably LSD but who ever said anything about not taking more than one of the small dots to make a full dose of mescaline?

Mescaline is much easier to extract than LSD is to synthesize, keep that in mind.

[Coconut]

OP, please read the rules on self-incrimination.

Unfortunately, DOx amphetamines are commonly sold as more popular psychedelics and an active dose can easily fit in a microdot.

As Koak said, LSD is much more difficult to synthesise than mescaline is to extract from cacti, so the probability of it having been LSD is low. Also, it simply isn't worth it to sell LSD as mescaline when LSD will probably attract a higher price.

In my opinion it would take a good few microdots to make up a full dose of mescaline whereas a single one can hold full doses of DOx compounds or LSD.

With more information about the trips experienced by SWIY and his friend we could try to determine what the substances were, although this would probably be fruitless. As Samadhi has stated, we're not fans of speculation.

[Micklemouse]

O.k., considering the OP is talking about the 1980's here, when many on here were but twinkles, or maybe only just winkles...

This could be one of those threads where a clue to location could help. A Certain Mouse can only speak about Merrie Englande & it's neighbouring countries at the time, but Microdots were indeed a very common & much sought after presentation of LSD at this time (& still are he supposes) , generally, although not necessarily, much stronger than the average blotter. Obviously, A Certain Mouse tells me he only ever had his Man's (in the non-gender specific meaning of the word of course!) word on what they contained, but everything about them screamed LSD, from onset time to bodyload, to experience.

As stated above, unless a ridiculous amount of these things were ingested to get an effect (& that would make no sense for a manufacturer to produce such a large number when only a couple or even 1 would suffice) then the chances of it being mescaline are indeed slim to non-existent. If it was the U.K. then the chances of it being anything other than LSD are likewise very low at the time being talked about.

Unfortunately there are no images in our own gallery close to the dots A Certain Mouse remembers, but these from Erowid are more representative he tells me...

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/show...microdots3.jpg

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/show...microdots1.jpg

Reputation Comments on this post:

Wise Mouse!

[abraham]

swius would usuallt take one or even a half. Onset 1/2 to one hour. Usually 45 minutes. Swim has taken blotter about 50+ times and the dotz were about the same, maybe worse sometime maybe better. Just that back in the day everyone in swims community called the dots mesciline. Hence the slang scleeners or scleen. Obviously just a misconception we had at the time. This is just speculation of ones past and not something that could hurt someone. I've always been curious. Some good info here thanks.
Somehow swims memory/typewriter went bad on swims first post. Keyboard/computer/memory started typing I insted of swim. Weird. Thanks for the heads up.

[drug-bot]

Myth Debunking
Mescaline in Microdots

by Fire Erowid
May 2001
Erowid Extracts #1

Citation: Erowid, Fire. "Myth Debunking: Mescaline in Microdots". Erowid Extracts. May 2001;1:10.

Rumors persist about tiny mescaline containing tablets. Some dealers will actually sell microdots as "mescaline" and it's not difficult to find people who will argue that the effects of these tablets are "definitely different than LSD". While many people know that it's just about impossible that a microdot or tiny pill would contain mescaline, it can be difficult to convince someone who just spent money to purchase the rare substance that they most likely bought LSD instead. In cases like this, references can be useful, and a picture is worth a thousand words.

1. A threshold dose of mescaline (the dose at which the smallest amount of recognizable effects can be felt) is somewhere around 100 mg. A normal active dose for most people falls in the 200-400 mg range.1
2. An average size MDMA tablet weighs around 250 mg, including all binders and fillers. In general, less than half of this weight is actually MDMA. Likewise there are pressed 2C-B tablets which weigh 45 mg and contain 5 mg of 2C-B, about 1/9 of their weight. A standard microdot weighs only 7.5 mg. Assuming that only 1/3 of this material is binders, that means a maximum of 5 mg of active material in the micro-tablet.
3. While there are a few psychoactives which are active in the 5 mg range, mescaline is definitely not one of them. It would be difficult to get a threshold dose of mescaline into a tablet even as large as an ecstasy tablet (similar in size to a standard advil or aspirin tablet). A full dose of mescaline (400 mg) barely fits into a fully packed large capsule with no fillers. At 5 mg of mescaline per microdot, it would take between 50 and 75 tablets to equal a single dose.

References #

1. Shulgin, Alexander & Ann. PiHKAL Transform Press, 1991. 702.

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mesc...ne_info2.shtml


thought this would be an interesting read, theirs no way an active dose of mescaline could fit in a micro-dot. the best bet is either a DOx compound or lsd, they could easily fit in the 7.5mg microdots.

microdots were popular in the 1980's at a time when lsd could still be found (much more so than today), so the manufactures called them mescaline (a well known substance but one which was very rare to come by).

[Samadhi]

The differences between LSD and Mescaline are very large, but that is the power of placebo I guess, give a man an orange, convince him it is an apple and he will eat it all up orange skin and all.

My guess is still on PCP or LSD or possibly a mix of the two, because if the dealer was smart and it was indeed good acid, he would proclaim it so instead of saying it was mescaline.

but as we all know (hopefully) playing the internet whatcha-mc-substance is never a good way to find out what they are.

[Songcycle67]

in SWIM's area mescaline fetches a larger price. Usually about three times the price of a hit of LSD for an ~360mg tablet. Mescaline can't fit on a microdot and I doubt there were many dottable RC's being made (at least for mass consumption) in the 80's. STP (DOM) was really the only well-known RC used widely for recreation until the early 90's and it has a threshold dose of around 5mg and is definitely distinctly different than an LSD trip.

Combinations of chemicals have been known to be pressed into microdots but generally all such combination batches are limited runs and available to limited populations.


The theory which includes the least speculation is usually the truest; my bet is going on it being LSD.

[TMM]

Identification is of course impossible at this point, but it's not mescaline unless it takes >2 hours to come on full and lasts considerably longer than LSD.

[abraham]

Swim knows it was LSD. Its just that is was a big misconception among swius back in the day. Some of swims friends still think is was mescaline. Hence the term scleeners or scleen. Just wanted to clarify for the masses incase this was a wide spred misconception.