Drug info - A question concerning various opiates

[Herbal Healer 019]

I have heard that Heroin is 1.5x more potent than morphine and that hydrocodone is as potent as morphine, and oxycodone is 1.5x as potent as hydrocodone. So if oxycodone is 1.5x stronger than hydrocodone, which, supposedly, is as potent as morphine, would that make oxycodone as potent as heroin?

[MEKONE]

Hydrocodone is a Codine derivative,Oxycodone is a Morphine derivative,Oxymorphone is also a morphine deritive about 10x more potent than Oxycodone.Keeping in mind that "H" transforms into Morphine once in the body in SWIM's oppinion the answer would be no,your better off comparing "H" to Oxymorphone.Dilaudid,however is about 3x stronger than "H".

[Solinari]

This is probably for oral routes of administration. Heroin is almost completely broken down to morphine when taken orally and morphine doesn't work nearly as well as hydrocodone orally. I can't say what the potency of heroin to morphine is, but i have seen up to 10x but that might be comparing IV heroin to oral morphine, i really don't know.

Reputation Comments on this post:

In correct.. the GI tract cannot absorb heroin like morphine or codine

[TheArchetect]

Originally Posted by MEKONE

Hydrocodone is a Codine derivative,Oxycodone is a Morphine derivative,Oxymorphone is also a morphine deritive about 10x more potent than Oxycodone.Keeping in mind that "H" transforms into Morphine once in the body in SWIM's oppinion the answer would be no,your better off comparing "H" to Oxymorphone.Dilaudid,however is about 3x stronger than "H".

Not quite... Oxycodone is a Papaverine derivative like say Demerol or other opioid derivatives.

On to the question at hand:

OXYCODONE:
The effects start in 10-30 minutes. Peak effects occur in 60-90 minutes and last for 4-6 hours.

Oxycodone has been reported to be as effective as morphine in relieving pain when given in equianalgesic doses and to cause less nausea, vomiting and hallucinations.


Effects are up to 8 times more potent than those of codeine. Oxycodone is similar to codeine and methadone in that it retains at least one half of its analgesic activity when administered orally.



SWIM was hooked for a few years on OXY so I got it. Good... a little too good, if ya know what SWIM means. PLUR

[Herbal Healer 019]

Ok just to clear up all the bullshit floatin around on this thread: oxycodone, oxymorphone, buprenorphine, nalaxone, nalbuphine, naltrexone, and etorphine are all thebaine derivitives

[MEKONE]

Originally Posted by Herbal Healer 019

are all thebaine derivitives

Ya' just beat me to that .

[mbarnes0]

I'm somewhat confused on this one from other internet sources that have different information. SWIM has found info saying that oxycodone, oxymorphone, nalbuphine, naloxone, naltrexone, buprenorphine and etorphine are thebaine derivatives. But I have also read that morphine is a required precusor to produce heroin (of course) but also oxymorphone and hydromorphone. So could someone straighten this out for me?

Sorry for all the links, I copied and pasted and they came with it.

[TheArchetect]

Originally Posted by mbarnes0

I'm somewhat confused on this one from other internet sources that have different information. SWIM has found info saying that oxycodone, oxymorphone, nalbuphine, naloxone, naltrexone, buprenorphine and etorphine are thebaine derivatives. But I have also read that morphine is a required precusor to produce heroin (of course) but also oxymorphone and hydromorphone. So could someone straighten this out for me?

Sorry for all the links, I copied and pasted and they came with it.

Heroin (INN: diacetylmorphine, BAN: diamorphine) is a semi-synthetic opioid synthesized from morphine, a derivative of the opium poppy. It is the 3,6-diacetyl ester of morphine (hence diacetylmorphine). The white crystalline form is commonly the hydrochloric salt diacetylmorphine hydrochloride, however heroin freebase may also appear as a white powder.

-WIKIPEDIA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin#Manufacturing

Says:
"Manufacturing Heroin is produced for the black market by refining opium. The first step of this process involves isolation of morphine from opium. This crude morphine is then acetylated by heating with acetic anhydride. Purification of the obtained crude heroin and conversion to the hydrochloride salt results in a water-soluble form of the drug that is a white or yellowish powder."


Glossary on terms used in FAQ

Natural (known as opiates):
Morphine
Codeine

Semi-Synthetic (known as opioids):
Heroin
Hydrocodone (Hycodan)
Hydromorphone (Dilaudid)
Meperidine (Demerol)
Oxycodone (Percodan)

Synthetic (also known as opioids):
Fentanyl (Sublimaze)
Methadone (Dolophine)
Propoxyphene (Darvon)
Pentazocine (Talwin)

Opioid Addiction and Withdrawal"
- EROWID
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/opia..._opioids.shtml

Oxycodone - synthesized from codeine


Morphine is isolated from crude opium, which is a resinous prep of the opium poppy, Papaver somniferum.



Codeine is found in opium in concentrations between %0.1 and %2. Because of the small concentration found in nature, most codeine found in medical products is synthesized from morphine via the methylation of the hydroxyl group found on the second non-aromatic ring.





Glossary:

opiate - narcotic analgesic derived from a natural source(opium poppy)
opioid - narcotic analgesic that is either semi or fully synthetic - also refers to entire family of both opiates and opioids

Hope that helps ya, wish I could find the CIA link I had... picture book style of heroin manufacture (from the CIA.GOV!) and classifications etc. PLUR - CRH

Reputation Comments on this post:

Nice info

[mbarnes0]

Thanks for the great info but I'm trying to figure out whether oxymorphone is derived straight from morphine or thebaine. I keep finding conflicting sources.

[TheArchetect]

Originally Posted by mbarnes0

Thanks for the great info but I'm trying to figure out whether oxymorphone is derived straight from morphine or thebaine. I keep finding conflicting sources.

Preparation of oxymorphone from morphine
Document Type and Number:
United States Patent 5922876


Abstract:
A process is provided for preparing oxymorphone from morphine by: (a) reacting morphine with an acyl halide or anhydride to form 3-acylmorphine, or (b) reacting morphine with benzyl-halide to form 3-benzylmorphine, and thereafter either by (3a) or (3b): (3a) introducing a β-oriented hydroxy group at the 14-position of the 3-acyl- or 3-benzyl-morphinone with aqueous hydrogen peroxide and an acid at at temperature of about 15° to about 70° C. to form the 3-acyl or 3-benzyl-14-hydroxymorphinone;
(3b) acylating the 3-acyl or 3-benzyl-morphinone with an acylating agent so as to form the dienol acylate followed by oxidizing the dienol acetate to the corresponding 3-acyl or 3-benzyl-14-hydroxymorphinone;
(4) hydrogenating the 3-acyl-14-hydroxymorphinone with a catalyst so as to form the 3-acyloxymorphone;
(5) hydrolyzing the 3-acyl-oxymorphone with aqueous acidic or basic solution to form oxymorphone;
(6) hydrogenating the 3-benzyl-14-hydroxymorphinone with a catalyst so as to form oxymorphone.



Patent info anyone... seems to come from morphine or codeine (al natural) opiates. PLUR

[MEKONE]

Here goes some more patent info:

"Process for Preparing Oxymorphone
Cross-Reference to Related Applications
[0001] This application claims priority to U.S. Provisional Application Serial No. 60/829,817, filed October 17, 2006, and U.S. Patent Application Serial No. 11/611,049, filed December 14, 2006, the contents of which are incorporated by reference in their entirety.
Background of the Invention
1. Field of the Invention
[0002] This invention relates to preparation of opiates such as 14-hydroxymorphinone, oxymorphone and naloxone from oripavine.
2. Background of the Invention and Related Art
[0003] Oxymorphone, a potent opiate analgesic, is a semi-synthetic substitute for morphine. It is about ten times as potent as morphine. In the United States, FDA has approved oxymorphone hydrochloride in oral, parenteral and suppository form. Naltrexone, methylnaltrexone, buprenorphine, nalmefene, nalorphine and naloxone are other useful opiates. [0004] Oxymorphone can also be converted to these and other useful compounds, such as nal- compounds, including naloxone.
[0005] Oxymorphone is typically synthesized using thebaine, morphine or another compound as a starting material. Thebaine, when used, is generally obtained from the concentrated poppy straw (CSP-T), a poppy extract relatively rich in thebaine.

There was ALOT more crap to read BUT apparently it's a mixture of diffrent things thats why I guess they claim it's 10 times as potent as Morphine.

[fiveleggedrat]

Originally Posted by mbarnes0

Thanks for the great info but I'm trying to figure out whether oxymorphone is derived straight from morphine or thebaine. I keep finding conflicting sources.

Both. Most substances can be made more than one way.

Oxycodone can be administered orally, intranasally, via intravenous/intramuscular/subcutaneous injection or rectally. The bioavailability of oral administration averages 60-87%, with rectal administration yielding the same results. Oxycodone is approximately 1.5× - 2x as potent as morphine when administered orally.[29],[30] However, 10-15mg of oxycodone produces an analgesic affect similar to 10mg of morphine when administered intramuscularly. Therefore as a parenteral dose morphine is approximately up to 50% more potent than oxycodone. [31] There are no comparative trials showing that oxycodone is more effective than any other opioid.

I have heard that Heroin is 1.5x more potent than morphine and that hydrocodone is as potent as morphine, and oxycodone is 1.5x as potent as hydrocodone. So if oxycodone is 1.5x stronger than hydrocodone, which, supposedly, is as potent as morphine, would that make oxycodone as potent as heroin?

It's too complicated to really boil it all down to just that. Potency of substances and all that is radically different for everyone. Method used also hugely affects and completely changes the equation. The heroin in question would also need to be completely pure to compare potency too.

[TheArchetect]

Originally Posted by fiveleggedrat

Both. Most substances can be made more than one way.





It's too complicated to really boil it all down to just that. Potency of substances and all that is radically different for everyone. Method used also hugely affects and completely changes the equation. The heroin in question would also need to be completely pure to compare potency too.

Yes sir it is!