Drug info - Painkillers

[NotImportant]

Swim here.

Swim has a severe knee problem, and the doctor wont prescribe any meds because of swims age. He says he isnt comfortable giving painkillers to 18 year olds. But swim has a big problem with it, and cant do the regular gym stuff in class. Like, for an example, swim can not run without being in extreme pain. The thing is that swims doctor says that it will get better if swim runs and trains the muscles around the knee more. But it feels like hell, and swim just cant run or do anything like that. Swim is therefore looking in on the possibility to get some kind of painkiller that will allow swim to exercise more, and not get the pain. Swim has gotten a little overweight because he cant move as much as he needs and should, and want to change this. He considered the speed dieting, but he would like to exercise first and try that. But for that, he needs something to kill the pain.

I have been looking around the forum, but cant find the answer Im looking for.

So, what would swiy recommend?

[cra$h]

swim's only going to get it if it's a 24hr thing, or inhibits necissary tasks, and not just for gym class. But good luck.

[pixplzthx]

SWIY is going to have a near-impossible time finding a doctor to give a "kid" narcotic relief. If SWIY is really in Norway, see if SWIY can find Nurofen Plus. It has 200 mg ibuprofen and 12.8 mg of codeine. The product is manufactured in New Zealand, so do some homework and see if SWIY can find it in a store or online.

It won't be much, but it will be better than what a pediatrician is going to prescribe.

[NotImportant]

Swim friend says he can get swim anything, as long as swim gives him the full name of it.
Ill do some research on Nurofen plus tho

[Herbal Healer 019]

Try kratom, its more potent than morphine (supposedly, although it certainly doesnt feel like it) & the high is almost comparable to poppy pods (morphine, codeine, papaverine, etc..)...It will provide pain releif, but its not too intense. Check the legality in SWIyou's area tho. Kratom is easily obtainable online, SWIM would recomend and extract 15x or higher; just google it for vendors.

[superdupernaut]

Originally Posted by NotImportant

Swim friend says he can get swim anything, as long as swim gives him the full name of it.
Ill do some research on Nurofen plus tho

swim wishes he had a friend like that.

if swiy really does, swiy shouldn't have a problem getting some effective medicine. Do your research, and start with small doses. Be wary of addiction.

[jon-q]

Originally Posted by NotImportant

Swim here.

Swim has a severe knee problem, and the doctor wont prescribe any meds because of swims age. He says he isnt comfortable giving painkillers to 18 year olds. But swim has a big problem with it, and cant do the regular gym stuff in class. Like, for an example, swim can not run without being in extreme pain. The thing is that swims doctor says that it will get better if swim runs and trains the muscles around the knee more. But it feels like hell, and swim just cant run or do anything like that. Swim is therefore looking in on the possibility to get some kind of painkiller that will allow swim to exercise more, and not get the pain. Swim has gotten a little overweight because he cant move as much as he needs and should, and want to change this. He considered the speed dieting, but he would like to exercise first and try that. But for that, he needs something to kill the pain.

I have been looking around the forum, but cant find the answer Im looking for.

So, what would swiy recommend?

Yet again I read a post and the words "PAIN,DOCTOR AND NO" are present,It's no secret that swims views on Doctors and there reluctance to prescribe "Pain Relief" medications to the suffering~Pisses him off~And of course there is always two sides to every story,but when a young adult seeks the help from a doctor and ends up posting on a drugs forum asking for help and makes mention of speed dieting!There is something seriously wrong!
If we take the request at face value-The following advice is based on research and personal experience only,swiq has no medical training or background.
The pain in swiys knee may be due to any one or a combination of various reasons-including- walking around in high heel shoes(you never know)to a simple bruise,fluid collecting behind the knee-cap,chiped bone,worn/broken cartalige e.t.c e.t.c.
As a previous swimmer has mentioned "IBUPROFEN" is a good anti inflamitry to begin with as this will help reduce any swelling in or around the knee and it has some pain killing effects although these are only secondary,in the long term swiimportant(swim is dropping the NOT)it may be of some benefit to take a supplement of some kind!may swim suggest "Glucosamine sulfate" this can aid in joint function by helping cartalige repair and re-build itself,Glucosamine also has some anti-infamitry activity.
Gentle exersise will help in adding strength to the knee but if the pain level continues swiyou must stop the exersise as this may may well suggest a more serious problem is the reason for your pain,try walking or gentle jogging on a soft surface like grass e.t.c.
Pain killers can help for short term relief but the cause of the pain needs to be found and cured instead of being masked,below is a list of pain killers in escalating strengths for comparison reasons an equal amount for each compound in mg will be shown.Start at the bottom and work your way up and with all the above substances always read the saftey info sheets that will come with the legit products and read up on the ones that have been obtained un-legit.
1)Asprin 1080mg ~This amount is for comparison only.75mg 2 times daily.
2)Codeine 30mg ~ 8-16mg would be a good start dose 2-3 times a day.
3)Tramadol 30mg ~ Same dose as above.
4)Dihydrocodeine 17mg ~8-10mg Good start dose 2-3 times daily.
5)Pethidine 8.3mg~If swiy is still feeling pain after 1-2 weeks and has tried the above medications swim-q would suggest you re visit your Doctor at this point.
6)Hydrocodone 5mg ~
7)Morphine 3mg ~
Hope this helps swiimportant out...Regards swi.....Q

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Helpfull
	those dosage reccomendations made no sense

[JarvyJarvison]

How long has this been going on? What's your diagnosis? SWIY will not get prescribed narcotics for minor aches and pains, especially at your age. Your definition of "extreme pain" will likely change as you get older ;-). SWIY should try giving low impact exercise a try. You can start by doing simple leg exercises like lifting your leg up and down and move up ones that may hurt a little more like squats. Bicycling would be a great way to get out and enjoy the air while exercising the legs at the same time. Good luck!

[NotImportant]

Swim damaged his knee when he was about 10 years and has been struggeling with it ever since. He has been in surgery in one of the knees, but they said it was nothing big. They cleaned it out, and all that. What the doctors are saying is that the legiment is too long. That swim stretched it out too much while he damaged it while skiing.He also has hyper thingy, meaning that I can bend my fiingers and the knee cap the wrong way. If you understand? And my kneecap is too small aswell. All this has been told to me from different doctors, and all they say is to excerice and that they dont reccomend painkillers or surgery because of my age.

Thanks for the information tho, swim am working out, but sometimes swim just cant because it hurts too much, and after excercise swim can hadrly move without it hurting like hell. And then it also is bad the next day. Swim is sure theres people out there with more severe pain and more severe damages, but this really is annoying swim alot. It is a drag. swim cant run. Something almost every 18 year old can pull off. It sucks. Do you understand?

[jon-q]

This article taken from Medscape (WWW MEDSCAPE.COM) may provide swiy with a little more detailed information(There is a lot take IN) Post swiys progress,Treatment and pain level increase/de-crease if swiy can..

Management of Chronic Knee Pain: A Survey of Patient Preferences and Treatment Received
Posted 10/20/2008

Helene L Mitchell; Michael V Hurley

Author Information

Information from Industry
Assess clinically focused product information on Medscape.
Abstract
Background: A range of interventions exist for the management of knee pain, but patient preferences for treatment are not clear. In this study the management received by people with chronic knee pain, their management preferences and reasons for these preferences were recorded.
Methods: At baseline assessment of a clinical trial of rehabilitation for chronic knee pain, 415 participants were asked about their i) previous management, ii) preferred treatment, if any, iii) whether they would undergo knee surgery and iv) reasons for their preferences.
Results: Previous management - Medication was the most common treatment, followed by physiotherapy, 39 participants had received no treatment. Preferences - 166 patients expressed no treatment preference. Of those who expressed a preference the most popular option was physiotherapy, whilst not having surgery was the third most frequent response. The most common reason for preferring physiotherapy and not wanting surgery was prior experience.
Willingness to accept surgery - 390 participants were not waiting for knee replacement surgery, and overall 81% would not accept surgery if offered, usually because pain was not perceived to be severe enough to warrant surgery.
Conclusion: Most chronic knee pain is managed with medication despite concerns about safety, efficacy and cost, management guidelines recommendations and people's management preferences. Previous experience and perceptions of need were major determinants of people's preferences, but many people were unaware of management options. Appreciating patient preferences and provision of more information about management options are important in facilitating informed patient/clinician discussion and agreement.
Trial Registration: Current Controlled Trials, ISRCTN 94658828

Background
Disabling chronic knee pain is very common. Although evidence-based guidelines recommend exercise, education, and medication, management of chronic knee pain usually involves palliative medication, in spite of its potential risks and costs. Fewer people are referred to physiotherapy and only people with severe, disabling pain are referred for total knee replacement (TKR) surgery.

There have been calls for management decision-making to shift from doctor-determined to one which includes greater patient involvement.This requires healthcare professionals understanding peoples' health beliefs and preferences, and appreciating that interventions that conflict with these beliefs and preferences may lead to dissatisfaction with care and non-adherence. It also requires that people are aware of management options and their consequences.

Studies of patient preferences provide valuable insights into the way individuals make decisions about treatment. When asked about pharmacological therapies, the most important deciding factor when choosing a treatment was the risk of adverse side-effects; people prefer less efficacious treatments that carry a lower risk of side-effects. However, if a patient's understanding of pain or the action of a medication is inaccurate or incomplete, this can strongly influence their treatment preference. When asked about surgery, Figaro et al identified six themes that explained participants' decisions not to undergo surgery (preference for natural remedies, negative expectations of surgery, belief in God's control, preference for continuing in the current state, relationships with specialists, fear of surgery or death), which were reduced to one super-ordinate theme - patients "did not want to be cut" and were prepared to put up with pain rather than risk the possible complications of surgery.

Peoples' treatment preferences for the management of knee pain, and the rationale for these preferences have not been investigated. In this simple survey we documented the treatment received by 415 people with chronic knee pain, their treatment preferences and rationale for these preferences, and matched treatment received and preferences against the recommendations of the three most important clinical guidelines for management of knee pain/osteoarthritis.

Participants were recruited from a randomised clinical trial (RCT) of rehabilitation for chronic knee pain. Broad inclusion criteria were adopted; participants had to be aged 50 years or older and have consulted a primary care physician for mild, moderate or severe knee pain of more than 6 months duration. Exclusion criteria were: lower limb arthroplasty; physiotherapy for knee pain in preceding 12 months; intra-articular injections in preceding 6 months; unstable medical conditions; inability/unwillingness to exercise; severe lack of mobility; inability to understand English. People were not excluded if they had stable co-morbidities common in this age group (e.g. type II diabetes, cardiovascular or respiratory disorders), back, lower or upper limb pain. The interventions compared were usual primary care and usual primary care plus individual or group rehabilitation. In total 418 patients were recruited from 53 GP practices in inner London, UK. Detailed description of the trial and intervention are available http://www.kcl.ac.uk/gppc/escape), but briefly, it was a pragmatic evaluation of a rehabilitation programme designed to improve self-reported function using exercise, education and self-management strategies to alter behaviour and dispel inappropriate health beliefs.

The study reported here is a simple overview of previous management and participants' treatment preferences in a relatively large cohort of people using a structured survey. During baseline assessment trial participants were all asked:


"What treatment have you previously received for your knee, for instance have you ever had drugs, physiotherapy, surgery, osteopathy, acupuncture, or any other treatment?"


"Given the choice of any treatment - drugs, physiotherapy, surgery, osteopathy, acupuncture, any treatment at all - do you have a preference for one over another? Why?"


"Are you on a waiting list for a knee replacement? (If response yes) Will you accept it when offered? (If response no) would you accept one if you were offered in the future?"

These or any other treatments participants reported they had received or preferred were noted on an assessment form, as well as interventions they did not want. No written notes or audios recordings were taken. There was no additional probing of patient's preferences.

Ethical approval was obtained from Local Research Ethics Committees of King's (Ref No. 99-261), St Thomas' and Guy's (Ref No. EC99/814) and Lewisham (Ref No. 00/04/09) Healthcare Trusts.

Statistical Analysis
Descriptive statistics for previous treatment, preferences, and willingness to undergo knee replacement surgery were calculated. Since the duration of knee pain was not normally distributed and there was a large disparity in numbers of participants who reported receiving treatment (n = 380) and those who did not (n = 35) the non-parametric Mann-Whitney U-tests was used to establish if there were differences in demographic factors (age, disease duration) between people who had received treatment and those who had not.

This survey asked people from primary care with mild to moderate chronic knee pain about the treatment they had received and their treatment preferences, and matched these against the recommendations of evidence-based management guidelines. While most people had received some form of treatment, the treatment they received frequently did not reflect guideline recommendations or treatment preferences, though nearly a half of people expressed no treatment preference.

Clinical guidelines for the management of knee pain recommend initially employing non-pharmacological interventions (verbal and written information about the condition, self-management, physiotherapy, etc), supplemented with simple analgesia (paracetamol, topical agents), if necessary progressing to stronger second line oral analgesia (opioids and NSAIDs), reserving surgery for people unresponsive to conservative management. In general, the clinical guidelines reflect lay people's treatment preferences for physiotherapy, not medication or surgery, and confirms the findings of previous studies. However, in spite of management guidelines, the popularity and proven efficacy of physiotherapy, the unpopularity of medication, people's willingness to put up with pain to avoid taking medication and serious concerns regarding the safety, efficacy and costs of medication, the majority of people had been prescribed analgesia or NSAIDs to alleviate their knee pain, while less than half had been referred to physiotherapy. Poor adherence to these clinical guidelines and the suboptimal management of osteoarthritis is not uncommon.

We did not specifically enquire what information, education or advice people had received, but most people will probably have received some information and advice about their condition informally during clinical consultations, rather than through a formal structured self-management programme. That no participant spontaneously mentioned information/advice as an intervention received suggests that they didn't receive any information, but if information was given people do not perceive it to be an intervention per se or it was ineffectual and people do not value its usefulness.

Lack of information about chronic joint pain, its causes, effects, prognosis and effective treatment options can have a major influence on people's preference for, acceptance of and adherence to treatment. Nearly half of the participants did not express any treatment preference. While some people will be happy to devolve decisions about their treatment to healthcare professionals, others will want to be involved in deciding their management. Coming to an informed decision about management requires that all available options are known. If the lack of treatment preference reflects limited awareness of effective treatment options, the ability of people to make informed decisions will be impeded. Tallon et al reported that although few people valued patient education/information many thought this should be a research priority, and the authors suggested it may be a way of people asking to take control of their condition. If correct, not giving people information is denying them control over their condition. Our study suggests that despite the prioritisation of education/information recommended in clinical guidelines, if delivered at all, it is delivered ineffectually so people do not appreciate, utilise and implement the information. Ensuring people have sufficient information to make informed realistic decisions about treatment and eliciting treatment preferences may facilitate the decision-making process.

A sizable number of people (10%) had received surgery (arthroscopy, lavage, menisectomy) though there is little evidence these procedures are effective and they carry inherent risks. Although a few people had been referred for orthopaedic assessment they were undecided about accepting when given a date as they did not perceive it to be necessary.[25] This ambivalence highlights the unpopularity of surgery; without prompting 10% of people stated they did not want surgery because of the nature of the intervention or the negative experiences of people they knew. It also highlights the disparity between lay people's perceptions about the need for medical/surgical intervention and a healthcare professional's assessment of need, emphasising the necessity of informed shared decision-making when deciding important management strategies. A small minority of people (LESS THAN 4%) nominated knee surgery as their preferred treatment.

This study has limitations that need to be considered. Firstly, it was not a "purpose-designed" in-depth survey of patient preferences, and it had to be carried out within the time and resource limitations of the RCT. We wanted to identify important issues that might be explored in greater detail, for example the nature of patient preferences, using in-depth interviews. Secondly, an RCT of a physiotherapy-based intervention might recruit people who prefer physiotherapy and are biased against medication, surgery and other interventions, while people with strong preferences against physiotherapy and exercise may have decided not to participate, giving a biased sample. However, the high proportion of people who had no treatment preference suggests selection bias did not influence the results greatly. Finally, information given during consent may have increased people's awareness of physiotherapy and other treatment options causing them to respond differently in the light of this knowledge. Again, if correct, more participants would have been expected to express treatment preferences.

In summary, we found a mismatch between people's treatment preferences, the treatment they had received and treatment that evidence-based guidelines recommend they should receive for chronic knee pain. Pressures on time and resources may be encouraging routine prescription of palliative medication, which is not recommended by current guidelines as an effective, efficient or safe way to manage chronic joint pain, instead of providing more and better information enabling people to make informed management choices. People in this study told us they wanted what the guidelines say they should get - initially non-pharmacological interventions with minimal medical/surgical intervention, with increasing medical/surgical intervention if these are ineffective. People's preferences and judgement of need for an intervention, their positive experience and concerns about outcome and side-effects influence acceptance of and adherence to treatment. Enabling people to make informed choices, and delivering people's preferred healthcare interventions is likely to promote better adherence to optimal, effective management, especially when their preferences closely reflect the recommendations of the best available evidence.

Latters jon-q

[waltz#2]

SWIM has chronic knee pain, is in their early 20's and can no longer run due to it too. Although SWIM's problems came from bicycle accidents. When they go to the doc they tell him to loose weight and take 10 ibuprofen a day and ride the bicycle. $20 for the same speech over and over again. Lol, SWIM's problems come from falling off bikes, so the solution being bikes makes very little sense.

SWIM tolerates the pain and only takes a pain killer when they hit the offending knee or just can't stand it anymore. For SWIM, dealing with the pain is better than being strung out. SWIM advises experimenting with stretching and different exercises to see if anything provides temporary relief. The bike thing actually works for SWIM, so now their whole life pretty much revolves around the bike. Even lame things like walking, yoga, swimming, etc. might help SWIY. If SWIM were SWIY, SWIM would try these things for a while and keep a log of hurts more or hurts less and present this to the dr. Getting spaced out and pushing things on a bad knee can lead to further damage and the requirement of stronger pain killers.

If SWIY have breakthrough pain then SWIY deserves to have a medication to fix that. SWIM only has them because he saved them from other afflictions.

SWIM knows too many pharma junkies to advise any other SWIMmers to go down that path. Sometimes opiates are the only choice, but don't settle until all other options have been exhausted.

[fiveleggedrat]

Swim had a severe beating from a teenager when he was about 11 or 12 years old. Swim was in the ER. Swim had no "visible" damage, but has experienced back pain often, and the type that interferes in daily life.

Swim is 19 years old, and doctors won't even prescribe a benzo for his severe anxiety and severe insomnia, much less something for the pain.

Swim hates old people given pain meds in obscene amounts, to the point of severe addiction, but someone very much aware on the issue of addiction and pain management is denied treatment due to "age" and "visible" injuries. I guess fibromyalgia and neuropathic pain are imaginary too, huh?

[jon-q]

How ya doing Fiveleggedrat?
Swim feels for all you younger dudes especially if your from the United States,sometimes swim would like to give some of these "well meaning" Doctors a severe beating just to see how they would deal with their own pain-relief.Lol
~Fiveleggedrat how did swiyou get on with the (poppy pod-Kratom) trail?Did that provide any relief for the pain?
.....jon-q

[static_vodka_420]

Originally Posted by NotImportant

Swim here.

Swim has a severe knee problem, and the doctor wont prescribe any meds because of swims age. He says he isnt comfortable giving painkillers to 18 year olds. But swim has a big problem with it, and cant do the regular gym stuff in class. Like, for an example, swim can not run without being in extreme pain. The thing is that swims doctor says that it will get better if swim runs and trains the muscles around the knee more. But it feels like hell, and swim just cant run or do anything like that. Swim is therefore looking in on the possibility to get some kind of painkiller that will allow swim to exercise more, and not get the pain. Swim has gotten a little overweight because he cant move as much as he needs and should, and want to change this. He considered the speed dieting, but he would like to exercise first and try that. But for that, he needs something to kill the pain.

I have been looking around the forum, but cant find the answer Im looking for.

So, what would swiy recommend?

in swims honest opinion he would completelly avoid the painkillers and tough it out for one simple reason

swim has no predjudice agianst recreational opiate usage and still occasionally engages in it himself and when using purelly for reacreational purposes it is easy to keep ones usage down...BUT once swiy sets in in there mind that they "need" the pills and that they "help them" it becomes increasinglly difficult to limit ones usage as swiy "needs" the pills

sence swiy will most likelly ignore that and swim would have too before his addiction and breaking it

swim would reccomend a very extensive workout program( that is very well supervised to swims knolledge the effect of these drugs during periods of heightened cardiovascular activity are unstudided any swiys care to prove swim wrong?) combined with a light methadone dosage for about a week at a time at the absolute longest when swiy is ready to uhh"kick it up a notch" start a 3 day period of use or shorter preferablly to deal with the original pain of conditioning the muscle to regular usage and then discontinue until the next steup up.. at least thats what swim reccomends

as far as the doctor goes patince really is a virtue in this case try everything swiy is offered until opiates are all thats left if one must but swiy has been warned lol

but seriouslly

-swim-

[NotImportant]

Swim has gotten the same speech from the doctor a loads of time, loose weight and excerise that knee, it might get better. (I especially notice the "might" in his sentence). Swim has been to other doctors aswell, which have seen that the knee hasnt any big injuries, but many small. It just seems like swims knee isnt suited for swim. There was a possibility they could fix it up later, but I doubt it, seeing as doctors pretty much suck when it comes to teens and people iin their early 20s. But swim does of course try to excerise, but it really does hurt too much for swim to endure and the paiin goes on for a couple of days so swim hardly wants to get out of bed because of it. It also responds accordingly to the weather, so if its rainy or snowy or something like that, it hurts extra much. Swim is 18 years old and swims body is acting like its 80 or something.



(btw, swims friend who can get everything, well he can but it takes some time to get some stuff - like pills, But something is very easy)

[jon-q]

Swim has received a note "sender unknown" suggesting that this doseage chart is not very clear~
1)Asprin 1080mg ~This amount is for comparison only.75mg 2 times daily.
2)Codeine 30mg ~ 8-16mg would be a good start dose 2-3 times a day.
3)Tramadol 30mg ~ Same dose as above.
4)Dihydrocodeine 17mg ~8-10mg Good start dose 2-3 times daily.
5)Pethidine 8.3mg~If swiy is still feeling pain after 1-2 weeks and has tried the above medications swim-q would suggest you re visit your Doctor at this point.
6)Hydrocodone 5mg ~
7)Morphine 3mg ~
**********************************
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I have given swi-q a real good kicking for this disgusting and potentialy harmfull cock-up and after pleading for my forgiveness(?) he is going to re-print the above information,which will hopefully be a little more user freindly.
Swim is sorry~please do not upset my master,swim dislikes being beaten with a size 9 wellington boot~swi-q hopes this chart is a little bit more understandable~
Bellow is a chart that can be used for comparing analgesic strengths of various opiate drugs in relation to others~The base line drug is codeine @30mg}
1) Asprin(non-opioid)1080mg is equal to 30mg Codeine
2) Codeine 30mg
3) Tramadol 30mg = 30mg codeine
4) Dihydrocodeine 17mg = 30mg codeine
5) Pethadine 8.3mg = 30mg codeine
6) Hydrocodone 5mg = 30mg codeine
7) Morphine 3mg = 30mg codeine
8) Oxycodone 1.5-2mg = 30mg codeine
To answer the origonal posters question swim would suggest that swi-important takes 75mg of Asprin twice daily also 200mg of Ibuprofen and a supplement of Glucosamine Sulfate could be taken(If swiy is going to use Glucosamine Sulfate take this in the morning with the asprin and take the Ibuprofen in the afternoon)
If this has no effect then continue with the 200mg of Ibuprofen and a supplement of Glucosamine Sulfate but replace the asprin with 8-16mg of Codeine twice daily-The dose of codeine may be upped in 8mg incraments ie 8mg-16mg-24mg-32mg. *****Caution should be used when getting Codeine combination tablets for example ~Co-codamol contains codeine and paracetamol(Always read enclosed safety sheet).Try and find a combination that uses codeine/Dihydrocodeine and Ibruprofen(Nurofen~Nurofen plus)
Swiy can use the strength chart to compare various medications when switching from one type to another or when increased pain relief is needed.
Swi-q hopes this is a little more "USER FRIENDLY" as he does not want to feel is masters wrath again(swims bottom still hurts from the last beating)
Ouch Latters.....Sore bum

[superdupernaut]

I've never heard of 75mg of aspirin being effective for pain releif. I'm pretty sure that the reccomended dosage is 325 to 650 mg for adults.

Does an aspirin microdose have some sort of synergistic effect when taken with a small dose of ibuprofen?

[jon-q]

Originally Posted by superdupernaut

I've never heard of 75mg of aspirin being effective for pain releif. I'm pretty sure that the reccomended dosage is 325 to 650 mg for adults.

Does an aspirin microdose have some sort of synergistic effect when taken with a small dose of ibuprofen?

Swi-superdupernaut is correct with regards the dose....^^^^^^^
However_It's possible that aspirin can actualy reduce the effectiveness of some NSAIDs effects when aspirin and ibuprofen are used at the same time (this is still a murky area) also long term use of aspirin in normal higher doses isn't recomended for young people-as is the case for paracetamol.swim was only really showing aspirin for comparison reasons.

[fiveleggedrat]

It also is many of the doctors; Swim often meets doctors that are very biased and closed-minded, impossibly ignorant about the positive potentials of the medicines they are so biased about. Swim is still trying to find a doctor to help his insomnia and anxiety. All say "I don't like benzodiazepines, they are too addictive" or "They are abuseable" or, my personal favorite, "You are too young to be taking them", in which point I rip off said doctor's face and start eating it.

Taking that type of ignorant doctor (the type who never actually "studied" medicine, the type who need a PDR or handbook to reference for EVERYTHING) and applying it towards pain management, something even more frowned upon, especially in a time where the media bleats daily on the notion of "pain medicine abuse" and "pain medicine addiction", and let's not forget "MEDICATION DIVERSION", from the children stealing and ODing on other people's pills, etc etc.

Once again: Self medication is ALL that arises from ignorant doctors. People buying pills and dope on the streets to lead a normal life. Too bad they have to stray into an illegal, dark world just to try and stay in their normal world. Which, chances are, they won't. More like a 5 year prison sentence for Heroin possession.