Why so many new heroin addicts?

[lorzapmail]

Swim see so many post of withdrawal and just how to get by until the next shot. swim doesn't not know why more and more follow this trail to nowhere. Maybe someone can let me know the answer or answers.Swim has lived with pain for year and sometimes take more than swim should of his prescription, but never seen herion an option.

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Good thread. I think its good to get people thinking why they do the things they do!

[dyingtomorrow]

Regarding SWIY's situation, SWIM knows lots of people that made the transition from pain drugs, Vicodin, codeine, oxycotins especially, to H, simply because it's a lot more cost effective (as long as you can keep your dose stable).

The reason addicts deal with all the bad is because there's nothing better in the world than heroin, and once you start you have two choices: (1) keep doing heroin (2) live as a shell of a person forever depressed knowing you'll never experience anything as good again.

Consider that someone would go through 100 out of 365 days a year in the most excruciating pain imaginable just short of what would kill you, and that it is worth it to them for the other 265 days. Even more in many cases. That should give you an idea of how awesome it is.

[Wierd Logic]

Originally Posted by dyingtomorrow

Regarding SWIY's situation, SWIM knows lots of people that made the transition from pain drugs, Vicodin, codeine, oxycotins especially, to H, simply because it's a lot more cost effective (as long as you can keep your dose stable).

The reason addicts deal with all the bad is because there's nothing better in the world than heroin, and once you start you have two choices: (1) keep doing heroin (2) live as a shell of a person forever depressed knowing you'll never experience anything as good again.

Consider that someone would go through 100 out of 365 days a year in the most excruciating pain imaginable just short of what would kill you, and that it is worth it to them for the other 265 days. Even more in many cases. That should give you an idea of how awesome it is.

So just out of interest, would swiy say that it is worth it for others to start?
Not tempted to, just wondering...

[dyingtomorrow]

Originally Posted by Wierd Logic

So just out of interest, would swiy say that it is worth it for others to start?
Not tempted to, just wondering...

If you are rich - ABSOLUTELY!

If not, depends how much physical or mental pain you are in. If you have a low quality of life, and no hope of change, then yes.

The first couple months, years, of heroin addiction is like heaven on earth. It stays heaven until you run out of money.

So if you want to experience something amazing and don't like your daily life, then yes. If you are satisfied with your stable life, then no, SWIM wouldn't recommend it.

Would SWIM do it again if SWIM could go back to the moment SWIM decided to try it? In a heartbeat. Knowing everything SWIM does at this point, if SWIM was given all his money back would SWIM do it again starting now? Yes, but this time the financial issues wouldn't be a problem, because after a year or so of use, a heroin addict knows how to use it without running themselves into the ground or bankrupting themselves. At this point SWIM could go a year on the money he spent in a month on it. Unfortunately most people have completely burned themselves out by the time they learn how to use heroin responsibly and to the best effect.

[lorzapmail]

Originally Posted by dyingtomorrow

If you are rich - ABSOLUTELY!

If not, depends how much physical or mental pain you are in. If you have a low quality of life, and no hope of change, then yes.

The first couple months, years, of heroin addiction is like heaven on earth. It stays heaven until you run out of money.

So if you want to experience something amazing and don't like your daily life, then yes. If you are satisfied with your stable life, then no, SWIM wouldn't recommend it.

Would SWIM do it again if SWIM could go back to the moment SWIM decided to try it? In a heartbeat. Knowing everything SWIM does at this point, if SWIM was given all his money back would SWIM do it again starting now? Yes, but this time the financial issues wouldn't be a problem, because after a year or so of use, a heroin addict knows how to use it without running themselves into the ground or bankrupting themselves. At this point SWIM could go a year on the money he spent in a month on it. Unfortunately most people have completely burned themselves out by the time they learn how to use heroin responsibly and to the best effect.

.............

This proves to swim most herions addicts would gladly do it again if they they could start over. Always with a better paln the next time. A few do get clean. Why in hell would someone want that kind of life. There are legal pain meds if you are really in severe pain. Though Swim thinks most have only mental pain, and feel they deserve a "better" life and life has screwed them around. A person can convince him/herself anything they want. Why not convince yourself you need to change.

[Burnt]

^^ Screw that. There are way better things in this world then heroin. SWIM never Iv'd so I can't compare that route of administration, but if SWIY really think heroin is the best sensation in the world and life is barely worth living without you are a sad case indeed. As for the guy who started post no don't start using heroin its very addictive and not worth it wasting your life on.

The first couple months, years, of heroin addiction is like heaven on earth. It stays heaven until you run out of money.

Or you can't get high anymore. Sorry but seeing too many people flush their life down the drain with dope really doesn't give me much sympathy for people who make the poor decision of getting addicted to opiates. Those who suffer from chronic pain or need to use opiates for such condition understandable but if you are just using dope to forget about life or feel like your constantly in 'heaven' then your missing out on most of what life has to offer.

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well said, when it needed to be.

[dyingtomorrow]

Originally Posted by Burnt

Or you can't get high anymore.

That doesn't make any sense. The only reason you wouldn't be able to get high is if you didn't have money - as I said in the quote you were responding to. You have some pretty strong beliefs about Heroin for obviously not knowing much about it.

I forget sometimes that we actually have faux-"moral" fundies lurking on this forum. Or whatever you call people who make huge assumptions and judgments about the lives of other people and what they have or have not done. It's even funnier coming from another drug user though.

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well said man..well said..

[Junkhead23]

Spot on there SWIYDying why do so many people make assumptions about something they know nothing about. If SWIYburnt had been through some of the things SWIM has believe me YOU would want to forget about life too!

[Solinari]

But it just isn't that "awesome" and running about trying to get money for a bag every day is an absolute nonsense. Also withdrawing from heroin really is not the most excruciating pain imaginable and is no where near what would kill you.

Being a heroin addict is bullshit, selling your soul everyday to score is bullshit, having your face in your knees everyday is bullshit and the sooner people realise this the better.

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	spot on analogy.
	i totally aggree with you

[humdroid]

Y dosen't do heroin, but he dosen't buy the "Heroin's as good as it gets" mentality.
The fact that there are loads of ex heroin addicts who have been clean years or decades proves life after heroin is worth it.
On the scene where Y lives, the heroin scene, everybody tries to rip everyone else off. Many of the non users have good friends who use, but they cannot help but keep them at a certain distance, because of what they have seen heroin (or should I say lack of) do to their psyche/body/spirit.

If your'e gonna try a new drug, make sure you can cope with the times when you're not useing.

[east_of_eden]

Originally Posted by Solinari

But it just isn't that "awesome" and running about trying to get money for a bag every day is an absolute nonsense. Also withdrawing from heroin really is not the most excruciating pain imaginable .

^^ this just shows swim that everyone is different when it comes to heroin. to some people, the first time they use heroin, its like they found that mysterious "something" that was always missing from their life and this empty place inside them was finally filled for the first time.

also, withdrawing is absolutely hell on earth. swim is not saying there are not other things that could be excruciatingly painful, but the fear of being dope sick is so strong it's constantly pushing one forward, keeping the addict one step ahead.

when swim was in rehab, the counselors even said that the success rate for heroin addicts was much less than for other drugs because heroin is such a "relationship" and there is so much more of a mental connection.

[Nahbus]

once you start you have two choices: (1) keep doing heroin (2) live as a shell of a person forever depressed knowing you'll never experience anything as good again.

This may be true for some, but you just don't really hear about success stories of people on heroin.
SWIM has been a responsible heroin user for about over a year now. What I mean by "responsible" is that he only uses for a week or two, then gets it out of his system (having only slight withdrawals) and waits a bit to start using again. He shoots it only on very special occasions (has only done it a handful of times), which may sound silly, but he likes to be safe.
He has his very well paying dream job that he's wanted since he was a kid, he is very happy, has a lovely girlfriend and a nice home, they pay their bills on time and are generally always happy.
SWIM hates the stigma associated with heroin.. he knows that most people who do it unfortunately do fall into a downward spiral, but there are so many of them like SWIM that have very happy, successful and fulfilling lives, and just so happen to use heroin.
He can't really tell anyone he uses as it would be very looked down upon, but he is smart, safe and responsible. I don't think many people can understand that. Once they hear or think "heroin" there are just negative thoughts. Sure it can be a horrible, life ending drug, but it can also be used responsibly by some people with no real external/social harm.
Just my 2 cents

[hermeneutika]

well this is all very well....and if you are speaking the truth then fine....however my limited experience of heroin users(only 3 or 4) have all been negative.....lying cheating stealing etc to get the money for the next fix....not a pretty picture....but that has been my experience so far....does that mean i judge every user like this? No. But my experience has taught me to be extremely extremely wary around heroin users....

Originally Posted by Nahbus

This may be true for some, but you just don't really hear about success stories of people on heroin.
SWIM has been a responsible heroin user for about over a year now. What I mean by "responsible" is that he only uses for a week or two, then gets it out of his system (having only slight withdrawals) and waits a bit to start using again. He shoots it only on very special occasions (has only done it a handful of times), which may sound silly, but he likes to be safe.
He has his very well paying dream job that he's wanted since he was a kid, he is very happy, has a lovely girlfriend and a nice home, they pay their bills on time and are generally always happy.
SWIM hates the stigma associated with heroin.. he knows that most people who do it unfortunately do fall into a downward spiral, but there are so many of them like SWIM that have very happy, successful and fulfilling lives, and just so happen to use heroin.
He can't really tell anyone he uses as it would be very looked down upon, but he is smart, safe and responsible. I don't think many people can understand that. Once they hear or think "heroin" there are just negative thoughts. Sure it can be a horrible, life ending drug, but it can also be used responsibly by some people with no real external/social harm.
Just my 2 cents

[dyingtomorrow]

Sure it can be a horrible, life ending drug, but it can also be used responsibly by some people with no real external/social harm.
Just my 2 cents

I totally agree with this. All the harm from heroin is made up by people, not an inherent part of the substance - just like "alcohol" used to ruin people's lives and send them to jail during prohibition.

It's kind of like alcohol in another sense - most people are introduced to heavier alcohol use during college / right after high school. They binge, then most learn to drink responsibly and it's fine. It's the same with heroin, except most of the time the financial aspect of heroin use sends them into a downward financial spiral during the binge phase, before they learn to use it responsibly. If it were manufactured like alcohol, it would be a tiny fraction of the price, and this wouldn't be an issue.

Also, a large percent of people use heroin for or because of depression, and experience a much higher quality of life and productivity while they can afford it. The financial / legal aspect is the only thing that causes it to hurt people's lives. If you just take a step back and think about it, it's utterly ridiculous how the medical establishment would deny someone heroin as the incredibly effective depression cure that it (exclusively) is for many people, "because it's addictive," and then in the same sentence, with a straight face, suggest that they get on Antidepressent X for the rest of their life.

Talk about an eye-roller.

[xxdan123xx]

Originally Posted by dyingtomorrow

Also, a large percent of people use heroin for or because of depression, and experience a much higher quality of life and productivity while they can afford it. The financial / legal aspect is the only thing that causes it to hurt people's lives. If you just take a step back and think about it, it's utterly ridiculous how the medical establishment would deny someone heroin as the incredibly effective depression cure that it (exclusively) is for many people, "because it's addictive," and then in the same sentence, with a straight face, suggest that they get on Antidepressent X for the rest of their life.

Talk about an eye-roller.

Swim couldn't agree more. While on H he is the most productive person he can be, but..if he is in need of some he would blow off any and all other obligations to score and that's how people lose jobs become homeless need to steal.. the thing is W.d.s are part of the heroin experience and one cannot say if it weren't for them heroin would be great... Swidying tomorrow, swim sees where swiy are coming from but feels bad that swiy cant find any joy in this life not derives from taking a drug, surley swiy had some hobbies when swiy were younger? Sry just swims opinion and nothing to be taken seriously...

[m.swinehart81]

Originally Posted by xxdan123xx

Swim couldn't agree more. While on H he is the most productive person he can be, but..if he is in need of some he would blow off any and all other obligations to score and that's how people lose jobs become homeless need to steal.. the thing is W.d.s are part of the heroin experience and one cannot say if it weren't for them heroin would be great... Swidying tomorrow, swim sees where swiy are coming from but feels bad that swiy cant find any joy in this life not derives from taking a drug, surley swiy had some hobbies when swiy were younger? Sry just swims opinion and nothing to be taken seriously...

Swim disagrees strongly with the statement that without withdrawls heroin wouldnt be as great of a drug. If swim could use heroin without ever having to worry about withdrawls his life would be absolutely amazing! Of course experiencing withdrawls gives a heroin addict a much stronger drive to want to use but in swims opinion, it definitely doesnt add to how much he likes using heroin or how great the high is when he uses it...
In no way am I trying to say that swims way is the right/only way but that is definitely how he feels

[Nahbus]

it's utterly ridiculous how the medical establishment would deny someone heroin as the incredibly effective depression cure that it (exclusively) is for many people, "because it's addictive," and then in the same sentence, with a straight face, suggest that they get on Antidepressent X for the rest of their life.

Right, they can put 9 year olds with ADD on amphetamines, which is A.O.K...
Just go and look at some places that have clinics who provide pure dope, clean needles and a nurse to administrate the drug. Most everyone in these kinds of "treatments" lead amazing lives.
Most of the problem comes with the legality of it, how people go about selling it, and what people will DO to get it, simply because it's illegal.

On the other hand, I wouldn't want just any old schmuck getting on heroin because it's legal and end up nodding out in their car to crash into me. It's a pretty touchy subject and could go both ways... but surely the people who are getting heroin illegally are going to be much worse off than those getting it legally and clean and safe.

[Junkhead23]

Originally Posted by Nahbus

On the other hand, I wouldn't want just any old schmuck getting on heroin because it's legal and end up nodding out in their car to crash into me. It's a pretty touchy subject and could go both ways... but surely the people who are getting heroin illegally are going to be much worse off than those getting it legally and clean and safe.

Any old schmuck can drink alcohol and how many deaths are caused by drink driving a year. The substance makes no difference. An irresponsible person is an irresponsible person it doesn't matter what substance they have taken.

[Alfa]

Most drugs can cause havoc and can be used and abused, but all in different degree. Of all drugs available nothing touches heroin, in regard to the amount of beautiful people that I have seen fading to ghosts so close to death that all hope is lost. Heroin is simply not a drug that lends itself easily for responsible and controlled drug use. Off course it exists, but there are danger signs all around with this drug.

Originally Posted by Nahbus

but surely the people who are getting heroin illegally are going to be much worse off than those getting it legally and clean and safe.

Yes, this makes a world of difference.

[dyingtomorrow]

Originally Posted by Alfa

Most drugs can cause havoc and can be used and abused, but all in different degree. Of all drugs available nothing touches heroin, in regard to the amount of beautiful people that I have seen fading to ghosts so close to death that all hope is lost. Heroin is simply not a drug that lends itself easily for responsible and controlled drug use. Off course it exists, but there are danger signs all around with this drug.

I'd say there's a special relationship between the human experience and opiates, of which Heroin is the apex. Of all the drugs that are around, opium was probably the longest used, maybe tied with mushrooms. They've found evidence of cultivation in the mediterranian area going back to like 4,000 B.C. Cultivation alone. The follow up to the ancient Greek story of Prometheus, who loved humans so much he endured eternal torture to give them fire, is that from his vulture-wounds spilled an ichor which created opium poppies, an irony in helping man yet again. Who knows how far back cultuvation goes around the Indus / Nile valley, let alone just "gathering." Humans could easily have been doing opiates in certain areas/cultures for 20,000+ years. That's long enough even for evolutionary forces to take hold.

Granted heroin use requires a degree of dependence and reliance on supply which can make life more difficult than independence - but it also really has a way for certain people of bringing out the best in them. Heroin as a recreational drug in the context of social productivity and intellectual enhancement blows alcohol out of the water. If people were allowed to be heroin addicts if they wanted to, the health problems would disappear over night, a LOT of people would be helped and gladly exist as the low-level homogenized cogs that society requires, a lot of intellectuals would soar above their limits, and the people who become crappier are the ones who would have been crappy anyways. Net gain for society and individual quality of life, IMO.

[Nahbus]

and the people who become crappier are the ones who would have been crappy anyways.

Agreed. You can always tell how a person really is by seeing how they are after doing dope. It's quite scary at how many people really don't care to help others out.. it's sad to see how many are just here to exist for themselves and their happiness, no matter who else is hurt in the process.

I hate when people say that a substance makes people a certain way. Such bullcrap. It just has the tendency to bring out the worst in someone, but if that person doesn't really have a "worse" side to them, dope surely won't create one for them to use!

[mickey_bee]

Originally Posted by Nahbus

I hate when people say that a substance makes people a certain way. Such bullcrap. It just has the tendency to bring out the worst in someone, but if that person doesn't really have a "worse" side to them, dope surely won't create one for them to use!

Amen!
In the world, there are good people and there are bad people.
Both good people and bad people can become addicts.

swim knows many addicts, including himself, who would never let their habit get in the way of their friendships or whatever they hold dear. However swim knows many people who, at the first sign of trouble, fuck everyone they can over, and then plead innocence with, 'the drug made me do it!'

Drug addiction does test even the strongest persons limits, but it is quite possible to retain your standards if you're a good person.

Most of the scumbags swim knows simply use drugs as an excuse, because they can't be arsed to find a better/less morally appalling way to get money/drugs etc.

[BrownStreakRailroad]

/\ yeah mate.....SWIM hates it when he sees chumps begging for money from him, or hearing about people robbing people or whatever!! it makes SWIM soooo mad, because SWIY dont have to be a c*nt just because SWIY'r on gear, its not to say SWIM hasnt had a few moments in his 13 years on heroin, he has lost a few good friends along the way etc....but this is more to do with the fact they cant be around SWIM when he is using as they dont agree with what he is doing. he doesnt hold it against them and they are still at arms length.
Swim believes there are more heroin addicts at the moment as it is so cheap nowadays, the availability is a factor too. Drug use patterns change through the years and another drug trend will take off or re-emerge.

[east_of_eden]

[QUOTE=BrownStreakRailroad;626844Swim believes there are more heroin addicts at the moment as it is so cheap nowadays, the availability is a factor too. Drug use patterns change through the years and another drug trend will take off or re-emerge.[/QUOTE]

also, a few years ago swim remembers seeing a lot of talk of heroin becoming the new "it" drug on those stupid gossip type t.v. shows and other places, first because of the whole "heroin chic" look that was popular, then because of stories of there being higher grade heroin that could be snorted and so it made it more acceptable for the "hollywood" crowd to try it, being that they didn't have to stick a needle in their arm.

[W!SE]

Only can a mature/experienced person use opiates properly, swim thinks.

Swimmers must monitor doses daily, if possible and taper down every once in a while in order for tolerance not become an issue (WHICH IS ALWAYS THE ISSUE). This is where an irresponsible person's first mistake usually is. They use - use - use, making WD that much harder and instead of stopping/slowing down while it's still manageable, they take the laugh now cry later approach thinking that shit wont catch up to them.. that is indeed the way an irresponsible person thinks. From Homework to Herion.. its the same issue with the same irresponsible people.

Although at times Swim has been guilty of procrastinating withdrawals himself, he lives a very fulfilling life, has passionate dreams which are slowly becoming realities, and all in all could not be happier...... the baggie is almost always half way filled tho swim should add. Consistent supply is yet another key sign of a mature/experienced user.

Once a swimmer has a consistent supply, all drug seeking behavior is out the window. Meaning the person does not degrade himself like a crack head on a day to day basis in order to avoid being sick.

If you are fucked up, chances are opiates will fuck you up worse. BUT there some people who can have stable relationships with opiates and enjoy the warmth and comfort they provide without the madness.

Drugs are not the center of swim's life, yet he uses..all..the..time..he incorperates his use into everything he loves and is constantly redefining himself and his relationship with not just opiates, but all drugs.
^^^^Anyone who cant see how that makes sense must not have anything good going for them.

-Side note-
Opiates are tricky though, like dude said a few posts above.. once u figure out how it's done - ull probably b burnt out, broke, or kicked out etc