Combinations - Lsd + mda

[Bajeda]

Does anyone have experience mixing MDA with LSD, or have an idea of what that would entail? MDA is more intense of an experience for my panda, though with higher body load, and of a much more psychedelic nature, so he is wondering if a lower dose should be used (comparative to the amount of MDMA used in candyflipping even) so that the experience doesn't become overwhelming.

[AdrenalineJunki]

Originally Posted by Bajeda

Does anyone have experience mixing MDA with LSD, or have an idea of what that would entail? MDA is more intense of an experience for my panda, though with higher body load, and of a much more psychedelic nature, so he is wondering if a lower dose should be used (comparative to the amount of MDMA used in candyflipping even) so that the experience doesn't become overwhelming.

Swim has had mda pills and cid, swim took one hit of alright geltab, (3 needed to trip balls, 2 was a good dose), and split 3 of the mda pills with his girlfriend, and the visuals were unexpectedly good, and felt fantastic. Swim recommends a fair amount of each, not a lot, but not too small, swim liked it a lot with lower cid and a lil more mda.

Reputation Comments on this post:

thanks for the info

[drugchemist]

A friend of mine's girlfriend is gone for the weekend so he has a good time ahead of him. He is planning on taking the acid on early Saturday. Would it be better for him to take the MDA the previous night (friday) or later that day after some of the acid effects have subsided?

[Songcycle67]

If I'm not mistaken MDA does its work on the 5-HT receptors just like LSD and other popular hallucinogens. If it's anything like its cousin it probably burns up a shitload of serotonin during the experience as well. If this is the case then there will definitely be some cross-tolerance if they're not taken at roughly the same time.

Assuming the above is true, if SWIY takes it as early as two days before the LSD they'll end up with a weak trip due to depleted serotonin (natural happiness--i.e. they'll be in a depressed state) and biochemical tolerance to 5-HT agonists like LSD. MDA also seems to be more "visual" and "psychedelic" than MDMA and therefore there will probably be some tolerance to altered consciousness in general which would make the LSD less potent.

If one were to take the LSD first, the same results would follow: most people believe that tolerance to LSD (and therefore other 5-HT agonists) builds within the first few hours of a session.

Having said that, I think many would agree that MDA is a much gentler, less taxing experience, and if the drugs must be taken in succession rather than all at once SWIM would assume that taking the MDA first would be the best way to get a little something out of both. Either way SWIY goes, though, they're going to be wasting one or the other to some degree and taking LSD with the heavily depleted serotonin levels (morbid depression) that often follow MDA/MA experiences would be less than ideal.

[drugchemist]

If this is true, swim will hold off on the MDA. The LSD is more important. Short of taking an MAOI, is there anything swim can do to potentiate his LSD trip? He is trying for maximum visual experience.

[Songcycle67]

They could take the MDA and LSD at the same time to massively potentiate the reaction. Someone correct me, however, if I'm wrong about MDA's method of action.

[raven3davis]

Take the MDA a few hours into it. It would be similar to a candyflip, just with MDA instead of MDMA. SWIM bets the visuals would be awesome. Just stay hydrated. There are many ways to take MDX + LSD. You can time it however you like, but people generally take the MDX a few hours into it because the acid lasts a lot longer than the MDXX. Classic combo. The timing is all up to you.

[Jatelka]

The flamingo says that she likes to get a couple of hours into the LSD, before taking MDMA (she assumes MDA would be similar), that way she is nicely into the hallucinating stage, and the overall durations seem to fit better. Taking MDMA first is a no brainer for her, because the LSD just gets lost.

There's a trip report here...

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...flippingtastic

on a wonderful flamingo candyflip

[drugchemist]

Swim has only tried MDMA once and never MDA. While he enjoy the empathogenic effects of MDMA, he would rather experience visuals, which led him to MDA. He will have a trip sitter with him but will he be able to act straight around people who are unaware he is "candyflipping"? also what kind of hangover should this guy i know expect?

drugchemist added 4 Minutes and 7 Seconds later...

Swim was planning on going to the zoo, is this going to be a problem? Also there may be some marijuana involve. With all these different combinations, swims already afraid of his heart rate getting out of control

[MindNRA]

You do know you can skip marijuana if you feel its too much.

Actually from what I heard (heard key word here), combining LSD and ecstasy usually calms the trip down. If you are an experienced acid user you can most likely control yourself, again, not guaranteed though. SWIY has spoken to police officers on acid and got away with it.

Marijuana can actually smooth the acid trip out as well but it will increase the roll so careful there. Hangover will be as usual MDA/MDMA hangover. Acid will not result in much of hangover but you will have trouble sleeping for a while so only do so knowing you can get full acid trip through 12-16 hours and then 8 hours of rest.

Honestly, if you are afraid of doing this. Then don't, it will f@ck your trip up. Fear before a trip is probably the single best way of screwing up your whole trip and sending it to pits of hell.

[drugchemist]

Swim isn't really afriad of the trip at all. He's afraid something will go wrong physically. But after more reading, it seems like this is a safer combo. 2 blotters of acid and 120 mg MDA are typical doses with no chance of re dosing. I imagine what will happens is he'll take the acid, wait 4 hours, see how he feels, then take the MDA if he's up to it

[MindNRA]

If you are definitely going to do both in one weekend, I would recommend to do both at the same time. Plenty of people have kandi flipped before, its relatively safe. Again, when it comes to drugs, everything is relative.

I would recommend both at the same time rather then one in one day and another the next day. I think two days of mind working in overdrive is worse then just doing it in one day. Its not that dangerous as long as you don't go overboard with either acid or MDA. In reasonable quantities, you'll be fine and will have an awesome time.

Take my advices with a grain of salt since I have never kandi flipped but I do plan on trying it myself at one point.

[VitaminK22]

Swim would take the acid then take the MDA 30-60mins after, that way the MDA will kind of boost the acid come-up but if swiys a little paranoid about harming his body or having a bad trip then its probably best to take the MDA after you're used to the acid effects and have fully come up off it. Also swim would only get smoked up after the MDA effects have settled (same as if he took MDA/MDMA on its own)

[Songcycle67]

As a combination they are completely physically safe. SWIM'd agree with the above comments about dropping the acid and then waiting an hour or so and taking the MDA. Tolerance won't have time to build and it'll definitely sweeten the peak/maximize enjoyment of the experience.

[Shampoo]

Originally Posted by songcycle67

They could take the MDA and LSD at the same time to massively potentiate the reaction. Someone correct me, however, if I'm wrong about MDA's method of action.

Well, MDA happens to be a complicated drug in terms of its mechanism of action. In some sense, it overlaps with the mechanims of LSD, and in some sense it acts more like MDMA: mostly, it acts like both.

See, LSD as you know is a 5-HT-2A agonist, meaning that it binds directly to and excites the metabotropic serotonin receptors. MDA also has a high affinity for binding to these receptors (5-HT-2A) and thus would elicit similar results (accounting for its psychedelic effects).

SO, unlike MDMA (which shows no affinity for 5-HT-2A receptors and thus shows no cross-tolerance with psychedelics), MDA should show a cross-tolerance with most psychedelics, especially tryptamines and phenethylamines, due to downregulation of the targeted receptors.

Additionally, MDA, like MDMA, has a high affinity for the SERT protien, which is responsible for the removal of serotonin from the synaptic cleft. Not only does MDA/MDMA prevent the SERT protoein from functioning properly, it actually reverses its action(!) forcing it to pump serotonin out of the presynaptic bulb.

So, taking the MDA first would result in a lot of already occupied serotonin receptors by the time LSD rolled around (as the result of alot of serotonin flooding the synaptic cleft and not being recycled). On the other hand, taking the LSD first would prevent alot of the psychedelic effects of MDA to manifest, as in terms of competitive agonist binding, LSD will hold out even in the presence of the competitive MDA.

In my opinion, it is a toss-up. Taking one first will likely diminish the activity of the other, and vice versa.

Take one, wait a week or so, and take the other! Patience is a valuable virtue, especially with psychedelics.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Clearly explained and useful conjectures.

[Songcycle67]

Yeah, Shampoo, that's kind of what I was thinking as well. They are fairly different in their effects (MDA seems to be a great deal more subtle from the accounts I've read) and it would kind of be like smoking crack on LSD for the first time and trying to figure out what crack does.

Just to clarify, though, it would slightly intensify the LSD if taken before tolerance develops?

Either way, SWIM doesn't think it would be worth wasting a rare hit of MDA during an LSD experience if that's the only MDA the person has and they really want to see what it's like/get the most out of it.

[drugchemist]

Swim is ok "wasting" the MDA as it can be obtained again rather easily. It's the LSD that might be harder to get. The main question is will it heighten the visual experiance? Swim has never experienced any visuals of any kind and he hopes to this time around. Now if MDA would not add to the visual experience than I would agree, it would not be worth taking. I will post his trip report later this weekend.

[Shampoo]

Originally Posted by songcycle67

Just to clarify, though, it would slightly intensify the LSD if taken before tolerance develops?

What led you to this conclusion? Not trying to be abrasive, just curious.

Lets walk through this potential situation: MDA is ingested, binding to 5-HT-2A receptors and activating them, causing downstream phosphorylation etc. It also bind to and reverses the activity of SERT. Suddenly, the synaptic cleft is flooded with serotonin, activating a slew of receptors. This will very rapidly (within an hour or so) cause some downregulation of serotonin receptors. Those which do not downregulate, will most likely be occupied by free serotonin from the reversed SERT.

Next, someone takes the LSD. LSD finds its way to this same synaptic cleft, and tries to find some free 5-HT-2A receptors to which it will bind and activate. First, it will have to displace the MDA molecules that are already sitting there. This may prove difficult (I dont know their binding affinities off the top of my head, but I imagine LSDs is stronger) but will occur, perhaps delaying the onset. Additionally, since the cleft is already full of serotonin, it must competitively bind in the presence of that, too! This, mixed with the downregulation that has occured already, will probably result in diminished effects. Just my thoughts though, not from experience.

Originally Posted by drugchemist

Swim is ok "wasting" the MDA as it can be obtained again rather easily. It's the LSD that might be harder to get. The main question is will it heighten the visual experiance? Swim has never experienced any visuals of any kind and he hopes to this time around. Now if MDA would not add to the visual experience than I would agree, it would not be worth taking. I will post his trip report later this weekend.

I dont see why it would significantly increase visual activity, unless it (visual activty) is mediated by other serotonin receptors which are being activated by MDA and not by LSD. I dont think this is true though. If the LSD is taken first, its effects will not be diminished by the subsequent ingestion of the MDA, however the MDA might be less noticeable (as elegantly stated by songcycle above, in reference to crack).

Do let us know how it goes! Ill be interested to hear what the effects are.

P.S, any idea what the dosages on these two substances are?

[Songcycle67]

Quote:
Originally Posted by songcycle67
Just to clarify, though, it would slightly intensify the LSD if taken before tolerance develops?

What led you to this conclusion? Not trying to be abrasive, just curious.

Acute confusion due to a lack of knowledge, haha! I can follow you on the 5-HT's and serotonin, but when we get into SERT and the synaptic cleft it turns greek. I know just enough to understand the kindergarten basics of chemicals binding to receptors, the basic nature of serotonin and how LSD works generally in the brain as a whole (fusing the senses, etc.), but the details and minutia are definitely well beyond my grasp. No doubt you are very well (self?) educated in pharmacology and biochemistry!

[drugchemist]

Dosage is 2 blotters (unknown concentration). 120 mg of pure MDA powder

[drugchemist]

Well My buddy survived the night. He wrote some of it down. I will post in his words no there is no confusion .

Here is his report for those interested

"The day began at 12 noon on the second. I was going to see if I could hold off on taking the MDA as long as possible.
T+1:00 - Feeling a bit energized. Nothing much at all
T+1:30 - Still nothing. I grew impatient and me and my sitter smoked pot to bring out the effects of the LSD.
T+1:40 - there is something way more than pot going on. Body feels very warm and nice. comes in small waves. I remember having a huge smile on my face and laughing at things that weren't funny. Pot hasn't made me giggle in over a year.
T+1:50 - tried to talk to my gf. Very hard to hold down a typical conversation. mind kept shifting to different things. couldn't keep still. decided not to answer the phone ever again
T+2:00 - Well the LSD feels nice and warm. vision is slighty off but no real OEV that swim was hopeing for. May try for the MDA. My fear is that I will pop the MDA and still be coming up on the LSD.
T+2:15 - I took the MDA. My god what have I done. (the trip sitter was completely unaware MDA was taken. only the LSD)
T+3:32 - very very very good OEV.
T+3:30 - smoked some more pot. visuals still going strong. Ceiling looks nice. too hard to type. the plant was growing.

That is all that I have written down. I have to fill in the rest from memory.
The MDA had a huge impact on the visuals. As soon as it kicked all i did was stare at the wall in pure euphoria.there were massive tracers on everything. Every edge of anything was outline in a rainbow. If i had to guess what a ++++ is, that would be it. The problem was the MDA wore off much sooner than anticipated, after about 2 hours. This sent me into a semi bad trip. I greatly missed the MDA. Lucky for me i recognized i was in a bad trip and changed music and the tv. My sitter told me maybe i should smoke some more pot to help with the anxiety.

I found this really helped. I believe i got stuck in a loop of just packing bowl after bowl without knowing it. I had no idea how much we smoked (turns out it was almost an eighth - WOW). All I knew was my brain was numb and I couldn't think. And because I couldn't remember my thoughts i gave up trying to think all together. I accepted my fate and got in the back seat of this ride.

It was about 7:30 and we had to meet many coworkers for a nice dinner. Surprisingly I was able to pull off being sober pretty well. I couldn't eat though, everyone kept asking why I wasn't hungry. Had a few beers to try to be social. I stared at everything I could in the restaurant. Walls were moving so were peoples shirts.

Ended up going back to my place afterwards. Smoked more pot and and talked the rest of the night. Anytime I was wondering if i was still tripping all I had to do was look at the ceiling. Visuals persisted until about 4 am when I tried to go to bed. I was mentally exhausted but I still couldn't sleep. Took a benadryl to help. finally fell asleep around 6am.

I am very happy with my trip. It was everything I thought it could be. I found I enjoy the day much more than night. The only thing I didn't like was the duration. It could have ended sooner. "

[Shampoo]

Originally Posted by songcycle67

I can follow you on the 5-HT's and serotonin, but when we get into SERT and the synaptic cleft it turns greek. I know just enough to understand the kindergarten basics of chemicals binding to receptors, the basic nature of serotonin and how LSD works generally in the brain as a whole (fusing the senses, etc.), but the details and minutia are definitely well beyond my grasp. No doubt you are very well (self?) educated in pharmacology and biochemistry!

My apologies for making that more confusing than it needed to be (but thank you for the kind words! If only it was through self-education...I am actually about to finish an undergraduate program in behavioral/cognitive neuroscience, so this is more my job than a hobby)

A few operational definitions:

the synaptic cleft is the space between neurons, into which neurotransmitters are released. The presynaptic neuron releases its neurotransmitters via quantal vesicle release, which travel across the synaptic cleft and eventually reach the postsynaptic neuron, which contains the receptors.

SERT is the serotonin reuptake transporter protein. Its job is to remove serotonin from the synaptic cleft after it has activated its receptor. When functioning normally, it will take serotonin from the synaptic cleft and transport it back into the presynaptic neuron where it can be recycled for future use. In the case of MDMA/MDA, SERT acts in reverse, actually pumping serotonin out of the presynaptic neuron into the synaptic cleft.

This may be a discussion for another thread, so if you want more information, do not hesitate to PM me or start a thread asking some specific questions.

Anywho, does that help?


@drugchemist Thank you for this detailed report! It sounds like primarily the visual activity was highlighted, or enhanced. Were there other interactions between the two on a cognitive or emotional level? Also, 2 hours is a very short time for the activity of MDA, are you quite sure it was from a reliable source? If so, it would be interesting to speculate on why the effects were shortened.

[drugchemist]

There wasn't as much emotion as MDMA from the prior time. The visuals were much better though. Swim only rememebers just staring at the wall thinking it was the most beautiful thing ever. The thought of the MDA wearing off might have been several factors. It getting dark out really changed the perception of things and swim doesn't have much experience to figure out what was going on between the pot, mda, and lsd. Swim is positive the MDA was good quality.

[Samadhi]

Originally Posted by drugchemist

There wasn't as much emotion as MDMA from the prior time. The visuals were much better though. Swim only rememebers just staring at the wall thinking it was the most beautiful thing ever. The thought of the MDA wearing off might have been several factors. It getting dark out really changed the perception of things and swim doesn't have much experience to figure out what was going on between the pot, mda, and lsd. Swim is positive the MDA was good quality.

That is quite odd, Swim has found MDA to be more "lovey" than MDMA. MDA and LSD is a great combo because MDA lacks the crash that MDMA gives to swim, plus the overall duration of MDA is a little longer than MDMA's.

[bLuE]

i think your overthinking it. the tolerance window is one hour, then it starts going up, in this time frame you can do an initial drop of starter dosages then once the effects have kicked in gauge how much more you want. then take the ride, the thing about mixing these two is that the acid will have you paranoid about your body functions and the MDA will be fucking with them, its normal to be itchy, control your temp, eat before, a snack during and something after, pick foods that are easy to digest, avoid fatty foods. taking little precautions to make sure your body is fully ready like a good nights sleep and proper nutrition ect can make or break a trip.