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Kratom Mitragyna speciosa

 
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  #1  
Old 19-06-2005, 08:42
Nicaine Nicaine is offline
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Kratom and Drug Tests

Does Kratom show up as anything on a urine test?

Thnx
  #2  
Old 20-06-2005, 04:08
sands of time sands of time is offline
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no
  #3  
Old 22-06-2005, 22:48
sands of time sands of time is offline
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This question has been asked on so many forums, chats, ect, it's a well established fact that it doesn't cause false positives. Many vendors will also state on they're FAQ section that kratom doesn't cause false positives. I have never had first hand experience, but I'm confident enough that I would gladly take a drug test after having kratom.
  #4  
Old 23-06-2005, 12:51
Nicaine Nicaine is offline
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This of course assumes the testers aren't looking for Kratom (which in all likelihood they wouldn't be). Makes sense they wouldn't find any chemicals they weren't testing for, whether or not said chemicals tweak the opiate receptors or not.
  #5  
Old 22-12-2005, 18:37
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I've had tests twice with kratom in my system and both were neg.So dont worry
  #6  
Old 14-05-2006, 22:22
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I know for certain that kratom will not cause a false positive on piss tests. SWIM was on probation and needed to give piss tests all the time and decided to start using kratom to get off opiates. never once caused a false positive in 6 months of kratom use.
Makes sense since kratom does not break down into morphine, which is what the test looks for. even if you did get a false positive, a more specific test like a G/C test would never confirm a false positive.
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Old 14-03-2007, 07:01
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Re: Kratom and piss tests

SWIM knows that it does not show up in tests done in the United States. But SWIM doesn't know about other countries.
  #8  
Old 17-04-2007, 20:16
dwilkes7 dwilkes7 is offline
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Re: Kratom and piss tests

Swim says take a look at the Mytragyna molecule and compare it to the opiate(any) molecule. They are totally different. All that the piss test does is indicate a binding action to an opiate molecule, or mj or whatever. In fact take a look at Yohimbime(sp?) molecule, it looks more like kratom than opiate. Swim sincerely doubts they are testing for those molecules.
  #9  
Old 10-11-2008, 16:39
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Does kratom show up positive for opiates or opioids in a drug screen?

Sorry if this has already been posted before. SWIM had a urine drug screen and was positive for opiates. The only drug/herb he was taking at the time was Kratom. SWIM's not heard of this before so he thought he'd post this up to warn others.
  #10  
Old 10-11-2008, 17:03
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Re: Kratom shows up positive for opiates!

"This is very much known. Use the search engine and you will find more information on this."

Hmm... sorry if i judged to quickly. But swim has heard of this from alot of people. Swim doesn't have any scientific evidence right now but will make an effort to find it. Again.. sorry!

Last edited by robin_himself; 10-11-2008 at 19:14. Reason: wrong judgement
  #11  
Old 10-11-2008, 17:10
oggy oggy is offline
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Re: Kratom shows up positive for opiates!

Whoops sorry. I never knew about this before.
  #12  
Old 10-11-2008, 18:35
Richard_smoker Richard_smoker is offline
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Re: Kratom shows up positive for opiates!

wait just a second.

i just used the search engine, and all i found were threads and threads declaring that kratom could NEVER trip a positive on a drug screen that selects for morphine and other opiate break-down products. the posters claim that mytragine has no structural byproducts that are able to trigger a false positive.

perhaps i searched incorrectly, but this is definitely news to me. and i'll just say right now that this is NOT GOOD NEWS!

If it's true that urine drugs-of-abuse screens in the U.S. are equipped to detect Kratom, I bet 1/2 the people in this country who have taken it would have either been more careful with spreading out their experiments or they would have passed altogether.

someone please clarify the position on this subject. And, if anyone knows about MS/GC confirmation, please enlighten members like me who are in the dark. -DICK
  #13  
Old 19-11-2008, 19:19
Richard_smoker Richard_smoker is offline
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Re: Kratom shows up positive for opiates!

will someone please confirm (or deny) this rumor!??

oggy, did they do a confirmation test, where they send the results off to a lab and they will "let you know" the results later?

this is very important.

as far as i can tell, kratom is active on the opiate receptors yet does NOT have the molecular conformation as morphine, heroin, codeine, or synthetics. therefore, your positive must have been a "false positive." and that's what confirmation (lab) test were designed for...so people don't lose their jobs based on a false negative UA.

The ONLY other explanation is that there is a specific antibody-test that detects kratom excretion. I HIGHY doubt this as it is neither controlled nor illegal. As such, are we subject to testing to see if we've eaten okra or squash in the last week?? just because someone side-stepped the usual progression of events and 'decided' that kratom use = drug use although it continues to be legal? not likely.
  #14  
Old 26-11-2008, 22:56
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Re: Kratom shows up positive for opiates!

Swim has been using kratom semi daily, as well as being UA'd by strips/sometimes getting sent to a lab. Kratom has never triped any positive. Im sorry if you got a negative but from all research I have done as well as SWIMS first hand experiences this is not true. Swims gonna keep drinking his favorite substance UAs or no.

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thank you! very informative
  #15  
Old 28-11-2008, 15:50
oggy oggy is offline
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Re: Kratom shows up positive for opiates!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_smoker View Post
oggy, did they do a confirmation test, where they send the results off to a lab and they will "let you know" the results later?
All I know is SWIM gave a urine sample and the next time SWIM saw the doctor they said it was positive for opiates. The only drug/herb SWIM had been taking at the time was kratom so he figures it must have been the kratom.
  #16  
Old 28-11-2008, 21:08
Jasim Gold member Jasim is offline
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Re: Kratom shows up positive for opiates!

Swim works in a toxicology laboratory. This lab conducts urine and blood drug screens and tests. The lab has an immuno-analysis machine which uses antibodies selected against general drug structures or pharmacophores. This means that any chemical, irregardless of its structure, that shares similar structures to a drug class will be detected as a positive. Unfortunately this type of technology is becoming less expensive and more common.



If a quantitative confirmation test is done, it will be negative, because no confirmation testing is done for kratom. Confirmation tests are chemically specific. Unfortunately it is well known within the industry that the immuno-analysis screens are almost never wrong. Just because they can't pinpoint the exact chemical, doesn't really say much. And they know it.

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Thanks for the expert info.
valuable information. Keep it coming!
great info!!
Great info!!! A+ gold star
This information is critical; it means some serious investigation is necessary. THANKS! :-D
Thank you for the very useful personal experience, glad someone with some personal info and knowledge helped us out!
I for one didn't know about this technology. Thanks for sharing.
Very informative post.
really good information
Very appreciative of your professional opinion on this. *VERY* enlightening & useful info from someone "in-the-field"! Thanks so much!
It's nice to hear from someone who actually works in the field of toxicology. Thanks. I'd be interested in your insights in the future

Last edited by Jasim; 05-10-2010 at 22:31. Reason: Additional info and clarification
  #17  
Old 01-12-2008, 05:09
Richard_smoker Richard_smoker is offline
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Re: Kratom shows up positive for opiates!

wow Jasim! that's some serious info there!

i've never once heard of this being the basis of any immunoassay (i.e. dipstick) test, but it sure as hell makes sense. especially now, with the internet/information spreading like wildfire/ new& questionable curiosities that can impair one's thinking without obviously being an illegal drug--in a case like this, with a negative GC/MS follow-up--if it were a LEGAL proceeding, I could see them freezing your sample for more elaborate testing AS NEWER "legal highs" ARE DISCOVERED!!

well, all paranoia and such aside, i just want to verify here--if the GC/MS comes back negative, then your "positive" immunoassay has been officially DEBUNKED! correct? After the 2 week waiting period (sweating period), the final confirmatory test should be NEGATIVE. no ifs, ands or buts.

however, oggy, if your "doctor" did the test, then there's only 1 reaction that you should have: ADAMANTLY DENY THAT YOU'VE TAKEN ANY OPIATE KNOWN TO MAN! why? because they'll be forced to run a confirmatory test to prove what substance you had taken. answer? NOTHING. then they will apologize to you.

-DICK
  #18  
Old 02-12-2008, 02:06
Jasim Gold member Jasim is offline
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Re: Kratom shows up positive for opiates!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_smoker View Post
if the GC/MS comes back negative, then your "positive" immunoassay has been officially DEBUNKED! correct?
-DICK
It depends on the circumstance. If the drug test is for some non-criminal reason, such as for work or a job, then the screen could be enough to get swiy into trouble. But criminal cases, it can vary depending upon the region and the circumstances.
In the USA, if the matter is pressed (meaning swiy has a decent lawyer), then it ultimately comes down to whether or not the prosecutor is able to obtain a quantitative value for an identified chemical. Screens do not give quantitative values.

At the moment this means GC/MS, HPLC, or a related technique. However the immuno-based machine that swim has in his lab (costing approx. $900,000) gives semi-quantitative values. And the technology is moving towards greater accuracy with fully quantitative values.

Swim speculates that a push will be made to be able to determine binding potency to a given receptor (very possible theoretically). This information, combined with a quantitative value for an unknown analyte would be enough so that the chemical wouldn't have to be identified at all and would fully stand up in court.

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Great info on the different drug tests. Thanks.
  #19  
Old 02-12-2008, 04:05
Richard_smoker Richard_smoker is offline
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Re: Kratom shows up positive for opiates!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasim View Post
It depends on the circumstance. If the drug test is for some non-criminal reason, such as for work or a job, then the screen could be enough to get swiy into trouble. But criminal cases, it can vary depending upon the region and the circumstances.
In the USA, if the matter is pressed (meaning swiy has a decent lawyer), then it ultimately comes down to whether or not the prosecutor is able to obtain a quantitative value for an identified chemical. Screens do not give quantitative values.

At the moment this means GC/MS, HPLC, or a related technique. However the immuno-based machine that swim has in his lab (costing approx. $900,000) gives semi-quantitative values. And the technology is moving towards greater accuracy with fully quantitative values.

Swim speculates that a push will be made to be able to determine binding potency to a given receptor (very possible theoretically). This information, combined with a quantitative value for an unknown analyte would be enough so that the chemical wouldn't have to be identified at all and would fully stand up in court.
i see where you're coming from, and i think it's one of those situations where the poor, ignorant, paranoid/afraid, uneducated members of society (i.e. not a good lawyer, not white--sorry, but true, or those who have NO LAWYER or any other knowledgeable helper) get screwed because they don't realize their INHERENT RIGHTS.

as far as i know, there is absolutely NO LAW IN ANY COUNTRY that prohibits a compound which happens to bind to a known 'pleasure' receptor.

prime example is endorphins. People who run every day will probably piss out TONS of opiate receptor-binding neurotransmitters. hell, there's a reason why we have the receptors in the first place. usually, it's because our bodies make neurotransmitters that fit right in there--like a lock and key.

That's why the GC/MS confirmation test will totally, 100% absolve you of ANY WRONGDOING in the event of a false positive UA.

now, this also brings up the issue of the 2 basic kinds of tests: sensitive and specific.

Sensitive tests are for SCREENING PURPOSES. They have a VERY LOW margin of error. If you test positive for a sensitive test, it does NOT mean that you're actually positive. It just means that the next step is a SPECIFIC TEST.

SPECIFIC TESTS: These tests are calibrated for extreme specificity. in other words, if you failed the 1st test, you then take the specific test (usually more expensive)--like GC/MS to determine SPECIFICALLY if your initial positive test result was validly positive--or, was it just a false positive.

Realize that in order to catch ALL DISEASES (or in this case, all drug users), the 1st test (sensitive) is specifically designed so that there is virtually 0% of people who you tell "everything's fine. no disease." however, they actually HAVE THE DISEASE.

There are plenty of examples of this firstensitive and secondpecific testing in the medical world--not just drug testing.

i.e. sensitive test: routine (cheap) Complete Blood Count/analysis-where a computer totals up how many red blood cells you have versus white blood cells versus platelets.

this test is very inexpensive, and good to run just to 'be sure' everything's ok.

if something doesn't look right with that test, THEN you go on to the SPECIFIC (expensive) test like analyzing for tumor markers or paying a pathologist to look at the tissue sample under a microscope to actually SEE if there are any cancer/leukemia cells.

Drug testing is the same way. People will walk all over you if you let them. a shitty drug-tester might not even tell you that there's a REALLY high false-positive rate on the initial dipstick test. You have to KNOW to deny, deny, deny. Demand the "specific" test. unless you're really just busted, the 2nd test will reveal that you're actually negative.

-DICK

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thanks for the very wise post... swim really enjoy your input... lots of info and takes lots of time so thanks it is very appreciated!
  #20  
Old 07-12-2008, 04:55
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Re: Kratom shows up positive for opiates!

Are you seriouss??????????????????????????

SWIM just recently found out that SWIM is 'permenant' at SWIM's job, and still has to go in for a drug screen.. SWIM was 99.9% that kratom wouldn't show up positive.. SWIM has posted this on other forums, and all responses pointed to 'NO'. not possible considering that they do not test for kratom/mitragynine compounds. SWIM has been told that others that are daily users, went in for a drug test, even hair stran test, and SWIT said it came out negative..

SWIM's really upset now.. SWIM is a daily user of kratom.. This sucks.. NOt to mention, SWIM purchased a over-the-counter drug testing kit,
and SWIM pissed in the plastic cup, and passed with flying covers.. The kit claimed to be 99.9% accurate.. SWIM dunno tho.. do they test for mytragynine compounds?

SWIM heard a rumor SWIT tested positive for PCP while on kratom.. WTF? but then again SWIT was also taking effexor and heard something like that coulda been the reason why..

Dammit, now SWIM is mad.. SWIM never thought this would be possible to show up like this.. SWIM's job is the best thing that ever happened to sWIM. SWIM seems kratom has a helpful miracle plant to relieve depression and SWIm's anxiety..

It would be a true shame, if they didn't hire SWIM for the job, because SWIM somehow tested something positive because of kratom..

Fuck!
  #21  
Old 07-12-2008, 05:09
Richard_smoker Richard_smoker is offline
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Re: Kratom shows up positive for opiates!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kratom21 View Post
Are you seriouss??????????????????????????

SWIM just recently found out that SWIM is 'permenant' at SWIM's job, and still has to go in for a drug screen.. SWIM was 99.9% that kratom wouldn't show up positive.. SWIM has posted this on other forums, and all responses pointed to 'NO'. not possible considering that they do not test for kratom/mitragynine compounds. SWIM has been told that others that are daily users, went in for a drug test, even hair stran test, and SWIT said it came out negative..

SWIM's really upset now.. SWIM is a daily user of kratom.. This sucks.. NOt to mention, SWIM purchased a over-the-counter drug testing kit,
and SWIM pissed in the plastic cup, and passed with flying covers.. The kit claimed to be 99.9% accurate.. SWIM dunno tho.. do they test for mytragynine compounds?

SWIM heard a rumor SWIT tested positive for PCP while on kratom.. WTF? but then again SWIT was also taking effexor and heard something like that coulda been the reason why..

Dammit, now SWIM is mad.. SWIM never thought this would be possible to show up like this.. SWIM's job is the best thing that ever happened to sWIM. SWIM seems kratom has a helpful miracle plant to relieve depression and SWIm's anxiety..

It would be a true shame, if they didn't hire SWIM for the job, because SWIM somehow tested something positive because of kratom..

Fuck!
listen...do NOT worry about it...unless you've been taking anything OTHER than kratom, you'll be fine and here's why.

if someone calls you after the test to 'see' what meds you're on (a medical review officer), you just say "NONE!" (unless you're actually taking something else which you've got a script for like valium, xanax, adderall, ativan, diazepam, alprazolam, lorazepam, temazepam, midazolam, oxazepam, etc.---btw, these will be considered a TRUE positive since they're all illegal without a prescription...if you have taken any of these drugs and you've GOT a script, then the med review officer's call is telling you that SOMETHING came up funny on your screen.

now, granted that you do NOT admit to doing anything illegal to the MRO (beware! reasonable estimates tell us that THIS conversation is responsible for up to 50% of drug-users giving the MRO a REASON to stamp "POSITIVE DRUG USE" on your file! in other words: IF YOU ADMIT IT, YOU'RE GUILTY, YOU FAIL THE TEST!)...in this case, no need for an expensive GC/MS cuz the MRO has baited you into confessing to use illegal, mind-altering drugs. for this, they report "POSITIVE DRUG USER."

so that's why you must adamantly DENY any opiates or other drugs to this and any other people. They will then be FORCED to run a confirmation test (GC/MS) and you will definitely PASS the GC/MS.

see?

as long as you're clear otherwise,
then you have NOTHING to worry about! ok? -DICK

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great posts in this and other threads
  #22  
Old 07-12-2008, 05:27
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Re: Kratom shows up positive for opiates!

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Originally Posted by Richard_smoker View Post
listen...do NOT worry about it...unless you've been taking anything OTHER than kratom, you'll be fine and here's why.

if someone calls you after the test to 'see' what meds you're on (a medical review officer), you just say "NONE!" (unless you're actually taking something else which you've got a script for like valium, xanax, adderall, ativan, diazepam, alprazolam, lorazepam, temazepam, midazolam, oxazepam, etc.---btw, these will be considered a TRUE positive since they're all illegal without a prescription...if you have taken any of these drugs and you've GOT a script, then the med review officer's call is telling you that SOMETHING came up funny on your screen.

now, granted that you do NOT admit to doing anything illegal to the MRO (beware! reasonable estimates tell us that THIS conversation is responsible for up to 50% of drug-users giving the MRO a REASON to stamp "POSITIVE DRUG USE" on your file! in other words: IF YOU ADMIT IT, YOU'RE GUILTY, YOU FAIL THE TEST!)...in this case, no need for an expensive GC/MS cuz the MRO has baited you into confessing to use illegal, mind-altering drugs. for this, they report "POSITIVE DRUG USER."

so that's why you must adamantly DENY any opiates or other drugs to this and any other people. They will then be FORCED to run a confirmation test (GC/MS) and you will definitely PASS the GC/MS.

see?

as long as you're clear otherwise, then you have NOTHING to worry about! ok? -DICK
Thanks! SWIM was freaking out.. Although SWIM deos take meds- but it's wellbutrin daily.. As well as prescribed benzos- but only occasioinally for the big panic attack (sorta like right-now cuz's SWIM is nervous about this,lol)

Anyway, back on topic, Of course SWIM would deny it.. SWIM feels SWIM would be stupid if SWIM didn't...

Also, SWIM could possibly tell the person, that SWIM has been using cough medicine for a cough.. doesn't DXM test positive for an opioid. Heck, it's a cough suppressant..

Ack, probably better- just say nothing.. If it tests positive, SWIM will take SWIY, and deny it at all costs.

Thanks, for SWIY's response on this.. It's more reassuring for SWIM.
  #23  
Old 07-12-2008, 05:34
Richard_smoker Richard_smoker is offline
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Re: Kratom shows up positive for opiates!

yeah, i'd go ahead and tell them about ALL your scripts...

wellbutrin shouldn't trip up anything, but i'd still tell them, be sure you tell them about the benzos and be sure you have NOT take any other kinds of benzos than the kind you are prescribed as they can tell this and you'll fail---

i.e. i have a friend who took a bunch of xanax over 5-6 days, then was totally clean for 23 DAYS before his urine quit testing positive for benzos!!!

if he had done that at his job, they would have found out EXACTLY what benzo(s) he had taken!

needless to say, he has NEVER taken another benzo since... (out of fear) -DICK
  #24  
Old 07-12-2008, 05:45
Dreamland Dreamland is offline
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Re: Kratom shows up positive for opiates!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_smoker View Post
yeah, i'd go ahead and tell them about ALL your scripts...

wellbutrin shouldn't trip up anything, but i'd still tell them, be sure you tell them about the benzos and be sure you have NOT take any other kinds of benzos than the kind you are prescribed as they can tell this and you'll fail---

i.e. i have a friend who took a bunch of xanax over 5-6 days, then was totally clean for 23 DAYS before his urine quit testing positive for benzos!!!

if he had done that at his job, they would have found out EXACTLY what benzo(s) he had taken!

needless to say, he has NEVER taken another benzo since... (out of fear) -DICK
Slightly OT, but wouldn't wellbutrin(bupropion) test positive for methcanthine?

Wow, that sucks to hear about SWIY's friend.. how long do benzos stay in SWIY's system though??

Also, SWIM hasn't smoked any smoking blends (e.g. chillin xxx, spice gold, zohai, as SWIM worried it could show up as some THC analog.)

kratom21 added 2 Minutes and 40 Seconds later...

Sorry. SWIM meant to say Methcathinone.

NOT methcanthine which is a word that don't exist, LOL.

Last edited by Dreamland; 07-12-2008 at 05:45. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #25  
Old 10-12-2008, 03:37
OhCasey OhCasey is offline
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Re: Kratom shows up positive for opiates!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kratom21 View Post
Thanks! SWIM was freaking out.. Although SWIM deos take meds- but it's wellbutrin daily.. As well as prescribed benzos- but only occasioinally for the big panic attack (sorta like right-now cuz's SWIM is nervous about this,lol)

Anyway, back on topic, Of course SWIM would deny it.. SWIM feels SWIM would be stupid if SWIM didn't...

Also, SWIM could possibly tell the person, that SWIM has been using cough medicine for a cough.. doesn't DXM test positive for an opioid. Heck, it's a cough suppressant..

Ack, probably better- just say nothing.. If it tests positive, SWIM will take SWIY, and deny it at all costs.

Thanks, for SWIY's response on this.. It's more reassuring for SWIM.
DXM doesnt catch for opiates on a Urine screen.

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