Best Gram Value?

[mariecurie]

Suppose you could have a gram of 4-ho-mipt, 4-ho-det, 4-aco-mipt,
4-aco-dipt, 5-meo-mipt, or 4-ho-dipt appear out of thin air from the
cosmic unknown. Which do you think would be the best value?



I haven't tried any of these compounds and I don't know anyone who has.
A few of them aren't even in Shulgin's books and many aren't on Erowid.



I know the 4-aco compounds have higher doses than the 4-ho compounds,
so it seems like the 4-ho compounds might be a better deal unless the
4-aco compounds are just better. I know the 4-aco compounds do last
about two hours longer though.



I would be very indebted to anyone who could give me a comparison
between even a few of these compounds because I'd like to get a feel
for what they are each like.



Thanks!

[gn2osis]

I can't think of anyone who has tried them all. However, more
than one person has mentioned that 4-HO-MIPT and 4-HO-DIPT are about as
good as it gets for tryptamines, and quite potent as well (dosage just
as Shulgin says). Each has a special quality and together they
are very nice too. 4-HO-DIPT is decently visual, but has a
special "magic", a certain hilarity and music euphoria, but a downside
of muscle tremors and slightly loose stools during come-up (the gut disturbance being apparently absent with
4-AcO-DIPT, which does last longer but seems about as potent).
4-HO-MIPT, very visual and a little more "serious", and also a little
more potent (15-16 mg 4-HO-MIPT seems to = 20 mg of 4-HO-DIPT).



Of the ones you mentioned 5-MeO-MiPT is probably the most potent.
No idea of its effects relative to the 4-substituted family. <!--
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Edited by: gn2osis

[allyourbase]

itd be a toss up between 5meomipt and 4 oh mipt...

[mariecurie]

Thanks gn2osis for the comparisons. I've heard that 4-ho-dipt is rather
"inconsistent" in that 20 mg will get you to a + one day and a +++ a
few weeks later.



Many people seem to believe that 4-ho-mipt is a superior chemical to
4-ho-dipt, but would you rather have a lot of 4-ho-mipt lying around or
some of both.



allyourbase, I know you are a strong backer of 5-meo-mipt. Have you
ever tried 4-ho-mipt or 4-ho-dipt because I'd love to hear your
comparison of 5-meo-mipt with either of them.



I don't really have any idea what 5-meo-mipt would be like

[GDxCAT]

Iprocin is very inconsistent in its reactions.

Miprocin also tends to be a more powerful psychedelic, more consistent and requires lower doses.

The ACO versions of the chems are similar but not the same as the HO
versions. Duration, dosage and they tend to produce all together
different trips.



As to which to pick. Well SWIG recently ordered 2 off that list: 5meo
mipt and 4ho mipt because he believes they will be the most worthwhile
from that list. Having already sampled iprocin SWIG enjoyed it but does
not like its incosistent nature so feels that the 2 he picked are the
best from that list.



The ACO chems seem interesting but SWIG is more intent on trying a few other chems before coming around to these.



hope this helps

[mariecurie]

Yeah I figured since the ACO chems require higher doses that they
probably wouldn't be as worthwhile per gram. I've also decided miprocin
is probably better than iprocin since everyone around here seems to
think so. Why is iprocin so inconsistent? It seems strange that the
same chemical would react so differently at different times.



SWIM has tried 5-meo-dmt, 5-meo-amt, and 5-meo-dipt and hasn't had a
lot of great things to say about any of them. This makes me think that
5-meo-mipt is probably of less value than miprocin which people
commonly refer to as the best tryptamine there is.

[GDxCAT]

I know ppl who have tried all the 5 meo's without liking them but still enjoying the mipt ersion. It seems to be a good one.

i Have only tried 5meo dmt and 5 meo dipt but had good results with
both. I think 5 meo mipt will be better than both od these though.

Miprocin does seem like it has alot of potential. I can already tell i
like it without having ever sampled it. The best tryptamine that i have
tried so far is LSD (if you dont consider it a tryptamine than
psilocin/byn are currently #1)

[moeBius]

i tried 5-meo-mipt once and it was somehow disappointing, but more tests are needed for a final result.

i have the feeling that all 5meo tryptamines produce a stronger
bodyload and all in all stronger side effects than the non ring
substituted tryptamines. never tried any of the 4oh ones.

if you take a look at tihkal you'll see that shulgin also wasnt too pleased with the effects of 5meo-mipt.

[GDxCAT]

Well if you look in tihkal you will notice that shulgin didnt take his oral doses high enough.

Most people enjoy 5 meo mipt at around 12-20mg. His doses were no where near.

Also for myself i have noticed that the 5meo chems seem to give a very
sensual/sexual body high rather than a body load but i know i am one of
the few who is lucky enough to experience this.

[gn2osis]

mariecurie - I wouldn't agree that iprocin is inconsistent at
all. Full stomach does considerably decrease/slow the effects,
but that seems true of other psychedelics. Apart from that, it's
very reliable and predictable. I guess its inconsistency is inconsistent......
depending on the person's metabolism.



In a perfect world, I guess I'd like to have roughly equal-size vats of
both iprocin and miprocin around. Miprocin alone just isn't quite
as magical, but iprocin alone is too hard on the body and not as
visual. But together! Really the best of both worlds, which
is saying quite a lot. All the best wishes in exploring those worlds to the degree you can!<!--
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Edited by: gn2osis

[allyourbase]

4oh Mipt is every bit its 5meo sisters equal, wheras 4hodipt doesnt even compare favorably to mushrooms in my book. 4 oh mipt is very visual, and very powerful, it takes a bit of a high dose to truely get any effect but the effects are far more powerful than you could hope for from even massive doses of4 hodipt. 5meomipt is just a bit more stimulatory and lasts longer than the 4 OH mipt, however it retains its odd property of high dose requirements for true psychedelic effect. anything under ten milligrams of 5meoMiPT would be more like taking a stimulant than a psychedelic. after the ten milligram point though its visual properties kick in, and it is VERY visual. the dose/response curve for 4 OH MiPT is fairly steep, 10 milligrams is really just a mood enhancer, whereas 12 milligrams is an experience.Edited by: allyourbase

[Nagognog2]

I have tinkered with 5-Meo-MiPT on myself and others quite a few times. In our opinion it gives you the body load and initial anxiety of, say, psilocybin - but then it stops. No visuals, insights, nada. Either it would be good for getting people ready for the real thing, or it would make a good practical joke to play on experienced users! Until then, it merrily festers in my deep-freeze. That's my opinion of it anywho.

[moeBius]

Originally Posted by GDxCAT

Well if you look in tihkal you will notice that shulgin didnt take his oral doses high enough.

Most people enjoy 5 meo mipt at around 12-20mg. His doses were no where near.

Also for myself i have noticed that the 5meo chems seem to give a very
sensual/sexual body high rather than a body load but i know i am one of
the few who is lucky enough to experience this.

i never had the desire to increase the dosages named by shulgin because
they fitted for me in most cases. he proposes 4-6mg for 5meo-mipt while
on most trip reports on erowid &gt;10mg are taken.

[GDxCAT]

ive heard that its true nature doesnt show untill 10-12mg+



it becomes apowerful psychedelic at the 18mg+ range.

i will report my experience with this one in the coming weeks.

[waxhorse]

4ho det!!

[Nagognog2]

Well, I went as high as 26mg. with 5-Meo-MiPT. The feeling I would fly was there...the anxiety I would fly was there...but I never flew. And I have no intention of going further as I don't wish to end up grounded in a textbook on toxicology! Hahahaha!! Best of luck! But MeowMipt - as we call it - has no wings.

[allyourbase]

My gnomes have taken truely massive doses of 5meoMiPT. It is a very powerful psychedelic. Its visual range is unparallelled in their experience.

[mariecurie]

4-oh-mipt is actually 4-ho-mipt allyourbase, it's a type in TIHKAL. If
you look at the online text of 4-ho-mipt on Erowid in the TIHKAL vault
you'll see the correction at the bottom of the page from Shulgin
himself. THink about it, how could a hydrogen (which only wants two
electrons) be bonded to both an oxygen and a huge compound.



Can anyone provide a bit more information on 4-ho-det? I've known people who wanted to try it, but no one who has.



It sounds to me like 5-meo-mipt is either a home run or a strike out
depending on the person, but from what I gather everyone likes
4-ho-mipt. I think I might favor this compound then because of this
logic.



I've tried DMT, 5-meo-dmt, and 4-ho-dmt

I like DMT and 4-ho-dmt and don't like 5-meo-dmt



Based on this comparison, and the fact that I haven't liked any of the
other 5-methoxy compounds, I see 5-meo-mipt as being a substance which
could very likely be a "strikeout" for my body composition.

[gn2osis]

Originally Posted by mariecurie

I've tried .... 4-ho-dmt

you mean as mushrooms, right? Haven't heard of pure psilocin
being around for a long time. Miprocin seems a lot like shrooms,
maybe even cleaner. Enjoy!

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[mariecurie]

Yeah, who would take the time to extract the psilocin or psilocybin?



I'm very interested in Miprocin because it isn't speedy and it's short.
I used to be into really long trips, but as I've gotten busier it's
gotten harder to set aside that much time. LSD is wonderful, but coming
down after five hits is a little too speedy for my taste. An
abbreviated mushroom trip (that "may be even cleaner" than mushrooms)
sounds wonderful to me.



I'm sort of turned off from 5-meo-mipt because of fears of the
5-methoxy body load and because of the speediness I've always heard it
has. 4-ho-det and 5-meo-dalt are very interesting, but I don't know
enough about them.

[GDxCAT]

Hmm, my impressions of 5 meo dalt are that it is a somewhat boring psychedelic (not something ive ever encountered before).

4-ho det is on my list of things to try but nowhere near the top.

Actually this thread has resparked my interest in the ACO chems.

[GDxCAT]

oh, anyone know why commercial suppliers never came out with PO
versions of chems. (psilocin is 4-ho dmt, psylocybin is 4 po dmt.)

I would be interested in trying 4 po mipt as the ho and aco versions are both fantastic.

[Nagognog2]

The phosphoryl radical is metabolized into the hydroxy - OH - in vivo (in your body) before absorbtion, so there really is no point in going the extra distance in the lab and converting the OH over to the phosphorous derivative. Though some people claim they can tell the difference between psilocin and psilocybin, I suspect they also claim they saw Elvis at the Handi-Mart buying cheesecake.

[allyourbase]

5meoDALT is odd..... it makes everything seem waxy, pixelated....its fairly weak as 5methoxys go...but its worth trying...it is a very unique compound.

[GDxCAT]

nag, phosphoroxy turning to hydroxy in vivo is all speculation.

im with the group that claims there is a difference between psilocin and psilocybin.

If you recall the reason vedors started making the acetoxy version of
chemicals is because they were more stable but were supposed to have
the same effects as hydroxy chems. Ended up being that the ACO chems
were unique psychedelics in their own right.