Overdose - Swim's overdose near death experience

[slay]

Swim in his 20s, smoked less than a dozen times total in his lifetime. Nothing like this ever happened before.

This evening, he didn't smoke any. He drank about three quarters of a 12oz bottle of "enhanced lemon-aid", which claims to contain 2 doses medical cannabis, along with some friends. The only other thing that was attempted was a plain mint hookah, but that prospect was abandoned after tasting mostly smoke.

At first things were well, then about an hour into it (swim lost track of time), it turned into something very painful. Swim's arms went numb, swim's heartrate increased significantly, with palpitations, and BP was over 160/100. Swim felt his body caving in on him, each organ shutting down from the outside inwards towards his lungs and heart, and felt like he was unable to breathe, gasping for air. Swim was screaming from the pain, kicking while paramedics attempted to hold him down and give him oxygen, which didn't help.

Swim had to be rushed to the emergency room, all the while being denied frantic requests for water, feeling like his lungs and stomach are solidifying and that he won't be able to open his mouth again or breathe because it's stuck due to the dehydration. He was refused water.

After about an hour of the most excruciating physical pain he was finally given water, along with a saline drip and muscle relaxants. He had already alienated some of the staff caring for him by uncontrollably cursing, kicking, and screaming for help; convinced that he was dying, the amount of physical pain seemed enormous. Before the drip and muscle relaxants, he could not control the kicking, gasping, and wretching from the pain. His face was contorted. He declared his last wishes, sent apologies to his family, and curled up into a ball to die. He was in disbelief that his life was going to end like this but the prospect of death, or unconsciousness seemed far more welcome than what he was enduring.

After the drip, water, relaxants, and numerous urinations, swim felt significantly better. He was released several hours later just to be driven home and pass out. The next day he woke up weak with a massive hangover feeling. Doctors declared it to be a drug overdose.

Has anyone experienced anything like this or what they think this may have been, if not a pure marijuana OD. On a side note, his friends were relatively fine.

[PsychoActivist]

Is this a joke? if anything it had to be some kind of an allergic reaction. No one has ever died of a "Marijuana overdose". And from everywhere I have researched, the lethal dose of marijuana is either about one-third your body weight, or about 1,500 pounds, consumed all at once.

[robin_himself]

This must certainly be alergic reaction. I mean.... you even said that there was 2 medical dosis (whatever that means) in there. I don't hear alot of people nearly dying because of their medical weed. Didn't the doctors tell you something?

[RaverHippie]

Not so much an overdose but a panic attack. All symptoms described are normal stoned feelings but given the user's heavily skewed perception they could be viewed as unwelcome feelings attributed to a sudden onset of negative effects from a fatal quantity of a psychoactive substance.

aka SWIY just freaked out.

[Matt The Funk]

Originally Posted by RaverHippie

Not so much an overdose but a panic attack. All symptoms described are normal stoned feelings but given the user's heavily skewed perception they could be viewed as unwelcome feelings attributed to a sudden onset of negative effects from a fatal quantity of a psychoactive substance.

aka SWIY just freaked out.

Yeah sounds like dehydration + panic attack + psychoactive substance having control over mind.

[slay]

Thanks for the responses.

I realize the impossibility of ODing on weed -- that was not implied. What was said is that Swim went through excruciating PHYSICAL PAIN during this attack. So much so that he would kick, gasp for air, etc. Felt like someone shot him in the stomach and left him to bleed out. Body shock, lack of air, etc.

So I'm not convinced that chalking it off as a psychotic episode or panic attack is the answer here. There had to have been something else involved, whether it's an allergic reaction to some of the ingredients in the drink, or something unknowingly consumed before that would interact with the body in such a way. Swim is healthy, has no serious medical history, and isn't on any medications. He isn't allergic to any medicine or food.

This is why it boggles my mind when I think about what has happened here and try to pinpoint the problem.

And to answer to robin_himself, no history, and the thoughts were all nice & happy until he realized he was engulfed in pain and suffocating...

[Matt The Funk]

Originally Posted by slay

Thanks for the responses.

I realize the impossibility of ODing on weed -- that was not implied. What was said is that Swim went through excruciating PHYSICAL PAIN during this attack. So much so that he would kick, gasp for air, etc. Felt like someone shot him in the stomach and left him to bleed out. Body shock, lack of air, etc.

So I'm not convinced that chalking it off as a psychotic episode or panic attack is the answer here. There had to have been something else involved, whether it's an allergic reaction to some of the ingredients in the drink, or something unknowingly consumed before that would interact with the body in such a way. Swim is healthy, has no serious medical history, and isn't on any medications. He isn't allergic to any medicine or food.

This is why it boggles my mind when I think about what has happened here and try to pinpoint the problem.

And to answer to robin_himself, no history, and the thoughts were all nice & happy until he realized he was engulfed in pain and suffocating...

SWIM has had/seen people have horrible reactions from cannabis, including physical pain. SWIM doesn't know what it is, but always assumes panic attack since they are better after the drug has left them. SWIM has been in physical pain from cannabis before, but more like a mix of dehydration/panic attack when this kind of stuff happens too. He stays prepared with water and anti-anxiety meds, if needed. Allergic reaction sounds like a possibility though. If the hospital said SWIY OD'd then I really have no idea.

[robin_himself]

Originally Posted by slay

At first things were well, then about an hour into it (swim lost track of time), it turned into something very painful. Swim's arms went numb, swim's heartrate increased significantly, with palpitations, and BP was over 160/100. Swim felt his body caving in on him, each organ shutting down from the outside inwards towards his lungs and heart, and felt like he was unable to breathe, gasping for air. Swim was screaming from the pain, kicking while paramedics attempted to hold him down and give him oxygen, which didn't help.

Swim had to be rushed to the emergency room, all the while being denied frantic requests for water, feeling like his lungs and stomach are solidifying and that he won't be able to open his mouth again or breathe because it's stuck due to the dehydration. He was refused water.

After about an hour of the most excruciating physical pain he was finally given water,

This sounds pretty physical to me. I'm a psychologist and i've seen lots of panic attacks but this doesn't fit the discription. Any history of these kind of things happening to you?
Can you remember your thoughts and feelings before it all went wrong?

[tragicsunrise]

are you sure there weren't any other drugs in swiy's body? maybe someone added something to your lemonaide?

as far as swim knows from hearing it at the annual pot march earlier this year, they have yet to determine the lethal dose of cannabis for a hamster since the 70's. [not sure if's true, but its whats been said]

also, assuming it was water-based (as lemonaide would imply) swim would be inclined to mention that cannabis is fat soluble, meaning it doesn't break down in water. which is why swiy would have to add butter or simmilar in order to extract the active chemicals from the plant.

perhaps swiy is allergic to something else in the drink, a flavoring or coloring or something. but swim would be more inclined to think that swiy must have consumed something else unknowingly.

sorry to hear about your experience, sounds like hell.

[RaverHippie]

the reason why I leapt to the panic attack is that My friend is an extreme lightweight when it comes to weed and when he's gotten really stoned the physical symptoms you've described matched his perfectly. He also tells me all physical symptoms are exacerbated HUGELY when combined with tobacco (hookah smoke). Now all of these symptoms could be taken in stride or cause psychological chaos.

That's all I'm basing my theories on. But the allergic reaction doesn't really seem possible. I bet a citrus allergy would have already shown up and you can't be allergic to water or sugar (the other ingredients in lemonade). It seems like it's just a mystery because no one else in your group reacted from what could have been a "tainted" batch of lemonade.

[purplehaze]

This reminds phaze of the cop who called the police after he confiscated someones weed and ate it at home and thought he was dien. I don't think it's funny, but if weed was the only thing involved the OP wasn't in any real danger, It's always best to only consume drinks that you have made yourself.

[wintrojan2k]

"which claims to contain 2 doses medical cannabis" sorry sounds like a load of poop to me... So called medicinal marijuana is plant matter, or worse case some Marinol garbage. How one could put that in any liquid and then have any side effects is beyond me. Even straight up eating marijuana (plant matter) won't do much, if anything

[wintrojan2k]

I surely know what I am speaking of. If the THC is not extracted, it's fat/alcohol soluble, "cannabutter", which is where your "edibles " come from, or if a good amount is placed in spirits with a high content of grain alcohol for a period of time "green dragon", then consumption of just plant matter be it a cup of lemonade or a beer it won't do much of anything. Not taking away from dudes experience. He may have went through everything he described, but it's my opinion, as this thread is nothing but opinions peppered with a few facts, that it had nothing to do with cannabis. It would suck to go through what you have described (original poster)

Reputation Comments on this post:

They do use a fat soulable way to put it in their beverages, I forget the exact way, but it is possible they don't let p...

[Matt The Funk]

Originally Posted by wintrojan2k

Then let a mod do their business. I surely know what I am speaking of. If the THC is not extracted, it's fat/alcohol soluble, "cannabutter", which is where your "edibles " come from, or if a good amount is placed in spirits with a high content of grain alcohol for a period of time "green dragon", then consumption of just plant matter be it a cup of lemonade or a beer it won't do much of anything. Not taking away from dudes experience. He may have went through everything he described, but it's my opinion, as this thread is nothing but opinions peppered with a few facts, that it had nothing to do with cannabis. It would suck to go through what you have described (original poster)

SWIM just wants to inform you that there are plenty of medical concentrates in liquid form, in TEA form. Lemonade just happens to be a off-shoot of them. SWIM HAS HAD medical lemonade. "tainted". SWIM is in contact with the vendor that makes the majority of these and will contact him to see how these work if SWIY REALLY wants to know, or the Mod can't come in and clear everything up. And YES I know what you're talking about, I am just saying the people in the medical cannabis community have found many ways to use their products in food. And they use a FAT soluble way to do it, involving milk. These TEA edibles tend to be quick on on-set, mostly effective only on an empty stomach, yet they do pack almost (tends to be a little weaker) medicle effect than say, a brownie.

My apologies. SWIM thought SWIY meant that these edibles wouldn't have effect from cannabis, in general, which is why it wouldn't be the cannabis! Sometimes the substances get to SWIM (or lackthereof harder ones).

[wintrojan2k]

That's all I was saying bro, it couldn't be straight up plant matter, and even introducing some THC that was extracted with some type of fat into a drink and have someone respond as dude was describing, while anything is possible, sounds unlikely that it was a reaction to cannabis. SWIM's been around/used cannabis in it's many forms for 10 years plus, again just SWIM's opinion

[Shampoo]

Originally Posted by wintrojan2k

That's all I was saying bro, it couldn't be straight up plant matter, and even introducing some THC that was extracted with some type of fat into a drink and have someone respond as dude was describing, while anything is possible, sounds unlikely that it was a reaction to cannabis. SWIM's been around/used cannabis in it's many forms for 10 years plus, again just SWIM's opinion

OK, let's clear this up now. First of all, cannabinoids have solubility in many non-lipid based products, including some non-polar solvents that are used for its extraction.

Most cannabis-infused beverages are made with an aclohol suspension. High-concentration Cannabinoid tinctures (usually coming from kif, hash, or fractionated Cannabinoid-oil) are commonly made by first extracting the Cannabinoids from plant matter, then infusing extract into a liquid medium, usually a high-proof ethanol. These are commonly made to be as highly concentrated as possible, so a medical patient with a high tolerance can still use less than .5ml of tincture for full effects. These tinctures usually contain upwards of 10 doses in a 5ml container.

Cannabinoid-infused beverages are usually very simple to make. Most medicinal production facilities simply manufacture a normal beverage, such as lemonade, and when finished, add a specific amount of tincture, in this case, 2 doses worth.

Now, since there is no industry standard for cannabinoid doses, they can vary greatly. Most edible cannabis products are aimed at patients who require long-term dosing, which usually results in high-tolerance. Thus, the doses included are likely to be relatively high. Moreover, liquid suspensions can be unevenly distributed throughout the beverage if it is not mixed/shaken prior to consumption.

Alcohol suspensions of cannabinoids, especially when mixed with sugars, are highly lipid-soluble and will traverse membranes very quickly, meaning that the effect they produce will appear perhaps quicker than usual. This means that on an empty stomach, consumption of such a tincture can produce noticeable results within 10 minutes.

The OP claims to be an infrequent cannabis user, and consumed 1.5 doses of the solution. With no tolerance, this can be a hefty dose of cannabinoids. All of the symptoms listed sound like an extreme cannabinoid overdose (and by the way, OP, a cannabinoid overdose is absolutely possible. Do not mix up the definitions of overdose and fatal overdose), mixed with (as stated above) dehydration and potential malnutrition. Could more details please be provided about the diet prior to consumption?

I think more likely than not that this was simply a cannabinoid overdose. CB receptor saturation in a naive party can lead to hypertension, dysphoria, nausea, cramping etc. all of the symptoms listed above. Just like any medicine, high doses increase side-effects. There is most definitely a 'sweet-spot' in cannabinoid consumption for desired effects (euphoria, analgesia etc.) not simply "more is better". In the future, your friend would be wise to pace themselves. They can always consume more, but never take away that which they have already consumed.

Originally Posted by PsychoActivist

Is this a joke? if anything it had to be some kind of an allergic reaction. No one has ever died of a "Marijuana overdose". And from everywhere I have researched, the lethal dose of marijuana is either about one-third your body weight, or about 1,500 pounds, consumed all at once.

No, this is not a joke. Plenty of people overdose on cannabinoids regularly. They usually attribute this to other things, and call it a "whitey" because they turn pale during the reaction. As I said above, an overdose is not necessarily a fatal overdose.

While no human death from ∆-9-THC has ever been recorded, it can prove fatal in high enough doses. Here are some of the established LD50s for animal models:

666 mg/kg oral-rat
525 mg/kg oral-dog
29 mg/kg intravenous-rat
128 mg/kg intravenous-monkey
373 mg/kg intraperitoneal-rat

While I.P admininistration is rare in human for any drug, and I.V is rare for cannabinoids, the oral values are relatively applicable.

Please see the canna-wiki for more information on the symptoms of cannabinoid overdosing.

CB receptors are metabotropic, meaning that their activation leads the the release of g-proteins, and eventually second-messenger systems which modulate the activity of other neurons. In the case of CB receptors, their activation modulates everything from 5-HT to NE and many neurons in between. These downstream effects can have many unexpected symptoms to the naive party. High-dose cannabinoid consumption can activate some pretty potent responses in certain indivuduals, and most likely these are occuring through second-messenger systems.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	thanks for clearing everything up!
	Glad you cleared things up!

[overgrowinTX]

i think he just freeked the fuck out. he prolly only smoke schwagg before and when he took 2 doses of some dank medi grade he freeked. haha thats funny. he had cotton mouth and they wouldnt give him water. lol notice nothing actually bad happened to him, ie organ failure or death. looks like just psycholgical manifestations to me. my advice stick to smoking til you have a bit more tolerance. i doubt hed even smoked a dozen times.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Rudeness is not cool...

[Ellis D.]

SWIM agrees with the above post. SWIM has seen people freak the fuck out thinking they are going to hav a heart attack because they think their heart is racing but it is all in their head. Don't forget it's a mild psychedelic, SWIM has hallucinated on pot before, and if you don't have tolerance or aren't used to its' effects you can potentially have a bad trip. The high can be very overwhelming like any psychedelic.

[overgrowinTX]

Put very well Ellis D. I concur.