Effects - Psychedelics v.s. dissociatives v.s. deliriants

[rollingplayhouse]

SWIM is still young to the drug world and has only sampled two dissociatives (salvia which did nothing for me and nitrous which just made my face cold cause i managed to mess up doing whipits, and a little dxm but not recreationally). two psychedelics (a thresh dose of mesc from a san pedro which felt good, and a moderately strong dose of lsa from a morning glory batch). SWIM has never touched a deliriant (unless you count diphenhydramine which again, did nothing for me).

to SWIM, dissociative use seems to be the most destructive on the body and mind. granted i could be completely wrong because at least we know how dissociatives work and are still in the dark about how many psychedelics induce trips, and deliriants are pretty cool looking and the mythos behind them is badass, even if they aren't suitible for recreational purposes (amanitas muscaria and belladonna are both awesome species).

i know on a dissociative board the concensus will be biased, but what is your favorite class of hallucinogen? as a health concious star child, i myself identify psyches as my favorite. what about you guys?

[timleary263]

dissociatives rule but deleriants scare me cause SWIM ended up in the hospital because of them, and needless to say psychedelics rule.

[Mercer414]

Well, being one of the few people who enjoy deliriants, SWiM can say he likes all three of these. Above all though, he would chose psychadelics. They are just so much fun.

[drug-bot]

psycedelics creates a feeling of oneness with the world, dissacociatives makes one feel disconnected from themselves and to some degree the world. both psycedelics and dissacociative create visuals though psycs produce richer more profound ones with a much greater frequency. deleriants causes one to lose all connection with the world and unable to distinquish halucianations from reaity.. swims fav. psyc is a tie between mushrooms and the research chemical 5meo-mipt; swims fav disacociative is high dose dxm (in the 700-800mg range), he also likes ketamine but it doesnt seem to last long enough for him; the only deleriant swim tried was jimson weed (datura) and he hated it the side effects were awful and his friend told him (after he sobered up) he was rolling around on the ground making strange noises and they had to restrain him so he didnt run in the lake and drown (he had a bunch of cuts and scrapes, he has no memory of it and never plans on injesting any other deleriant.

all in all swim ikes disacociatives the best, unlike psycedelics swim always has a good and enlightening time on them, swim use to joke there like pyscedeic crack.

by the way salvia really isnt a delierant, its more of an atipical pyscedelic which effects the kappa opiate receptors, if swiy didnt get any effect from it swiy must have used plan leaf or didnt hold it in long enough; swims advice is to get a salvia extract (they typically come in 5x, 10x, 15x, 20x; though sometime there color coded), 15x is swims fav its reallly intense, oh yeah one has to hold it in long its best to aim for 30 sec for top effects.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good post; a combination of explanations, experiences and advice.

[riaahacker]

From Swim's drug experience here's how it goes:

Psychedelics: Causes him to really see the world in new light he becomes in awe with his surroundings he becomes a child who cannot help but to marvel in the new memories and new things that he is sensing. Psychedelics also tend to cause a sort of emotional intensifying effect and sometimes he can feel two emotions at once like anxiety and euphoria its strange.

Dissociatives: Unlike psychedelics that cause him to see the world in new light the world becomes insignificant as he slowly drifts away and floats into the dissociative void. Depending on the dosage of the dissociative it can range from a slight feeling of being disconnected to total ego loss. Swim finds somewhere in the middle to be the most useful for introspection. Without the world to sense the only thing he has left is to look into himself.

Delirants: Honestly swim cannot recommend these to anyone, swiy might be different but with delirants there were no insights, no new thoughts, just fear, slowness, and hallucinations. Swim kept having meaningless realistic hallucinations and swim's mind was going to slow to really think of anything. He was glad when the delirant experience was over.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Excellent summary of personal experiences, that answered the question well
	Spot on

[VitaminK22]

Swim has been battling with this question since he first took LSD - which is better LSD or ketamine. Swim hasnt tried deleriants so thats out of the equation.
LSD has the best effects - trails, visuals, time distortion, sound hallucinations and being part of the music etc. but it also has the worst effects, bad trips, paranoia, comming up off it is horrible (great when youve come up tho ), anxiety etc.
But ket has no bad effects in swims opinion, everytime he takes ket he feels untouchable, as if nothing can ever hurt him or bring him down. And when he has high doses where hes in a deep k-hole lost in a universe he built with his own mind, that is just brilliant. Also the hangover on ket isnt bad at all (infact its quite good if u have time to just chill out all day ) whereas the LSD hangover is shit unless u have plenty of weed. But swim cant ignore the fact that u take 200mcg of lsd and u are in a beautiful place for 8 hours.
Swim cant decide which is better cos ket takes you to another world completely and LSD makes this world look and feel a million times better.

Swim realized that mixing the 2 is just about the best thing he will ever experience, the acid gives the visuals and emotions and the ket takes all the bad effects of the lsd away and sends him flying around the room and shit.

conclusion psychedelics vs dissociatives?
i choose psychedelics on dissociatives
choosing 1 is an impossibility for me

[TheBadMan]

Originally Posted by rollingplayhouse

to SWIM, dissociative use seems to be the most destructive on the body and mind. granted i could be completely wrong

. . . because you haven't bothered to look into the matter in any detail beyond hearsay and what you see on drug-related message boards?
Go to a library and read real research articles and then see if you can come back and defend your opinion.
It's an opinion that many people have and insist they "know" is right, but it's rare to see arguments for these claims backed up with evidence of real physiological damage done by dissociatives. It's usually hearsay and "SWIM turned into an idiot after using DXM" type arguments.

what is your favorite class of hallucinogen?

It depends on how you categorize them. I see "hallucinogen" (even though it is largely a misnomer) as being a meta-category that includes (1) dissociatives (2) associatives (or "classical psychedelics") and (3) delirients. This means that I consider dissociatives to be "psychedelic drugs" or "hallucinogens" just like the classical hallucinogens (they just have some different properties and flavours).

SWIM has not tried enough of the third class, but his preference is for dissociatives largely, though he still likes the associatives. Largely, SWIM's drug preference depends on the aim of the experience.

[psyche]

SWIM personally prefers psychedelics, but he hasn't tried really trippin on the other classes. Some very deep experiences on NO2, but not high-dose DXM experiences. Third class seems too dangerous and unenjoyable, SWIM swore never to try them when he first tried mapping the territory of psychoactives. Lately, though, he has began seeing how it could be the ultimate experience of teaching one's intuition and spirit. Even if you don't know you have been drugged and what's real, you can act accordingly. Even if there are things happening you don't understand and have no explanation for. You have to trust to find explanation for them later, not do anything stupid or fear insanity, and maybe learn something symbolically of what you experienced. It'd be truely ultimate leap of faith on yourself. Could turn into disaster too.

It depends on how you categorize them. I see "hallucinogen" (even though it is largely a misnomer) as being a meta-category that includes (1) dissociatives (2) associatives (or "classical psychedelics") and (3) delirients. This means that I consider dissociatives to be "psychedelic drugs" or "hallucinogens" just like the classical hallucinogens (they just have some different properties and flavours).

I like the word 'associatives', doesn't have any bad sixties undertone and describes the effects well. It makes sense too; classical 'psychedelics' seem to be a lot like opposite of dissociatives. The third class of delirients just makes reality blend completely with hallucinations, making it 'true hallucinogen'.

[sandoz1943]

SWIM preffers psycadelics they provide insite and bring moments of deep introspection. The psycadelics provide a clearer experience.
SWIM also likes dissociatives as each trip is totaly different from the last. However the trip tends to be "dark" and hard to remember after.
(mad love for the DXM crowd for deffending the honor in previous posts the loality runs deep)
SWIM does not enjoy deliriants. It's one thing to think you see a purple unicorn and another to believe you are a purple unicorn. She can see a hundred ways the trip could end pretty badly when she didn't even know where, who, or what she was.

SWIMS wise friend once told her psycadelics opensthe doors of preception. Dissociatives open the door and then shoves you through. SWIM believes that Deliriants open the door shove you through and then bitch slap you across the back of the head.

Reputation Comments on this post:

The last paragraph is the best comparative description I've ever read

[RedBaron]

Swim much rather prefers psychedlics over dissociatives and deliriants.
With Psychedlic drugs like lsd and shrooms Swim feels like he can expand
his mind and possibly learn new things from the trip. Dissociatives like Ketamine which Swim has tried made him lose any contact with society.
He was incoherent and pretty much unable to function. Swim hasn't had
much experience with deliriants but likes psychedelics so much that its an easy descision.

[Matthijs85]

SWIM prefers psychedelics, but also enjoys dissociatives.
SWIM does not have any experience with deliriants

[Mupphet.Man]

This is an interesting discussion. As a drug user swim has ventured into some remote territory, having tried just about everything that's ever been thrown swim's way, but ultimatly swim is am all about the psychedelics. Now, the first mind expanding drug swim had ever tried would have to be DXM. Many people misunderstand this drug, unless you have tried it - and not just tried it, but gone above a gram, that's where shit is unreal. Swim hasn't come across any vitamin K, but hopes he will someday, PCP too. Anyway, LSD is great, swim has always had great trips, but the most earth shattering experience he's ever had would have to be on about 1200mg of Robotussin (Long acting, 15mg/ml). It makes you question everything, the first time swim tried it he thought he had for the first time found himself, meaning he began recollecting his life's events and really evaluating who he was. Plus swim says it makes the marijuana experience unmatched.

Deliriants......Well, if that's your thing.

[EscapeDummy]

Originally Posted by William White

The psychedelic effects of the dissociatives are difficult to explain. They are nothing whatsoever like LSD or related drugs (mescaline, DMT, mushrooms, etc.) but they are clearly psychedelic. For years I've struggled to understand the dissociatives, and the best way I can explain the difference between dissociatives and traditional serotonergic psychedelics is this:

Serotonergic psychedelics are Eros, and dissociatives are Thanatos. The serotonergics are Birth, they are sensory overload, focus on the details, awareness of the external universe. The dissociatives are Death, sensory shutdown, focus on the archetypes, awareness of the internal universe. Serotonergics are the "Ana" side of Chaos, dissociatives the "Kata" side of Chaos (Chaos being the essential driving energy behind reality, if you will).

Ultimately, they can both take you to the same place -- mystical union, ego-loss, or just plain "trippin' balls" depending on your point of view -- but they take you by different routes. I like to think of both routes as complementary ... but only if they don't hurt you in the process of getting there!

I think this by William White is a pretty cool way of explaining the metaphorical aspects of this discussion. Although, he doesn't address deleriants at all.

[El Calico Loco]

It's difficult to generalize, as individual psychedelics and dissociatives differ from one another. I'll try to illustrate using one from each category.

Cally's two favorite molecules are 2C-E and DXM. She generally enjoys both, and both have provided intuitive insights and serious psychological benefits.

2C-E brings her into the world. Despite the visual and auditory distortions, her thinking feels clearer, more sober than usual. The difference is as dramatic as the difference between sobriety and drunkenness. All her senses are heightened, like a wild animal. Animal pleasures - food, sex, stretching out and lying down - feel wonderful.

DXM takes her out of this world. She begins creative free-association which evolves into pure conceptual thinking. She visits other worlds that seem every bit as real as our own. She is euphoric; her senses are extremely warped, but she feels good about it. Any and all little aches and pains disappear. Animal pleasures are nonexistent and unimportant.

Overall, she finds DXM to be more recreational than 2C-E. It is likely for that reason that she also considers DXM more dangerous, as it's the only drug she's ever come close to having a problem with. She didn't steal or miss work or anything, but she did trip 2-3 times a week for a year. It was just so interesting, even if she couldn't remember 90% of the trip.

She's done a few other psychedelics: shrooms, 2C-I, 2C-C, 4-MeO-DiPT, etc. They all have their own character, but all share the attribute of feeling more connected to the world, in her experience. Except 5-MeO-DMT, which probably deserves its own category (infinitydelic?).

The only other dissociative she's tried is nitrous oxide. She loves it, particularly when mixed with weed and/or psychedelics. She would put it in the same category as 5-MeO-DMT, though far milder.

Her only deliriant experience is with 200-500mg of diphenhydramine. When it worked, it was like being in a waking dream: same visuals and dream-logic, except with cottonmouth, extreme lethargy, moment-to-moment amnesia, and the real possibility of physical harm. Other times, it did nothing. She doesn't recommend it.


ECL

[chinpokomaster]

SWIM suffers from depression and has some big personality issues. Every time he takes a drug which could go one way or the other these days, it almost always goes bad.

[Gentle Mintos]

Swim likes dissociatives the most because he's really been into meditation and philosophical detachment. Dissociatives help swim acheive this. Swim has tried deliriants once(600 mg of dph) and it ended up giving Swim severe side effects which have lasted for about a month(lack of sweating, takes days to urinate, dry skin, very hot, etc) and the anxiety and confusion are too much for swim.