Getting on Methadone/Buprenorphine

[fiveleggedrat]

Hello. Swim's sorry if this is covered, but he could not find the answer. It's actually for Swim's friend, but they aren't a member here.

Swim has a friend who is looking to break the habit and use methadone OR buprenorphine. Swim's questions are this:

1) Which is easier to get on? As in, find someone to script or get into a program with.

2) Which is more cost effective? As in, which is cheaper overall. Swim's pretty sure the answer it methadone, but would like other's opinions. Swim's friend is pretty poor, but the dope is costing too much anyways, and he needs off it before things get worse.

3) What/where is the best place to get into a program/obtain a script? A clinic, independent doctor, etc? What place is a sure-fire way to get on a program/regiment? Swim's friend does not want to float between 10 places trying to get help.

Swim's friend travels a lot so he would need to be able to take his meds with him, at least 2-3 week's supply worth at a time. Swim's friend lives in Central Florida, like Swim. There's a methadone clinic in Orlando, it seems the biggest one in the area. He wants info before he goes down there, it's a long drive.

I'm sorry if this has been answered, or whatnot. Any help with be greatly appreciated, and Swimmers can take pride in knowing they are helping Swim's friend break his habits.

[Gappa]

Subutex or Suboxone! My clone is in the process of a detox right now and I have taken it before but especially now I am seeing why everyone is claiming it to be a "miracle drug". My clone is in S. Carolina and I do believe the laws are the same there as well.
With methadone there a VERY STRICT distribution schedule ESPECIALLY for the first few months requiring you to go EVERY day to the clinic and dose. Only after MANY months do they "phase" you up to where you can have any amount of "take homes".
My clone was in Mdone treatment for 9 months and they would only give 4 take homes per week. Even after that long SWIM still had to go to the clinic counter 3 times per week!! My clone switched because the Mdone is in my opinion just as bad if not worse than H or oxy. It gets all in your bones and really F#$%'s your body up BAD!! Anybody even considering Mdone after SWIM's experience, avoid it like the plague!! this is my clones humble opinion only and what works for some may not be suitable for others. SWIM was able to stay drug free during the Mdone treatment but all you are doing is trading one evil for an albiet cheaper but worse evil.

[MarkyMayhem]

SWIM has been on and tapered off Methadone [2 years] and suboxone [8 months] and then suboxone again [2.5 years] and recently switched back to methadone. SWIM successfully tapered off of both methadone and suboxone with little to no withdrawal and almost no post acute withdrawal syndrome. SWIM also has been to 3 different clinics[methadone] and 4 different suboxone doctors.

1) Depends on your location, but usually methadone. With Suboxone, you need to find a prescrbing doctor with an opening, and come up with several hundred to $500 for the intake. Methadone clinics will usually take you right away, just find out what day they do intake and show up that day with $50 or so.

2) Methadone, usually. Suboxone requires an intake with a doctor, usually $200 - $500. Then usually several visits the first month @ $50 - $200 [usually towards the lower side of that range in someones experience] and then your medication which [if you have no insurance, like SWIM] costs over $5 per 8mg pill. If SWIY has a large or even medium habit, they will need 2 - 3 pills a day at least at first first, for a monthly bill of $1000+ Methadone costs around $50 for your intake, and then anywhere from $50/week to $13/day. That includes all piss tests, medication, seeing the doctor, counseling etc.

3) Suboxone requires a prescribing doctor. Methadone, just look up methadone clinics in your city on google and call them up. They usually do several intakes per week and will tell you when to come in right away.

IMO, The swimmer above is slightly misinformed about methadone. It doesn't get in your bones/body any more than any other long half-life opiate [suboxone inluded]
The Suboxone is nice because you can get a month script right away, but that also makes it MUCH easier to missuse the medication esp. in the beginning. Misuse meaning not take it as much as you should, i.e. taking days off so you can get high etc. There is no counseling and little to no accountability with suboxone programes. Methadone is inconvienent in that you do have to go every day, or somtimes 6 days a week for at least the first 3 months. BUT that daily accountability is needed at first unless you are really motivated etc. IMHO of course. At SWIMs clinic after 90 days of compliance [2 groups, 2 individual counseling/month and clean piss tests] then you get 2 take homes / week. After 6 months, you get 4 takes / week. After 9 months you only come once a week and after a year you only go twice a month. So it's really not that bad. SWIM went every single fucking day for 2 years first time around, he wouldn't do groups and kept doing coke and benzos...

In SWIMs humble opinion, methadone holds him much better. There is no foggy feeling or high or anything like that at all, it is just much more satisfying i.e. lack of cravings, sleep patterns etc. It's less expensive. the accountability is needed at first and usually doesn't take long to get take homes. SWIM spends ~ 3 minutes each day at the clinic on the way to work. Going early on the weekend SUCKS, but.. And no vacations until SWIM gets some take homes, but SWIM wasn't going anywhere anyway... In SWIMs experience, both are equally hard to taper off of and quit, but it can be done with little to no discomfort.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	good advice
	Useful information. Good post.
	very informative answer to an age old question, THANKS!

[Gappa]

You are very lucky Markymark. Methadone for MANY is actually so debilitating it can almost handicap a person. You are also VERY lucky, stacking combinations of benzos,coke and other stimulants with Mdone can EASILY cause death. All it takes is that one time when SWIY is fucked up and pops a good handful to come down off the coke and it's "dirt nap" time! This is fact not opinion! 4000 deaths a year and most are caused from "mixing"

[MarkyMayhem]

Originally Posted by Gappa

You are very lucky Markymark. Methadone for MANY is actually so debilitating it can almost handicap a person. You are also VERY lucky, stacking combinations of benzos,coke and other stimulants with Mdone can EASILY cause death. All it takes is that one time when SWIY is fucked up and pops a good handful to come down off the coke and it's "dirt nap" time! This is fact not opinion! 4000 deaths a year and most are caused from "mixing"

Oh, believe me, SWIM is certianly NOT doing that currently. It was a younger and dumber SWIM who was in to that...

MarkyMayhem added 2 Minutes and 52 Seconds later...

SWIM would like to suggest that statistically, the short term detox usually leads to relapse, while on replacement therapy for longer periods of time [i'v read 2 years is optimal] you get a chance to change behaviors, patterns people, places etc. before you get rid of that 'safty net' you have a much greater chance of staying clean.

MarkyMayhem added 0 Minutes and 26 Seconds later...

SWIM would like to suggest that statistically, the short term detox usually leads to relapse, while on replacement therapy for longer periods of time [i'v read 2 years is optimal] you get a chance to change behaviors, patterns people, places etc. before you get rid of that 'safty net' you have a much greater chance of staying clean.

[dyingtomorrow]

Originally Posted by fiveleggedrat

Hello. Swim's sorry if this is covered, but he could not find the answer. It's actually for Swim's friend, but they aren't a member here.

Swim has a friend who is looking to break the habit and use methadone OR buprenorphine. Swim's questions are this:

1) Which is easier to get on? As in, find someone to script or get into a program with.

2) Which is more cost effective? As in, which is cheaper overall. Swim's pretty sure the answer it methadone, but would like other's opinions. Swim's friend is pretty poor, but the dope is costing too much anyways, and he needs off it before things get worse.

3) What/where is the best place to get into a program/obtain a script? A clinic, independent doctor, etc? What place is a sure-fire way to get on a program/regiment? Swim's friend does not want to float between 10 places trying to get help.

Swim's friend travels a lot so he would need to be able to take his meds with him, at least 2-3 week's supply worth at a time. Swim's friend lives in Central Florida, like Swim. There's a methadone clinic in Orlando, it seems the biggest one in the area. He wants info before he goes down there, it's a long drive.

I'm sorry if this has been answered, or whatnot. Any help with be greatly appreciated, and Swimmers can take pride in knowing they are helping Swim's friend break his habits.

SWIM is just speaking for the Chicagoland area:

1) It is no sweat to get a bupe rx here. SWIM got one the same day he started looking. Same With methadone here, you will get some juice on the same day, but it's capped at 30 mg. So you are going to be feeling like shit for a while no matter which you switch to. SWIM was lucky to have a methadone clinic about a 10 minute walk from his condo, but he knows people that spend 2 hours a day or more going back and forth, so that would be a huge turnoff.

2) Being enrolled in a methadone clinic costs $60 a week here, so $240 a month. Bupe RX for 60 days worth of 8 mgs (actually 30 days of 2 8 mgs) costs about $350, plus the $50 doctor fee. I don't remember if there was an enrollment fee at SWIMs clinic, but knows some do have it. The 60 8mg bupes will get you completely off dope easily in a couple weeks though. They'll give you 16mgs to start if you tell them you do a lot of dope, but SWIM suggests starting on 8mgs. The weird exponential-like effectiveness curve of bupe, in SWIMS opinion, means anything over 8 starts losing its effectiveness hard, and it's best to just to start at 8. You can go down 2 mgs ever 3 days, down to 2mg, 1mg .5 mg ... etc. with no withdawals . You are gonna be in a methadone clinic for a long ass time. So in the short term methadone is slightly cheaper. If you want to be done with heroin in less than a month, bupe is cheaper. You could easily do it so as to have a bunch of pills leftover to sell too (not saying you should).

3) For methadone clinics, probably just gotta google for local ones. For bupe, go to suboxone.com. They have a doctor finder. That's where SWIM found his doc, after about 5 calls, and walked out with a scrip a couple hours later.

If you want to be able to travel, definitely suboxone. But if you really want to get off opiates, you could easily probably detox before your next trip anyways. Methadone clinics, at least around Chicago, take months of "being a good boy" before they'll even give you a weeks worth of methadone takehomes.

One thing though in favor of methadone. It holds you a lot better. I mean, it kinda gets you high, and takes the cravings away, being a full agonist. You will feel perfect on suboxone, it actually gives a little energy and is said to be an anti-depressent, but that is counteracted by the fact that you will feel FULL BLOWN cravings on it as though you were going cold turkey. It's really hard to deal with, but if you can get other drugs or have something to distract you, you'll be cool.

SWIM has been on suboxone for 5 weeks now. SWIM made it almost 4 weeks without cheating, but was still having cravings like the first day. He got down to less than 1mg a day with no problems, but the cravings are so bad he's been cheating any time he can get a $20 from his gf (every couple days now,) and his suboxone doses are like a rollercoaster ride (have no clue what a homeostatis dose would even be). All SWIM can think about is going out there, jacking someone, taking their car, and driving to the dope spot. He thinks about this almost as much as he thinks about heroin.

But maybe the difference is, SWIM never deluded himself into thinking he actually wants to quit Heroin. Ever.

[Richard_smoker]

there's no question. if you have any desire to quit soon, the buprenorphine therapy will give you the tools you need to stop the compulsion with a suitable, rather strong opiate that you will be able to fill and TAKE HOME WITH YOU (one month at a time).

benefits of buprenorphine/suboxone/subutex include:

• Ceiling Effect. after a certain dose, there's no point in increasing your dose. the feeling is the same.
• partial antagonist effect. also known as FULL BLOCKAGE to 'other' opiates...this is very effective in reducing the craving or stimulus-associated-reward for both opiates and alcohol. this effect lasts up to 4 days after your last dose of buprenorphine.
• Return to fairly normal life (this is while ON it).
• Comparatively shorter withdrawal period compared to methadone. However, you shouldn't just STOP taking the drug. your doctor will help you decrease your dose to nothing when you're ready for it.
• Find a physician in the US by searching online for suboxone addiction physician search.
• Each physician (in US) can manage 100 patients with buprenorphine at once. From what i've heard, this is a very large number. there should be plenty of md's in most areas.

• no MDs in your area on the suboxone locator? try discussing off-label use with your doctor. technicallly, any physician can prescribe this class III drug for non-addiction treatment (like for example, pain management)

-DICK