Health - Bad trip

[canadianmetal]

so my friend took two hits a couple of weeks ago with some friends. the sober sitter, who was in fact the most experienced of the group, pulled some cold war cia bullshit on him while he was tripping. he blacked out an unknown amount of time, and when he came to, was stuck in a bad trip. the sitter was making sure he stayed in it for the rest of the night. he was good at it, my friend didnt even realize what the sitter was doing. the sitter was someone he trusted, but over the past couple of weeks has come to realize what he had done. the bad trip lasted for a week. he barely ate and was unable to sleep. it was his first time taking the substance. now he feels like a part of him is missing. he feels like life is a dream and mind and body are separate. after three weeks he is still feeling the effects of the drug. lights are unusually bright, and he has a very hard time looking people in the face, or going to public places.

what should he do to get better.

he sees the sitter every day, but due to a very severe stomach ulcer rupture, which occurred around the time he realized what had been done to him, he is unable to exact the vengeance he desires due to a very high risk of re-bleeding.

canadianmetal added 4 Minutes and 15 Seconds later...

he is also a very heavy pot smoker, but since then has been unable to smoke due to the paranoia it causes.

[Panthers007]

Originally Posted by canadianmetal

so my friend took two hits a couple of weeks ago with some friends. the sober sitter, who was in fact the most experienced of the group, pulled some cold war cia bullshit on him while he was tripping.

And how is this supposed to have happened? It sounds from here like the paranoia is still going strong. More information please.

[canadianmetal]

he doesnt know exactly, due to the blackout. but immediately after he had some hazy memories, which disappeared over that week. the cia had trials using lsd as a truth serum. the subjects would reveal the secrets, then black out any memory that they ever revealed any secrets. all his friends tell him is that him and the sitter were alone in the bathroom for 30 minutes. the sitter is also very much into history, especially the cold war era.

[MindNRA]

Do you know why CIA does not use LSD as truth serum anymore? Cause it was never a particularly effective strategy. I sincerely doubt your friend did anything to you. Do you have ANY proof, concrete proof that he forced you to reveal secrets?

Sounds like someone needs to chill out.

[canadianmetal]

yea i try to. i find my self getting worked up over nothing alot.

[MindNRA]

Think about it, what if your friend did nothing. Maybe you were freaking out in the bathroom and he tried to calm you down? Instead you are gonna plot revenge for something that possibly never happened?

Have you tried asking your friend what happened in the bathroom?

[Songcycle67]

Firstly, it is unknown how far the CIA took LSD as a truth serum. There is a point in the MK-ULTRA files where the data just stops, whether due to top secrecy or lack of effectiveness. The more suspicious point out, however, that the documents stop just short of creating a manchurian candidate with LSD. So, theoretically, there is the possibility of some "mind control"--we know that LSD makes individuals extremely susceptible to suggestibility and in the right hands a person could perhaps be persuaded to do anything.

With that said, I highly doubt that SWIY's friend is that person. Anyone who would want to use LSD in this capacity would have to either secure the (rumored) top secret documents or be in the CIA themselves.

There is no data available to the public which would allow a lamen to brainwash someone into telling all their darkest secrets and then making them think they had a blackout utilizing LSD.

Truthfully, I doubt that the CIA made it much further than hypnotizing a few soldiers into thinking they were dogs or something. The way that LSD affects the ability to follow orders and societal mores would put a huge roadblock in the way of creating an assassin that would do anything its trainer said.

Also you haven't listed any things, to my eyes, that would suggest anything more than a hardcore paranoia trip in which SWIY blacked out. Blacking out and whiting out are both extremely common in high doses, as are paranoia and anxiety.

Many times when one becomes too stoned to think rationally on LSD, the person will become suspicious of either the administrator of said drug or the sitter. The most common "game" that is played out in this scenario is a game I like to call "You poisoned me, you twisted fuck!". In this game the subject becomes so overwhelmed with the change in consciousness that they think they've been poisoned or that the sober people in the room are somehow "tricking" them. Even when under managable doses of LSD there is a distinct difference in the mind between "us and them"--i.e. "the high people and the sober people". Usually that association gets more and more distinct as the dose increases.

The flip side of this game would be the "Christ mass" game, as I like to refer to it, wherein the subject becomes convinced that he has been misled by the material world and treats the giver or sitter as if they are a saviour of sorts; endlessly praising them for "enlightening" their dark and empty world.


This type of thing is a fairly common occurence when someone is given a large dose for one of their first times.

[canadianmetal]

So, theoretically, there is the possibility of some "mind control"--we know that LSD makes individuals extremely susceptible to suggestibility and in the right hands a person could perhaps be persuaded to do anything.

Thats what he did.
hes not going to go into details, but all of his faint memories point to that.

also, my friends eye keeps jumping up O_o . the sitter told him that there was nothing he could do about it. but my friend knows there is. any suggestions? it seems like everything he tries doesnt work

canadianmetal added 34 Minutes and 57 Seconds later...

yes he knows hes an idiot haha

[enquirewithin]

I think that SWIY really needs to talk to his friend. His friend may or may not have been playing games with SWIY. It's not good to keep thinking paranoid thoughts-- SWIY needs to get it out into the open but without too much bad feeling!

[Songcycle67]

There is the possibility of some mind control in the right hands. There is no literature to my knowledge that is available to the public which outlines how to control the mind of an LSD user.

It's only theoretically possible, and only because people in the psychedelic state are highly susceptible to suggestibility. It would take an expert in psychiatry and pharmacology to do so, and even then it would be really hard if not impossible, as there are no known records of it actually happening.


I was hoping that you would focus more on the latter portion of my post. The first part was more of a "what if". I believe that SWIY, under the influence of LSD, became so disconnected from reality that they believed their friend had done something terrible to them: the "You poisoned me, you twisted fuck!" game.

I agree with the above poster. Have the person talk to their friend and just get it out in the open. I believe that someone who volunteered themselves as a sitter, being an experienced tripper themselves, would only have the best intentions and any negative ideas were probably being generated by SWIY.

As I said, there is a common game that is played out between sitter and tripper when a large dose is involved and that game can either be one of terrified paranoia or blissful thankfulness and anywhere in between.


As an example, SWIM gave one of his friends a hit of LSD and it was their first time. He accidentally gave the dude a little too much, as the hits were stronger than the ones that SWIM had tested in the previous week. It started out fine, but as soon as the peak kicked in the subject started saying things like "I don't know if I like this" and "I didn't know it was gonna be like this"--SWIM could hear the terror in his voice. By the time they had reached the peak SWIM's friend was convinced that not only had he poisoned him, but that SWIM was going to try to keep giving him more of the stuff (which is the last thing SWIM wanted to do) and lock him in SWIM's basement. SWIM spent 4 hours trying to keep him off the phone so he wouldn't call his parents and tell them to come get him--he was that scared. Eventually at around the 5th hour he calmed down and the euphoria hit him and it turned pleasurable. He came out of the experience glowing and wanting more.

Obviously something happened to upset the stability of set and setting, and from SWIY's report I'd say that something was too high a dose.

[canadianmetal]

Well i remember that week he said to me "you need to be smarter than the game"

and also, the last thing i remember before blacking out was him saying "you know how you can make someone trip out really hard" to someone else that was tripping with me then something about "percieving reality" i dont know exacty what

but the bad trip lasted a week, not just a couple hours, and it was all centered around me trying to remember wtf happened to me, and being afraid to go anywhere because of the "lazy" eye

[MindNRA]

Dude, you just said it yourself. Quote: "I don't know exactly what". Stop guessing, get over it .... move on.

[purplehaze]

Personally i think that this person has a deep dark secret he is afraid he revealed under the influence and now his friend knows. Other than that why the hell would it matter now, because its over with and no matter how much we try to idolize ourselfs our lifes are not that important and our deepest secrets wouldn't raise the eyebrow of most.

My advice would be to stop worring about it and move on, theres nothing your friend could have done to you that would make things this bad, you are doing this to yourself.

Reputation Comments on this post:

A voice of reason!

[canadianmetal]

well he has made it very clear to me that he is not my friend. also, he wasn't exactly the designated sitter. he just happened to be there and had nowhere else to go. he actually told us not to do it around him. i know for a fact that for most of the night he was fucking w/ my head. it was my first psychedelic experience and i was too fucked up to realize what he was doing. and i can not figure out why the hell my eye keeps rising. i dont even know which eye is doing it. it pretty much has controlled my life for the past month. i get freaked out going anywhere public. i cant even bring myself to hit on a girl because im so self conscious about it. i really need to end this, for the sake of my own fucking sanity.

canadianmetal added 5 Minutes and 22 Seconds later...

i also remember, before blacking out, him saying something about giving somebody subliminal messages while theyre frying. and he kept saying stupid shit that made no sense. at the time i was too fukced up to realize that he wasnt saying anything, and i was trying to make sense of it, which only made things worse.

[Songcycle67]

Being self-conscious about oneself is the point. These drugs allow a person to view themselves objectively and see things about themselves that they normally wouldn't notice. It's the subject's job to sort out the undue paranoia from the things that were shown to them that are just criticisms about themselves. SWIY will return to normal, how quickly depends on how they handle such criticisms.

Next time they should try to secure the set and setting; in fairness the guy warned SWIY that they shouldn't trip around him.

But as has been said before: there's nothing there that wasn't already there before they took the LSD. The LSD just shines a light on the sub- and unconscious mind and brings things to the surface that would ordinarily be ignored by a person not under the influence of LSD. It's part of the territory. In SWIM's opinion LSD can be used recreationally once the subject has felt their way around acid land a few times; but even then strict measures should be taken as regards set and setting.


Tell them to relax, be honest with themselves, and above all be patient.

Reputation Comments on this post:

always good information

[canadianmetal]

okay.

well i try to relax.

and im glad to know that things will get back to normal.

i feel like every day im a little better than the day before which is good.

but that whole week i was frying was a bad trip BECAUSE of the eye. all i really want is my life back. im sick of going to public places and everybody staring at me and kids saying "arr" and calling me cyclops. somebody just tell me, or give me a video or something showing me how to get rid of it. 5 weeks is long enough.

[canadianmetal]

i think the reason its happening has something to do w/ the fact that i have social anxiety disorder. I used to be on meds for it but i stopped about 2 years ago because i felt like i could handle it on my own. now i feel like its worse than ever. i can even look people in the face without my eye jumping. i try not to worry about it, it still happens. i tell myself i like it, it sitll happens. Also, i have been noticing most of the symptoms of HPPD. its only been 6 weeks, so im hoping its something else. i feel like theres something nobody is telling me that will help me. i really need to find my way out of this.

[Songcycle67]

People are telling you the only thing that will help the person, Canadianmetal. That is to relax, to sort out any parts of the experience that they may not have dealt with (seems like this could be LSD's way of telling the person that they're too paranoid), and give it time.

There's no miracle solution here; certainly no one can help SWIY sort this out. The purpose of taking LSD is to cause revelations like these so that one can better one's self. It's not a party drug; it's heaven and hell. It's the ineffable sacrament. No offense intended, but what did your friend expect? LSD is the most powerful mental experience known to man by most accounts; even as compared to mushrooms and other hallucinogens. It is a psychiatric drug with wings, visions and magical incantations thrown in to keep the subject interested. Never to be taken lightly, no matter the situation.

SWIY will return to normal; but it's like mental quicksand right now, the harder the subject tries to act as if it never happened and block out the experience the harder their unconscious and conscious mind tends to beat them over the head with it. They took the LSD, whatever happened is over and done and now it's time to move on in a pragmatic way. Preferably, but not necessarily, in a mentally and spiritually fruitful manner.

It's time for SWIY to stop dwelling on the session and start asking the important questions about what is truly worth pondering: the self; regardless of their intentions or expectations and impressions of themselves before they took it. Simply put: be here now.

[canadianmetal]

okay.

well he felt like he had been doing alot better yesterdey.

then he smoked weed and everything went to shit.

and he had a panic attack.

he never had panic attacks until after he did the substance.

[podge]

Originally Posted by songcycle67

Being self-conscious about oneself is the point. These drugs allow a person to view themselves objectively and see things about themselves that they normally wouldn't notice. It's the subject's job to sort out the undue paranoia from the things that were shown to them that are just criticisms about themselves. SWIY will return to normal, how quickly depends on how they handle such criticisms.

Swim agree's fully.

Canadianmetel.... its not possible to have a bad trip for a week, the trip is over after usually 12 hours and LSD doesnt stay in the system very long. It is possible however to have a bad trip and then remain in a negative state of mind for a period of time afterwards, like an anti-afterglow. This most likely means there are many unresolved issues that swiy needs to deal with in order to gain a more positive perspective in everyday life.

Swiy is 18 so im guessing the sitter is roughly the same age..... how does somebody so young learn secret CIA mind control techniques and actually put them into practice.... its just not plausible. Maybe the guy was a bad sitter and wrecked swiys head for the night, but id forget about some malicious attempt to extract information or control you.

Marijuana especially in conjunction with a bad perspective/state of mind can lead to things like panic atacks.

Just make sure swiy has learned his lessons when it comes to playing with these chemicals..... if swiy has pre-existing anxiety disorder, psychedelics are a risky venture, if swiy is tripping around a sitter who you dont really know or like its also a bad call.

Swim wont advise relaxing as he knows its hard after going through a rough psychedelic experience, but swim will advise trying to get to the bottom of swiys pschological issue's and stop re-inforcing this idea that swiy was victimised. Many people have bad experiences with these drugs, look on the bright side, after a horrendous bad trip tackling everyday sober problems seems far less intimidating.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good job on calling out this kid.

[Chrippindoood]

Canadian, obviously the people on here don't know what it's like to be in a bad trip like that, unfortunately for you, it's lasted much longer than mine but i know what it's like. I was chillin with some friends and we were all gonna eat some acid. I already had my 2 hits, much less than I normally take, we just all wanted to take the same amount and some people didn't have the money to get more. So while my friends were getting theirs i figured they would take it as soon as they got it, so I took mine a little while after they left. I then smoked a bowl by myself and started trippin hard as hell. I was trying to talk to other people at this park i was at but they were all giving way bad vibes so I just layed on this hill and stared at the mountains. I blacked out for a while, I remember seeing some insane visuals, then I remember seeing my friends get back, they said the hook didnt have anymore acid and have to wait till tomorrow, i wasn't about to freak out cause i know what that could lead to, so i was chill about it, another friend asked if I wanted to chill with him that night (so he could babysit me) and i said yes. He sells pot, so we went and made a few deals, and everything was good, then we party and i drank a little bit. We left the party and went to another friends house, where we were just chillin and havin some beers. Both my friends that were there got drunk and fell asleep, but I wasn't drinking that much, at the time I didn't feel like it. I was up all night long and it was the worst night of my life. At first I was just exploring my brain, and I would learn new things, then i lost control of my thoughts and they went haywire. I started freaking out and I started telling myself I was perma fried, and it was never gonna go away, it's undescribable whaat my brain was thinking. Then I got online and started reading about LSD and all that did was put bullshit in my brain, and make me freak out more. Then I went on a walk, and my brain was so fucked up at the time, I HAD to decide whether I wanted to walk home, or go back to my friends and get drunk and pass out, then my brain convinced itself that either way I was going to wake up and still be perma fried. I needed to talk to someone so I went back to my friends and didn't drink, just waited for them to wake up. They finally woke up and I told them about my trip, and they said oh you'll be fine. So I kinda forgot about it for a tiny bit, but the thoughts were constantly in the back of my brain. During that whole day, I would go back into my trip for a couple hours, then snap out of it for 15 minutes. It was very hard to keep my brain occupied, no matter what I did. I tried smoking pot, but that increased the bad trip to even worse then before. All my friends were in their own little world, (it's hard to talk to sober people when you're frying balls) and I kept thinking. My brain was convinced that I could either go home to my family and never see my friends again, or stay with my friends that night, and never see my family again, or I could go with this one kid who is a close friend of mine but not of my other friends, and in that case I would kill myself. There was nothing i could do about it, at the time. Then every luittle thing someone said my brain would over exaggerate the fuck out of it, and make me freak out more. I kinda realized how crazy i was acting towards my friends, and they're all looking at me like they're scared for me. (and I realized later that they were looking at me like that, cause they wanted to help, but they knew it had to be in ME to snap myself out of it.) I was scared to death, I didn't know what the fuck to do, so i just grabbed my skateboard and started trying every trick i could possibly do, and eventually i forgot about what I was thinking, because I was so focused on skating. I snapped out of it, then I got drunk that night, passed out and woke up feeling pretty good. The next day, I went home to my family, and haven't been with my friends since. For about a week, off and on I would start freaking out, and the only way I could sleep was by drinking or medicating myself. It is true when people say LSD can change your life. Once those freak out periods slowly wore off I started realizing what was important in my life and I have to stop fucking up. I am now a full-time college student, I work full-time, and I spend all of my free time with my family. That acid trip was the worst thing in my life, but it was the best thing in the end. When your friend is going through a trip like that, for that long, it all depends on him, he needs to preoccupy himself with something, seriously though for that whole week, i would start cleaning my house and it would take my mind right off it. He needs to have the self confidence that he can pull himself out of it, i can't guarantee he'll be the same person when it's over, but if he puts his brain in the right place, and right mind set, he'll probably turn out a better person, like i did. I don't know a single other person who has went through what I did, I know people who have had bad trips, I've had other bad trips before too, but they were ones where i was pulled out of the trip before the acid wears off. It's a crazy situation, but it'll get better!

Reputation Comments on this post:

self-incrimination. also, make chapters so the text is easier to read

[chillinwill]

Originally Posted by Chrippindoood

Canadian, obviously the people on here don't know what it's like to be in a bad trip like that, unfortunately for you, it's lasted much longer than mine but i know what it's like. I was chillin with some friends and we were all gonna eat some acid. I already had my 2 hits, much less than I normally take, we just all wanted to take the same amount and some people didn't have the money to get more. So while my friends were getting theirs i figured they would take it as soon as they got it, so I took mine a little while after they left. I then smoked a bowl by myself and started trippin hard as hell. I was trying to talk to other people at this park i was at but they were all giving way bad vibes so I just layed on this hill and stared at the mountains. I blacked out for a while, I remember seeing some insane visuals, then I remember seeing my friends get back, they said the hook didnt have anymore acid and have to wait till tomorrow, i wasn't about to freak out cause i know what that could lead to, so i was chill about it, another friend asked if I wanted to chill with him that night (so he could babysit me) and i said yes. He sells pot, so we went and made a few deals, and everything was good, then we party and i drank a little bit. We left the party and went to another friends house, where we were just chillin and havin some beers. Both my friends that were there got drunk and fell asleep, but I wasn't drinking that much, at the time I didn't feel like it. I was up all night long and it was the worst night of my life. At first I was just exploring my brain, and I would learn new things, then i lost control of my thoughts and they went haywire. I started freaking out and I started telling myself I was perma fried, and it was never gonna go away, it's undescribable whaat my brain was thinking. Then I got online and started reading about LSD and all that did was put bullshit in my brain, and make me freak out more. Then I went on a walk, and my brain was so fucked up at the time, I HAD to decide whether I wanted to walk home, or go back to my friends and get drunk and pass out, then my brain convinced itself that either way I was going to wake up and still be perma fried. I needed to talk to someone so I went back to my friends and didn't drink, just waited for them to wake up. They finally woke up and I told them about my trip, and they said oh you'll be fine. So I kinda forgot about it for a tiny bit, but the thoughts were constantly in the back of my brain. During that whole day, I would go back into my trip for a couple hours, then snap out of it for 15 minutes. It was very hard to keep my brain occupied, no matter what I did. I tried smoking pot, but that increased the bad trip to even worse then before. All my friends were in their own little world, (it's hard to talk to sober people when you're frying balls) and I kept thinking. My brain was convinced that I could either go home to my family and never see my friends again, or stay with my friends that night, and never see my family again, or I could go with this one kid who is a close friend of mine but not of my other friends, and in that case I would kill myself. There was nothing i could do about it, at the time. Then every luittle thing someone said my brain would over exaggerate the fuck out of it, and make me freak out more. I kinda realized how crazy i was acting towards my friends, and they're all looking at me like they're scared for me. (and I realized later that they were looking at me like that, cause they wanted to help, but they knew it had to be in ME to snap myself out of it.) I was scared to death, I didn't know what the fuck to do, so i just grabbed my skateboard and started trying every trick i could possibly do, and eventually i forgot about what I was thinking, because I was so focused on skating. I snapped out of it, then I got drunk that night, passed out and woke up feeling pretty good. The next day, I went home to my family, and haven't been with my friends since. For about a week, off and on I would start freaking out, and the only way I could sleep was by drinking or medicating myself. It is true when people say LSD can change your life. Once those freak out periods slowly wore off I started realizing what was important in my life and I have to stop fucking up. I am now a full-time college student, I work full-time, and I spend all of my free time with my family. That acid trip was the worst thing in my life, but it was the best thing in the end. When your friend is going through a trip like that, for that long, it all depends on him, he needs to preoccupy himself with something, seriously though for that whole week, i would start cleaning my house and it would take my mind right off it. He needs to have the self confidence that he can pull himself out of it, i can't guarantee he'll be the same person when it's over, but if he puts his brain in the right place, and right mind set, he'll probably turn out a better person, like i did. I don't know a single other person who has went through what I did, I know people who have had bad trips, I've had other bad trips before too, but they were ones where i was pulled out of the trip before the acid wears off. It's a crazy situation, but it'll get better!

You need to go back and re-read the rules as you are in violation of them. Pay special attention to the one regarding self incrimination. You can use anything as long as it doesn't incriminate oneself such as your aunt, uncle, a pet, dream, etc. The rules can be found at Rules

[psyche]

Acid can easily bring a lot of awareness to ones life, and if one isn't used to it, it can feel like too much. As someone already mentioned, nothing was put in SWIYs mind that wasn't already there. So try to give it time, it's all in your head. This is a chance for great personal and spiritual growth. Doubt and confusion are part of it.

And I'd definately advice dropping the weed. It's been a major cause of paranoia and social anxiety in SWIMs life too.

[canadianmetal]

okay.

well this sitter is still playing mind games with me. he calls it a game. he fucking talks about it to my friend like im not even there. but he words it ina way that he can deny it. im fucking done going over there. but i realized its his bullshit that hes still doing thats keeeping me in this fukcing state. im confused out of my fucking mind right and i have no idea what to do. and dont tell me im just paranoid and hes not doing anything. he is. i cant explain everything becase its too much to type. and i know it should be obvious to me how to keep my eye from rising, but its not. he keeeps trying to confuse the shit out of me and is working. dlkj; this is fukcing bullshit

[Mr. Giraffe]

Dude, I'm going to be straight and call a spade a spade. You are delusional. You should not use pyschedelics, cannabis or any other pyschoactives, and continuing to do so is only likely to result in the sort of uncontrollable paranoid experiences you have recently gone through. Your sitter may be a mindfuck artist, but he's not a magician; your perception of the situation is so unhealthy that I can only conclude that your condition is such that tripping at this point in your life is a very bad idea.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	True, good advice
	good job calling out this kid