Effects - Desfontainia spinosa

[genaro]

Any one here with personal experience of
Desfontania spinosa (synonyms: D.obovata, D.parvifolia)
or Desfontainia spinosa var. Hookeri (synonym: D.hookeri)

Swim just acquired a Desfontainia spinosa var. Hookeri plant. Swim is mostly planning on growing it, but he might wanna give it a try some day. To be on the safe side, swim would like to hear more about dosages, effects, and toxicity as he found only very little info about this plant.

Here's the only info swim found:

1)A few medicinal uses, and also use as a narcotic.
The leaves are narcotic and have been used medicinally in Chile[192]. More research needs to be carried out into the medicinal virtues of this plant[192].
The sub-species D. spinosa hookeri is usually employed.
[192]= Emboden. W. Narcotic Plants Studio Vista 1979

2)Used by shamans in Chile and Colombia as a tea to diagnose disease and to enter non-ordinary reality.
In Chile, it is known as Taique, in Colombia as borrachero ("intoxicator"). Colombian shamans of the Kamsa' tribe take a tea of the leaves to diagnose disease or "to dream".
A tea made from leaves or fruits is drunk to produce visions.
Some medicine men (Curanderos) assert that they "go crazy" under its influence.
[source is 'Plant of the gods' and the 'Golden guide'. However, swim think there's originally only one guy that went to south america and reported all of this, which is to say that it is risky to rely on only one claim, as it could be erroneous]

3)'Spinosides A and B, two cytotoxic cucurbitacin glycosides (aka cucurbitacins) from desfontainia spinosa' (this is the title of a scientific web-article)
The cucurbitacins are triterpenic plant principles with varied pharmacological activities [swim could not find any info about the exact cucurbitacins content of the plant, notably because swim couldn't get access to the full document, if anyone can that would be nice]

4)Some plants of the cucurbitaceae familly have been used as purgatives, cucurbitacins are known to be cytotoxic. Some cucurbitacin containing plants of the cucurbitaceae familly have are known to have caused serious cases of poisoning (some deadly), notably Citrullus colocynthis, Bryonia cretica, and Ecballium elaterium [This is to say that cucurbitacins containing plant can be really dangereous]

5)D.spinosa is a desfontainiaceae, a related family, Loganiaceae, includes the plants from which certain South American arrow poisons are made [this is to say that it's not impossible that desfontainia have some definite toxicity]

As you can see, the info is quite approximative and far from beeing exhaustive so any additional info would be very much appreaciated (especially any info about cucurbitacins content of Desfontainia species)

[Alfa]

That is exactly my hesitation with this mighty interesting plant. Various books name Desfontainia spinosa as an interesting inebriant. (likely authors quoting each other) However the mentioning of it being used as arrow poison does not sound appealing.

I wonder if the leaf is dried before used as tea.

[Panthers007]

I'd like to know what it contains before any monkey imbibes a decoction. I get the feeling we may a form of plant with effects similar to tubocuranine-derivatives. That's 'curare,' folks.

[genaro]

About arrow poisons: this is about plant of a related genus, not about desfontainia itself (just mentionned it so to say that it isn't impossible that desfontainia also have some definite toxicity)
If it has been used medicinaly (in several different ways) that would suggest that small doses should be ok; however swim think that there is originally only one guy that went to south america and have reported medicinal and narcotic use for it, and thus it is risky to rely on only one claim (could be erroneous)
Also, swim is worried at the cucurbitacins thing (especially when he doesn't know the exact content of these compounds in the plant)
Note that swim tasted a tiny piece (5mm) of a leaf to check for alkaloid taste: the leaf taste just like medecine (it has a taste that somewhat resemble the odour of speed: chemical medecine like).
Swim will first try to get his hand on the entire study about spinosides to learn more about it (maybe will have to pay for access to that document). Then if swim wanna explore the activity of this plant, he will do it dosing very progressively.