Injecting - Femoral vein

[jason2404]

Hi all swim has been using heroin for13 years but have only had a habbit for about 5 years. Like most I.V addicts i soon discovered my veins in my arms rapidly dissapearing then one day he met another user who showed him how to hit up in his groin (ie) femoral vein in the last year i have been in hospial 4 times with blood clots and a bad infection. When the drought hit the u.k swim was lucky and still managed to get heavy weight but the gear was crap big time swim then decided to get clean it has benn 4 weeks now and swim is stuggling he is so bored he could pull his hair out swim finds cannabis helps but does,nt seem to last long swim got clean with subutex and subuxone which swim found very good one thing swim has noticed is he is very cold all the time does anyone else experiance this? I guess what im looking for is how other addict have dealt with the massive void heroin leaves in your life once you get off the junk any help would be great talking to other addicts and recovering addicts seems to help to help swim one other thing hitting up in your femoral vein is very easy ie no belt needed etc however the health implacations involved are massive dont do it change to smoking or snorting cheers

[fnord]

its an artery not a vein. Please re-read this sites rules on self incrimination.

[jason2404]

I am sure there is a vein in your groin it wraps aroung you femoral artery and femoral nerve swim has hit this vein hundreds of times if i hit the artery which i have done it was fuckin agony i can assure you every human has a femoral vein its very dangerous and would advis anyone not to try this

[fnord]

My apologies,it turns out ther is an actuall femorl vein next to the femorla artery:

Some radiologists, vascular surgeons and other specialist physicians refer to the femoral artery as the "superficial femoral artery" after the profunda femoris artery branch point to differentiate the femoral artery segments before and after the branch point. This term, historically, has not been used by anatomists, and has fallen out of favour with most physicians because it has led to considerable confusion with its accompanying vein, the femoral vein, which if called "superficial femoral vein" might incorrectly be assumed to be a superficial vein, as opposed to a deep vein.

[jason2404]

no problem mate when i read your reply i thought fuck i know alot of addicts that hit here and when you hit the vein its an easy hit however hit the nerve, artery you will know coz its fuckin sore one thing a hardened addicted told me if its pink think (ie) the colour of the blood you retrieve in the barrel also there seems to pressure involved in your artery as it is not easy to push a hit into an artery thanks again mate and thanks for the reply

[Solinari]

The femoral vein is really big, probably much bigger than you think. The problem is that next to it, right next to it is an equally large artery and nerve as mentioned, hit the artery and it can take a lot to stem the flow especially when people use a 25 gauge spike. If someone where to push the plunger after hitting the artery then that is one of the way legs can be lost.

As mentioned, injecting in the groin is highly dangerous and it should be avoided at all costs. Once someone starts in the groin then it really is the beginning of the end for the drug user. If someone has no veins left and the only place they can go in is the groin then they really really need to start thinking about getting off smack because it's not going to end well.

I have mentioned this before, the story of an old friend who sadly is dead now, he injecting in the groin and it was the only place he could go. The inevitable happened and he got an infection (and it WILL happen eventually), it was no surprise at all because he literally had a hole, almost a tube from the skin in to the vein. I was told he was injecting one day and inserted the needle in the hole and drew back, he registered puss, readjusted and hit the vein. Anyway, it got so bad that his balls were black and he was eventually taken in to hospital. It seems he did recover from that but a few months later he died, i never did get the full story.

Reputation Comments on this post:

damn good advice

[jason2404]

I could,nt agree with swiy solinari more swim has done damage to his leg hand side groin and i have a small hole about 5mm wide that no doubt ges all the wayto the vein i swim started having trouble about a year back i noticed my leg very swollen almost 3 times the size of the other leg this turned out to be a blood clot however when swim got release from hospital he smoked for a while however te desired results were not forthcoming so swim done the stupid thing and went to his right side of his groin this didnt last long about 7 months i ended up back in hospital anothr 3 times with blood clots and infections the doctor told swim he would lose his leg if he kept this up wake-up time swim started a self detox as soon as released from hospital i am happy to say my balls did,nt go black swim has been clean now for 4 weeks although the cravings have not subsided swim still craves heroin alot swims area is rife with heroin all his mates do it so swim is like a recluse at the moment which is better than losing his leg like 3 of his mates

Reputation Comments on this post:

Be safe!

[Solinari]

Well in for the 4 weeks clean. For my fiend he never had to go in the femoral vein he has always been good at self injection and even after about 4 years of on/off use they are still in pretty good shape. He has collapsed the two on the inside of the elbow on the left and one on the right, other than that they are still good enough to go in without a tourniquet. The story above says it all really, people that use the groin all the time inevitably get health problems in the area and below because of it. I don't know if anything can be done to help veins recover once they have collapsed, i think they can recover to some extent and blood can flow through them again but they are definitely never the same.

My fiend is very thankful he never got to the stage where he didn't have veins, he couldn't stand trying to get people with barely a vein in their arm, black syringes filled with a congealing mixture of blood and smack, not fun for anyone.

As for the void left behind, it is definitely hard to fill. My fiend has tried the self detox route a few times with smack and methadone as well as the NHS ones with lofexidine as an outpatient then the 2 week residential, all failed. Currently he is on 85mg of methadone and has been relatively stable for nearly 2 years, maybe less. He still uses occasionally but nothing like before and since this drought shite has hit he barely uses at all. I know my fiend isn't ready to be drug free and i think that period of staying away from the gear is needed before going completely drug free. I think if someone has had a problem for a while with multiple failed detox attempts then getting on methadone or buprenorphine for a while is the best thing to do. For a while it was lower doses of methadone, maybe 35 - 40mg, then after getting information from a top doctor in the field, he was told to go for a higher dose and eventually got up to 100mg, now on 85mg, it was definitely the best thing he ever did.

[Roscco]

SWIM has learned when dealing with Femoral, "If's it's dark red go ahead, if it's nearer pink stop and think".

[Junkhead23]

Originally Posted by Roscco

SWIM has learned when dealing with Femoral, "If's it's dark red go ahead, if it's nearer pink stop and think".

That pretty much sums it up for injecting in general. But if you hit an artery you know about it. It will force the plunger back most likely.

[Aberdonian]

Swim has ran out of veins and has been using femoral for last 2 years, always using new spikes(green 1 1/2") and always rotating sites,up down, left right and has had no probs so far but swim has been lucky, one of swims friends lost a leg and another lost both (2nd due to that bacteria in gear) but swim is off to rehab next month as he knows its only a matter of time before complications like dvt start swims had enough he has hit femoral nerve a coouple times which was sheer agony felt like balls were on fire, and also managed to get 70 units into the artery(due to not seeing colour cos of those silly uv lights in public toilets)swim was ok after 10 mins as swelling went down and pain stopped, but would recommend anyone go back to smoking or im, anything other than groin injection, yes its easy but def not worth the risk, swim wants to be able to walk as long as poss!

Reputation Comments on this post:

	For pointing out the risks and realising it is only a matter of time
	Well done for outlining dangers of using femoral vein

[Solinari]

Originally Posted by Aberdonian

Swim has ran out of veins and has been using femoral for last 2 years, always using new spikes(green 1 1/2") and always rotating sites,up down, left right and has had no probs so far but swim has been lucky, one of swims friends lost a leg and another lost both (2nd due to that bacteria in gear) but swim is off to rehab next month as he knows its only a matter of time before complications like dvt start swims had enough he has hit femoral nerve a coouple times which was sheer agony felt like balls were on fire, and also managed to get 70 units into the artery(due to not seeing colour cos of those silly uv lights in public toilets)swim was ok after 10 mins as swelling went down and pain stopped, but would recommend anyone go back to smoking or im, anything other than groin injection, yes its easy but def not worth the risk, swim wants to be able to walk as long as poss!

I am glad someone knows it's only a matter of time before complications start and they most definitely have been lucky so far. It truly is a sign of an IV drug users career coming to an end.

There is one thing i have to disagree with though and that is IM, or muscle popping, it goes against current drug service advice. Muscle popping (or skin popping) with street heroin, especially brown is just a bad idea all round, there is a much higher chance of infection taking hold with IM or subcutaneous injection.

My fiend advises anyone not to use any drug intramuscularly or subcutaneously unless it is a clean sterile made for injection preparation.

[msmogadon]

After SWIM read through this thread she has been thinking very seriously. SWIM has been shooting up since July and has had a few scary indidents (swellingof hands/ arms) and some really dodgy things close to infections. SWIM has not injected now for about 2.5 weeks and although being honest wouldn't mind doing it right now. BUT the consequences are not something SWIM is ready to deal with. There are enough worries in life!! So SWIM is having a serious rest. Remember the congealing smack going around in the summer!!. Nah can't be bothered abusing the lab rat he needs a holiday

[MotherSuperior]

SWIM has used femoral and greater saphenous(unknowingly at first, was'nt till SWIM got one of many DVT's there) veins for the past 10 years due to 'using up' all other veins.

SWIM is VERY lucky to have both legs but only just and suffers from life long problems including a chronic infection in the right leg that can only be controlled with anti-biotics but was offered an operation that involved removing the effected tissue and closing the synapse that has developed there(a big hole, SWIM has seen many of these and this is a big one and is constantly oozing smelly puss)... the operation will result in loss of sensation and mobility problems. SWIM also has mobility problems as the veins are in such bad shape that the circualation is awful, sometimes SWIM can barely walk and the pain can get so bad that SWIM was prescribed Morphine/Oxycodone before SWIM got a 'boosted' methadone script. SWIM develops frequent DVT's in both legs as SWIM has used both sides for all this time. The only blessing is that allegedly after all this time some 'peripheral' circulation has apparently adapted to compensate for the damaged femoral veins(and arterys? SWIM has has their fair share of 'bad' hits in these... ouch). The last time SWIM had a real bad one and at one point in hospital was rushed into theatre as they thought SWIM had a pulmonary embolism as a result of the bloodclot breaking free... it was made clear afterwards that SWIM would have been lucky to survive if that had been the case, the bloodclot dissolved harmlessly, apperently.... though SWIM gets these DVT's pretty often and SWIM has been told that SWIMs chances of getting a deadly complication like a pulmonary embolism are increasing. That being said the recurrent phlebitis is bloody agony also and really considering SWIM is on 90mls of methadone there is not too much further that SWIM can go with opiate analgesia(apparently). SWIM had an operation about 7 years ago to deal with one of many infections(this one was complicated by cellulitis, SWIM had a drain about 5" long in the 'hole' they made) in this operation it seemed that besides making one of many awful scars(now it does'nt even look human down 'there'.... even SWIMs 7 year partner can't stand it 'down there'....) they changed the anatomny somehow and this leads to further problems. At one point SWIM was one Heparin all the time for blood thinning and Augmentin as prophalatic against infection, swim was taken off Heparin as they felt it unwise as they believed SWIM to still inject. SWIM still takes the Augmentin all the time which is a very strong anti biotic and gives SWIM lots of problems like bad stomachs and a bad immune system. Theres been so many problems over the past decade with SWIMS 'legs' SWIM and everyone else is suprised SWIM still has both legs, albeit in permanent pain, infected, oozing, not working too well, with a problem that may well cause a complication that is life threatening.

Believe it or not, SWIM STILL uses the groin... although SWIM is not as careless as SWIM used to be(injecting tablets, SWIM now filters these pretty well...). SWIM knows how stupid this is and really does try to use other places but SWIM just does'nt have good veins as they are soon lost. SWIM believes that SWIM has a very bad needle fixation and has actually recently recognized and admitted it to SWIMself. The thing is that injecting in this area really lends itself to such an addiction for the main reason as once SWIM 'found out' how to do it, it was easy and quick to inject anything from H to SWIMs favourite dexy's and methadone or H and coke no matter how much(SWIM used to use 10ml barrels with 200mg of methadone/4*50mg/1ml amps and 6 dexy tablets/6mg of water/whatever). It was/is just so easy and quick, after a while even painless due to the formation of the 'holes' that travel straight to the vein. SWIM is now on their 3rd 'hole' on the right side from moving down the vein as eventually the vein just got too scared. In any case it is a REALLY tough addiction as SWIM likes IVing all SWIM drugs and SWIM likes pretty much all drugs... SWIM has even had some close shots with IVing anything and everything from nearly ODing on Seconal capsules opened and diluted with water to IVing an E tablet(SWIM must have been having a bad day, in any case SWIMs heart was younger then and has never hurt so much... SWIM thought SWIMs chest was going to explode). It all sounds like craziness to most people but SWIM has found some people can relate to this needle fixation that SWIM has.

So SWIM is lucky to still have SWIMs legs but has had pretty much every problem possible, they are the 'worst' that SWIM has shown anyone even addicts of 40years or more. SWIM will always have problems walking and always have very bad pain.... and SWIM has been told that SWIM may still need an amputation if the circulation gets any worse to cause any significant tissue damage. SWIM is not into 'scare tactics' and thinks people should make their own choice but SWIM wishes that SWIM knew someone like SWIM 10 years ago so SWIM could at least of made an educated choice. Of those people that do go in their groin that SWIM knows, SWIM has known people lose limbs as young as 17. SWIM cannot say he knows many people who lived'happily ever after' other than those who managed to stop injecting all together. Femoral injecting really is, in SWIMS opinion, the last chance saloon for anyone. On a brighter note SWIM is now on oral meds and is much more carefull when SWIM uses femoral which is now about only one day a week but SWIM still has had 'moments' like when SWIM hit the artery twice a few weeks back, well the second time it was in a 'hollow part' in SWIMs right leg caused by something called 'pseudo something syndrome' where there is a bulge in the artey and it is big enough to sometimes get in the way of injecting in the vein. Really, SWIM cannot express to people more how femoral injecting can really be the major turning point in a persons habit. And people who do go in the groin, well SWIM can say that SWIM is the only person that SWIM has ever heard of doing it this long, just bad things always seem to come of it.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Extremely powerful post. More paragraphs would be good though!
	Great post. Will put off many from using the femoral vein