help please concerned about the girl i love and opiates are involved ruining her life

[will7]

i dated my ex for 2+ years and recently i found out she was seeing another guy behind my back but then through that i learned she had been snorting percocets 30's for the last 6-11 months i dont know exactly and the kid she is with is a kid who does them and sells them too they met through the pills. I'm very lost she started to fall like deeper and deeper away from me and became very moody and nodding off i didnt understand what was happening until the pills came into play and i did reserch and understood it a little more. since the break up she has gotten fired stopped going to school lost her best friend gained new ones but girls who do pills too and moved in with him. I feel like i should blame this change on the pills and a little on her but understand she is sick and it can change you into a different person. I love her with all my heart and i see her hurting the kid treats her bad like cheated on her several times once with her friend in the last 1-2 months since ive been gone people who know her say she looks horrible not happy and just like she isnt taking care of herself he has also liked rub in the pills to her like u really want one dont u brings her out once and bought a plate to share and she ate most of it and he got mad at her for it. Will people deal with that kinda stuff just for the pills its like he is the only thing left enabling her to do them. Would it be a bad idea to keep loving her from a distance or just move on? im willing to help her but i want to know if it is the pills or her and wanted to get opinions from everyone from the things that have happened what the case is? Im very confused on what to do because my heart is with her but things she has done make my brain tell me how can you forgive her i feel like she is a different person she went from a sweet faithful girl to a cheat user liar and from what ive said does pills do that to people and do they have a chance to be ok again? Is it good that i still love her and dont just give up on her and want to give her a 2nd chance because the pills are invovled does it give people a better chance to get better when they have someone who is willing to put up with the shit from a distance and when they want help be there for them and understand they were sick it changes your brain i heard? thank you for the help i just feel she isnt the same but she still has a chance :/

Reputation Comments on this post:

You can do it for her if you love her - love saved me from 2 yrs of IV heroin

[Dickon]

It may or may not be true that....(there is a rule against self- incrimination on this forum. I think you're ok incriminating someone else, but I might just incriminate myself in my reply to you)

Will7,

I feel your pain. So let me tell you there is some (very) good news, and some (very) bad news. I'm a firm believer in starting with the bad, and ending with the good so here goes. Please don't get too despondant throught the bad news part.

You are completely and utterly powerless to help this girl if she does not want to help herself. Although I am not 100% in agreement about this, a lot of people say the kindest (in a cruel to be kind way) thing to do is to cut off all contact with her whilst she is using the drugs. The reason is that the harder her life becomes the more likely it is that she will stop using the pills. Now, you've said how shit her life seems now, but she is still using. In the mind of an addict, almost any price seems worth it to get the next fix. But every now and again (and sadly this may be 20-30 years down the line, or not happen because she's killed herself from her addict lifestyle, but also it might be tomorrow!) an addict has some particularly jarring experience that flips the balance. In 12 step-terms (This is N.A. etc. i.e. one programme for addicts who are trying to stay clean) this is called a rock bottom. Alternatively there might be some moment of clarity, where the addict sees what she's really become (addiction is a disease of denial. Your friend will not see her self as you see her. Remember that. Chances are if you confront her on how awful she's got she'll just scream at you, deny it, and run off). When this occurs the addict may seek help, and that's when it's important to be there for her. There is very little you can do to help her reach that point where she seeks help more quickly. One thing that might help is a loving and caring intervention of her old (not her pill-using) friends, but don't expect success.

So think of a favourite pet bird that you've just let out of a cage. Let her go, with love. She might fly back, she might not, but in practical terms judging by what I think her age is (assuming it's under 25), if she ever flies back it might be a long time before she does. It's just a suggestion, but how about writing a good-bye letter telling her how much you love her and how it breaks your heart to see what's she become. Tell her if she ever wants help to stop using you'll be there for her, but until then you'll not condone what she's doing. It will probably make her furious, but on some dark day, it might be the spur that makes her come to you for help.

One other very bad thing, is that addiction is very often accompanied by relapse. It's not inevitable, but it is the norm. So at least initially if she seems to get better, don't put all your emotional eggs in one basket. Go slow.

Right. That's the (very) bad stuff out the way now for the very good stuff. The woman you love is still there! She's burried, but if she manages to quit, she'll be as good as new, if not better than new, at least unless she's done herself physical harm that won't heal. I think percocets are Oxycodone/Paracetamol(known as APAP/acetaminophen if you're American). If I'm right there is a possibility of liver damage. It would be far better for her if she could get pure Oxycodone (i.e. Oxycontin, Oxynorm, etc.). If she doesn't know that it's something worth telling her. From what you say, she has only one supplier, so this might be useless advice. [oopppps sorry this was supposed to be the bad stuff over!!].

Opiates/Opioids (i.e. heroin, morphine, oxycodone, hydrocodone, methadone, etc. etc.) are all surprisingly safe drugs that do the body little harm even if used properly for decades. The good news about her using pills and not heroin is that she is not so likely to overdose. Pills are always the same strength, so that's another good thing.

So cross your fingers, but let go with love(it is I promiss you out of your hands).

Just so you know my angle on this thing, I'm speaking as a man of 38 pushing 39 who's only 3 days out of a 20 year slavery to these drugs (3 1/2 years off for good behaviour, which were infinitely the best). I am feeling ropey at the moment, but I'm sure once the withdrawals go away, I'll be better than new. Addiction is not a death sentence!

Just post-back or message me if you have any questions.

Love and best wishes for both of you

Dr D.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	very good information! keep it up
	good effort with this reply

[dyingtomorrow]

She still has a chance. You need to be careful though, because pill addictions easily turn into Heroin addiction, and if that happens your odds of getting her back will decrease to a fraction of what they were when she was just snorting pills.

She is not a different person. Her feelings are all the same for you, but she doesn't fully realize how different she actually seems to you and other people compared to how she thinks she seems, and how that makes you feel.

If you really love her and want to be with her, what she needs is patience, love, and time. Treating the physical addiction is the easy part, and there are a lot of very affordable places you can get help from. In Chicago, for example, there is a place called the SHARE program, and if you have no money you can do a live-in 28 day detox for $300 upfront and $500 whenever you can pay it later (that is, if you do the Suboxone step down), and that includes everything like food, exercise room, counselling, etc. There are other places like that all over the country, some free even.

If she's very strong she could step her dose down herself, and go cold turkey (which is no where near as bad for people snorting pills as for other types of opiate addicts). She would need you to take care of her in that case. Treating the physical addiction is the first step, but like anyone will tell you the mental aspect is equally important.
That's the tricky part.

I said she would need love, patience, and time. If you really love her, want to keep her, and be with her, you will need to be extremely gentle with her while she goes through it. Of course it is frustrating as hell, and there are a million things you can say to an opiate addict about how stupid they are, and how bad they fucked up - but DON'T. The #1 thing that makes people go back to opiate abuse is stress. While she is detoxing, whatever you decide to do, tell her everything will be okay, tell her that none of the problems she is thinking about are actually problems, that you can solve them all. Even if it's not true, she will be in a delicate mental state for a while before she hardens back up into a normal person who can deal with stress in a healthy way. If you are too abusive or pessimistic or critical, she will likely do something crazy, from stealing your money and running off and getting high and calling you crying later, to killing herself.

This doesn't mean you have to treat her like a baby forever, and afterwards when her world clears up you will definitely have some issues to work out, but if you really want to help her you need to make your love for her seem unconditional at the time, and be infinitely patient with her until she is off the drugs, through the sickness, and mentally normal again.

Hope this helps. I would very much like to hear an update about how things are going for you. I truly hope things go well for you and that you can help her.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good reply

[Dickon]

^^^^^ I'm maybe lying when I say...
I must beg to differ about treating the phyical addiction being the easy part. But it is certainly a view prevalent in N.A.

[dyingtomorrow]

Originally Posted by Dickon

^^^^^ I'm maybe lying when I say...
I must beg to differ about treating the phyical addiction being the easy part. But it is certainly a view prevalent in N.A.

Never been to N.A., but compared to the simple chemical physical solution, how could you even compare it to the amount of hell, work, and TIME it takes to mentally get over an opiate addiction?

[Dickon]

^ ^ ^ ^ It is obviously untrue that.....(or is it? you decide)......

I have quit opiates and stayed clean for over a year twice in my life. After a month the first time and 2-3 weeks the second time I was on cloud nine! I enjoyed 23 months without a drug or drinking the first time. The second time it was 17 months. What drove me back both times was being really gready not being at all unhappy or in any normal sense of the word driven back, just stupid / arrogant enough to think I was sufficiently "well" that I could use opiates once a week without consequences. I may just be incredibly lucky but I think PAWS is something that only exists in people who quit opiates, but continue drinking or using other drugs. I used to be an NA member (I'm not anymore. This time I'm doing it my way), and PAWS was never once mentioned. Instead there was a kind of anti-PAWS, called the "pink cloud". If you quit all drugs and alcohol, including opiates, I'd say you've got a very high chance of getting some time on the "pink cloud" :feeling really proud, phsically well, eating well, and excercising. I do however know a lot of people who have quit for a reasonable period of time but never really given up the love of the drugs. In this case, the chance of relapse is much much higher. I am lucky that I am a naturally very up sort of person!

Admittedly I'm only 108 hours off opiates after tapering down from 225mg methadone a day to 5mg. I am still not over the w.d.s, but am over the worst of them. This may be colouring my perspective, considering the hell I've had to fight these last weeks, but I know I said the same thing after a year of being off. I'd, perhaps somewhat nastilly, jibe that people who said that never really had a habit! Nevertheless I've heard what you say said by many people, so it's clearly a valid point of view, but my own experience has always been quite the oposite. Let's agree to differ.

Dickon added 8 Minutes and 38 Seconds later...

P.S. again I lie ..maybe.. Specifically apropos the "mental side to opiate addiction": Every time I've quit I've simply loathed the damn things, and had enough of them, there really was no psychological addiction. It's the same for me now, 4 1/2 days off drugs. I did the first couple of days with a ton of methadone in my cupboard. I had no psychological temptation to use it. You could have put oral morphine, or a syringe of heroin by my bed, it would have made no differnce. It's only when sufficient time has passed for me to forget the hell these damn opiates put me through that I used again. I really don't think it was "mental addiction". I think I was rebelling against N.A. Bear in mind I'd been using for about 10 years straight when I first cleaned up, and now with roughly 3 1/2 off for good behaviour have been on them 20 years. The romance, glamour, appeal, etc., is simply DEAD. But everybody quits in their own way. This is simply my experience. It's far from unique, but it is perhaps a minority one.

[will7]

see though she is with the kid who is helping her with the pills she lost everything she dont work she lives off him and she is using her pregnancy against him for the pills she keeps putting an abortion off so she has that against him i treat her real good when i hear she is getting treated badly i try to be there she pushes me away and does really messed up things like send pics they text me she tells me to leave her alone but i feel like she is a different person like it dont make sense she just stopped loving me when she was deep into an addiction like i feel the chance i have is when she gets clean she will realize and come back around right now she dont want help from anyone so what should i do wait and love her from a distance the kid says after the abortion he is done with her he is just nice because she holds it against him basically for the place to stay pills food because she lost everything else that has to do with supporting her addiction but after the abortion she is out and then i fell like she will finally hit bottom and notice and get clean will then she regret what she did to everyone around her and try to make it right and get her old life back it dont make sense that her feelings are the same at all she hurt everyone that didnt have to do with pills with the kid being a big part but i feel she dont care he is suppling the pills so she will go with it and doesnt really notice what she is really doing like her care factor is zero right now just wants the pills dont care who she hurts but if she was clean she dont and never did that

[Dickon]

The advice I've given above still stands in my view. If I was God, I wouldn't let anyone go through what either you or her are going through, but I'm not so we're stuck with life on life's terms, which is not always pretty. The playing "will I, won't I?" with an abortion seems plain wrong to me. But it no doubt makes perfect sense in her world if it gets her drugs. What I don't understand is why she will have an abortion, if as you say at that point her supplier will have no more to do with her. It makes no junky logic to do so. The bringing of a new life into a world might well bring her to her senses, but it probably won't. Are you sure she's not going through with the pregancy. I know I would in her position if the alternative were no drugs, at least when I was dancing that tune [yeah I'm a man so it's hypothetical, but you need to understand the strength of the desire to use]. No friendship, reason, sense common or otherwise will stand against the simple "I NEED MORE. NOW!!!" until she's had enough of it.

I wish I could be the harbinger of better news, but as I think I said already, it's something quintessentially beyond your power. Think how much mothers and fathers love their children and can't stop them doing this. It's the same sort of position you are in. You clearly love and care for this person and want the best for her. But maybe it is now more important to consider what is best for YOU. Do not put her above you. I know it's easy to invest a lot of emotional energy in the "loved other", as it were, but (and please realize this could be completely wrong) I sense you need to invest more emotional energy at home. I know unhitching from what is essentially now an unrequited love is about the (second) hardest thing I know, I feel sure if you can respect yourself, you'd just have to say that whatever was between you too is over. You should move on. Who knows maybe you'll find someone really nice who you'll be happier with. I get the feeling there's something a bit nasty about this woman sending you pictures (I'm assuming of her with him) and saying "don't call me" at the same time.

Not every junky who quits was a totally good soul to begin with. Maybe she's totally changed, but that above nastiness is something I'd never have done even when bang at the drugs. I never WANTED to hurt anyone, I simply HAD TO get my drugs, and that involved lying and steeling from people close to me at times, for which I am not proud. But I'm on day 15 away from this stuff now! Not a long time, but a journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step as the cliche goes.

Best wishes for a happy outcome for both of you

Dickon

[will7]

yea thats how i feel she hurt everyone that cared around her she has him now i was with her 2+ years she never did anything like this left me once and kissed an ex bf but came right back in the next month cuz she said it made her realize how much she cared for me but the pregnancy thing is she and him both want the abortion but she threatend him to keep the baby and go to her moms if he wasnt nice im assuming him being nice is that and giving her pills because i hear he still treats her bad but still gives her pills he is only doing it so she will get the abortion so if it comes past that time he will still get rid of her he cheats on her with a couple girls and i heard one of them said the same thing he said to a couple other people he doesnt even like her he just is scared she will have the baby and as soon as its gone she is too and along with that her only way of getting pills unless she becomes worse hopefully not and that is pretty low so maybe thats bottom its like he caught her yea and one of the pics was her and him doin something well her doin something to him but the look in her eyes was just empty but any man who cared for a woman would not send a picture of a girl he cared about he just is disrespecting her and downgrading her but she i beleive deals with it for the pills he is all she has left for now. she says she hates me and for me to leave her alone she doesnt care about me but who can beleive someone who is sick with addiction and needs help but doesnt see it its like she does those things to protect her supply but just looking at her u can see she isnt happy doing it more like forced to or she wants the pills so bad she will do it so she gets one i heard the withdraws are horrible and when u have to go through them u will do a lot to get the next pill and stay clean you seem like a very good person i have a kid staying with me 3 months sober actually the kid she is with ex best friend and he is trying to get his life back after the addiction and i just look at his situation not the same but close enough to hers and know there is a chance for her and stay clean i dont care what anybody says its very selfish thing it hurts you but everybody around you that loves you too u dont gain anything except fake friends and users themselves but u dont notice because you so blind it sucks i will love her through the good and bad i promised her that its weird i have never fely unconditional love like this for anyone in my life and it scares me that this is love but keeps me up thinking everyhting that is worse has to get better and when she does IF she does get clean she might be a better more appreciative person to the people who love her and most importantly HERSELF i just want to see her healthy and happy her smile again its so beautiful