Culture - Why should and shouldn't ecstasy be legalized/reclassified?

[Greenport]

In this thread please list why you believe ecstasy SHOULD or SHOULDN'T be looked at for reclassification.

The catch is for every reason you list YES or NO, you have to list an opposing reason. So every time you say for example, 'Yes, because it cures depression' you must also say for instance 'No, because it can destroy lives'

Reasons for both sides should be legitimate and non-biased, and where applicable research should be listed.

Finally, at the bottom post your opinion on whether it should be given another look or whether it should stay where it is.

Have fun debating

[chaos69]

i think out of the currently illegal (and legal) drugs MDMA is the main one that should be legal. most of the problems with mdma can be removed or at leasted reduced by making it legal and hence regulated. imagine if all pills were of a known exact dosage with anti oxidants already it each pill and if they came with recovery pills with 5-htp and more anti oxidants. so more PMA and god nos what else plus a significant reduction in neurotoxicity. MDMA is already accepted and used by a VERY wild range of people so keeping it illegal isn't going to stop the current problems with mdma. there is even studys shown that combining mdma with another drug (can't remember which one at the moment) reduces hyperthermia induced by mdma which could be another benefit of regulated pills.

now for the hard part. mdma being legal could lead to mass abuse which could results in problems for some people but really i don't think the responible people in the community should be punished because others can;t control themselves.

so thats one for legal mdma from me.

[Methadrone]

Swim thinks MDMA should be made legal or certainly available for Dr's and councellors to prescribe to pacients with marrital problems and other personal issues as MDMA can be a very useful tool and swim thinks alot of marriages could be saved by using this method.

As swie knows MDMA has been abused and now is alulterated with all kinds of things. If it were legal this would be eradicated and swim believes that no-one has died as a direct result of MDMA in small doses. Swim believes that people who've died 'due to ecstasy' have in fact died as a result of either other substances in the pill or by drinking too much water or too little water or simply OD'ing. So if the Government legalised it and made it clear what to and not to do whilst using MDMA all the problems associated with it would no longer exist.

Swim thinks it will in future be legal and will be looked back on like alcohol prohibition and laughed about it by our childrens children. The only thing that will stop it is if the government can't find a way of taxing it properly.

[chillinwill]

SWIM thinks that MDMA should be legal because if it were, not only would it take out all the adulterants out of the pills, it could be taxed by the government and therefore, the government could actually be making money off MDMA verse trying to get rid of it all which we all know will never happen. Also, MDMA is a very therupeautic tool and can be used to help so many people if used right to treat things such as PTSD, depression, talking about abuse that has happened to you, opening up, etc.

The only downside I can see to having MDMA legal is that many people could potentially abuse it and or become psychologically addicted to it; however, alcohol is legal and many people abuse that with a whole lot more tragic effects. The same could happen with MDMA if it was to be made legal, yet we will never know until we try it and see what happens or in the very least, make MDMA prescription only so it can be used for therupeautic reasons.

[Methadrone]

Whilst swim agrees with swichil swim doens't think that swia could get additcted to it long term, as swim has found although the potential for abuse would be high it would be highly unlikely swia's would become addicted either pysholically or pyshically as after a while of using and abusing MDMA swia would find the 'come-down' too hard to bear anymore and give it a rest. In swim's case and afoaf etc etc after doing MDMA week-in week-out for about a year it became too much to handle coming down. So swimmers effectivley knocked it on the head and only do it on very rare occasions.
Obviously swia's are all different but, swim doesn't know of any swia's who have continued their use after a certain period.

[vantranist]

Its exreamly pshocologicaly addictive.

[tryptamaster]

swim kinda feels mdma is like opiates. it can definatly have a clinical use but also a very non-clinical use. at least its legally would allow some to use un-adulterated mdma clinically but the main issue is would illicit use got up as a result? swim is itnerested in wat swiy.s think.

[jabbie]

You simply cant say ok, lets make it legal! after its been a class A for all these years! plus it would give the inpression that its 100% safe! i would say its 99.9% safe in my own eyes and from what i have read but! if its legalised and a few people do die from mdma directly then its a 'the goverment killed us'

However, i think class C! not legal!

jabbie added 6 Minutes and 27 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by vantranist

Its exreamly pshocologicaly addictive.

so is food, Lets make that class A

Reputation Comments on this post:

Obviously not a great understanding of the issue, pretty vacuous arguments imho

[vantranist]

Please don't try and compare eating food with MDMA.

MDMA is one of the most psychologicaly addicting drugs known 2 man.

Please know theres much more to MDMA than just what u see on wiki and erowid.

By ur logic cocaine should be legal... Its not a physical addiction its all in the head.

MDMA will never be legal.

Reputation Comments on this post:

PLEASE DON'T POST WITHOUT FACTS

[podge]

For

1. For use in various therapies i.e - medicinal use

2. To eliminate adulterants and contaminants

3. To allow more widespread and thorough research among the scientific community

4. To stop funding organized crime gangs

5. To keep it off the black market and away from children

6. To promote a free and advanced level of culture/society.

Against

1. Abuse potential ( although this damage can be made minimal or non existent with proper education, and with certain regulatory conditions )


2. To ensure the survival of failed policies which cause more harm then they prevent

3. To provide unnecessary employment in multiple market sectors

4. To maintain a widespread ignorance among the general public of certain topics through an endless and unrelenting propaganda campaign

5. To create the necessity for online communities to share real knowledge about drugs by gathering people and their experience from all over the planet

------------------------------------------------

Ok swim isnt entirely serious in his Against arguements, but lets face it, he's not entirely joking either, there just aint many legitimate reasons for prolonging this war on drugs fiasco.

[chillinwill]

Originally Posted by vantranist

Please don't try and compare eating food with MDMA.

MDMA is one of the most psychologicaly addicting drugs known 2 man.

Please know theres much more to MDMA than just what u see on wiki and erowid.

By ur logic cocaine should be legal... Its not a physical addiction its all in the head.

MDMA will never be legal.

Can you please provide a source that states MDMA is one of the most psychologically addicting drugs know to man?

[aerozeppelin123]

Originally Posted by jabbie

You simply cant say ok, lets make it legal! after its been a class A for all these years! plus it would give the inpression that its 100% safe! i would say its 99.9% safe in my own eyes and from what i have read but! if its legalised and a few people do die from mdma directly then its a 'the goverment killed us'

However, i think class C! not legal!

By the same logic, we would be saying 'the government killed them' whenever someone dies from alcohol, tobacco, or peanut allergies, since they failed to ban these products. Because these things are all legal, does that give the impression that they're 100% safe? No - we realise that they carry risks and try to reduce them through accurate information, amongst else. Why can't we apply the same principle to currently illegal drugs? In my opinion, the criminal justice system should simply not be used to send out messages about whether any given substance/product is 'safe' or not. This approach fails spectactularly and doesn't make sense ethically.

[PsychoActivist]

Swim Believes that it should be legal but a controlled substance and only used with permission/prescription in psychology/controlled environment. The reason for this is because though there are a lot of people who do their research and have a good understanding of the drug, swim believes there are just as many people who are naive and would use it irresponsibly and end up doing something stupid, thus giving MDXX a bad name. This is also what happened with LSD in the sixties. Though first synthesized by an incredibly intellegent man, who realized its potential and made many statements about it, instead of using it responsibly and as a guiding tool, many used it as "just another drug" and it received much negative publicity when people started freaking out. To this day, it still carries with it a negative sterotype in the eyes of the general public.

[doktor]

SWIM believes that we should look at other drugs in today's world that are legal in order to foresee what would happen. Take, for instance, tobacco (nicotine) a MILD stimulant. A shitload of the population smokes around the world (yes I know it's addictive). Next, take caffeine, by far the most used drug in the world and also a MILD stimulant. Then take MDMA, an INSANELY STRONG stimulant. You do the math. That's why they won't legalize it.

[FrogEye]

I'm undecided, but one thing i always feel when SWIM is on MDMA, is an overwhelming sense of empathy with everyone, its like I could never possibly do/say anything bad to anybody whatsoever and even though i have jokingly said something that could be taken negatively I immediately apologized to them and that. I think everyone else experiences the same kind of thing to maybe a lesser or greater extent. Now look at alcohol, and look at how many problems that causes - People get stabbed, shot, bashed, killed due to alcohol related violence. Alcohol, which is legal, just seems so much more of a problem than MDMA could ever be, yet it is legal. This is something i came to the realization of during SWIM's first time and every time SWIM has rolled since then i have the same realization.

[dyingtomorrow]

Because of all the drugs, it's probably the most harmless, and compared to alcohol, the fact that it is illegal is ridiculous. The amount of people who hurt themselves on it is like a millionth of that of alcohol, and the only reason it's not zero is because of the government's attitude that people who do drugs DESERVE to get hurt or die, instead of just telling them to drink some fucking water and be safe.

It's completely insane that the government would prefer people to become stupid and angry off their (legal) drugs, rather than peaceful, reflective and loving.

[thealmassi1]

Marijuana and shrooms have far stronger arguments to be legal than E.

I think it should be illegal because most of the pills have who-knows-what in them, and although MDMA is relatively safe, the byproducts and substitutes can be very harmful and frightening.

The government does not like substances that get people high (aside from DXM and a couple others), and the general North American attitude towards euphoric drugs are biased and are too much influenced by the government propaganda that bombards us throughout our primary and high school education (also government ads on TV).

[chillinwill]

Originally Posted by thealmassi1

Marijuana and shrooms have far stronger arguments to be legal than E.

I think it should be illegal because most of the pills have who-knows-what in them, and although MDMA is relatively safe, the byproducts and substitutes can be very harmful and frightening.

The government does not like substances that get people high (aside from DXM and a couple others), and the general North American attitude towards euphoric drugs are biased and are too much influenced by the government propaganda that bombards us throughout our primary and high school education (also government ads on TV).

If it were legal and regulated, there would be no adulterants in the MDMA since it takes out the whole drug dealer and black market aspect of it....just like when buying alcohol, the alcohol isn't cut with anything

[FrogEye]

The real reason is because the government doesnt want anybody being 'antisocial' and living a life that doesnt revolve around climbing up some corporate ladder. They are scared of a different way of living and a different way of life because it doesnt comply with the nonsense rules and goals that they live their lives to. But who are they to say they know how to live life?

[jabbie]

Originally Posted by aerozeppelin123

By the same logic, we would be saying 'the government killed them' whenever someone dies from alcohol, tobacco, or peanut allergies, since they failed to ban these products. Because these things are all legal, does that give the impression that they're 100% safe? No - we realise that they carry risks and try to reduce them through accurate information, amongst else. Why can't we apply the same principle to currently illegal drugs? In my opinion, the criminal justice system should simply not be used to send out messages about whether any given substance/product is 'safe' or not. This approach fails spectactularly and doesn't make sense ethically.

Thats all very well but for the goverment to turn around and make a Class A drug legal, it would HAVE to be 100% safe!

[FrogEye]

Originally Posted by jabbie

Thats all very well but for the goverment to turn around and make a Class A drug legal, it would HAVE to be 100% safe!

But why?

[dyingtomorrow]

Originally Posted by FrogEye

The real reason is because the government doesnt want anybody being 'antisocial' and living a life that doesnt revolve around climbing up some corporate ladder. They are scared of a different way of living and a different way of life because it doesnt comply with the nonsense rules and goals that they live their lives to. But who are they to say they know how to live life?

I think it's telling that the government illegalizes any substance that makes you feel good, empathetic, peaceful, or happy with life.

The only drug authorized by the American government is a beverage which: makes you stupid, angry, and physically dangerous to others; has an addiction rate on par with illegal drugs, but withdrawal symptoms that are far more likely to be fatal; a potential and allurement for excessive abuse and ultimately material-life destruction that is higher than most illegal drugs; and quickly causes extensive and often permanent biological damage to the user, far more so than pot, ecstasy, heroin, cocaine, and most other illegal drugs which are commonly depicted as more harmful than alcohol.

[Cryptic Concoction]

Originally Posted by vantranist

MDMA is one of the most psychologicaly addicting drugs known 2 man.

Please substantiate your claim.

Cryptic Concoction added 3 Minutes and 19 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by thealmassi1

I think it should be illegal because most of the pills have who-knows-what in them, and although MDMA is relatively safe, the byproducts and substitutes can be very harmful and frightening.

The impurity of pills sold as ecstasy is a perverse incentive of its prohibition...

[vantranist]

I don't have a source of MDMA being one of the most psychologicaly addictive drugs.

But i can guarantee you MDMA is extreamly addictive and habit forming.

Maybe not as much as coke or meth, or simular stimulants, but excluding cocaine/meth/speed can you really name a drug thats more addictive than MDMA? Its very addicted, take that for sure.

Thats just comes from understanding and personal expierence.

Anyways do YOU have a crediable source saying its not??

[riaahacker]

Reasons for:

Possible use in therapeutic situations
Life changing euphoria
Very low death count from mdma and mdma alone

Reasons against:

People not being informed and taking repeated doses causing abnormalities in serotonin system
Forced positive mood lift may take away from overall therapeutic value (has heard MBDB better for this reason, not sure where)
Depletion of serotonin levels could also take away from therapeutic value