Drug info - werdermannianus, the cactus with insane mescaline content?

[fnord]

What % of mescaline dose this one have? Anyone know what other active alkaloids are in it?

[Swimster]

Found this:

Werdermannianus are very hardy and easy to grow. Similar to Macrogonus, it contains less than 1% of 3, 4 dimethoxyphenylethylamine, less than 1% of 3-methoxytyramine and more than 50% of mescaline.

[fnord]

Can i get a source for that? 50% sounds insane! but hell if thats true grandmas making a running dash for her cacti grow room with he intent to commit felonius cactusphagy,shit 50% would mean she has a few pounds of mescaline :P

[=SKA=]

There's NO WAY!!! 50% of Mescaline? I can only imagine a Crystaline cactus with some green juicy flesh in between the crystals.

Find it hard to believe so I'm checking this out. Post your Source please.

UPDATE:
Shroomery has topics saying the same.
It confirms the more than 50% mescaline-content claim. Still I find this claim so incredible that I tend to say that these vendors just accepted the hoax for true and coppied it rather then that it's really true....
More than 50% Mescaline? If this turns out to be True I need to start growing a lifetime supply of these in a dry greenhouse. Jesus on a Bike!
OTHER UPDATE:
Okay on the Shroomery I now also found claims of More cacti than just werdermannianus to contain between 10% and 50% mescaline!!!!!
Check this out: xxxxxxxx Obviously I need to check some Cacti vendors!!! This makes Peyote, San pedro AND Peruvian Torch seem like REALLY weak stuff. Still having trouble believing this though. Aren't you sure someone made a VERY big mistake making us all happy about nothing? Seems too good to be true somehow don't you think? a plant that is MORE than 50% mescaline. It allmost sounds like....Plants that secrete 100 miligrams of Pure Mescaline crystals everyday. I'm having a hard time believing it, but if this is true Somebody is getting ALOT of Trichocereus Werdermannianus'es very soon.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	no sources!
	thanks,pleae add acepaable sources.
	You cant post other drug related forums (shroomery)

[fnord]

posting to outside forums is a no-no,please edit your post and relevant comments.

BTW thanks for the additional info!

[=SKA=]

Originally Posted by fnord

posting to outside forums is a no-no,please edit your post and relevant comments.

BTW thanks for the additional info!

Allright forum-link deleted... Affraid of Forum competition? :P

Anyway Swimster's source sais werdermannianus has a Mescaline content of 5-25mg/100g fresh.
SWIM calculated that and came to 2,5% of mescaline when assuming 100g of fresh cactus contains 25mg of mescaline. Even assuming 100g of fresh cactus contains 5mg of mescaline, that's still 0,5% and still makes werdermannianus 0,1% stronger than Peyote.
So either way that's still alot of Mescaline, but allready a Heck of alot less than the innitially claimed 50%

Guess we need more sources. And sources that are reliable and undisputable.

[Swimster]

Another quote:

T.werdermannianus No traditional use. Total alkaloids 10-50mg/100g fresh
Mescaline 5-25mg/100g fresh

[Swimster]

I'm not even voching for these sources. I simply googled. No big thing. Im guessing the "50%" is total bullshit though. I mean c'mon, it's a vendor, they always lie, its buisiness!

whait just a minute though. Perhaps they are claiming 50% out of total alkaloids is mesc, not out of cacti, hmm?

check it out: Total alkaloids: 10-50mg/100g fresh , Mescaline 5-25mg/100g fresh (half of total)

So, with 100grams fresh there is 10-50mg's of Alkaloids total, mixed. Half of which("5-25mg's") would be mescaline. But this is guess though.

[=SKA=]

Too bad your average google search doesn't lead to any respectable, trustworthy information sources regarding this cactus. Perhaps anySWIY has any plant- or sacred cacti book where there is information about this cactus regarding alkaloid profile and content.

If werdermannianus indeed contains between 0,5% and 2,5%, contains less of the undesired toxins than peyote has and contains no dangeriously toxins at all; Then it might just be THE perfect Mescaline cactus.

SWIM vaguely remembers having bought a large pot with serveral cacti for his father's birthday some years ago with a large Cactus very similair looking to werdermannianus.

[Panthers007]

Originally Posted by =SKA=

If werdermannianus indeed contains between 0,5% and 2,5%, contains less of the undesired toxins than peyote has and contains no dangeriously toxins at all; Then it might just be THE perfect Mescaline cactus.

"Undesired toxins"'?" What? Peyote contains many different substances - aside from mescaline - but nothing dangerous. Where did you get this information? Peyote has a unique blend of effects that many feel is far nicer than just pure mescaline.

[=SKA=]

Originally Posted by Panthers007

"Undesired toxins"'?" What? Peyote contains many different substances - aside from mescaline - but nothing dangerous. Where did you get this information? Peyote has a unique blend of effects that many feel is far nicer than just pure mescaline.

SWIM meant that werdermannianus may contain undesirable toxins. Not lethal, but substances that cause nausea and general physical comfort(body load). Peyote also contains a number of these alkaloids. SWIM called them toxins reasoning their effects to be slightly toxic.

SWIM has been wanting to buy one of the "psychedelic plant encyclopedias" and has in mind Christian Rätsch's Encyclopedy of Psycho Active plants as this is the most likely outcome of a google search for such a book. Are there better such books out there? Perhaps some of these contain alkaloid information on werdermannianus.

[Bajeda]

Anyone have a copy of Christian Rätsch’s Enzyklopädie der psychoaktiven Pflanzen (or the English version)? Would be interesting to see if this cactus is listed and what is written about it there.

[Alfa]

Originally Posted by Bajeda

Anyone have a copy of Christian Rätsch’s Enzyklopädie der psychoaktiven Pflanzen (or the English version)? Would be interesting to see if this cactus is listed and what is written about it there.

Trout's notes on San Pedro or Sacred Cacti would be more appropriate. Trout notes:
Trichocereus werdermannianus

287 grams of fresh plant contained 120mg of non-phenolic and 19mg phenolic alkaloids.
Mescaline was the major non-phenolic alkaloid. It is suggested that one would need between 1.2kg and 1.5kg of fresh Trichocereus werdermannianus to provide a 400mg mescaline dose.

[snapper]

Probab;y 50% of the total alkaloid content. Peruvianus and panachoui have a much higher percentage of mescaline relative to total alkaloid content, if SWIM recalls correctly.

[radiometer]

Just to add another bit of data to this discusion, I have in front of me a book, citing Ott (1993) and Trout (2001) as secondary sources, which gives the following data for this cactus:

per 100g dried material, 5-25mg+ mescaline, 1-10% 3,4-DMPEA and 1-10% 3-MeO-tyramine

[fnord]

Thanks everyone for the info! Im sending a message to M S Smith to see if i can get any more info on alkaloids and their levels and will keep the forum updated.

I dont seem to have trouts email,can someone pm me or him?

[fnord]

Originally Posted by fnord

Thanks everyone for the info! Im sending a message to M S Smith to see if i can get any more info on alkaloids and their levels and will keep the forum updated.

I dont seem to have trouts email,can someone pm me or him?

Feel free to share these comments in full at that other site of yours.

~Michael~

Part of the problem when considering T. werdermannianus from an alkaloid perspective is that you have to have a proper ID of the plant that was tested, something there is no way to be certain of without a herbarium specimen having been preserved, something which appears not to exist. We also would have to make sure that the plant we might now consider T. werdermannianus is the same plant as that considered in the alkaloid profile. T. werdermannianus is considered by E.F. Anderson to be the same species as T. terscheckii, which automatically causes problems as most would say that the plant we currently call T. werdermannianus is a form of T. tacaquirensis, a species also known as T. taquimbalensis. Now I would say T. werdermannianus is not T. terscheckii, and that it was a form of T. tac/taq, but the problem then arises about which form of T. tac/taq, as there are many different variations of the species in southern Bolivia. So in the end the alkaloid profile is worthless without an accurate representation of the plant which was tested, something which we don't appear to have. Hope this helps, but I fear it will only clarify the lack of clarity concerning this particular plant.