Tapered all the way down to 0.4mg (x2) tablets a day, Any advice would be helpful

[bupaddict]

Current Regime:
Subutex 0.4mg tablets (x2 tablet a day)
Swim has been on the subutex treatment for over 5 years

Hi,

I'm glad SWIM has found this forum, SWIM thought he was alone in all this. Bit of history about him, he was a Crack and Heroin addict for about 3-4 years then got professional help and went onto a Subutex treatment, he was started off near 22 mg a day, then over the years has managed to taper all the way down to under 1mg (2x 0.4mg tablets a day).

He was ready to quit Subutex 3 years ago and has attempted to jump from the tablets many times before but couldn't bear the withdrawal symptoms. SWIM attempts every year and always fails. then has to leave it for a while because of work commitments and university.

He has found as years go by the withdrawal pains seem to getting more intense at the current dosage. why is this???

Swim has decided December is the best time to try the jump again. but is scared, dreading the unbearable pains, sleepless nights, leg cramps :'(

Now after reading this forum, he has decided to try some Kratom and benadryl and try get some clonidine from his doctors to aid him in the detox. but doubts the doctor will prescribe him anything

swim is desperate to come clean, he knows once he is clean he will never go back to heroin or crack, he is over that.

Has anyone quit subutex after over 5 years on it? please share your experiences,

SWIM is so scared of going through the withdrawal

Reputation Comments on this post:

good use of forum search engine to find helpful info, good luck pal.

[fiveleggedrat]

Don't be scared, we are here to help you.

Continue to taper Swiy dosage. Try taking half a tablet instead, maybe 2/3's instead of the whole .4mg tablet. Take the least that keeps the WD's away.

Make sure to be eating properly and staying physically active while withdrawing, and take vitamins. It will help.

Swiy recommends Naproxen sodium as a non-addictive, non-recreational/abuseable NSAID for the pains. Try Valerian, passion flower, or diphenhydramine for insomnia. It can help.

Only use kratom to help with withdrawals; you don't want to become dependant on another drug. Kratom is much less addictive and such than Bupe, but any drug will just become another crutch.

Swiy has done very well tapering that far down. Swiy is almost there! Any questions, this forum will be glad to help you out.

Edit: Loperamide (Immodium) can help with the physical side effects of withdrawal. It's an opioid that does not cross the BBB, and is not recreational.

[Richard_smoker]

Wow... what an interesting post!

I know someone who has gone from 8 to 16mg/day all the way down to 0.35mg twice daily over the last 6 weeks.

i can tell you that getting to this point has been sheer hell. My friend could NOT have done this if his current job-situation hadn't been so FREE (unemployed), and thus, his life so barren of extraneous stressors...

Please, for the sake of my friend... how long have you been on the 0.4mg twice/day regiment?

God, my friend was hoping that jumping from 0.4 to zero would be relatively easy...especially compared to the last 6 weeks.

here's a situation where your input could be of substantial help to this community.
Please feel free to send me a p.m. if issues of privacy are a concern. -DICK

[bupaddict]

@Fiveleggedrat: Thanks for the recommendation, I'm gonna try get to 1x 0.4mg a day before making the jump,

Does Kratom help with the leg cramps?

Originally Posted by Richard_smoker

Please, for the sake of my friend... how long have you been on the 0.4mg twice/day regiment?

God, my friend was hoping that jumping from 0.4 to zero would be relatively easy...especially compared to the last 6 weeks.

Hi I'm glad to help how I can, I only wished I found this forum earlier, didn't think something like this existed.

Yes you are right, I remember how hard it was tapering down, it was brutal. I've been on the current 04.mg (x2 tablets a day) for about 3 years now, But I highly recommend jump asap when your friend can from the lowest dose possbile.

I say this because the withdrawals from my current dosage feels like I am jumping from 12mg, every year it feels like the withdrawals get stronger.

I regret not doing 3 years back when I first got on the 0.4mg x2 dosgage, I remember it not feeling as bad as is it is today as was much easier, infact it almost felt like nothing bar the leg cramps and slight insomnia. but I kept putting it off due to commitments and Uni.

bupaddict added 26 Minutes and 16 Seconds later...

I know most people on this board recommend Clonidine, But I really doubt my Doctor will prescribe me it . Ever since he found out I was an addict and on treatment, He doesn't like to prescribe me much.

Can you buy this in the UK over the counter?

[Richard_smoker]

one thing i was thinking is that you could check this thread out... my first post talks about going from 8 to 16mg/day down to much lower doses by dissolving the pills in water, then using a needless syringe to measure out your doses in a known quantity.

you just divide the #mg by the #cc's water that it's dissolved into. then, give yourself 1cc per dose, and I would actually recommend keeping chart of your progress. this helps a ton with motivation and keeping your focus. I would imagine that even after 3 years of being on 0.4 twice daily, you could rather easily drop to 0.3 twice/day...two to four weeks later, you could go down to 0.2 twice daily...all with minimal to zero pain and frustration.

like you said, it's not easy. i appreciate your reply to my question. i want to say my guy has been on 0.35mg twice/daily for the last 8 or so days. that was a jump down from 0.8mg twice/daily. He's going to keep this dose up for at least the next 4 days... then maybe he'll start stretching out the dose timing, but that technique has proven to be VERY hard to do.

keep us informed. -DICK

[Psych0naut]

First of all, congrats for having tapered all the way down to the dose you're at now. Second of all, keep hanging in there, you're almost finished tapering completely, and ready to stop. You've come a long way, you can do the last bit too! Unfortunenately, finally quitting altogether after being on the Bupe for such a long time, will cause extremely long withdrawls, of up to a few months. To avoid this as much as possible, try to switch over to a short acting opioid when finally quitting altogether, use the short acting opioid for a short period and then quit. This will cause the withdrawawls to be much shorter as well, and become much more manageable.

[Richard_smoker]

Originally Posted by Psych0naut

try to switch over to a short acting opioid when finally quitting altogether, use the short acting opioid for a short period and then quit. This will cause the withdrawawls to be much shorter as well, and become much more manageable.

you sure about this???

how long should one take the short-acting opiate??

from swim's experience, one will have become SO accustomed to 24/7 buprenorphine bound to the opiate receptors, that one will require short-acting opiates round-the-clock after getting 'off' the buprenorphine.

how, and in what setting do you recommend using the short-acting opiate?

thanks -DICK

EDIT: just to clarify--this was when swim was ADDICTED to bupe... and he hadn't tapered his dose at ALL. he just transferred back to pain pills for about a week, thinking he could kick the shorter opiates with ease. only thing is that he had no idea what kind of ugly withdrawals were waiting for him just on the other side of his last short-opiate pill. To say it was hellish would be a major understatement. He would have run 30 miles for a buprenorphine at that point.

[fiveleggedrat]

The shorter lasting opioid thing does make sense. The receptors will still be stimulated, but for a shorter time, so that the rebound will last less time.

[Richard_smoker]

so you would convert addiction completely over to the short-acting opiate?? and continue taking it for a few weeks (while the body gets over the buprenorphine?) i say this because the withdrawals from bupe can be several weeks long.

you would certainly think that the shorter withdrawal time (from short-acting opiates) would be better, but NOT what happened when swim converted to pain pills for a week, then tried to just stop. when i say it was hell, i mean it was NOTHING like any lortab withdrawal that swim has EVER experienced. it was just this heavy, sudden awareness that found himself mid-air without a parachute. God, it was such a horrific few hours that swim gets nervous thinking about it. He swears he was about to start having a seizure.

i assume that this was caused by being suddenly thrust into the 7th day of a full-scale, cold-turkey buprenorphine dose-arrest. whatever it was, it has given swim a total AVERSION to any short-acting opiate. Although swim must admit that he has never tried tramadol. all his friends scoffed at it, claiming that HE would get NOTHING from it. could a week of tramadol assist him in his final jump off bupe?

please, any suggestions are welcome. -DICK