Drug info - Butane/Propane effects

[salviablue]

I would like to find out about the effects of butane and/or propane on the mind and body. Accurate information on this subject seems quite sparse and difficult to find, especially regarding if "sensible" administration of the gas can or does cause the 'solvent' related deaths from 'gas huffing' directly.

SWIM wonders if there are any PWAY (people whom aren't you) out there that either have experience with, or information on, butane and/or propane and their effects.

SWIM has had a fair amount of experience with butane, propane and various mixes there of. S/he has experienced altered size perception and depth perception, strong aural hallucinations - especially a kind of 'nasty' repeating of certain types of sounds, a sort of metallic quality to everything, a kind of separation from everything where it feels as though one is stuck in an unembodied reality loop, and probably more that swim cant think of right now.
Adequate gas was discharged into a scrumpled up cloth, with the cloth then being placed onto the mouth and breathed through - in through the mouth and out through the nose - until the gas had evaporated (about 4-6 breaths). After every couple of breathes a lungful of air was taken i.e. the cloth was removed for the breath.
SWIM though it was important for air to be inhaled also.
SWIM actually found the effects not too dissimilar from that of N2O.

I do not recommend the inhalation of butane, propane, N2O, air or indeed any gas noxious or otherwise (although, neither do I recommend not breathing at all).

Concerning toxicity, I found this from the wiki:

Propane is nontoxic; however, when abused as an inhalant it poses a mild asphyxiation risk through oxygen deprivation. Commercial products contain hydrocarbons beyond propane, which may increase risk. Commonly stored under pressure at room temperature, propane and its mixtures expand and cool when released and may cause mild frostbite.

And this also from the wiki :

Inhalation of butane can cause euphoria, drowsiness, narcosis, asphyxia, cardiac arrhythmia and frostbite, which can result in death from asphyxiation and ventricular fibrillation. Butane is the most commonly misused volatile substance in the UK, and was the cause of 52% of "solvent related" deaths in 2000. By spraying butane directly into the throat, the jet of fluid can cool rapidly to –20 °C by expansion, causing prolonged laryngospasm, "Sudden sniffer's death" syndrome, first described by Bass in 1970,[3] is the most common single cause of "solvent related" death, resulting in 55% of known fatal cases.

Theres this about butane.
http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims...cal/pim945.htm

I didnt quite know where to stick this thread, but this seemed the most appropriate place to me(?).

[cra$h]

there's a section for drugs that don't have a section, but it's easily passed since it ain't got a pic. But swim's huffed regular lighter butane, just strait up the nose and only got a feeling of content and lightheadedness, a lot like a cigarette. But i was unaware the shit can make you trip.

[salviablue]

Direct inhalation from the valve of the discharging cannister is very dangerous, it can lead to immediate death, blah, blah, etc.!

SWIM reports butane certainly can make one 'trip' but it is not recommended at all because I am not sure if there is enough accurate in-depth information on it vs reported deaths and propaganda.

SWIM`s method involed 'ensuring' a supply of air mixing with the inhaled gas to help prevent asphyxiation. It has been suggested that the effects from butane (I shal here forth with call butane, propane or any mix thereof, butane, for simplicities sake, unless propane or a mix is specified) are caused by lack of oxygen to the brain and that a mix of butane and pure oxygen would diminish the effects. This would be interesting to find out about.

[Toki_Wartooth]

There was a very short, depraved summer of some punk kids youth where he huffed starter fluid on a regular basis.
Ethyl ether, along with the heptane, hexane, and all the other crap in the fluid, puts one in a trip unlike any other, especially when binged. He'd snap in and out of reality, getting lost in sounds (ridiculous auditory hallucinations), insane thoughts, and coming back 60 seconds later to resoak the rag and do it again. Gas was next (his kidneys still hate him 7 years later), than swim found a propane tank one night. He took it up to his room and proceeded to inhale out of the spout. It was a lot different than other inhalants, and he couldn't possibly explain the feeling of each, but they were all different (he NEVER liked duster though). He continued to binge for a while, like the dumb pathetic fiend he was. After a large hit, he suddenly faded out of existence. He moved his hand to look at it and it was fanned out in front of him. It stayed that way when he put his hand down and he heard himself talking in the hallway behind him...to himself, and could hear himself murmuring gibberish and drooling at the same time. There was an instant panic attack afterwards, and was and still is the most messed up he has ever been, and he's had his fair share of common and uncommon psychoactives.
It's dirty, and there is no difference between the intoxication and cell tissue damage.
I would never recommend huffing anything except an occasional Nitrous Oxide balloon. NO2 is a very simple dissociative gas and is pretty harmless as long as it is administered with oxygen (and in moderation of course). Take breaths between huffs or get a medical grade tank that is pre-mixed 50% with oxygen if possible.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thanks for your contribution

[fnord]

Butane feels like a more intense ether without the mellowness,or it could be better described as being very similar to tetrafluoroethane like gases, ~please head all warnings and be carefull of your health.




Waah WAHhhh wAHHH wahhhh WAHHHHH wahh waHHH WAHHH...

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Thanks for your contribution
	Perfect description of how the sounds are like when on butane.

[salviablue]

I found this today amidst re-installing everything (my HD crashed good and proper, courtesy of a combined effort from my wife and one of our cats, last week!)
http://www.wickedroots.com/Vaporizer...utane-Gas.html

It lists nitrous amongst the gases which are toxic to cells, specifically the .
What it does mainly note though however, is about the effects of chronic/repeated use/abuse . It seems to be a bit vague or blanketing in parts, as to the specificity of the gases vs effects.

The article links those who die from pulmonary effects with being found with bags over their heads.

It seems SSD comes from the combination of hypoxia and the pulmonary effect (also possibly from having a bag over ones head - although one cant really see as to how that can be related).

There isnt really much in the way of explanation into the psychedelic effects though other than that caused from cell/nerve/brain damage, of butane, but then wouldnt this damage also apply to nitrous (which is demyelinating) inhalation(?), and wouldnt the effects (or some atleast) be attributed to that damage also?

Did/does any swiy actually know of people that have died or been mentally damaged through inhalation, what gas and how?


Thanks to everyone for the contributions by the way.

[Toki_Wartooth]

Repeated nitrous (and it is assumed any inhalant) use has been liked to vitamin B12 deficiencies, causing damage to nerve endings. If one must huff, at least take B supplements.
Swims only heard stories of people dying from inhalants, usually from a mask or bag like swiy mentioned. Swim read in the paper of a kid dying from inhaling helium. Not sure how much, but damn.
But if anyone is worried about nerve damage, one should not be interested in huffing anything.

Cheers

[salviablue]

Originally Posted by Toki_Wartooth

But if anyone is worried about nerve damage, one should not be interested in huffing anything.

Cheers

Very true, but then again I think that applies not just to `huffing`. I think if anyone is worried about unnecassarily self induced cell/nerve damage then most of the activities discussed in this forum should not interest either!

Vitamin B12 would be a good idea however.

I think though once one starts to look for this information, one realises just how little accurate, unbiased and relevant information there is on this kind of thing (esp. info on any specific gas/inhalant)

Gas, solvent, glue and volatile liquids inhaling has very bad press, what with it being mainly kids that do it and with out thought or research and thus turning what may be otherwise a dangerous adventure at the best of times, into a near guaranteed fatal appointment with `The Maker` (or insert personal view/religion/belief terminology here).

One must wonder, considering the lack of easily accessible, accurate and non biased information on inhalants and their effects and use/abuse whether these gases arent just `bagged together` for ease of description and propaganda and that since there are a fair amount of associated media covered deaths, surely a blanket scare tactic on all inhalants would suffice?

There are no figures either that state likelyhood of SSD from say just inhaling butane, discharged into a cloth through the mouth, ensuring a supply of oxygen and that "super saturation" or chronic abuse did not occur; or from anything of the sort. I can find pleny on general effects and dangers for a blanket of inhalants, also data on deaths where inhalants were involved, usually death occurring from direct discharge of the gas from the cannister into the mouth, or from the placing of a bag over the head.
There isnt much information on causes of death or permenant damage from `sensible use`* of butane, or indeed many gasses of `abuse`.

Most articles I have read concerning death and/or nerve/organ damage from inhalants (again blanketed but I am blanketing them too, but in this context I have to, because so many references do, and I am ettempting to address the state of this blanketing so as to hopefully have them properly seperated and investigated and/or described in detail as their seperate entities) use data from/for chronic intoxication through both repetition or herculean dosing, from reported deaths due to restricted/stopped air intake or from windpipe freezing/rupturing from direct oral discharge direct from the cannister.
Any one could report on pretty much ANY compound and come out with a condeming report based on repeated chronic dosing, clearly stupid administration methods (fancy jacking up alcohol anyone, or how about a concentrated tobacco drink, or maybe even smoking a chocolate bar?).
Some may argue that these gasses are not intended for human consumption (except for may be N2O) but that is a mute point considering the nature of these foums (what exactly is intended for human consumption, what does that exactly mean, (think about it?).

I have also noticed that certain inhalants (I dont actually like using it as a blanketing term, but its just easier, like calling certain psychedelics hallucinogens, when they are not at all, and calling certain compounds deliriants when infact they are hallucinognens. Lets just say I think it a bit of a mis-nomer) tend not to included in the blanket, like nitrites, but induce not too dissimilar effects from included ones. CO2 is another, although less widely known, carbogen (air/CO2) has been used in similar aspects to entonox (air/N2O) and is often considered better, but N20 is described as being quite harmful to cells, even suggestions of olney`s lesions, yet CO2 has been completely missed out.

I think something of what I am trying to find out is whether inhalants (in this instance, particularly butane) really are the pharmacological death wish they are perceived or whether its through lack of research/accurate knowledge or because of the `branding` and other contents of the blanket by propgagandists. Like how untaxed/uninsured driver equals unpatriotic scrounger causing excessive danger to other roads users and is probably a drug dealer or a gangster never mind that person may not be able to afford the tax/insurance that month/year but has never had a crash or been involve in anything (much) illegal - infact all gangsters or dealer i have known/met always had tax/insurance etc! - or that even any one messing with opiates (other than docs or script) equalls dirty needles (infact many people hear `drugs` and still think `dirty needle using junky that hangs around schools, hooking young children, stealing whatever they can and dying from aids) etc.

Make sense?

[Burnt]

Listen inhaling butane is really stupid. Butane one does not exist as a liquid at normal pressure its under high pressure and very very cold when it comes out. If you inhale too much of too fast it could cause things to freeze inside your airpasseges doing serious harm. Not to mention the well known dangers in inhaling petroluem based solvent.

Most solvents come with warning labels for a reason. SWIM works with heavy duty solvents on a regular basis there toxicity has been studied because people who work around them have limits to how much they should be exposed too. Inhaling this shit deliberately is one of the dumbest ideas I have ever heard.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thanks for the input

[salviablue]

Burn said:t

Listen inhaling butane is really stupid.

So are most of the `intoxication methods` discussed on these forums, but even though I may come to agree, given time and evidence/documentation, I do neither agree nor disagree with the above quote a this time - although I would strongly dissuade any one from inhaling anything they didn't have to.


The concerns regarding `inhalants` in the work place and their dangers usually refers to, or is studied based upon, effects from differing ppm in the work area, prolonged exposure to varying amounts, temporary vs permanent, storage/waste aspects. Although someone somwhere fully intended these test to and researches to protect human life, really they are so companies dont get sued for contamination, endangering employees, local residents or clients/end users and so they can assess what the minimum expenditure in safe guarding they can get away with is in case of possible legal/court action. Asset/expenditure protection ALWAYS far outway any desicions regarding health protection.

I am NOT tyring to promote or even justify `inhalant` use/abuse but am trying to build an accurate picture into specific effects, dose and administration and general unbiased information on consumation.

People usually know that doing something stupid/dumb/damaging/dangerous that isnt necassery is just that, stupid/dumb/damaging/dangerous, but they still do it. Not having accurate and unbiased information available can only make things worse, more stupid/dumb/damaging/dangerous.

I am looking into the `in the work place` stuff on butane etc at the moment (dont know why I didnt think of it before!?) and will be able to comment on it more usefully soon.

SWIM thinks that butane and the other inhalants should have their own specific entries on this site as butane is definately psychoactive and very psychedelic. Their exact, as presently known, effects, methods of action, methods of administration, saftey issues, experiences, etc., substantiated (as best as) and clearly documented would be of great interest. It may also help on the 'help prevent dumb ideas' front.

[cuddlesthefox]

When swim was much much younger he indulged in such things as butane, petrol lighter fuel, mr sheen (furniture polish) varnish, glue of all kinds and basically anything that could be sniffed.
Swim has to say Butane was the scariest of all, it didn't give swim much either compared with lighter fuel and glue.
Swim honestly thought his end had come whilst sniffing Butane. Swims friends at the time saw the results it had on swim and decided to just say no as swim didn't look to healthy either as he went a bit blue-ish apparently. This was, however, straight from the can.

[Burnt]

I see what you mean its just another method of intoxication just be careful because it is dangerous and damaging.

[Stephenwolf]

Originally Posted by Burnt

I see what you mean its just another method of intoxication just be careful because it is dangerous and damaging.

the whole point of this thread is finding out is it really dangerous, in what ways? Has any proof been given that careful moderate use allowing adequate oxygen flow been shown to be dangerous? I think the whole thing is a brilliant way to go, if a person wants to huff shouldn't they know how it affects them other than a simple " Its bad" Whats the proper method to inject heroin? ITS Dangerous don't do it... FINE i'll just guess how to do it safely....dunno, bit tired this might make less sense to me tomorrow...

[Panthers007]

True - but it also proves at least one thing already: Even advocates of drug use look down on "huffing" and sniffing such as butane, propane, or gasoline (petrol) for that matter.

[doggy_hat]

So do gaseous hydrocarbon fuels actually have a psychoactive effect themselves? I always thought that most inhalants, including propane/butane, didn't get a person high but the lack of oxygen did.

Also, to anyone that is going to huff, please use an indirect method(like a rag), propane's boiling point is -42C, so that shit has got to be really cold and damaging if SWIY inhales directly from the nozzle.

[cra$h]

if you wanna know how psycho active huffing can be, youtube fear and loathing in las vegas-ether. Johnny Depp explains it pretty well. But this is pure ethyl ether, not just starting fluid.

[doggy_hat]

I'm aware that huffing has potent effects. But what I'm curious about is the pharmacology behind huffing.

[salviablue]

Those last two posts from Stephenwolf and Panthers007 are spot on. And thankyou all for the contributions and discussion.

I recently found a news paper article where a kid died from over-spraying deoderant in an enclosed space. The article suggested that there was no reason to suspect abuse and that the kid was overly worried about his newly acquired "manly odors". But it also insinuated that the cause of death was butane/propane OD as opposed to oxygen deprivation.
I wanted to post the actual article but I can't find it now, I shall look on-line to see if I can find it.

Doggy_hat, me too!

[davestate]

Take a look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_narcosis

It seems the mechanism by which inert gases effect conciousness isn't totally understood

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thanks for the link

[salviablue]

Thanks, very interesting. That has actually provided me with some good info for something else aswell. Cheers.

[Lady Codone]

SWIM knew a mother who let her little boy (about 4 years old at the time) sit atop the propane tank on their farm and huff until he fell off. She definitely gets the Worst Mother of All Time Award.

Fucking disgusting.

[ynef]

My friend used to huff butane with another friend and had a lot of fun until he read stuff about how dangerous it can be... after that my friend can't just chill out when on butane and he gets panic attacks and feelings of death. He doesn't really want to do it anymore because every time he does it he gets terrified and feels like it's really THE END. And of course he takes a lungful of air after butane but that doesn't really help him much with his panic attacks.

Sorry for posting to such an old thread.

[salviablue]

The truth is, we don't actually know how dangerous it actually is. It kind of stands to reason that the ingestion of anything that doesn't help keep us physically alive is or can be damaging /dangerous. But there are those whom would most vehemently disagree.

It is extremely difficult to research or even study as the best and easiest means are often denied all but the few, like proper non-bias or agenda driven scientific research, or shared information due to propaganda preconceptions and the flood of misleading/misunderstood/fictitious accounts like news or internet stories.

This is a vast 'undiscovered world' that needs proper exploration to the best standards this community has to offer. There does not seem to be any other interest anywhere else that doesn't just bend to the whims of societal or political pressure . The reasons as to why butane is poorly understood could be investigated and may lead to many interesting 'revelations', much like the hemp-dupont story or early christianity-hallucinogenics theories.
But i feel this would lead to 'unproveable' conspiracy theories and the like and detract from the point in this exercise (not to mention credability) - to discover actual facts governing butane use/abuse and effects and harm. And possibly help lead the way for the understanding of other 'blanketed' substances.

(....and breath!)

please do not apologise for 'posting in such an old thread', it may be old, but very much alive and open. Swim has not had much opportunity to 'tend' the thread/research/study but has promised to very soon.

[coelho]

Well... swim cant deny that his craziest and deepest experiences were on butane after smoking weed... he learned a LOT of things that he is sure he would never have figured out by himself, and that only strong psychedelics (like LSD, etc) would teach him... in fact, swim can understand many of the things people says about the efects of the stronger psychedelics even without having experienced them, due his own experiences with butane+weed.
When swim was young (and stupider) he used to inhale it frequently... during his "worst" times, he did it like every weekend during a couple of months... after it the use decreased to once a month, then once a couple of months, etc... swim noticed a sharp decrease in his mental skills (like mental calculations for example) after the first month or so... and swim thinks he never recovered his skills completly... even if he didnt inhaled it very often... so he is pretty convinced it is very harmful to the brain even in low amounts.

Also, the last times he inhaled it he felt like a pain in his heart... and after it he did read that butane could actually interfere with the hearts functioning, so he decided to stop it. Swim thinks its effects, no matter how trippy they be, are not worth the harms it causes and the danger it poses... swim enjoyed his experiences, but would not do it again.

[lucian]

What about dependancy; I know that there are people that go through a couple of cans a day - I'm assuming that's not out of choice?

I used to have an article in a magazine where a regular user recounts his experience. He was taking it to work and doing it in the toilets. I know it's not experiences the OP is after but if people are interested I can see if I can find it?