Addiction - heroin hurts

[Herbal Remedy]

a few months ago swim tried heroin and didnt look back. Didnt look infront of him either. Swim used moderate doses, but after daily (irresponsible) use his tolerance went up the warning signs piled up. Yesterday was his first taste of withdrawl. He hadn't used in less than 24 (not that long at all) hours but this time he felt flew like symptoms, anxiety, depression, racing thoughts, and his entire body seemed to be panic-y. Swim eventually got a bit and after just a snort of a small dose, everything went away. Swim realized he is looking at a mountain of work to get healthy. After experiencing withdrawal he knows he needs to get clean, he is too irresponsible to not get hooked on a drug as serious as herion, and in the end heroin hurts. Swim has a few doses and plans on picking up a few more, as well as 45 - 0.5 clonzapins, a bunch of alcohol and some weed, and is planning on planning a method of tapering down. He doesnt think he can handle cold turkey, its just too much and he wont be function-able and he will have to let other people know of his situation. For the next few days he will use a small dose in the morning and a small dose in the evening. After 5 or 6 days he is gonna go down to one small dose in the daytime, and will use the other drugs to help him out. Eventually he will see it out day to day and with the help of exercise, a regular schedule, and idea of getting completely clean, he will find himself miles away from this mess.


swim know its a lot of work, it wont be easy, and its gonna take some time. But what do you guys think, can swim do it? whats a good expectation (3-4 weeks). any tips or insight is greatly appreciated

[jon-q]

Swim can't give detailed help at presant,work calls but if swiy can give details of method of use,amount used how long after last dose do withdrawls start ie runny eyes,yawning cold/hot sweats,how long as swiy been doing daily usage and finaly is another weaker opiate available!swim will get back to swiy later on...

[Herbal Remedy]

swim used daily for a month and a half, at first he was snorting small amounts (one single dose, a line about an inch long) only at night. Once he got his hands on some quantity, things got out of hand. a gram would be gone in 2-3 days. He tried the needle a few times, and things got scary. His tolerance went up to the point of using 3x the normal dose (sometimes more depending on how much he had at his disposal).

Withdrawls seem to kick in around 24 hours after the last dose (scares the shit outta swim). He really hates the shivers/sweats, as well as the anxiety and body stress. He really wishes he had been smarter about using such a serious substance. SWim has hope, as long as the withdrawls get easier, not worse, he knows he can do it.

Sometimes percs and oxys come swims way, but availabilty is always random (whereas he can get H any day of the week). Swim has legitamit pain issues after a car accident a few years ago so he was thinking about going back to pain management. He just doesnt want them to know that they are treating a drug abuser. His arms are all cleared up, so he thinks he has a shot at getting perscribed a weaker drug.

swim wants to get through this and knows he can, he has the support of the community and a good girlfriend who understands and wants to help. Thanks for reading and thanks for any help

[On The Nod]

SWIMs gotta be quick as v. sleepy, though swiys situation is tricky. The method of tapering down using smack is very slippery, not many people make it, usually results in a failed attempt after failed attempt. SWIMS advice would be probably best to speak to a doctor and get professional help. SWIY can go on an opiate substitue like subutex for a while before doing a medically monitered detox with help from local drugs team.
Otherwise theres places that offer inhouse detoxes which knock you out for a week and then you wake up clean, however there expensive, naltrexone is then given for a while.
The main message is that its relatively easy to get off heroin in the first place, however staying off it long term is another kettle of fish. SWIM would suggest NA meetings to build up support because the first year of being clean can be a hard slog and if not carefull relapse will come around all too easily..
Maybe think of going to rehab!?

[jon-q]

Originally Posted by Herbal Remedy

a few months ago swim tried heroin and didnt look back. Didnt look infront of him either. Swim used moderate doses, but after daily (irresponsible) use his tolerance went up the warning signs piled up. Yesterday was his first taste of withdrawl. He hadn't used in less than 24 (not that long at all) hours but this time he felt flew like symptoms, anxiety, depression, racing thoughts, and his entire body seemed to be panic-y. Swim eventually got a bit and after just a snort of a small dose, everything went away. Swim realized he is looking at a mountain of work to get healthy. After experiencing withdrawal he knows he needs to get clean, he is too irresponsible to not get hooked on a drug as serious as herion, and in the end heroin hurts. Swim has a few doses and plans on picking up a few more, as well as 45 - 0.5 clonzapins, a bunch of alcohol and some weed, and is planning on planning a method of tapering down. He doesnt think he can handle cold turkey, its just too much and he wont be function-able and he will have to let other people know of his situation. For the next few days he will use a small dose in the morning and a small dose in the evening. After 5 or 6 days he is gonna go down to one small dose in the daytime, and will use the other drugs to help him out. Eventually he will see it out day to day and with the help of exercise, a regular schedule, and idea of getting completely clean, he will find himself miles away from this mess.


swim know its a lot of work, it wont be easy, and its gonna take some time. But what do you guys think, can swim do it? whats a good expectation (3-4 weeks). any tips or insight is greatly appreciated

Ok swim isn't no DR,but i will give you my thoughts on this matter for what it's worth.
Firstly the good news for swiy~In the great scheme of things your situation isn't as bad as you may think!(for swiy i know it's the end of the fucking world) Let me elaborate a little,swiy has only been using for a relativly short amount of time and the amount of Heroin taken thankfully hasn't gotten to large!
By this swim is trying to explain that although withdrawls will clearly be experienced your muscle dependancy,noradrenaline production and general physical addiction shouldn't be~1)To great and 2)wont take to long to repair itself!
The fact that swiy can now go for 24hrs before withdrawls start to begin,gives me much hope for swiy (swim at 24hrs would be in a full blown hardcore rattle)
Now the cure? If swiy is seriously wanting to get clean then i think this can fairly easily be done(if you really,really want to,and want to for yourself) reducing on illicit drugs esp heroin takes great willpower,also as strength is unknown from batch to batch this only adds problems to the self reducing approach.benzos can be of help especially to aid sleep but care needs to be taken when mixing with alcohol and weed,personaly i wouldn't use the last two...but if it helps swiy???????
Enough of the bullshit this is how swim would detox given the above infomation.Buy in 1-1.25g of Heroin for the detox,split this in to 3 finely chopped piles,1st pile divide into 4 snortable doses.2nd pile cut(2-1)with something thats easy on the nose(glucose for example) split this into 8 doses.3rd pile cut (2-1) but use sodium bicarbonate,split this into 6 doses and put these into gel caps or similar(for ingestion)
Plan to do the detox so that on the 3rd day if poss you could get away for a few days(anywhere out of swiys normal suroundings~and plan for nothing for the following week!
Wait as long as poss when withdrawls start to kick in before using 1st snortable dose,only snort enough to relieve the worst of the symptoms"were not looking for highs here!"try to leave the length of time longer every time beetween each dose,remember withdrawls will peak at 36-40hrs.once you have got to finishing the 2nd pile (day 5-6) switch to the gel caps take 1 ea morning at this point your benzo's may be needed at night to help with sleep,but don't expect 6-7hrs peacefull rest.Also swiy dosen't need to stick to the above to the letter maybe on day 2 swiy may feel he can switch to the 2nd(cut pile) just make sure that each dose is LESS than the previous dose and remember at 30-40hrs into the withdrawls they will have peaked.expext to feel pretty shity for at least a week and two weeks before "normal feelings thoughts emotions "START" to level out.
Swiy should try to drink lots of water especialy when you get to the ingestion part,swim drinks hot water 1-2 pts a day this helps flush the toxins out of ones system and also helps hydration.
Look up all the other tips to help with withdrawls (except other opiates/opiods) and i can not stress the benefits of a hot bath-get some oils/scents...
All the above info asumes no other opiates/opiods are available for swiy to use,That swiy does not want/can not seek medical advice..
Very important swiy Herbalremedy "on the nod is very correct to point out that getting clean is only the start of your journey....good luck pal and keep swimmers updated...
Laters...........Q

Reputation Comments on this post:

great idea!

[Solinari]

For someone that has not been using drugs for a long period of time, like years, then the best thing to do is definitely go for a detox and then get on with their life.

Months of use, in my opinion, is not enough to consider going on to methadone or buprenorphine maintenance, i think it's a bad idea and will probably end up driving someone further in to addiction. For a maintenance program i think some one has to be using for years with multiple attempts to become clean.

For most people that have been addicted to drugs for some time, i believe to stop using drugs and become clean will require 100% determination. A person should know in them self if they have that determination and if they do then a detox would be the way to go. In regards to detoxing, i agree with On the Nod about tapering using the drug one is trying to get away from, a large amount of the drug purchased or saved in preparation for a self administered detox could prove to be a huge temptation.

If someone knows that they don't have the determination and definitely isn't lying to them self or yielding to pressure from family or friends then the maintenance route would probably be best. For this using the drug that is causing the problem is obviously not an option and professional help from a doctor is going to be required, methadone or buprenorphine will be the choice. The idea of maintenance is to get used to life without using illicit drugs and attain some sort of normality and stability, once that has been achieved it should be easier to begin to go drug free. Of course this is really for people who are living a chaotic life for a fairly long period of time and for people that have tried to get off drugs many times.

Anyone that has been using for a matter of months should just get clean and forget about drugs or at least use in moderation and get on with their life. I would also add that for anyone with a drug problem, going for a detox is not always a waste of time even if there isn't 100% determination (which shouldn't be an excuse), a detox might work and there is nothing to lose by trying.

[dyingtomorrow]

SWIM has been using for well over 2 years, 1 year IVing. SWIM has been thru bad withdrawals at least 100 times, mostly in the last 6 months (after losing everything). They say pain makes you stronger, but some things just make you weaker and weaker. SWIM is on suboxone now and hates it and has horrible cravings. SWIM was 2 semesters away from graduating from law school when he got addicted, and now has nothing, no family, is $200,000 in the hole, and would be homeless if he wasn't so good looking and had a girl to stay with ( ). If you got something to live for, then I guess it's worth the bother of trying to clean up. But you have to realize the whole rest of your life is going to be a horrible struggle with H demons (or angels I'd consider them) screaming in your ear to get some H, and it will never let up. It's like being permanently disabled. SWIM knows it will never be better, and is saving up for an OD dose and some xanax to end this bullshit.

[Solinari]

The whole rest of your life does not have to be a struggle, in fact a lot of people simply move on with their life and forget about addiction and some even use occasionally without spiralling back in to addiction. As my mother says, you don't know what's around the corner or what might happen in the near future, ending the bullshit is a permanent solution to a temporary problem as they say.

[dyingtomorrow]

I've been running around on the street for a long time. I know a lot of 50 year olds who have been addicted to H or methadone for most of their life. Quit a couple times but never for long, dope sick all the time, and have just led a fundamentally shitty life. Never even heard of someone who went completely clean. The only reason there would be to hang around for is a day maybe when they start selling heroin like beer - but we'll probably all be dead by the time that happens.

I guess if you like going back to working 9-5 until you die then it's worth quitting, but if that's true, you probably wouldn't have started on drugs in the first place.

[Solinari]

Well i am not going to try and convince you your life is going to get better or that you are a unique and special flower or any bullshit like that. All i can say is that a lot of people get clean and lead relatively normal lives, and for the people that don't and have addiction problems for decades then it's usually because they are in and out of jail. From what i have seen of American jails all i can say is fuck that and i am glad i live in the UK, i really don't think i could handle an American jail with its race based factions, maybe that's not the norm in American jails, maybe it is, i can only go on what i have seen on TV, but in any case i am not surprised how people end up after going through that "justice" system.

Anyway, i can't believe you don't know a single person that has got clean and is staying away from heroin, i know a few people that have but only 1 that i know of is doing the 9 - 5 thing, i suppose that is because during his heroin addiction he always worked and that kept the work ethic going. The others that i know stay away from heroin are probably still on methadone or i just haven't seen in ages

My fiend has been addicted to heroin for nearly seven years and it's only in the last year and a half - 2 years that he has become relatively stable on methadone. He doesn't have a job and spends a lot of time in his room doing very little but hopefully that will change soon. He has zero motivation to do anything but he knows this is not going to last forever. My fiend doesn't mind admitting he has a poor work ethic and definitely would rather sit on benefits than do something he dreads waking up to.

If there are problems with being on buprenorphine (Suboxone) then all i can suggest is try and get on methadone and go down the maintenance route. That said, i don't know how Suboxone is dispensed, whether it's a daily supervised thing or a weekly supply etc, if it is a daily thing then there shouldn't be a problem getting methadone instead. But if there is a weekly supply of Suboxone then i can definitely understand favouring that over daily methadone trips which thankfully my fiend doesn't have to do. Never the less, i can definitely say that my fiend would much rather go for daily methadone trips to the chemist than go thieving for money then hunting for a bag.

[chillinwill]

SWIM is one of those ppl that have managed now to stay clean from heroin (IV'ing it) for over 6 months now. He has been an IV user for around 5 years now but it can be done. Don't ever give up hope cuz you don't know what life can really be like without using. If you need any help or just wanna talk, I'm here and you can PM me or just respond back on this thread

[dyingtomorrow]

Okay, let me put it this way. SWIM started off with a bunch of money, said fuck it, 9-5 (more like 8-7 now a days) life sucks, then quit law school and had about a year and a half where he didn't work and just partied all day every day and night. Doing $400 worth of H a day, hanging out with friends, going to to clubs, doing ecstasy and being in total bliss listening to fucking awesome house and drum and bass all the time. Now SWIM is $200k in debt, teetering on homelessness, wracked with horrible cravings. Lets say SWIM becomes "normal" - is he really ever going to feel that good again? If you went to heaven and got dropped back down to earth, it would feel like hell, and the thought of that release from hell would sound like heaven to you.

I'm not trying to be depressing, but you gotta admit this is logical.

[Herbal Remedy]

swim has hope. The last week has been rough as swim's girlfriend (who doesnt know of his situation) broke up with him (really bad timing) and his chronic pain has been red hot. Swim broke down 3 days ago and got nice n high, but now he has to start over. He is at a decission. What would be best for acheiving his goal?

A) 15 5 mg percs + 2 40 mg oxys, all spread out over a week or so

or

B) a gram of smack spread out over a week (possibly tempting, but so are pain killers)

swim has the choice right now and isnt sure which would be more effective. He isnt too worried about getting sick as he is gonna wait till the last possible moment to take his drugs (full blown withdrawl if neccesary so he can just get a lil relief and bring down his tolerance. Then next week he can take a look at his progress and go from there.

Thanks so much for all the replies, swims been reading them and cant thank you guys enough for the support

Also, swim isnt too far into addiction, he just wants to turn it around. Swim has a great life no matter how hard parts of it have been, and swim looks foward to a great future. Getting off smack is today, and the near future. Swim knows there are bigger and better things out there for him than the ups and downs of drugs.

[dyingtomorrow]

I'll tell you the best way to quit. I've tried everything, and this method is completely painless, you can function at like 95%, go to work, etc. Except for the first day when you transition that is.

Get like 15 8mg suboxones. Wait till you are in withdrawal, then take the first.

Day 1: 8 mg (you will feel crappy, but this is the worst of it)
Day 2: 8 mg
Day 3: 8 mg (you will feel perfect by now)
Day 4: 6 mg
Day 5: 6 mg
Day 6: 4 mg
Day 7: 4 mg
Day 8: 2 mg
Day 9: 2 mg

The last bit you have to decide for yourself and see how you feel. Lots of people stay on suboxone/subutex for months or years - this is BAD. If you get too used to it, going from even .25 mg to 0 will give you like a week worth of bad withdrawals. The trick is to do it fast and there is no pain. A friend of mine who was a IV heroin addict did it in 10 days, with no pain and able to work. I am almost done and feel perfectly fine, except for the hellish heroin cravings.

The only other catch, you won't be able to sleep for the first couple days, and you will have a hard time after that, but not impossible. If you can get some xanax/valium you will have no problems at all.

Hope that helps.

dyingtomorrow added 4 Minutes and 2 Seconds later...

Oh yea, and you will probably be depressed as fuck, thinking about a life without heroin. My only purpose for trying to quit is so I can OD. I tried a week ago to kill myself by ODing in 1 shot 5X the amount I do in an entire day. Woke up a long ass time later, tried again with 7X and still didn't fucking die. Last night I read that long term heroin addicts can take doses up to 9X what their usual is, which would have been handy info. Now I gotta fucking save up again which is going to take a couple weeks, although this time I'm going to get a shit load of xanaxes and a plastic bag to put on my head.

Well, good luck to you. Hope you have a better reason to quit... LOL

[Solinari]

Internet suicide threats, meh, what you gonna do? If someone is determined to do it then a post on a forum from perfect strangers isn't going to change anything.

[dyingtomorrow]

LOL I think you misunderstand me - after this shit it's a joyous thing, like the time SWIM got a $21,000 check and blew it all on H in a month. If you recall the topic you're posting under, I don't think my comments are too out of place.

[Herbal Remedy]

damn dude i dont know what to say. Swim appreciates the tip but your post legitimitly scares him. Swim hopes you can turn it around DT and make it out, thanks for the support, everyone.

oh yea, so about swims question

"should he go with the painkillers and taper down or stick with a gram of smack and taper down?"

thanks again

[jon-q]

Originally Posted by dyingtomorrow

LOL I think you misunderstand me - after this shit it's a joyous thing, like the time SWIM got a $21,000 check and blew it all on H in a month. If you recall the topic you're posting under, I don't think my comments are too out of place.

Please do not put all the blame for swiys problems at the door of Heroin,Don't misunderstand swim Heroin as clearly messed up your life in a big way,But i will take a wild stab in the dark that swiy as far deeper underlying problems.swim was with his partner for 7 years prior to meeting me she had been a manic depresant for about 5-6yrs and had made dozens of attempts at ending her life,swim managed to keep his Heroin addiction secret from her for around 4yrs~so began swihers H addiction other than the usual H related problems life was pretty good for the entire time she was using>>Fast forward to were we split,she slit her throught and wrists in bathroom then came in to kitchen to show swim what she had done,999 call,3 months section,lots of therapy and asummed ongoing medications,that was 8yrs ago.she now lives a perfectly normal life i guess she still has therapy but all in all she is alive and well.
Why is swim telling you this tale of woe??please go and seek medical help~find out why your problems really exist,forget all your money worries just concentrate on getting clean AND help for your real thoughts about mortality,and get the fuck on with your life.
swiy has wasted? 2yrs of your life,If you wanted to and got the correct help swim will guarantee in a few yrs you will be/can do anything you desire.try what have you got to loose?
i genuinly hope you end your pain one way or the other.Regards jon...Q

Originally Posted by Herbal Remedy

damn dude i dont know what to say. Swim appreciates the tip but your post legitimitly scares him. Swim hopes you can turn it around DT and make it out, thanks for the support, everyone.

oh yea, so about swims question

"should he go with the painkillers and taper down or stick with a gram of smack and taper down?"

thanks again

IF either is illicit it all boils down to your will power,swim as allready told swiy my thoughts on this.The best way would be through professional help as ongoig help will be there should you need it(and you will)
Initial withdrawls will be worse with pills but will level out quicker also the psycological cravings will be worse to begin with pills.
Which ever method swiy goes for the aim is to reduce ones dose every day and only take enough to stave off the "worst" of your withdrawls.

[dyingtomorrow]

Well, my suggestion was to get suboxone (or subutex, but I don't know the dosages) with that money, because the street pricing would be about the same. If you can't do that, I'd say the pills, because very, very few people can actually taper down with smack. One night you're just gonna say fuck it and do it all so you can enjoy "one last good shot." So pills if you can't get bupe, but even the pills are gonna leave you in pain for a while tho.

[SamIam]

Hm. As someone who has been clean for a few days and nights, one of the biggest suggestions I have to offer is get into a program. NA (narcotics anonymous) can be the biggest blessing...WHEN YOU ARE READY FOR IT. Everyone has a different bottom, you know? It's only when you get just as desperate to QUIT using as you were to KEEP USING or GET MORE that you will be able to make it. The program is everywhere. One meeting can show you just how many people have are recovering. And it's very true, most everyone has said, "Oh but MY situation is different! I was hoeing it one the street" or "I lost all my money and my wife!" or "My parents stuck me in rehab...." Listen, no one is more special in his or her addiction, in my opinion. The fact is that *I* could not live or function without drugs. And simply quitting wasn't enough for me. I had to have a new set of principles and a new set of friends to stay clean.

[Herbal Remedy]

swim is starting his plan all over again, but he knows he can do it. Swim decided it would be better to have support, so he told his family of his situation. Swim will keep the boards updated, thanks so much for the support.

[fiveleggedrat]

Question: Why is it so hard for so many people to use one, maybe two days a week max? Do Swimmers get addicted because they don't know it only takes a few days or do they not care?

Honestly asking, because I wonder this all the time.

PS, even coming from a user and not an addicted one at that's standpoint, going from using drugs weekly to using nothing ever sucks, and is difficult to get over. Fuck droughts.

[dyingtomorrow]

Originally Posted by fiveleggedrat

Question: Why is it so hard for so many people to use one, maybe two days a week max? Do Swimmers get addicted because they don't know it only takes a few days or do they not care?

Honestly asking, because I wonder this all the time.

PS, even coming from a user and not an addicted one at that's standpoint, going from using drugs weekly to using nothing ever sucks, and is difficult to get over. Fuck droughts.

H helped SWIM A LOT. He could actually sleep, wasn't depressed anymore, and it made him do even better than he was in law school.

SWIM realized he wasn't going to be able to afford H long enough to get him thru law school. SWIM hated life before H so he just said fuck it and went on a huge binge and started IVing till he burned himself out financially.

SWIM chose to get addicted because it's the only drug that ever helped SWIM. SWIM has seen the other side tho - people who just start doing it a couple days a week. Then they have a bad day and do it 2 days in a row. They swear not to do it 3 days in a row. Then after doing it 2 days in a row (and skipping a day or 2) which has been safe so far, they have a really bad day after the 2nd day of doing it, or a really good day, and end up doing it 3 days in a row. At this point one of 2 things happens: (1) their brain chemistry is already changed and they are addicted and obsessed over it without consciously knowing it, or (2) they aren't necessarily biological addicted, but just say fuck skipping days, at this point they are only snorting $10-20 a day, so why not just do it everyday because they can easily afford it and it feels really good. And there you go.

[jon-q]

Originally Posted by fiveleggedrat

Question: Why is it so hard for so many people to use one, maybe two days a week max? Do Swimmers get addicted because they don't know it only takes a few days or do they not care?

Honestly asking, because I wonder this all the time.

PS, even coming from a user and not an addicted one at that's standpoint, going from using drugs weekly to using nothing ever sucks, and is difficult to get over. Fuck droughts.

Remember that first kiss or the first time one has any new but good experience!you can't wait to repeat it~well to translate this to heroin~the first time h is taken even if swiy was to be sick he can't wait to feel that feeling again,so it's taken a second day (at the start 0.5g is enough for 3-4 good hits) so on day 3 swim feeling no sickness says "what the hell swim aint like other weak people that can't handle drugs",still got a bit left might as well use it up (at this point mental addiction has already started) so swim takes the h for the 3rd day.The following day swim will feel a little ill not a lot but that mental side of the brain (thats all ready hooked) tells swim to just have a tiny bit just to get right for today~swim need not carry on this example,the cycle continues on and on.
The same can be said for any smimmer thats got clean,he just wants to feel that first time feeling again~just have it once ha ha fatal mistake 1 day and bang hooked again..
Normal rules=swim as just awoke so any error's will be edited later on.....Q

[Herbal Remedy]

swim has an addictive personality, but is also fairly new to H. Swim has a lot of work to do but is still in descent shape. Swim possibly could use H once or twice a week, and not get sick n all, but thats not his experience with H. As far as he is concerned, he has only hurt himself with H so he doesnt see any reason for it to be in his life. He just wants to be clean and stay responsible, and never get hooked again.