Health - Taking high dose LSD after a long hiatus??

[jasonbt08]

What's up everyone? This seems like a great forum and I'm glad I found it.


Anyway, SWIM has a serious question regarding SWIM's past and future endeavors with Long Sunny Days. SWIM had been enjoying those long sunny days for over eight years and had never had a storm in the middle of one until the last time, which was seven years ago. Since then, SWIM has remained completely clean and clear, even breaking up with Mary-Jane immediately after this event, but he was not with her the night this happened.
SWIM began to feel a burning and lightning like electrical shock sensations shooting through SWIMS brain and spine at the end of the day, while landing back into reality. These feelings were so intense that SWIMS heart began to palpitate uncontrollably. SWIM now knows the heart rate problems were absolutely anxiety based and is not at all concerned with that. SWIM is very concerned with the electric shock feeling that was produced with this storm and had never felt such a scary sensation in SWIMS absolutely countless experiences. SWIM said the take off, and the landing felt very rough, and described it as a "sandpaper rubbing raw brain". SWIM had an eeg, cat scan and MRI done a few years back and everything was normal.

Now, the question... SWIM has recently been very badly wanting the sensation again of a long sunny day trip, but doesn't know if these sensations were all in the head, or if there is something underlying that could be there and triggered by these events. SWIM knows this question can only truly be answered by an md, but really wants to hear SWIY's opinion of these events and if taking that trip would be a stupid decision, or a happy overcoming one.


By the way, SWIM was very experienced up to and including the last time, one trip was usually five to ten at a time.

[Songcycle67]

When SWIM takes very large doses (as seems to be the case with SWIY) he gets that feeling of electricity shooting through his brain. To him it feels not quite like a headache, but similar. It's as if lightning is striking inside his brain, as you said...usually this feeling is accompanied with scattered thoughts and wild visions. If this sounds like what SWIY went through, then I'd chalk it up to high dose. There can be lots of physical sensations produced during high dose experiences (and low doses for that matter) and they differ for everyone. This particular side effect (lightning in the brain) seems pretty common as SWIM has discussed it with many high dosers who have experienced the phenomenon.

There is a possibility that this could happen again should SWIY dose too high (and SWIM'd be very cautious as to how much SWIY takes...they must keep in mind that they are no longer tolerant to the chemical). Should they choose to take it again (and SWIM believes it would be perfectly safe), just remember the old mantra: "turn off your mind, relax and float downstream." If they get too worried or hung up about not wanting to feel that sensation again then if it does happen they will most-likely be consumed by it. Every sensation a person feels under the influence of LSD is being created by the brain. Every image, every thought, every feeling was already there. As long as SWIY is mentally healthy (and with cat scans to boot i'd say they are!) SWIM'd say have no fear!!

Fear is the only obstacle here that could cause problems in his opinion. Tell them not to try to control it or understand it...go with the flow. Someone who has experienced many a Long Sunny Day should have a wonderful welcoming party by the warm little LSD fairies. With such a long break the brain is going to be much busier marvelling at all the wonderment it had long forgotten than worrying about one incident...but if it does come up, let it.

[jasonbt08]

WOW, beautiful answer... Thank you

If SWIM does decide to have another long sunny day, SWIM knows the old tolerance is out the door and baby steps are required. If the first trip goes smoothly, SWIM will never want high doses again and will be happy with that.

[Songcycle67]

No problem, I hope SWIY's welcome-back party goes well. I'm sure it will.

And definitely baby steps, there's yet to be a time when SWIM has taken over 200 micrograms and not felt "lightning in the brain." On particularly large doses the entire experience feels like that...it's as if the LSD is burning white hot through all the receptors in the brain. The vision whites out, your eyes feel like burning hot coals and the brain feels similar. That's the main reason SWIM is fairly sure this is dose-related.

By 5 to 10 trips did SWIY mean hits? If so, golly. That means they were juiced on at least 400ug of liquid electricity. SWIM can definitely see that causing a brain-burner.

[jasonbt08]

Yes SWIM meant hits. SWIM at one time considered himself to be and lsd and mind master, until this event. Thx again! Anyone else have input?

[Frond]

Can't relate to the experience since Sir Tokesalot never told me about having gone through anything similar. He wasn't always a giant fan of long sunny days, preferring the dark cave in which the fungus dwells, but because of the easy availability of the former to him at the time he also partook consistently, and now has literally hundreds of hits behind him.

All I can relate is some general advice that he told me for someone getting back into the scene: depending on where SWIY is, he may not be able to get his days long and sunny at all. Very often, what he'd actually get will be some RC, like DOB or DOI or perhaps some tryptamine that is active in very low doses and can fit on a tab. Therefore, it becomes vital that SWIY starts slow if he does not know his source. A good indicator is this: if the blotter is bitter, or if it takes several hours or more to kick in, then it's probably an RC of some sort.

Sir Tokesalot generally tends to distrust his own sensory input on any high dose of anything, be it rainy or sunny. If SWIYs medical examinations show no sign of damage, and if there are no observed effects or impairments during his sober hours, then it's probably better to trust the facts rather than SWIYs own twisted sensorium at the time of the experience.

Likewise, Sir Tokesalot also found that there is little point to dosing past the saturation point in the brain, i.e. 500-700 mics or so. Past this point, duration increases and there could be some increase in the window dressing - i.e. body buzz and visuals - but the core essense of the experience is unchanged. Side effects and peripheral discomfort, however, go up a great deal. And, because it is often impossible to know the exact dosage in a tab, taking 5-10 hits just because SWIY used to do it is probably overkill.

Lastly, if SWIY expects to go into the experience feeling these shattery phenomena, then the chances of them manifesting are that much higher. It is difficult to go into an experience, with which one has a lot of familiarity, with a clean slate - so it may be a good idea to cleanse the palate, as it were, with another similar entheogen, maybe even one that is shaped very suspiciously like a mushroom (or a cactus, or a leaf and a vine). Then, one could, hopefully, go into another long, sunny day with a different set of expectations.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good info

[Songcycle67]

SWIM would disagree with the above statements about dosing beyond 500 micrograms. There is more beyond that knotch in the belt, but most of it is centered around the ego. For example, beyond 1,000ug in most subjects there is very little visual excitement. Vision whites out for the full duration of the peak at around 700ug and when one goes beyond the "white-out" dose virtually the entire experience is changed. One would be hard pressed to compare a 500ug dose to a 2,000ug dose. The gentle lilting and breathing of the earth dissipates as there is no vision through which to see these aesthetic pleasures. One can hardly feel their own body, the ears ring with the heat of charcoal and gasoline, the ego is completely stripped away effortlessly. Duration is increased, but this is true of all higher dose experiences.

There is, however, a point (SWIM believes it to be in the 3,000ug range) where the experience maxes out and one can go no further and all that is changed is duration and intensity. Due to the nature of the drug, though, that could be all that is needed to illicit a completely different psychological reaction. Even an hour more in that state could perhaps impress upon an individual a much different experience than even 100ug less would produce, and we know that doses as little as 5,000ug can produce literally days of intoxication and instant inebriation--something that delivers a shock to the nervous system sometimes resulting in fainting and seizures.

I believe bongo & co. has an interesting story about that 3,000ug watermark and how it compares to lesser doses, but panthers would know more about that.

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great informative post

[Panthers007]

I would suggest researching the word/concept of: Kundalini.

Kundalini is an energy that can be released from the base of the spine and travels, coiled like two snakes, up the spine and - in the most complete examples - out of the top of the skull (The "Godhead"). This comes from Hindu and Buddhist (Mahayana) teachings. The use of psychedelics has been known to release this energy-flow - which can be extremely disconcerting to the unaware. Both the person experiencing such, as well as outside observers. But fear not.

By reading/learning about this phenomena, one can be prepared for such if it happens again. Kundalini is not life-threatening. Cultivated and understood, it can be a profound and beautiful event in one's life. Now read, young Fish, read!

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great post

[Frond]

I've heard of the phenomenon many years ago, but never actually connected it with any psychedelic use, not having any experience with these things. But, I should pass it on to Sir Tokesalot, and see what he makes of it. Maybe in his collection of manuscripts, which his friar preserved from Greek and Roman times, there will be something about it.

Our brave knight generally feels his ego let go around the 700mic mark, so for him subsequent dosage hasn't really altered the nature of the experience but rather increased the peripheral effects, both the good and the bad. He's never had his vision white out, though he very often loses track of all concepts, of pretty much everything, and can't tell the difference between a door and past tense. Naturally, he can't distinguish between reality and his imagination. Once, he even became a dog! Still, he's had his days long and sunny to the tune of 1200-1500 mics maximum (hard to say exactly what), and not knowing purity and source, he'd much rather not push his luck. He will need his faculties in the Crusades, after all. If only he was alive in the generation where these things were easy!

[Edit: and speaking of purity, here's a question that he asked me. If LSD is active at such incredibly low dosage ranges, well below that of nearly any other known psychotropic drug, then is purity an issue at all, when any contaminant in the tab is bound to be at such an extremely low concentration that it will probably not be psychoactive? In other words, will purity qualitatively affect the experience? He certainly has had many different versions of his sunny days, but he usually wrote that off to the large number of LSD-analogues and never really knowing what's in his system. Yes, our brave knight is not a chemist, much to his perpetual embarrassment.]

Reputation Comments on this post:

Nice writing style: Informative and original

[Songcycle67]

Frond, the question of purity is covered in detail in the LSD Quality/Cleanliness thread here:

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...d.php?p=451542

Unfortunately it is a highly debated and currently untestable subject, but there are many objective points of view in the thread that should shed some light on the matter and give Sir Tokesalot a general idea of the key arguments. I think you'll find that his theory about the low number of contaminants possible in a microgram dose are merited to a degree.

The good Sir seems to have quite a good grasp of the effects of psychedelics and if one studies enough, LSD chemistry is fairly easy to understand. As has been said many times before, you don't have to be a chemist to understand the production of LSD if you treat it as one would treat the recipe to a cake. There are a relatively small number of ingredients and a few fairly minor, but meticulous, chemical reactions needed. Owsley Stanley learned the recipe in less than a week using only the Sandoz lab records and a few organic chemistry books from the Berkeley University library.

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