Pharmacology - Stronger RX question

[Probing Tranquility]

Swim was prescribed 50mg of propoxyphene napsylate 3 times a day for around 6 months for a bulging disc. It didn't really do shit for swims back, the other day it was just killing me so swim went into the er and they told swim to throw out his darvocet and they gave swim a script for 5/325 oxycodone/acetometiphen. Swim is suppose to take 2 every 4 hours and they work great, swim even gets a good buzz from them. now swim has to see his regular doc and convince him to give him same. any suggestions on what to say besides the obvious? That guide to getting inside your docs head was pretty beneficial, swim'll probly use some of the tips in there but any other ones are wellcome.

[fiveleggedrat]

There really isn't anything to do but be honest that the propexyphene is not working for you. Just tell him it gives very little, if any relief, and that the oxycodone is working much better, but Swim is still feeling pain. Honesty works better than bold-faced lying. Or a mix or the two

[Probing Tranquility]

swim told him that but he wouldn't give swim oxycodone, the propoxyphene doesn't work very well, but everyone says swim's too young too be on percs. His doc went off on how irresponsible the ER doc was for giving me those saying that they're too addictive and by the time swim is forty he'll be taking 20 a day(swim repressed the urge to tell him he was at ease with this). should swim goto a different doc? he doesn't want to switch if the new doc isn't going to give him any opiates

[Issmortor]

some doctors are just fervent in their direction towards opiates and other potentially addicting drugs

youre going to a doc to seek aid, tho these people are [hopefuly]very trained professionals, noone but YOU know your body the best...so if you really belive that you need the oxycodone to go through life in lesspain, and you honestly think that is the reason for taking and not for the buzz...then you need to seek a doctor who will listen to YOU and at least let you try things if you want to, again i strees be a realist for side of need and want when it comes to the drug to nomrallize your pain level or to have fun and recreation with them?

[MEKONE]

Originally Posted by Probing Tranquility

Swim was prescribed 50mg of propoxyphene napsylate 3 times a day for around 6 months for a bulging disc.It didn't really do shit for swims back

Being that this has been going on for half a year has SWIM told the doc durring this time that the current meds aren't working for him?Also is this a PN management DR. that we are speaking of or just a regular family DR.?

Originally Posted by Probing Tranquility

the other day it was just killing me so swim went into the er and they told swim to throw out his darvocet and they gave swim a script for 5/325 oxycodone/acetometiphen. Swim is suppose to take 2 every 4 hours and they work great,.

There are quite a few DR's that try to stay away from prescribing oxy,BUT will prescribe things such as methadone,morphine,etc..if your condition is a CP matter.

Originally Posted by Probing Tranquility

His doc went off on how irresponsible the ER doc was for giving me those saying that they're too addictive and by the time swim is forty he'll be taking 20 a day(swim repressed the urge to tell him he was at ease with this). should swim goto a different doc?

By the sound of it,like it was mentioned above it dosn't look like SWIMS current DR. will be prescribing oxy to him BUT he can still however tell the Dr.that the current meds are not working and he needs to adjust SWIMS meds.The whole thing about the DR. is that SWIM wants him to feel like SWIM is willing to try anything/everything he is willing to prescribe to help with the PN. BUT it can come to a time that SWIM's Dr. is just a straight up dick.That would have to be a determination SWIM needs to make for himself.

Originally Posted by Probing Tranquility

he doesn't want to switch if the new doc isn't going to give him any opiates

Do NOT make your determination on this alone.If that is the case SWIM can just buy a bag of "H" and there are his opiates

[fiveleggedrat]

Swim says time for a new doctor; you've found one of those stubborn, anti opioid ones. I hate when doctors preach to Swim; Swim hates being assumed to be an idiot to the dangers of drugs with recreational/addictive potential. Talking and explaining Swim's knowledge of the matter only makes them label him as drug-seeking. Phooey!

And lastly: I highly, highly suggest saving the self med route with Heroin for absolute LAST CHOICE. Heroin is a step up from oxycodone, for sure.

[Probing Tranquility]

To MEKONE:

The Dr. is just a family doctor but swims checking into a pain specialist, but is afriad of ungodly medical bills.

Swims condition is a chronic pain matter, and would love to find doctors who can empathise with the pain swim goes through, he would also love to find drs who prescrible morphine, or methadone

Swim has told his doctor that the medication wasn't working very well he was told that darvacet was the strongest pn med he would be given and when swim complained again swim wound up with a script for gabapentin, cyclobenzaprine, and indomethicin(sp?), but those did little for swim's pain. After he told his doc this swim was told to go back on darvacet.

Opiates have been the only thing that has helped swim's back and swims area is painfully dry of any and all opiates. If they ever are around its either overpriced vics or percs or people who want a buck a mg for OCs

To fiveleggedrat:

Swim wants to find a different dr. or at least have a good sit down with his current dr. One of the reasons swim didn't want to change docs is he feared then being labeled as "doctor shopping", but if this one wont help then I guess i'll have to switch

[Laudaphun]

Originally Posted by Probing Tranquility

swim told him that but he wouldn't give swim oxycodone, the propoxyphene doesn't work very well, but everyone says swim's too young too be on percs. His doc went off on how irresponsible the ER doc was for giving me those saying that they're too addictive and by the time swim is forty he'll be taking 20 a day(swim repressed the urge to tell him he was at ease with this). should swim goto a different doc? he doesn't want to switch if the new doc isn't going to give him any opiates

The same thing happened when SWIM was about 20. Car accident, head-on collision... ER gave SWIM 10/650 oxycodone/APAP which worked wonderfully. At that time, SWIM didn't even know that a 10mg oxycodone (percocet) existed outside of the time-release version.

After seeing a family dr. SWIM was given 5/500 (1-2 q 4-6h) hydrocodone/apap which didn't work that well, but weren't totally ineffective either. SWIM specifically remembers the Dr. telling her that she didn't want to give her anything too strong now, as she would need stronger meds when she got older.... Basically dr. told her to keep tolerance down now, cause in years to come, stronger opiods would be needed, etc, etc.

Years later, SWIM has a tendancy to think the dr. spoke the truth. However, SWIM would be pissed if she was in enough pain to require a prescription pain med and got propoxyphene.

Laudaphun added 5 Minutes and 11 Seconds later...

When SWIM was young, she wished the Dr.s would "just understand" and give her what she wanted.

10 years later, SWIM looks at things quite a bit differently than when 18 years old and finds taht ironically it turns out that age is a major determining factor in most of the dr willingness to prescribe abusable or controlled substances.

I think that makes sense, and holds true at least for the doctor's that SWIM has seen. This is as long as SWIM has been able to demonstrate the ability to be a responsible adult.

[MEKONE]

Has SWIY seen the Dr. again since the initial post?If so how was the outcome?

[Probing Tranquility]

Originally Posted by MEKONE

Has SWIY seen the Dr. again since the initial post?If so how was the outcome?

Swim has seen the doc since and so far there has been no progress. The local ER gave swim some 10/325 norco on the 28th and just today swim hurt his back when he went to pick up his son's car seat. swim plans on talking to the dr on friday and try to get him to believe the pain swim is going through. it is very frustrating

[Spare Chaynge]

Swiy will not be labeld as a dr shopper as long as he discontinues being prescribed proproxyphene by the dr swiy is currently seeing.

[fiveleggedrat]

Swim suggests reading doctor reviews online; usually, those that happen to be more loose with prescribing medications will have information like this in their reviews (as opposed to those not giving out ANYTHING).

Swim avoids those "dry" doctors like the plague. Sorry, I can do my own research and come to my own conclusion about my issues. I'm certainly not medically retarded, and don't want doctors who prefer experimental treatments like bizarre shots opposed to proper medication when it is truly called for.

[Psych0naut]

As a temporary solution, poppy pod tea will suffice as well. Dried poppy pods can easilly be obtained through the internet, and in large quantities. They can be expensive, but just look search around and cheaper sellers can be found. Poppy pod tea get's it's painkilling properties mostly from the morphine it contains(aside from the codeine, noscapine, thebaine and a few dozen other opiate alkaloids). How to prepare a propper tea from dried poppy pods is explained in several threads on this forum, so do a search, and all the info can be found. Hope that helps for the time being!

[Laudaphun]

SWIM recently sought medical treatment for her back for the first time in several years... After a leg and an arm going numb for over a month, finally she got around to seeing the dr. But, oddly... they are ordering not only new x-rays, blood-work, MRI, but a "brain-scan" of some sort. SWIM has been a little confused... doesn't know whether all of this is really necessary, or the dr. has the opportunity to tell the insurance company what MUST be done. SWIM was really hoping it was just a pinched nerve... not a brain tumor. SWIM is now a little freaked out. Numbness has subsided resently, and given that she already has been told she has an incorrectable problem with her back that would not really be significant until she got older.... No 23% degree curve to relieve pressure on disks, meaning they will degenerate prematurely. Honestly, SWIM has decided that she would like to go back on "light" pain meds... and by what most of us consider to be "light" are not typically considered so by the rest of the world. SWIM would like to be quite frank with the dr. and explain her feelings... but it can't be that simple. SWIM would like to be given oxycodone to be used as needed. If SWIM discovers that she cannot use it responsibily, then she would like to tell the dr. that she does not wish to be prescribed it. SWIM thinks it is unlikely that oxycodone/APAP tablets are of any significant risk, as they really don't have the appeal they did before SWIM discovered the wide world of vastly more powerful opiate preparations.

SWIM is kind of rambling on about 2 different things now... but she wishes she could just say to the dr. "Look, I would like to try narcotic pain medication on a 30-day trial, and to be closely monitored, pills counted at revisit, etc to see if it is something she can take responsibility... if not, then she will have to explore alternatives" But, she knows that even her family dr. who might understand, and might be willing after SWIM has spent years earning back her trust... but SWIM doesn't want to do anything to lose her trust or make her think she is not being 100% honest.

SWIM guess, this is all gonna come up when SWIM tells her about the visit to the univ. health center who referred her for a host of tests... really SWIM just needed an excuse from school, as she really does have a documented problem... but instead of just getting an excuse, she now is being sent for a lot of stuff SWIM has never had done before. Arrrggg.... Sorry, if the post seemed more like an epic rant.

[Probing Tranquility]

Swim was switched to tramadol. so far it has no effect on the pain.

[MEKONE]

In SWIM's oppinion Tramadol/Ultram sucks the big one.However if that is what SWIY's Dr. prescribed then take them and if no relief is felt then be honest and tell him so on your next visit.The key is to try diffrent meds that your Dr. may want to give SWIY and not bitch and whine about it to him or recommend something yourself.Once SWIY starts asking for a specific med or making a fuss about your meds too soon then SWIY will be looked as a seeker.This however does NOT mean that SWIY can't complaine to the Dr..If for example, you tell him the tram. is not working and he ups your dose then fine accept it,however if months go by and he refuses to give you anything better then by all means say something like"Look,I've tried all these diffrent meds/doses you recommended but my pain is NOT getting any better I REALLY need to find a way to manage this pain.Is there anything better that you can recommend?"

[lorzapmail]

Originally Posted by Probing Tranquility

Swim was switched to tramadol. so far it has no effect on the pain.

.............

Your doctor now has you at the bottom of the pain med scale. You need a new doctor.

[Probing Tranquility]

swim found out he was put on a no opiate list after he talked to his doctor about the roxicet. Swim thinks this is bullshit.

[MEKONE]

Originally Posted by Probing Tranquility

swim found out he was put on a no opiate list after he talked to his doctor about the roxicet. Swim thinks this is bullshit.

Does SWIY have ANY idea why the Dr. would do this just because of talking to him about it.Does the Dr. suspect,or have ANY reason to believe SWIY has the potential to abuse meds?

[MEKONE]

Originally Posted by betsym

Mekone,Doctors have to cover their butts or lose them..

EXACTLY!!

Originally Posted by betsym

It's when they begin to love that "good buzz" a little too much that the problems start (although some pain patients get no buzz at all). Doctors are TRAINED to see when this begins to happen. When a patient comes in and immediately says I can't take this and I can't take that, BUT I CAN take THIS, a red flag goes up fast. When a patient "pretends" to go along with the prescribed medication but doesn't bother to hide the disappointed look on their face, the doctor can SEE that. They KNOW what questions are going to get asked even BEFORE they get asked. Doctors are taught this because the insurance companies covering their malpractice wants to make sure they know the difference between a patient and an addict..

Which is why SWIM says play along with the Dr and be willing to try ANYTHING they are willing to prescribe.After all your there seeking help from Pain.

Originally Posted by betsym

If swiy goes to another doctor, it might be better to go a little farther from home because chances are good he will circulate swiy's name around to the other docs in the area, just in case swiy goes to see THEM. Swim has seen this kind of thing happen before. One doc will call up another one and say "if so-and-so comes to your office, they are after such-and-such, so you might not want to see them."

Some insurance companies can also track these things and inform Dr's as well.All it takes is 1 phone call from the new Dr's office to verify the insurance and then the insurance company can say "well so,and so was also seeing this pn. specialist as well",which will trigger the new Dr. to call the old one. Be safe and be careful!!

[MEKONE]

Originally Posted by betsym

A doctor thinks that if a person is TOO knowledgeable about a particular drug or drugs

100% agreed,however if one was to simply ask if there is anything "better/stronger/longer acting"and was to do so innocently then there should be no problem.If one goes in there with an attitude that"Only Oxy or fent will work" then one can expect to be blackballed.

[MEKONE]

Originally Posted by betsym

Actually, if one were to ask that question BEFORE they had been on a few other things first, more than just one, then the doc will pretty much think swiy is a drug seeker.

This is exactly why I asked...

Originally Posted by MEKONE

Does SWIY have ANY idea why the Dr. would do this just because of talking to him about it.Does the Dr. suspect,or have ANY reason to believe SWIY has the potential to abuse meds?