How many people actaually stay clean?

[stephy171072]

I have spent a lot of time researching this on the internet and on this fourm and im sorry if this is allready on here somewhere because apparently I have asked a questioin before that was allready answered and I missed it. However I was wondering if anyone had any kind of facts on how many people who properly become hooked on heroin and have a habbit then manage to get clean and stay clean? I am really interested in knowing and would really appreciate if anyone had any rough figures.
Thank you in advance

[Spare Chaynge]

Figures are hard to come up with for these kind of things.. Why because if swim goes to rehab gets clean and then 2 months later starts shooting dope and they get a call from the rehab statistic guy .. do swiy think they would answer or if they did tell the truth..


Swim kicked heroin and has been clean and sober for 9 months.. so did some other swims on this site...

[chillinwill]

SWIM is another one of the ppl able to stay clean (finally) off of heroin....he is coming up on 6 months in a few days

[stephy171072]

Yeah wasn't sure if it would be posible due to the reasons you said but well done to both of you! Keep it up! Hopefully I

stephy171072 added 0 Minutes and 54 Seconds later...

will follow in your footsteps one day.

[Alfa]

Please be so kind to post in the correct forum. Thread moved.

[Lisa J]

SWIM has just lapsed after nearly 12 months clean, before that she relapsed after 10 years clean, it's so fucking hard to stay away from heroin, already she's struggled with this for 25 years
SWIM has started again and is now 2 days clean

[chillinwill]

Lisa J,

it is so fucking hard with heroin....this is the must SWIM has gotten clean but cant even begin to imagine relapsing after getting a year or even 10 years clean....but its good to know that SWIY is still trying to stay clean even through the ups and downs and that SWIY is back on the right track towards recovery....may i ask what caused SWIY to relapse after 12 months?

[Richard_smoker]

it's a very difficult thing to quantify simply as "clean" or "not clean". Being clean is much like the addiction itself. It can weave its thread thru all or most of one's existence. something as powerful as ANY opiate, much less Heroin (the queen mother) can be quite a struggle to stay free.

good luck to all. -DICK

[Lisa J]

SWIM started smoking fentanyl a couple of months ago and kidded herself it wasn't a problem because it was prescribed to her & didn't cost her anything (well apart from the pre-payment prescription charge). SWIM then started mixing her fent with heroin so it would burn a little slower, all this was made worse because of personal stress issues and what should have been a one off binge for a week has gone on for 5 weeks now. It only took about 10 days for SWIM to get her old tolerance back which means SWIM gets nothing from doing 2 bags of gear unless she adds fent to it, SWIM just about gets a teenth to last 2 days and she's nearly broke again. SWIM didn't take her methadone when using but now she's back on it she's still had to double the amount needed to stop withdrawal.
SWIM would love to be free of "wanting" heroin, she loves the feeling she gets from those first few bags after a long period clean, but it doesn't take long before she fails to get high from it, she knows this but she keeps going back

[y0ssarianlives]

I read a study from an accredited source, NIDA, or SAMHSA, some organization like that, which stated the rate of chemically dependent people who remain completely abstinent a year later after getting out of treatment is around 5%.

Another statistic says the rate of abstinence from non-prescribed psychoactive chemicals with people in methadone programs is around 8%. Although... methadone clinics tend to be more lax than inpatient/outpatient treatment programs as far as drug testing goes, and methadone patients are less likely to admit to use as they are probably worried about getting kicked out of the program, there's not a significant difference between the two stats.

So yeah, according to distanced researchers most likely basing their information off of faulty polling methods, not a whole fuck of a lot.

[kailey_elise]

y0ssarianlives,

God, I find this so awfully depressing.

~Kailey

[missparkles]

People clean up at different rates. Sparkles spent nearly thirty years getting clean. She's been drug free for a few years now. But she knows others who have relapsed, but after several attempts got clean.
Perhaps the question should address peoples lives, not their addiction?
Is their life more or less manageable since they went on a drug treatment programme? Some see themselves as clean cos they no longer take their drug of choice, hold down a job and don't have addictive lifestyles any more. That sound like success to me.
Sparkles imagines drinking, after addiction treatment, could be seen as failure. In the strictest sense of addiction it is, but Sparkles thinks drinking alcohol, responsibly, after long term addiction is fuckin' awesome.
Take care.
Sparkles.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Excellent points which are all true in the recovery process

[chillinwill]

^^This is indeed so very true. Red Rock is coming up on 16 months clean off heroin (minus 2 opiate uses in the past 16 months) and during these 16 months, all he has used is alcohol for about a month but then had to quit because of addicitive tendancies, psychedelic usage, some MDMA, and weed twice. Now some people like in NA/AA might look at that and say that boy has relapsed, he is a failure. Do not associate with him until he gets clean. Well Red Rock's life has done a complete 180 degrees in the past 16 months and he considers himself clean. All that matters is what you think. If what SWIY is doing is benefiting their life more so now than what their addiction was doing in the past, then stick with it.

[missparkles]

That's all that counts Red Rock. Compared to what they had, the risky lifestyle, is their life better now. If so it's a success. Sparkles is like Red Rock, she has an extremely addictive personality, she knows one substance can be enough. As she's somewhat older the urgency/necessity for her is more enhanced. She's noticed it's got more difficult as she's got older, so she does have a different incentive, one that others won't ever realise she hopes, to stay clean. But she knows people who were literally in the gutter through addiction. Now they have their own place and some stability, that's a recovery.
Sound weird, but it's not.
Sparkles.

[dyingtomorrow]

Well, SWIM's failed from 3 methadone treatments, 1 28-day rehab, and 1 2-month expensive as fuck rehab. As well as 2 years of suboxone - the longest SWIM stopped taking heroin with his own willpower was 1 month on the suboxone; it was so god awful being off of heroin that he just went back to selling the suboxone for heroin money.

SWIM doesn't know anyone personally who has developed a physical addiction and then got clean for any significant period of time (maybe 1 or 2 people for a year at most), and he knows scores of addicts. The only way out, especially if you have an IV habit, for 95% seems to be death or jail. SWIM would guess people that only snort or smoke heroin probably have a better chance though.

Reputation Comments on this post:

back up your statistics.

[ex-junkie]

Originally Posted by stephy171072

I have spent a lot of time researching this on the internet and on this fourm and im sorry if this is allready on here somewhere because apparently I have asked a questioin before that was allready answered and I missed it. However I was wondering if anyone had any kind of facts on how many people who properly become hooked on heroin and have a habbit then manage to get clean and stay clean? I am really interested in knowing and would really appreciate if anyone had any rough figures.
Thank you in advance

not sure about figures overall, but swim beat heroin/methadone and has been completely opiate free since october 2005.

[missparkles]

When Sparkles was using she didn't know anyone who was clean for any length of time. But then she didn't want to know anyone who was clean, to be honest. That way she could justify going through treatment, using again, going through rehab, using again, saying "it's impossible to quit, why should I try?"
When she acknowledged it was possible she had no excuse not to quit, much better to continue to lie to herself that it was impossible. But she's been clean for a few years now, nearly five, although she was on pain meds for a while so the amount of time could be debated. She's clean today, that's all that matters to her.
Clean time just gives any addict a bit more recovery insurance against using, but Sparkles never forgets she's only as far away from the next hit as someone with one day clean in their emotional bank account.
Take care.
Sparkles.

[schlumpf23]

Swim managed to stay clean from opiates for about 3years after a 5year heroin IV habit. Swim had to move to a different country & completely change swim's lifestyle. However, swim met someone who provided access to fentanyl, dihydrocodeine & heroin.. Swim began as a weekend warrior, this didn't last for long & soon swim was completely addicted again. That was almost 3years ago.
Swim is now on day 4 of a suboxone maintenance & is feeling positive about the future. Swim now realises that once you've been addicted to opiates, even if you've been clean for sometime, the potential for relapse is always there. Swim finally realises that it's an illness that swim will carry with himself for the rest of his life.
Hope this is of some help!

Reputation Comments on this post:

Making OP aware of relapse, how it can happen.

[Spucky]

My Cat had a old-Study but can upload only the Abstract Version
because of the Copyrights!

This showed "hard Numbers" because every Number is a real Person,
but please don`t forget that this is only a Statistic and nothing more,
maybe Swiny and Swim + "the Others" are something Special and outside of "normality",
the Gaijin`s of every Statistic and Averages!

Detoxification treatment has reached an important significance among the supply of treatments for opiod dependents since 1991.
Qualified detoxification treatment has made possible admissions and discharges without direct inpatient abstinent orientated treatment.
More and more acknowledge the relapse as a sequence of opiod dependency. Follow-ups after detoxification therapies are rare.

Method: During the period from 2005 to 2007, all patients, who had completed successfully their detoxification treatment,
were regularly asked, if they had relapsed or if they had been living without drugs.
The patients were divided into two groups: group 1 consisted of those patients who participated afterwards in an inpatient treatment;
whereas group 2 consisted of those who did not participate in any further therapies.

Results: 42.6% of all patients who completed the qualified detoxification treatment successfully. 197 of those were allocated in group 1 and 217 in group 2.
One week after having been discharged, 11% of group 1 and already 53% of group 2 had relapsed.
Three month after discharge, 48% of group 1 and 85% of group 2 had relapsed.
After 12 month, 84% of group 1 and 94% of group 2 had relapsed.
1.9% of all patients died within one year after their discharge.

Discussion and conclusion: The superiority at the beginning, concerning the abstinence of the therapy-group, declines and adjusts to the non-therapy group within one year, after discharge. But the abstinence of the therapy-group keeps superior with 16% to 6%. With qualified detoxification treatment, mortality can be kept, almost as low as with a substitution therapy. Longer periods of observation are aspired.

http://www.ecomed-medizin.de/sj/sfp/...rtikelId/10751

Reputation Comments on this post:

interesting statistics that people SHOULD NOT get disillusioned by.

[chillinwill]

Originally Posted by dyingtomorrow

Well, SWIM's failed from 3 methadone treatments, 1 28-day rehab, and 1 2-month expensive as fuck rehab. As well as 2 years of suboxone - the longest SWIM stopped taking heroin with his own willpower was 1 month on the suboxone; it was so god awful being off of heroin that he just went back to selling the suboxone for heroin money.

SWIM doesn't know anyone personally who has developed a physical addiction and then got clean for any significant period of time (maybe 1 or 2 people for a year at most), and he knows scores of addicts. The only way out, especially if you have an IV habit, for 95% seems to be death or jail. SWIM would guess people that only snort or smoke heroin probably have a better chance though.

Yeah Red Rock is only 23 and been through an $80,000 4 month inpatient rehab, two 28-day inpatient rehabs, 2 out patient rehabs, a 22 day wilderness trip, and a 5 month stay in a sober living house. Not to mention being on methadone for a while and then Suboxone for about 5 months or so. All of that failed and ended up being a waste of money. All that matters is how determined one is to stay off their drug of choice. Red Rock learned the lessons he needed to in his first rehab but never listened and it never "clicked" even after the last rehab. What clicked for Red Rock was being homeless, living under a bridge, his family didn't want anything to do with him, and then he got charged with a bunch of felonies. Everybody is different and what clicked for Red Rock might not click for someone else.

[g666d]

swim has been addicted before, H, not for long. Addiction such a vague term, but anyway enough for WD. After going through this swim has decided he doesn't want to do WD again, and probably won't, but swim doubts he will ever be 'clean'. Swim is happy about this, just doesn't associate opiates with the misery they seem to bring so many. Swim feels that as long as there is no WD, no problems. (as example of swims current usage, approx 8 60mg hits of oxycontin/oxynorm in last 7 months)

So swim counts himself as 1

just saying this because i feel that this is one of those situations that statistics won't do justice, or will give a falsely negative picture. Swim would regard any daily user quitting down to sporadic use as 'clean'

[missparkles]

Like Red Rock, Sparkles hit rock bottom, was left with nothing, just the clothes she was stood up in. No friends, no family, no home, no money....no hope.
She had to lose it all to realise just what she wanted. But it took numerous detoxes, lots of treatment centres and many years for her to get her head clean. She has to be totally abstinent, she knows from experience that it doesn't work for her if she isn't. She's tried recreational use (with most drugs) and it's just taken her back to the needle. She knows now that all she really did was get rid of the substance of abuse, didn't get rid of the using thoughts and mindset. She thought she could hang with others who used...and not use, assumed she could still be dishonest and not need to use to numb the feelings of guilt and shame she felt as a result. She imagined that she could use alcohol...no...it ended up using her.
Once she got it through her thick skull that getting rid of the drugs was only the first, easiest part, it was so much easier. She realised that if she didn't deal with the shit that she used on she would never be free of addiction. Yeah it was fuckin' painful, the most painful thing she's ever had to do, but it seemed to work for her. The bonus is that now she's done this she doesn't feel the need to use cos she has no painful feelings to deal with. But she has to be aware, which requires complete self honesty, just where she came from and where she doesn't want to go again. That can be difficult sometimes. But her recovery is the most important thing in her life, without recovery she'd have nothing. So it's worth it for her.
But as Sparkles always says recovery is personal, what works for one doesn't work for another. We all find our own path in recovery, as we do in life.
At the end of the day recovery can only be measured by how manageable a persons life is compared to when they were using. If it's better than it was, they've dealt with the addictive lifestyle that goes with it, that's success. She's realised, recently, that risk limitation/harm reduction can work to keep some people safe until they can cope with the whole recovery deal, so that works too. She does believe that eventually, lots of factors (health concerns and age being just two) can play an important role in people deciding to choose abstinence, as it has for her. When she was younger it really didn't seem so important.
Sparkles is rambling once again...she thinks her brain could be intoxicated by fumes...paint fumes.
Take care.
Sparkles.

PS. Sparkles still smokes cigarettes so she hasn't totally dealt with all of her addictions...but she never said she was perfect...did she? She also likes donuts...but she don't wanna discuss that.

[g666d]

Originally Posted by missparkles

...She also likes donuts...but she don't wanna discuss that.

rofl

[missparkles]

Originally Posted by g666d

rofl

She's still got issues...obviously.
Gotta laugh...sometimes. Who said recovery wuz boring?

Sparkles.

[dyingtomorrow]

Originally Posted by chillinwill

Yeah Red Rock is only 23 and been through an $80,000 4 month inpatient rehab, two 28-day inpatient rehabs, 2 out patient rehabs, a 22 day wilderness trip, and a 5 month stay in a sober living house. Not to mention being on methadone for a while and then Suboxone for about 5 months or so. All of that failed and ended up being a waste of money. All that matters is how determined one is to stay off their drug of choice. Red Rock learned the lessons he needed to in his first rehab but never listened and it never "clicked" even after the last rehab. What clicked for Red Rock was being homeless, living under a bridge, his family didn't want anything to do with him, and then he got charged with a bunch of felonies. Everybody is different and what clicked for Red Rock might not click for someone else.

Damn that's some track record! SWIM's glad you were able to recover chillinwill, and not only that, that you aren't afraid to come here and talk about all your experience and help people - a lot of people seem to hide from the subject after their drug addiction of whatever type. That is not only amazing will power, but just a genuinely good, selfless, compassionate thing to do. So thank you first of all

I guess it's just real anhedonia (for whatever reason), but SWIM felt just as bad before heroin, when he was all successful in law school with a high level job and all the money he needed and a ton of friends; just as bad after being clean for 2 and a half months after the heroin; and just as bad sitting under a bridge in the rain in withdrawals, hungry, cold, begging for food money, living in homeless shelters. The only difference is no one fucks with SWIM at least when he is homeless, and he can sometimes beg up $10 for some heroin and feel good for a change, as opposed to having to be off of it and miserable 24/7. SWIM's ex-gf called last night and was badgering him about why he is on heroin and shit, and basically he told her there is no way he will ever quit, unless something he cannot even fathom happens to him and fundamentally changes him. No idea what that could be. Maybe getting run over by a car and spending 6 months in a hospital or something. Oh wait -nm- I'd just end up with hydromorphone - woohoo. *plan formulating*