Experiences - Friend went totally apeshit on lsd. VERY BAD TRIP.

[Charolastra]

It was his first time doing acid and swim was with him + her boyfriend.

They all did the same amount of acid and we're enjoying it till they got to downtown. As soon as we got there swims friend started acting really weird. He kept on looking back like he was forgetting something and kept on repeating the same thing over and over again. It got to the point where they couldn't keep him in one area. He was running around screaming like a crazy person, trying to kill himself, running into cars, screaming out gibberish, etc. He ended up taking all of his clothes off and wanted to do really disturbing things to himself, like sticking his head through 2 sharp metal bars.

Then he started fainting and his nose started bleeding. He also looked like he was going into cardiac arrest or something.

They ended up calling the ambulance after it got too out of hand.

Swim doesn't understand why something like that would happen. Does it have something to do with psychology?

Reputation Comments on this post:

irresponsible

[sylenth]

that's very disturbing news & sorry to hear about this as it must of been intense for all of the swimmers during this. he should be himself in a few months time from such an experience.

this all could of been avoided as it was very wrong & irresponsible to go in to a busy public place for the first time on lsd amongst lots of cars, people & metal objects in a town environment. smurf has'nt got any definate answers to what lead to this but it sounds like he got paranoid, clostraphobic & anxious which lead to some kind of mental break down, fortunetly it was'nt worse & got himself killed.

there is'nt much info provided to give us any ideas on his psychological background & health.

perhaps he has epelipsy, does he use medication for anything? is there any previous episodes of strange behaviour? how old is this person? what was he repeating over & over? please keep us up to date on his reports from the doctor.

[Panthers007]

Was alcohol involved?

[Desertfox]

Originally Posted by Panthers007

Was alcohol involved?

If panthers didn't already nail it right on the head, how sure is SWIY that it was LSD. SWIM has had that fainting/ bloody nose reaction on mushrooms before, but SWIM attributes this to a high concentration of phenylethylamine inside the shrooms leading to an adverse reaction. But since this was supposedly ellisD then that explanation doesn't fit this situation. The only advice SWIM can give is that next time keep yourselves in a safe personal environment were things like this can't happen. especially when tripping with people you've never done it with before, you may know your reaction to the drug but not theirs.

[nevermindthetemper]

You say it started when he went down town, sylenth is right in saying public, busy places are a bad idea for a first timer on LSD.
However fainting and nose-bleeds is rather bizarre. Some people's bodies react differently to drugs than others, perhaps it did not agree with him. Although LSD is actually not considered dangerous to the body, the things people see when they trip can cause them to hurt themselves. Can you tell us more about the friend? Was he an anxious or depressed type?
I had a friend who had anxiety problems and they preferred to avoid hallucinogenics.

[Mammon]

SWIM had a friend who was always pretty uptight and a bit weird on drugs, but still a nice guy. He took acid at uni (a different one to the one SWIM went to) and it went seriously wrong; he ended up crawling naked across a car park with broken nails. Someone called an ambulance; they took him to hospital and calmed him down. He said it was one of the most horrific nights of his life.

SWIM knows this guy quite well and would say he just doesn't have the personality to be able to handle trips; he's wound too tight. When a person takes acid or shrooms they give up a certain amount of control; some people find this amazingly scary.

Of course, I have no real knowledge of why it went so wrong for your friend. It might be an entirely physical reason. What did he say afterwards?

[Charolastra]

There was no alcohol involved and swim is pretty sure it was acid. Liquid acid actually.

He did about a hit and swim and her boyfriend did 2. Swim doesn't know about her friends background, but he always seemed kinda weird. He likes to repeat things a lot (when he's sober), like he would tell swim that he's at home about 4 times in one conversation not remembering he told her already.

Before they took the acid, swims friend stole his moms debit card and was worried she'd find out. While he was on acid he kept getting up, looking around like he lost something, went through his pockets, took out his moms credit card and yelled out "I FOUND IT" and then he would fall to the ground and kept doing that about 50 times. I got to the point where he was just getting up and fainting 5 seconds later, screaming out "I've completely lost my perception of times and space!" and "Shoot me now!".

He is 19 years old, and sorry.. it wasn't his first time doing acid. Swim thought it was because that's what he told her. But others said that the other time he took acid, he woke up the next day in his bed with his clothes all bloody and bruises everywhere, not remembering what happened.

Swim talked to him today and he said he remembers most of it this time, and that everything kept repeating in his head and he didn't know what was going on.

[Spare Chaynge]

Oh wow this is a classic example of irresponsibility(refraining). Hey remember the last time Swim stuck his fingers in the electrical outlet and he had to go to the hospital.. Maybe it wont happen this time lets do it...

But this is even worse.. way way worse.

Not only did the subject have a previous history of bad reactions on lsd he has what swiy has hinted as a mental disorder.

this Coupled with a public space well gee what could go wrong..

Why Why Why... No more lsd for swims friend. And if swim gave his friend lsd he himself should probably not be using drugs.


Three things that point to NO Lsd.
1.Mental disorders
2.Previous bad experiences.
3.A bad mind set.
4. Public spaces.

these are pretty much a golden rule.... Why anyone would break these is beyond swim.

A nose bleed??? Possibly he injured himself while running about naked.

Swim proposes maybe this was a drug inline with substituted amphetamines? Swim is not a dr but maybe the amphetamine caused hypertension which is know to cause nose bleeds.. any comments on that.. just a theory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substituted_amphetamine

[Charolastra]

Originally Posted by Spare Chaynge

Oh wow this is a classic example of irresponsibility(refraining). Hey remember the last time Swim stuck his fingers in the electrical outlet and he had to go to the hospital.. Maybe it wont happen this time lets do it...

But this is even worse.. way way worse.

Not only did the subject have a previous history of bad reactions on lsd he has what swiy has hinted as a mental disorder.

this Coupled with a public space well gee what could go wrong..

Why Why Why... No more lsd for swims friend. And if swim gave his friend lsd he himself should probably not be using drugs.


Three things that point to NO Lsd.
1.Mental disorders
2.Previous bad experiences.
3.A bad mind set.
4. Public spaces.

these are pretty much a golden rule.... Why anyone would break these is beyond swim.

A nose bleed??? Possibly he injured himself while running about naked.

Swim proposes maybe this was a drug inline with substituted amphetamines? Swim is not a dr but maybe the amphetamine caused hypertension which is know to cause nose bleeds.. any comments on that.. just a theory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substituted_amphetamine

swim didn't give him the drugs and swim found out that he had a bad experience after this happened. swim has not known this person very long before the acid trip.

Charolastra added 42 Minutes and 44 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by CHeDeLiCHeD

SWIM has heard speak of an experience as such first hand. The similarities include repeating phrases, stripping of clothes, flailing around, incognition (saying "what are these words"), and coming and going through the grasp of reality in current stance. My resolve to your question would be that either somehow the hit was overdosed (slight pooling which was dispersed first) OR most likely IMHO he smoked some really good weed in combo giving side effects such as loop thinking which most call paranoia as well on into greater effects that can arise as another realm of experience.

Yeah he did smoke a joint with swims boyfriend, also he did the lsd via I.V.

Reputation Comments on this post:

ignorance

[chillinwill]

Originally Posted by Charolastra

Yeah he did smoke a joint with swims boyfriend, also he did the lsd via I.V.

well that could be the reason right there especially since no one knows if it was pure lsd or it could have been some type of RC

[Songcycle67]

Sometimes when someone takes a larger dose than they're prepared for (or any acid at all in some cases) they can enter what SWIM calls "the loop." This happened to SWIM for small periods of time during his first few encounters with LSD, but for some people it can become the entire trip. I believe it's where the term "hung up" originated. Basically, in SWIM's experience, the person becomes a bit delusional and gets hung up on the same subject. Never reaching any conclusions, just constantly thinking about (and sometimes repeating aloud) the question or the thing that is pre-occupying them. Getting caught in this loop happens to a lot of people during their first times or large doses and, given the setting, it could've made SWIY's friend so out of touch that they became desparate to make it stop (I.E. wanting to bash their brains in, stab themselves, etc.) It's rare, but this does happen with particularly sensitive individuals.

As far as the nose bleed and fainting are concerned, assuming what they took was LSD, I'd say the amount of stress induced from such a breakdown could result in a nosebleed and fainting: especially if the subject was prone to these kinds of things. SWIM has fainted on high doses due to the shock that such amounts give the brain. I'm not sure about cardiac arrest, but I'd speculate that given a sensitive enough subject in the wrong environment the LSD could put a person in a shock-like state that would resemble seizure or cardiac arrest.

I read an article a while back that at doses above 5,000ug 50% of the people involved in a study on high dose LSD experiences immediately fainted and went into seizure-like states due to the amount of disruption the drug caused to the nervous system. The dose was completely non-fatal in all patients and I realize that SWIY's friend didn't take near this amount, but still this shows that if someone is particularly intolerant to the effects of LSD it could engender this kind of reaction.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	great post!
	Maybe
	good reply

[chillinwill]

just cuz its liquid doesn't necessarily mean its Lsd....it could be an RC dissolved into liquid such as some of the DOx chemicals

[Charolastra]

Originally Posted by songcycle67

Sometimes when someone takes a larger dose than they're prepared for (or any acid at all in some cases) they can enter what SWIM calls "the loop." This happened to SWIM for small periods of time during his first few encounters with LSD, but for some people it can become the entire trip. I believe it's where the term "hung up" originated. Basically, in SWIM's experience, the person becomes a bit delusional and gets hung up on the same subject. Never reaching any conclusions, just constantly thinking about (and sometimes repeating aloud) the question or the thing that is pre-occupying them. Getting caught in this loop happens to a lot of people during their first times or large doses and, given the setting, it could've made SWIY's friend so out of touch that they became desparate to make it stop (I.E. wanting to bash their brains in, stab themselves, etc.) It's rare, but this does happen with particularly sensitive individuals.

As far as the nose bleed and fainting are concerned, assuming what they took was LSD, I'd say the amount of stress induced from such a breakdown could result in a nosebleed and fainting: especially if the subject was prone to these kinds of things. SWIM has fainted on high doses due to the shock that such amounts give the brain. I'm not sure about cardiac arrest, but I'd speculate that given a sensitive enough subject in the wrong environment the LSD could put a person in a shock-like state that would resemble seizure or cardiac arrest.

I read an article a while back that at doses above 5,000ug 50% of the people involved in a study on high dose LSD experiences immediately fainted and went into seizure-like states due to the amount of disruption the drug caused to the nervous system. The dose was completely non-fatal in all patients and I realize that SWIY's friend didn't take near this amount, but still this shows that if someone is particularly intolerant to the effects of LSD it could engender this kind of reaction.

Swim is really worried this might happen to her one day. She has taken a max of 1 1/2 hits of pretty good liquid acid (boyfriend thinks it's better compared to what usually goes around here) via I.V. and thinks she can handle more. She reeeeally does not want to end up like her friend.

If swim takes things slowly and takes more acid when she feels she's ready, will it keep her safe from "the loop" and violent behaviour?

Seeing that happen to her friend made swim very, very nervous. She can't stop thinking that it might happen to her or especially her boyfriend (even though he is very experienced with very high doses).

Charolastra added 4 Minutes and 31 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by chillinwill

well that could be the reason right there especially since no one knows if it was pure lsd or it could have been some type of RC

why did it affect him and no one else? (sorry, i dont know a lot about RC's)

[chillinwill]

Originally Posted by Charolastra

Swim is really worried this might happen to her one day. She has taken a max of 1 1/2 hits of pretty good liquid acid (boyfriend thinks it's better compared to what usually goes around here) via I.V. and thinks she can handle more. She reeeeally does not want to end up like her friend.

If swim takes things slowly and takes more acid when she feels she's ready, will it keep her safe from "the loop" and violent behaviour?

Seeing that happen to her friend made swim very, very nervous. She can't stop thinking that it might happen to her or especially her boyfriend (even though he is very experienced with very high doses).

Charolastra added 4 Minutes and 31 Seconds later...



why did it affect him and no one else? (sorry, i dont know a lot about RC's)

well thats why they are called research chemicals as most of the effects are known, but not all the effects and everyone can react differently than others to certain chemicals....i can't say for sure if that was what it was but just throwing that idea out there

[CHeDeLiCHeD]

SWIM has heard speak of an experience as such first hand. The similarities include repeating phrases, stripping of clothes, flailing around, incognition (saying "what are these words"), and coming and going through the grasp of reality in current stance. My resolve to your question would be that either somehow the hit was overdosed (slight pooling which was dispersed first) OR most likely IMHO he smoked some really good weed in combo giving side effects such as loop thinking which most call paranoia as well on into greater effects that can arise as another realm of experience.

Reputation Comments on this post:

YUP

[Wierd Logic]

Some people just aren't cut out for psychedelics, LSD in particular. Somebody's personality can give you a vague idea of whether they should take it or not, but at the end of the day anyone can flip out. Giving someone acid is always a risk, and sometimes not one worth taking.

[Panthers007]

This is so full-blown psychological that it would make a really bad movie: "The Guilty Teens!" with Jack Webb as Sigmund Freud, and Arnold Schwarzenegger as The Mushroom: "I'm going to beat you up."

Sounds to me that this character put himself on the mother of all guilt trips (he stole a debit-card). His defense mechanisms were trying to kick in to deny his guilty conscious - failed in a spectacular way - and he proceeded to punish himself in a truly psychotic fashion. Fantastic! Too bad no one had a camcorder! This diagnosis is so psychological it's hysterical. His mind split down the middle - with neither portion very pleased with the boy, and he went utterly birdhouse.

No more drugs for Junior there. He needs a shrink stat. He's a walking freak-out. And if he doesn't realize this by now, I'd declare him myself.*In this case I'd throw diplomacy out the window and tell him in no uncertain terms: "GET HELP!" What's he going to do next? Kill a puppy and drop some DOI? See if that hurts? Iyiyiyiyiyiyiyiyiyiyiyiyiyiyi!!


* Declare: Tell the authorities you believe this person to be a current threat to himself and others. The authorities then have no legal recourse but to take the person into custody pending a psychiatric evaluation. If said authority does not do so, and the person goes off and kills someone, or themselves, the authority is legally responsible.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	thank swiy thank swiy
	LOL

[Nature Boy]

Sounds like a bit of a nut. Why do people take large doses of psychedelics without at least reading up on what to expect. Depersonalization, no concept of time and space, ego loss etc. are all part of the deal. Without knowing that this is to be expected and in a chaotic environment, of course he freaked out. Poor fool probably thought it would be nice and easy like other psychoactives. Like being tipsy drunk only you're "seeing things". Poor deluded idiot.

[psyche]

Sounds like a bit of a nut. Why do people take large doses of psychedelics without at least reading up on what to expect. Depersonalization, no concept of time and space, ego loss etc. are all part of the deal. Without knowing that this is to be expected and in a chaotic environment, of course he freaked out. Poor fool probably thought it would be nice and easy like other psychoactives. Like being tipsy drunk only you're "seeing things". Poor deluded idiot.

If it was only that, but this fella knew very well what would happen, since he has been dosing himself to disasters before. This is something beyond my comprehension. Why take it again if you find yourself lying bloody on the bed with no recollection on what happened. That's a definition of self-destructiviness.(if that's even a real word lol)

[Greenport]

One has to respect the power such compounds can have on the mind.

[Songcycle67]

The loop isn't necessarily something that happens to all people, and on the few occasions that it has happened to SWIM it only took a few minutes to realize he was caught in auto-repeat and find something else to get into. Violence and self-injury don't normally go hand in hand with LSD, in fact it's extremely extremely rare for someone to become violent.

The biggest concern before taking LSD, as pointed out above, should be mental state. Is SWIY connected to reality? Are they depressed? Do they have any major mental instability?

We're all a little zaney in our own way, but usually people who are somewhere in the middle between tight-laced conservative and raving mad tree person come out of the experience okay. It's people on the extreme ends that end up doing damage to themselves and others, and that goes just as much for people who are work-a-day conservative straight arrows as it does for stark raving mad loonies.

The key is balance. People that are too uptight and connected to reality who take it end up freaking because it's too weird and people who bark at the moon and worship toothpaste who take it end up freaking and getting even more far out.

Whatever SWIY decides to do, just make sure that they're as sure as possible that they don't have any major problems going into the experience and they should come out fine.

Also remember everybody has funny quirks and notions about life, so that shouldn't dissuade them. It's the really radical extremists that cause problems.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good information

[sylenth]

lol. we call it fruity loops. people can over analyze things & it can have very negative effects on them & really spoil the trip, especially the higher the dose. one should'nt even really attempt to speak to each other on very high doses. this kid had it coming, sorry to say...