Needing Info On Subs Vs Methadone...

[Stells]

Hi all.

I'm looking for information on different withdrawal methods, namely Methadone Vs Subutex (Bep-something, i can't pronounce or spell it! ).

I know that you can use on top of Methadone, can you on Subutex?
If you do, what happens? I've been told that it makes you rattle, but how long for ?
How long after taking a dose of Subs would using not make you ill? I know it would depend on the strength of the Subutex, eg:2s or 8s, but just a rough estimate please.

Would a drug team prescribe Subutex if they think that Methadone treatment is working? And, if you switched from weekly Meth pickup to Subbies would you have to start daily pickup again?

Right, i've just about worn out my '?' key, so i'll leave it there! Any information would be much appreciated, cheers.

Reputation Comments on this post:

welcome to D-F please be sure to read our rules and always SWIM (someone who isnt me, u, or anyone on this forum!!)

[piggyinthemiddle]

One can safely use on top of Subutex (Buprenorphine). In simple terms, the Subutex holds on to the receptors in your brain tighter than any other opiates, so using on top will have no effect at all, as the Heroin or whatever , is rendered ineffective as it cannot bind to the receptors. In other words, it's pointless, much as if you had taken naltrexone.

The reverse upshot of this is that if one has a habit and takes Subutex before enough of the gear is out of your system, the Subutex 'kicks off' all the other opiates from the receptors. That can send SWIY into instant withdrawal if one has even a mild habit.

It is generally considered that if someone is going to use Subutex after using Heroin they should leave it AT LEAST 24 hours from their last fix.

As to whether an addiction agency would prescribe subutex if methodone was already working, it depends on the individual. Much as it depends on the individual whether they prefer Methodone or Subutex. I have heard many people who consider Methodone to be an awful drug. Similarly, some swear by Subutex, and others find it doesn't work for them.

Use The Forum Search Engine and you will be able to read the experiences of many users regarding both forms of treatment, and many besides.

SWIY will have to speak to your agency regarding pick up rules, as they all differ and although you can be told about other peoples experiences, the only way SWIY will find out about your treatment programme is to ask them yourself.

Hope this helps, Cheers Piggyinthemiddle.

P.S Welcome to Drugs Forum, have a look at the rules regarding self incrimination and the use of SWIM, a lot of new members get caught out

Reputation Comments on this post:

good explanation of 'science',advised UTFSE/swim,good post.

[Stells]

Thanks for the reply Pigyinthemiddle, it does help quite a bit.

The problem is with SWIMs partner using on top of Methadone. Not regularly (as far as SWIM is aware) but enough to be causing problems, so they think Subbies may be the way forward.

It is generally considered that if you are going to use Subutex after using Heroin you should leave it AT LEAST 24 hours.

Does this work the other way round then? Or do Subbies stick to the receptors longer than gear?

I'll go and have another look round the site, i'll probably be back needing clarification for some things though, coz iz a bit fick!

Thanks again.

Stells added 2 Minutes and 51 Seconds later...

P.s...yeah, i was wondering whether to use the SWIM thing, but seeing as it ain't about me, i didn't think it was necessary...i was wondering whether it was OK saying 'you' though...'tis just meant as a generalisation though!

[piggyinthemiddle]

Originally Posted by Stells

Does this work the other way round then? Or do Subbies stick to the receptors longer than gear?

It's not so much that they stick to the receptors longer, as that Subutex binds 'tighter'. So no,using on top of Subutex will not make one 'sick' it just makes it pointless.

Obviously, there has to be Subutex in your system for them to work though, so if someone were to stop taking them, the effect would eventually wear off.

As for using on top of Methodone, that is a common problem, and can be addressed by using Subutex, as it renders any Heroin (or any other opiate for that matter) ineffective. Also a lot of people have reported that they prefer Subutex because they get more of an opiate 'buzz' from them, or at least more of a sense of general well-being than experienced by methodone users. That alone is enough to help reduce cravings. And combined with the blocking effect makes it an excellent drug for maintenance/management of a habit.

[johnnyyen]

SWIM knows nothing of Subutex as when he was given a script via his CDT he was told that from not they would be scribing Suboxone instead due to reports of Subutex abuse by clients ( selling,snorting and slamming em')..SWIM had found methadone to be useless in his case as he used constantly on top whilst on a Meth script..seeing it just as a solution when times were hard or a 'top up' to his days smack consumption..
SWIM likes Suboxone because,although there is no buzz to them,he knows that their content is specifically designed to block other opiates,thus if SWIM was tempted to buy a bag or two he knows that it really would be like putting £20 down a drain.
SWIM had a very good reason to get clean (custody of his young son) however he (shamefully) admits that if he was still able to get a hit off using a bag then keeping clean would be not quite as easy as it is now..
SWIM knows we are all different and have different motives and pressures in our lives,and that methadone can do the trick for many..however he likes the 'security' of Suboxone's opiate blocker and is happy to vouch for Suboxone as a massive enhancement of his life.