Pharmacology - Sublingual Hydromorphone

[fiveleggedrat]

Is Sublingual Hydromorphone possible? I'm finding conflicting information regarding this.

Any experiences/information?

Making this a thread so it can be archived and found easily through the search engine.

[Alucard]

I know swim wouldn't mind seeing if it is...

[y0ssarianlives]

Lipophilic drugs are absorbed very readily through mucous membranes such as under the tongue, inside of cheeks, and hydrophilic drugs are not. Unfortunately, hydromorphone is a hydrophilic substance so it has poor sublingual bioavailablity. And poor oral bioavailability. Golden rule of taking hydromorphone is for SWIM to shoot it, or for SWIM to give it to an imaginary friend who does shoot it.

[fiveleggedrat]

Ahh, I see. Thank you! Here's a little bit of info Swim found when trying to make sense of what you said. I didn't get it right away

Lipophilicity, fat-liking, refers to the ability of a chemical compound to dissolve in fats, oils, lipids, and non-polar solvents such as hexane or toluene.[1] These non-polar solvents are themselves lipophilic — the axiom that like dissolves like generally holds true. Thus lipophilic substances tend to dissolve in other lipophilic substances, while hydrophilic (water-loving) substances tend to dissolve in water and other hydrophilic substances.
Lipophilicity, hydrophobicity and non-polarity (the latter as used to describe intermolecular interactions and not the separation of charge in dipoles) all essentially describe the same molecular attribute; the terms are often used interchangeably.[citation needed] However, the terms "lipophilic" and "hydrophobic" are not synonymous, as can be seen with silicones, which are hydrophobic but not lipophilic.

Ok, now theoretics: Could one put hydromorphone into a solution or combine with something to permit sublingual or buccal?

I'm asking all this because I'm doing research on alternative modes of use for it. Swim does not use needles, and know the oral for this stuff is a joke. He also knows rectal does not work well for him, and snorting is not preferred.

So far, smoking the pill ground up was a fail. Swim isn't able to extract the little bit he has and smoke it pure either.

[radiometer]

Eddie doesn't do needles, he found (for him) the only useful route of administration for hydromorphone to be intranasal.

I'm positive that some web searching will produce bioavaliability data for all different ROA for hydromorphone.

*edit* found this, cannot verify the source however:

intranasal- 52.4%, Rectal administration 33% ,Oral-30-35%

[thebige]

Hello 5leggedRat.......Yes it comes in a oral form but swim sees oral morphine much more often.And although I don't know the oral bioavailabilty this second(ahhh see above)........you can take Dilaudid sublingualy to bypass(to bloodstream before) the liver.But everyswim seems to like to bang the stuff in their arm.....unfortunently it only has a half-life of 2.3 hours by shot...Swim thinks.....but you people know all this

[fiveleggedrat]

The only reason I ask all the time about methods and bioavailibility is that the chart here is FAR off for Swim, and is almost ALWAYS. Swim's a different cat, for sure.

One day, Swim will post a chart that applies to him so others can see how different it is for Swim.

Thank you all for contributing! Swim will likely not attempt this method anytime soon unless he finds a large supply. Too good to waste.

[jon-q]

Swim can confirm swiyradiometer bioavailability= oral 30-35%,intranasal 52-58%.
swim has no figs for sublingual but it is much higher than oral due to the old first pass thingy-ma-jig.

Sublingual hydromorphone=There is a liquid formulation that is commonly available and RECOMMENDED specifically for this route,All tablets(EX-SR!!!!) can potentially be used in this fashion,although they will dissolve more slowly than purpose made "subligual tablets",Swim could remove coating first by scrapeing or sucking first..

[fiveleggedrat]

Thanks for the info. Swim will attempt sub-l or buccal or similar in the next month for sure.

For Swim, 20mg oral = 4mg intranasal. For sure. More euphoria orally, but more sedation intranasal. That is DEF a bigger change than going from 30% to 50%. Also, rectal for Swim was about equal with intranasal.

[jon-q]

Originally Posted by fiveleggedrat

Thanks for the info. Swim will attempt sub-l or buccal or similar in the next month for sure.

For Swim, 20mg oral = 4mg intranasal. For sure. More euphoria orally, but more sedation intranasal. That is DEF a bigger change than going from 30% to 50%. Also, rectal for Swim was about equal with intranasal.

Don't forget swiy can boost the effects considerably by taking a carbonated drink with the hydro, this helps drive the medication through the stomach wall..This is not just a codeine potentiator...
Also has swiy considerd "nose drops" as an alternative to snorting??

[fiveleggedrat]

Swim has done the carbonated thing with oral, and also with GFJ and various other things. No difference for Swim, it was the same thing.

Nose drops meaning snorting liquid solution or using one of those little squeeze bottles for the nose? Swims done liquid snorting before and it did not work, but not the other one.

Lastly, Swim is interested in trying opioids with a nebulizer once put in a liquid solution. Just thought I'd mention.

[jon-q]

Swim tells me that Nose drops=prepare as if injecting then use pipete or simillar/srynge minus needle....Drop liquid into nose and allow to run down inside the inner nostrils,swiy may want to try a dry run with water,also use as little water as poss for actual drug/run(don't want to be pouring 10ml liguid down your nose!!!?
There are nasal sprays on the market so nebulizer will work very well...

[fiveleggedrat]

jon-g, could Swim take a ground up pill in water and use that in a nebulizer? Can you at least speculate? Swim has one and used to use as a asthmatic as a child.

Swim snorted liquid hydromorphone that he prepared for something, he does not remember, but he fucked it up so he had a plate of water + 4mg hydromorphone. Did not really get much, if anything out if it, especially compared to plain snorting.

[jon-q]

Originally Posted by fiveleggedrat

jon-g, could Swim take a ground up pill in water and use that in a nebulizer? Can you at least speculate? Swim has one and used to use as a asthmatic as a child.

Swim snorted liquid hydromorphone that he prepared for something, he does not remember, but he fucked it up so he had a plate of water + 4mg hydromorphone. Did not really get much, if anything out if it, especially compared to plain snorting.

Swim can only give a quick reply;asumeing swiy can get the particles of the tablet small enough i don't see why not,other than some of the tablet binders may clog..Try a paracetamol tablet or something to see if it will work??