Culture - What is it with Americans and Opiates?

[salviablue]

This is not meant to be in anyway condescending towards Americans. I am genuinely interested in the possible reasons, or if I have somehow totally misunderstood the situation here in the UK (or in USA).

Why is it so sociably acceptable in USA to recreationally use Opium and Heroin? I ask this because over here in the UK the only people that take heroin are (whats collectively known as) smack- (or bag-) heads. It is generally considered (I`ll ignore the mass `proles` view i.e. drugs=dirty) something that WILL get you addicted, WILL kill you much sooner than expected and WILL ruin everyones life that loves you (including your own). You WILL become homeless, spend time in and out, mug people, pinch grannies pension money, steal and sell grandads medals etc. All this from more than one use. (Most people I have known or met that have H-cancer started knowing all this but thinking it wouldnt apply to them!). Smack-heads tend to be, 99% of the time : -
- Heroin addicts
- Homeless
- Alcoholics
- Of poor health
- Moneyless
- Thieves, muggers and scammers (albeit not very good ones)
- IV users thus have HIV, Hep, collapsed veins.
- Seen as sub-human
- Generally violent, untrustworthy and unpleasant individuals

Those users whom have not yet become homeless (unless one has a very well paying job that is v.flexible and undemanding or is rich beyond demand) will become so as personal debts begin to build, there are no personal items left to be sold, friends are alienated by unpaid debts or being stolen from, true crime becomes part of ones life as one begins to associate more and more with `the wrong crowd` (if that not what lead one to heroin in the first place).
This is what I have gleaned from personal experience. I have never even tried heroin but I have known `friends` that have been smackheads (but I never knew at the time). Having said this I have known one person in the past whom had plenty of money, a good high paid job, and managed to juggle being a heroin addict and a worker quite successfully for the time I knew of this person (exception to the rule though i think).
Here in the UK if one does heroin more than once one doesnt talk about it - even to liberally open minded people - and does their best to conceal it.
I have always said and thought that I would try heroin at some point (somewhere it is not illegal ofcourse) but, knowing how addictive my personality is I am now willing not to realise this experiment.


Opium doesnt really feature over here, but it does seem to feature quite a bit in America, the only users over here are (quickly dying off) WWII vets that served in `mesopotamia` or India, and the more `connoisseur` drug user type or herbal medicinist. I just included it for more completeness.

Other opiates also seem to feature quite heavily with Americans. Are they more easily available? Over here were lucky if we get prescribed codeine hydrochlorate!

Ideas?

Reputation Comments on this post:

good debate; got the old blood pumpin..

[guldenat]

To swim's knowledge swiy may have over estimated heroin's being "acceptable". Most people swim knows have never tried nor have any interest in trying heroin, while without batting an eye they will take psychadelics and cannabis. People tend to draw a line with heroin, swim thinks. Too many horror stories and boogey men concerning heroin.

[Burnt]

As someone who has a number of american friends who became hooked on opiates I have some opinions. I think the availability of cheap high quality snortable heroin is one factor plus the availability of prescription opiates. Both are easy ways to get hooked on opiates without immediately being aware of the dangers that await.

I am not sure how the rates compare with other countries however.

[Horiz]

In the UK as you say, we are lucky to get prescribed Codeine, which is very true! Literally the only opiates people get exposed to here is low grade heroin and thus paints a bad picture for all opiates.

[salviablue]

I got the impression of opiate acceptance from Americans I have known/met, forums like these and `trip reports` - heroin, opium, morphine and others seem to feature quite a bit in combinations from americans.
When I say socially acceptable I mean by those more open minded and in the know about `drugs`.

[drug-bot]

Originally Posted by Horiz

In the UK as you say, we are lucky to get prescribed Codeine, which is very true! .

are you serious?, when swim got 1 of his wisdom teeth pulled he got prescribed hydrocodone (vicodin), not the stronges opiate but stil considerably stronger than codeine, and swims experience isnt very unique.


but now about the OP's assertion- swim thinks swiy has the wrong perception of american drug users views on heroin, heroin is very much stigmatized and taboo among drug users and non-users. also considering only about 0.2% (about 3 million people) of americans have ever used heroin so he is hard pressed to see any accuracy in swiys opinion. and as far as addiction goes it is estimated only 25% of those who try heroin become addicts so swiy has very blanket assumptions about addiction rates. the only reason swiy may have noticed more posts about heroin coming from americans is that america has about 5 times the population of the whole uk.

good artical on herion use and use rates- http://www.reason.com/news/show/28809.html

[salviablue]

I very possibly do have a wrong perception about American drug users. That is kind of why I posted this thread, to get the American drug users opinions.
Fair point about the population thing and the addiction rates I`ve got from people I have known/met that have tried/become addicted. Where I work, I come into contact with the homeless alot and I have talked w/them. I find usually if you give them the time of day they often seem friendly enough and often start to impart their history/knowledge of the drug abuse/addiction, usually their `sob story`, - once abuse is admitted, they dont readily admit to heroin, I`ve found.

I think America has more of a crystal meth `scourge` problem where as the UK has more of a heroin `scourge` problem. Crack being prevalent in both (a little more in USA though?).

I wonder what the situation is in other countries?

[drug-bot]

Originally Posted by salviablue

I think America has more of a crystal meth `scourge` problem where as the UK has more of a heroin `scourge` problem. Crack being prevalent in both (a little more in USA though?).

I wonder what the situation is in other countries?

totally depends on the area of the country, crystal meth is only big and prevalent on the west coast and midwest, its virtually unheard of or seen on the east coast. however the eastcoast has the highest rates of heroin use in the country.

[Routemaster Flash]

Originally Posted by drug-bot

also considering only about 0.2% (about 3 million people)

Umm, I think (at least) one of your figures here is wrong, drug-bot: 3 million is about one percent of America's population. Alternatively, 0.2% of the population would be about 600,000 people.

[drug-bot]

Originally Posted by Routemaster Flash

Umm, I think (at least) one of your figures here is wrong, drug-bot: 3 million is about one percent of America's population. Alternatively, 0.2% of the population would be about 600,000 people.

your right it shoulda been .1%, that would have been 3 million people. the population of the usa is about 300 million.


ps- swims math sucks, so if its wrong please correct him.

[jon-q]

Mmmm not to sure how swiy has reached this decision,but in swims opinion swiy has this idea back to front,so to speak..
Let me elaborate a little,swim has the advantage of seeing this debate/question from a few different sides.
Numero-uno;swim is a heroin addict and has been for 14yrs,In general it is true that here in the uk heroin addicts are seen as the scum of the earth and for some this is true,however for a very large number of users (on this occasion i don't have the figures) this is pure fantasy.I would guess that somewhere in the region of 1 in 6 heroin addicts are actualy registered add to that the number of users that are not actualy addicted and you can start to see the numbers quickly adding up.This would suggest that not all H-users are or become scruffy,homeless,thieving scumbags,don't get swim wrong a lot do and many do have money problems,criminal records e.t.c e.t.c.
As far as my impression of america goes(i have visited on many occasions)
they are well and truely paranoid with regards to opiates/opiods,you can't even buy a simple packet of co-codamol tablets without clearance from homeland security(joke)medicaly heroin is a complete non-starter and if there is a shooting in downtown philidelphia you can be sure it's a drug crazed meth/heroin addict who done it,the gov even ask visiting tourists if they have ever been treated for drug addiction before a visa will be granted (no joke)
By contrast the uk has a fairly relaxed attitude to it's opiate/opiod laws many doctors freely prescribe codeine,morphine and methadone not only in regards to pain relief but also in an attempt at harm reduction for using addicts,codeine in small amounts is available OTC,Heroin is obtainable in certain circumstances prescribed by licenced doctors.The state will even pay for addicts to go in to treatment centres or they will give them benefits to help feed there habit.
So in conclusion it is swims opinion that the use of opiates is far more acceptable in the uk than it is in america....

[thebige]

Swim belives that things are the same no matter where you go.And people will try to project a certain image depending on what social class they precive themselves to be in.I belive in Southeat Asia that fathers would more comfortable with their daughters marrying a guy that uses Kratom and not one that uses marijuana(as marijuana users are seen as lazy) swim was told.......Everyone has their darkside....

[salviablue]

Just to make it clear, my info is just from those whom I have met, in regards to heroin users per se. Out of the 30 - 40 heroin users I have met, only two lead lives not centered around, or atleast severely affected by, heroin (since I last met them) and as far as I know at least 14 of them are dead, mostly heroin related). One of those two still used and still had good job, girlfriend, life in general and the other quit (for 5 yrs last known) and was free from all opiate addiction.

It just seems to me, that there is a higher proportion of Americans reporting on the use of opiates over Brits, but there could be numerous different reasons for this. This is from posts and trip reports from various sites that I have read.

From those that became homeless, thieves, mugs, diseased and general scum, I personally knew some of these, inviting them into my home, hanging out lending money and goods to. They gave me no reason to suspect they were using, none of the "tell tale signs" (like 666 appearing on their forehead!). Things started going missing, little things at first, like a watch or radio or some cd`s, `just my memory``smoking too much`. Then money stops getting repaid, excuse after excuse. They then seem to become the most unfortunate unlucky people ever. Then I find out about the heroin use, put 2 + 2 together and realise where all my stuff went (that stack of cd`s I saw at the market really were mine etc.!). Then big hard bastards turn up at your door asking where x is, barge in to make sure your not hiding x, then leave (that actually only happened the once, but scary enough).
This has happened to me on three separate occasions with unrelated people/groups of people. What I found personally is if you let a heroin addict into your home often enough, you`ll notice things vanishing over the "normal" rate.

I have only had bad experiences with heroin addicts, but I understand that not all heroin addicts are like that. Maybe its only the `bad` ones that reveal their heroin use.

As I understand it alcohol and heroin are the homeless drugs of choice for cheap oblivion rendering and extreme nothing-can-bother-me-ness respectively, for obvious reasons. Some of the more antisocial vagrants are just alcoholics where as some of the heroin addicts (usually alcoholics too) are no real social problem at all. Its just in my personal experience that my `opinion` on heroin use/addiction etc. is the norm rather than exception.

I have not really looked into figures or anything, or even graced serious research reports into this kind of thing. Thankyou for the link drug-bot, it seems from reading that, heroin is one of those that slipped through my net of reasonability, and instead stuck to some of the stains remaining from childhood propaganda. This post only came about because I have been reading alot of trip reports lately and looking at popular discussion threads at various forums and this popped into my head.

I am still sceptical at this time, but these responses have also piqued my interest some more over the whole social view of heroin vs actual facts around heroin use. Besides, I like to be told I`m wrong from time to time ;>, reminds me its been too long since my last ego squashing.

[jon-q]

Swiy is missing swims point,go back to the figures i dont know if these are anywhere near correct although i will try to find out,but my point is there are many more heroin addicts/users that we don't know about.It's a bit like the fact/myth?? that 1-10 or is it 1-5 men are gay!so in a room with 50 guys in it on average 5 will be gay but how many will own up to it.The heroin addicts that are known/registerd mostly are thieving scum bags and many homeless people are heroin addicts,they will also have broken relationships or have sufferd abuse e.t.c. but you don't say being abused will make you homeless!
Swim has worked for 13.5yrs out of 14yrs as an addict,i have stole of family briefly but that was when swim was also a crack addict(4yrs) heroin has destroyed many good things in my life and it does control my life,but i do not class myself as a junkie scum bag..i own my own house and look after my elderly parent which is more than many "normal folk do"
Regards swim....Q

[salviablue]

I dont know, although if I am honest, heroin and crack are two things I know I dont have such an open mind about. Crack from just pure propaganda, but views on heroin are from my limited experience (in comparison to those frequenting this forum) with its users. I am actually hoping that my prejudice will be smashed and that my experiences will prove to be the exception.

I accept that most of the known heroin addicts are out and out smack head scum and that we likely dont even know the half of the real heroin user numbers, whom are possibly nothing like the scum.

I am also aware that it is not the drug per se that induces "smackheadism" and not too long ago I read about some of the Swiss` excellent attempts at reducing the antisocial effects of herion use/abuse.

If SWIY can hold down a job and regularly visit `mother superior` then all credit due and I do sincerely wish you all the best in escalation prevention. I also sincerely wish you the strength not to return to the crack. Personally I would not touch the stuff knowing how alcohol could very easily become a problem (been on the verge for years) - now just occaisional use but life is relatively happy now (still fair shit, but much better than it used to be - or so percieved).

Reputation Comments on this post:

Some great posts bud. Good to see an amiable and open minded fellow occasionally.

[jon-q]

Thanks.
Swim thankfully ridded himself of his crack addiction about 7yrs ago and as never smoked a stone scince,it took being admitted into detox/rehab to achieve this and i am sure had this not been the case swim would indeed have become one of those unfortunate statistics.
Swims time in detox/rehab didn't however cure him of his heroin addiction, it did manage to stop swim injecting heroin and for this i am thankfull.
Swim does not have regular visits to "mother superior" this is a daily relationship and as been as said for forteen years,apart from 5.5 weeks in rehab, 6-7 one week holidays and the odd 24-36hr waits to score,this has been a fully commited partnership.
Over the last 12-18months swim as reduced his habit and curently smokes between 7-8 grams per week he also still injects poss 1-3 times per month,i do not think this is in any way clever or heroic of him and i pray each night that swim will find an end to this living nightmare.
I have no desire to stick up for other heroin users,i am simply pointing out that not all heroin addicts/users should be tared with the same brush..
Under and in swim....Q

Reputation Comments on this post:

great exchange.

[salviablue]

not all heroin addicts/users should be tared with the same brush..

Very true, I did not wish offend those like you (or you) and I am sorry if I did.
Cleary I am in need of more factuallity on this subject (and indeed many others!).

[BuffaloBoobs]

Originally Posted by guldenat

To swim's knowledge swiy may have over estimated heroin's being "acceptable". Most people swim knows have never tried nor have any interest in trying heroin, while without batting an eye they will take psychedelics and cannabis. People tend to draw a line with heroin, swim thinks. Too many horror stories and boogey men concerning heroin.

This. Exactly this. Heroin is viewed as about the lowest of the low, in the area that swim sleeps. Well, crack, meth and heroin are viewed about equally around his parts. But his point is that people around him are fairly open-minded about nearly any drug use except those three.
Coke is quite acceptable. Loads of folks use amphetamine (especially Adderall). Psychedelics are always desirable.

but never that death smack!

[elpatto]

I can tell you that there is a rather large problem with opiates, meds being abused specifically, in the USA. I guess it comes from the avaliablility of such meds, mixed with some sort of cultural dependance on ineffective cures. I have a look in my grandma's medicine cabinet for a bit of a laugh sometimes, although it is a bit upsetting.

SWIM I guess is the variance in statistics. He uses heroin regularly enough, like 1ce or 2ce a month. Has so for the last 2 years or so, sometimes it is alot more sometimes like not for a few months. Then again he is neither naturally British or American (Not that that is particularly relevant outside this thread).

I break it down into 3 general types of H users.

Junkees- will do ANYTHING for a hit, real self pitying motherfuckers. Normaly the street types you were talking about.It seems all they think/care about.

Addicts- People who are addicted to heroin but are still "regular" enough people, normaly have somewhat half decent life dispite the selfdestructive nature of their vice.

Once or twicer's- People that try heroin once or twice, sometimes more but it is just brought down to trying it not using it. These people are normaly real into drug culture anyway and tend to try everythin they can get their hands on.

[tryptamaster]

haha where siwm is in the states (souteast) heroin is as dirty as meth. swim doesnt think opiate sue is acceted at al..

[chillinwill]

Heroin is looked down upon where SWIM lives and is for the most part looked down upon even harder than crack or meth probably cuz of the lifestyle that h addicts normally live

[jon-q]

One other little point of intrest.
Americans as a rule are much more out spoken than us brits,swim dosen't mean that in a bad way they just seem to have more of a zest for life.
A good example of this is on the Tv,just watch/listen to an interveiw on the news with a member of the public,with an american they are very clear well spoken and seem quite happy to do the interview,then watch a brit;they tend to give one line replys,be down beat and genraly look like they are having a very akward time.so it dosen't suprise swim that here on DF the american members are more willing to openly talk about there or there freinds experiences with opiates..

[fiveleggedrat]

Sorry, but in Swim's state, where heroin is not hard to find, opiate users often are considered lower than crack heads. When Swim would talk drugs to the average person, more would be shocked over hearing about heroin, even opposed to meth and crack.

[thebige]

Damn Americans,If you ask me they are gonna cause a global economic colapse.

[jon-q]

Originally Posted by fiveleggedrat

Sorry, but in Swim's state, where heroin is not hard to find, opiate users often are considered lower than crack heads. When Swim would talk drugs to the average person, more would be shocked over hearing about heroin, even opposed to meth and crack.

Kind of you to join in swiyfiveleggedrat
Swim thought you'd have had way more to say about this subject...
P.s sorry to hear about the hydro"DISASTER"? wink,wink

jon-q added 1 Minutes and 4 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by thebige

Damn Americans,If you ask me they are gonna cause a global economic colapse.

I thought they all ready did!!!!!!!!!!!