Health - Swim is suffering! Help

[poison1981]

Swim takes prozac for years but swim is still suffering bad depression/anxiety!

Kratom and Kava have helped swim so much on those horror days! BUt swim wants to be healthy and happy swim doesnt want to get addicted to them and needs an alternative??

Can anyone here help swim? Swim Does NOT want to take any type of drug that is unhealthy as swim wants to enjoy life and live long and stay beautiful!~ Thanks so much!

[podge]

Most drugs have side effects with prolonged use. The best advice i can give for depression without the use of drugs is exercise. No joke, do some research into the matter and you will be surprised. Especially as swiy wants to live long and stay beautiful.

[chillinwill]

agreed! exercise helps release endorphins and such....i have been exercising almost daily for many years now and i swear by it that it helps me with my depression and I always feel good after a good workout

[poison1981]

I have been exercising for years I am a very skinny fit person and yes i take may healthy vitamins and suppliments also OK ? :P

I have been in therapy for 6 years I have an amazing shrink

[infekt]

hmmm..different strokes for different folks, right?

Maybe meditation would help? Deep trance states? I think the cause of depression lies in the ego. Dissolve the ego. Just my 2 cents..

[Lou1024]

Does swiy take fish oil supplement? Swim took them for a few months when he was depressed and it apparently actually did some good. Swim was very impressed. Also, If swim is having an especially bad day, swim has found that Damiana has the ability to nullify; Not raise the mood, but simply nulllify. Good Luck.

[otihonuray]

Two weeks later, I'm registered. I barely have enough motivation to make this post now... BUT I do.

anyway... Yeah. I have several friends who happen to be bipolar or have depression. They all follow the same pattern that usually takes several years to play out... but it really is uncanny how it consistently does. But, anyway...

I think swiy is nearing the beginning of actually getting over depression/bipolar disorder. Well, not "getting over," as that implies a cure, but managing it well and productively.

I know this is a drugs forum. I've lurked here many times out of curiosity, and it is all just amazing to me. Though my profession is not related, it is a hobby of mine to learn about the world around me, and especially plants (and their many uses... placebo or not). Personally, I have nothing against people using them for recreational purposes (or other substances, for that matter). In my opinion, a person has an inalienable right to put into their body whatever they so desire, so long as that person does not infringe on others' rights in so doing. I just want to let swiy know where I'm coming from -- that I'm not some anti-drug bible-thumper -- before saying what I'm about to say.

After knowing several (~12) people over the course of my life in situations such as swiy's, I've learned a lot. The most important thing is that, as unsavory as it may sound, for people with unipolar depression, bipolar disorder, or really any serious mental issues, recreational drugs and/or self-medication are the last thing that they need in their life. The temporary "relief" they provide only makes troubles worse. They delay the inevitable. This is a fact... a law. It never changes, and there are no exceptions. Usually there is a point (like where you are now) when they are finally realizing this, and this is really the first time it is appropriate to talk about it (people have a tendency to get quite defensive about it...). It is not a personal attack. It does not mean the person made a stupid decision.. it is a perfectly normal one, and one that is commonly gone through on the path to a long-term healthy lifestyle.

In my opinion, the best thing for swiy at this point would be to completely stop self-medication and recreational use of drugs (legal or not). They are holding swiy back. Swim cannot make any real progress until swim cuts out any and all drugs (other than those prescribed by doctors, of course).

In general, take out the 'bad' (non-productive influences/things), and replace them with the 'good'.

Good: Excercise. Overall, this is just as important as cutting out the drugs (eg very). Check out some other forums on fitness and/or strength-training. Google some tips and tutorials for whatever level swiy considers swiy. If it has been a while, start small. Don't overtrain, also... take it slow. Do aerobic (running, etc.) and anaerobic (strength-training) exercises. Most people I know alternate daily, though there are many different combinations.

Diet. A good diet is important. Just so there is no confusion (there always is, with the horrendous journalists we have these days), a diet is what you eat. Some diets are created for the purpose of losing weight... that is just one genre of diets. these, by definition, are not sustainable. So, a sustainable, healthy diet is needed. The specifics really depend on the person. There are lots of good sources online. Googling around a bit should do fine.

I recommend meditation as well. There are a couple good books about meditation exercises and motivation for self-actualization (in other words, meditation with the religion stripped off of it) that I can recommend: "What to Say When You Talk to Yourself," "Psycho-Cybernetics." Both have sold millions and are very good in my opinion.

People are also (or can be) important. What is swiy interested in? Lots of people stay socially healthy by going to church. Others need to find other ways to spend time with groups of people on a regular basis. Clubs, groups, etc. I'm not saying swiy doesn't, I'm just saying that is is one aspect that should be addressed in a healthy lifestyle.

There are lots of other specifics.. but the main thing is, the issue is neither simple nor temporary, and the tools one uses to address the issue should reflect that. In fact, if it does not, it simply perpetuates the cycle.

In Germany they say there is not a poor person who has not helped himself to be so. (brings back memories of basic integer math haha). They are a bit blunt... but they have to be to keep people from being lazy. They must actively attack their problems, not just give up and accept defeat. The bluntness points out that the lack of doing productive/proactive things is just as bad as doing counter-productive things. And focusing on the one end is half the battle at best.

Issues like these must be attacked physically and mentally (with BOTH clarity and focus). Physically as in fitness, a good diet, and a lack of drugs (physiological aspects), (Sorry about the drugs... it just cannot be a part of any serious recovery) and mentally as in meditation, social welbeing, purpose, and lack of drugs (mental aspects).

Where lots of people mess up is only attacking certain parts of that. They inevitably fail. "Man cannot live on bread alone." It takes a full-spectrum, sustainable approach to have any meaningful improvement.

Sustainability is the key term. And yeah, it cannot be cured. But it can sure be helped a lot (managed). It levels the highs, and softens the lows (or either, whatever the case may be). It also helps manage/shorten the length of episodes.

And if swiy isn't willing to do those things (especially cut out the drugs), I hope swiy enjoys his depression...

One thing that has annoyed me since I started lurking this site... Honestly... swim? swiy? Does anyone honestly think that would work on anyone over the age of five? (rhetorical question) Hypothetical situations (names at least?), ok. But that is just stupid. Still, this is just my opinion, and it would probably be best to not reply to this part at all. (In fact, don't.) Just take it or leave it.

*delves back into the abyss from whence it came*

[Grabnar]

swim has been using cannabis as an anti depressant for years , if other methods worked they would be used , swim agrees most drugs add to anxiety and stress, some for weeks or more after use, exercise is great but cannabis is better in swims world because he has adverse effects to a lot of prescription drugs and its very hard to exercise when swim don't want to get out of bed! Self medication is not all bad, but it requires knowing what the problem is and how to treat it in the most effective and least harmful manner. The books mentioned above can be very helpful as well it depends on the individual. There are a variety of plants that can be used to relieve depression and anxiety , the search engine will provide info. Its really up to Swiy how to deal with swiys mind. If swiy is severely unstable/suicidal i would reccomend not using any mind altering substances. For above poster, Swim and Swiy are there to avoid self incrimination , which many would obviously do on this site (and still do anyway) i suggest you go visit the recovery forum as from your post it looks as you could be of some use there.

[Lady Codone]

I feel your pain. SWIM's been on Prozac and other various SSRIs, tricyclics, and antipsychotics for 9 years and feels absolutely NO improvement in things like mood, motivation, energy, anxiety levels, or anything else related to "depression". Many people share your sentiments on this; you're not alone. That's because antidepressants only correct ONE type of brain dysfunction: neurotransmitter deficiency. There are many other causes of depression, such as endogenous opiate (endorphin/enkephalin) deficiency, nutrient deficiency, and too many others to list that aren't affected in the least by SSRIs.

As for a solution, any substance used to medicate a mental/emotional/physical problem has the potential for habituation, but some are less damaging than others. For instance, dependence on stimulants like Adderall or Ritalin is going to be more physically/mentally harmful over the long term than dependence on marijuana, opiates (pure, without adulterants or APAP/NSAIDs), or many herbal remedies due to its negative effects on the heart, mind, and metabolism.

It's all about weighing the risks and benefits: is it better to toe the line of addiction and get relief of stressful symptoms, or to suffer life-altering symptoms and avoid the possibility of overusing a substance? In other words, if you find something that's effective and relatively benign as far as long-term effects on the body goes, it deserves careful consideration as a treatment for your condition (despite what the media tells us about "self medicating" and such). Chronic stress IS a killer, causing everything from lowered immune function and heart strain to premature aging and death.

At the same time, substances aren't the only option for treating mental illnesses. Far from it. The role of diet, exercise, relaxation/sleep, and positive life changes is WAY underestimated in today's overmedicated society. Nutrient deficiencies, food allergies and sensitivities, hormonal imbalances, blood sugar problems, thyroid dysfunction, anemia, chronic fatigue syndrome, candida albicans overgrowth, sleep disorders, and a number of other physical conditions present with the same exact symptoms as "clinical depression", so you'd do well to research these conditions as a possible physical cause of your depression/anxiety. You can't treat the problem without understanding the cause, and the vague label of "depression" always deserves further research.

Best of luck to you.

[Potter]

You do understand that psych meds do not cure the problem. Imagine that your in a sea of muck, the meds will give you a stepping stone so it's no longer dragging you down, but unless you take the next step, your still in muck. If you don't change your bad habits, bad living situation, if you don't go through and examine your problems (alone or in therapy), you simply won't get better.

So what else are you doing to get better?

The only thing the Doktor can recommend chemically is DMT, even a single, low level, non-breakthrough dose can have long term mood elevating effects, maybe 6 weeks or so. Of course if you haven't fixed things by then...

So get some exercise, new friends, better job, hobbies. Leave the house and play in the sun, go see concerts, get back to school, buy a bike and ride every day, get away from the internet, away from people who tell you it's to to wallow in depression, stay away from support groups (which IMHO do not do anything to make people better by and large)