USA - US to consider lift ban on federal money for Syringe Exchange Programs.

[Figaro]

On Federal Funding Syringe Programs
You can go to the harm reduction coaltion site http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizations/HRC/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=25278
or this other site.
http://capwiz.com/aac/issues/alert/?alertid=11709611 this act will allow Federal Money to be use in Syringe programs
This website will sent a letter to your Federal Congress Representative, but also if you know others who may be interested helping you can send them the information so they can help too. Please help use win and stop the spread of HIV and Hepatitis.


Representative Jose Serrano, from New York has designed HR6680 to lift the ban on US federal money to be use on Syringe Exchange Program. So far there are 44 co sponsors.


This is from Congressman Jose Serranos site. Pueto Ricans know what they need.

http://serrano.house.gov/PressRelease.aspx?NewsID=1581


This last one is from news of last year promoting Serrano to do that.
http://www.drugpolicy.org/news/press...e/pr122607.cfm

Figaro added 24 Minutes and 2 Seconds later...

You guys do me a favor and send a letter to Representative Jose Serrano from New York for introducing this legislation into the United States House of Representatives.


It is possibly the first Harm Reduction bill introduced in the United States government since Nixon and then Ragen started the War on Drugs. You guys do not know what this could mean for the future. We might beging to have some advocates in the US Government



jserrano@mail.house.gov

Reputation Comments on this post:

Even though we disagree this is a morally good thing and you definitely know your shit.

[Nacho]

Do we really have any more money to spend? (to put us more in debt)




Edit: I did it anyways.

[Sitbcknchill]

I think it is about time drug users take responsibility for themselves. People here don't seem to want to take responsibility for shit these days and wants everyone else to bail them out. We are about to spend 700 billion (of which we don't have to begin with) to bail out the stock market.

You can help stop the spread of HIV and Hepatitis by acting responsibly.

[Nacho]

Originally Posted by Sitbcknchill

I think it is about time drug users take responsibility for themselves. People here don't seem to want to take responsibility for shit these days and wants everyone else to bail them out. We are about to spent 700 billion (of which we don't have to begin with) to bail out the stock market.

You can help stop the spread of HIV and Hepatitis by acting responsibly.

I agree with this as well. Death due to drugs in all areas (not just how they were taken) would be a lot lower if more people used them responsibly.

[Figaro]

Originally Posted by Sitbcknchill

I think it is about time drug users take responsibility for themselves. People here don't seem to want to take responsibility for shit these days and wants everyone else to bail them out. We are about to spend 700 billion (of which we don't have to begin with) to bail out the stock market.

You can help stop the spread of HIV and Hepatitis by acting responsibly.

I don't have any problem with acting responsibly. If you do not know, responsibility, then the GOVERNMENT most stop playing bad guy by removing the DRUG Paraphenely Law. I do not mind buying my own syringe, if they allow me to buy it from the pharmacy without a prescription. BUT THEY intimidate my pharmaciest in stead.

NOw tell me what other responsibility are we talking about.

Figaro added 325 Minutes and 0 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by Nacho

I agree with this as well. Death due to drugs in all areas (not just how they were taken) would be a lot lower if more people used them responsibly.

To act responsibly one first has to have information. If you have not noticed. Due to this War on Drugs, there is quite a bit of misinformation, and censorship. At best if people do not have the information to act responsibly. How do you expect people to survive withoout the appropriate information nor clean syringes because the US local government have Drug Paraphenelia laws thatwill prohibit the establishment of such programs?. Neither the purchase of a syhringe at a pharmacy without a prescription?

Figaro added 2 Minutes and 22 Seconds later...

Please do send a letter to your congressman and pass this information arround. It is just way to important. We are talking about peoples lives and health.

[Sitbcknchill]

Originally Posted by Figaro

I don't have any problem with acting responsibly. If you do not know, responsibility, then the GOVERNMENT most stop playing bad guy by removing the DRUG Paraphenely Law. I do not mind buying my own syringe, if they allow me to buy it from the pharmacy without a prescription. BUT THEY intimidate my pharmaciest in stead.

NOw tell me what other responsibility are we talking about.

Amending the drug paraphernalia laws to make users able to buy syringes from pharmacies is one thing (which in most states is legal). I have absolutely no problem with that. Having federally funded exchange programs is another and I do have a problem with it. I have a huge problem with people being able to get their syringes to get high, off of my dollar.

The responsibility I am talking about is personal responsibility. Users know that they shouldn't share needles, they are very aware of what the risks are to that and they could very well spread/contract disease. It is not the governments responsibility to provide recreational users with drug paraphernalia. If you are a true junkie you need help and not help via providing you with paraphernalia to continue your habit and be a drain on society. All you want to seem to think about is how we can make it easier for junkies to get off.

To act responsibly one first has to have information. If you have not noticed. Due to this War on Drugs, there is quite a bit of misinformation, and censorship. At best if people do not have the information to act responsibly. How do you expect people to survive withoout the appropriate information nor clean syringes because the US local government have Drug Paraphenelia laws that will prohibit the establishment of such programs?. Neither the purchase of a syhringe at a pharmacy without a prescription?

Regardless of the governments stance on drugs there is plenty of information out there to assist a user in making the right decisions. The internet is full of good information on the subject matter. It is a work in progress but slowly the tide is turning on being able to find good useful information regarding substance use. Blaming the government for an individuals reckless behavior is nonsense though.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good point about tax dollar

[Nacho]

Originally Posted by Figaro

To act responsibly one first has to have information. If you have not noticed. Due to this War on Drugs, there is quite a bit of misinformation, and censorship. At best if people do not have the information to act responsibly. How do you expect people to survive withoout the appropriate information nor clean syringes because the US local government have Drug Paraphenelia laws thatwill prohibit the establishment of such programs?. Neither the purchase of a syhringe at a pharmacy without a prescription?

Figaro added 2 Minutes and 22 Seconds later...

Please do send a letter to your congressman and pass this information arround. It is just way to important. We are talking about peoples lives and health.

We have Erowid and DF to help us out. Anyone that knows anything should know not to share a needle. If you can't get a needle, maybe you shouldn't use one from someone else? I don't see how the laws would affect anything. If you can get ahold of the junk to shoot up with, you should be able to get ahold of a sterile syringe, no? You're right about us talking about "lives and health". Why would people put their lives at great risk over a high?... and then blame the government and ask for access to needles? I think that's worse than the government in the first place.

[Figaro]

Originally Posted by Nacho

We have Erowid and DF to help us out. Anyone that knows anything should know not to share a needle. If you can't get a needle, maybe you shouldn't use one from someone else? I don't see how the laws would affect anything. If you can get ahold of the junk to shoot up with, you should be able to get ahold of a sterile syringe, no?

Originally Posted by Nacho

NOT THAT EASY MY FRIEND, you can get the dope a lot easier than you can get a syringe. Or you do not know that? You're right about us talking about "lives and health". Why would people put their lives at great risk over a high?... and then blame the government and ask for access to needles? I think that's worse than the government in the first place.

Boy I tell you, you are one of the one that really want to be right! Eorwid and DF are internet web site, correct? You do not understand that you and I are pretty sophisticated kind of people. We are extremely small minority. If you have not notice it. Look again.

You go ahead and make a calculation and you tell me how many people you know that go to a dope hole in one of the inner city or South Africa or Thailand, or even Red China or Russia. And you tell me, how many of those people do you think have any idea that the internet exist? Or care? or worse how to use it. Some of them do not even know that there is such a thing as AIDS. They have a vague idea, I am telling you very vague.

Obviously, you have not sat down and talk to an all-out junky in the street and tell me the degree of sophistication you think those guys have??....

Listen the provef, is in the pudin. If 1 out 5 junkies worldwide has a good possibility of having aids. Most of them do not know they have it. You really think those people went out and got HIV/AIDS on purpose?"? Really? Do a little better thinking than you are doing................................ Start noticing that there is a lot of information that is missing out of your own thinking about this issue. Because if you do not notice this. We are wasting our time having this conversation..... You are going to continue to talk about this like you think that you are in a competition for a debate team. And that is not what this is all about...

You are talking right now from your own personal perspective and you think that most junkies in the street are like you. An intellectual snob. You think everyone should be an intellectual snob like you and that they are out there trying to get information and they are trying to find out information about the War on Drugs and how to shut dope better, or have crack last longer etc etc etc...... Most people are not like that. Really, in this case, and in the world of non-sophistication and non-intellectual snobbery one has to kind of chew the information to them (I feel like I am doing it right now for you).


If you look at it clearly, you would understand that most of those junkies in the streets rarely open the newspaper nor know that AIDS has any thing to do with them........ I talk with them, how many of them do you think are like you and me and every body else in this message board? Huh?

I am telling you. People are not like you and me and every one else in this message board. People for the most part are unsophisticated, they do very little reading, if they can read at the 8th grade level, they are lucky. They rarely know there is such thing as cretical thinking. They probably don’t even know there is such thing as CNN or any other news network etc.


The law does make a different a lot of difference......AND yes I blame the government for allowing the spread of AIDS amongst this population. We have know for 20+ years, that Syringe Programs significantly reduces the spread of AIDS, it is extremely effective, that it does not increase the use of drugs, nor bring any new heroin users to use heroin. In essence it does not promote drug use outside the people who are already using heroin as an addiction....
Still, it has taken more than 20 years an only 19 States out of 50 and 3 Territories, allow for the Syringe Programs to exist and just now one very valiant Congress Representative in the US House of Representative Jose Serrano and 44 (out of thousands) other congresspersons are willing to cosponsor bill HR6680, and are willing and admit that we need to promote more Syringe Exchange Programs...... And even under these new conditions, there still going to be a lot of residence by local government and police law enforcement, and criminal justice systems that are going to say NO, we will not allow Syringe Exchange Programs in our community. Even if it does save lives and allow people to live much healthy lives (Case in point, the State of Texas has had a Syringe Exchange program until last week, and the state prosecution has taken them to court). I suppose you do not think this has any thing to do with government?


If you can’t see it, you are really being stubborn. If you have a Paraphernalia Law (which are fairly reason in the past 10 or 20 years, maybe a little longer) that says that for a person to have a syringe in their possession they most have a prescription. OR we will through you in jail or prison. You will note there is very little access to clean needles syringes. You really do not know how difficult it is on the street to get a clean brand new set of works, do you? You do not seem to know much about shooting dope. Or you have a cousin or a relative with diabetes that can provide you with boxes of clean and brand new set of works when ever you want one or you can steal them from them. There are little possibilities and availability of clean set of works out on the streets. While anyone can score dope with in minutes if you know where to go. It will take you hours to find a set of clean works. Unless of course you are in San Francisco, and someone is willing to sell you one of their clean syringes form the exchange,Trust me, I know. Miami, Florida for one example, if you are a junky, you get your dope in one corner, and then walk many blocks and go perhaps to two, three or many more locations who you might have bought a syringe at before. If you cann't find one, then you will need to use an old one you have or ask someone to let them use their. Seen it many many times. Not a good feeling to see them do it, even though I am trying to explain to them the bad idea and watch them, as they look at me with their sick sense of withdrawal in their eyes as if they do not heard me. These gets repeated maybe a few hundred times a day, where I am not present. While I have no syringes to provide them..... Once in a while someone gets some donated syringes or have the ability to get some, but these are rare and far between. At the same time they have to watch over the shoulders to make sure that some heat (and I do not mean the Miami basketball team) may be coming around the corner and catch them in the act. But I suppose that is not the government neither or is it? and cops do not get any orders from higher government officials. They insist that we are enabling addiction. and yes I suppose we are, but some how, when we are talking about the difference between health, life, and arrest, it seems like an arrest is all worthwhile, but who the hell want to get arrested when you have no victim that you have hurt. One goes to jail, and one might end up being a victim while you are inside as there is a bit of predatory mentality inside with the new roomates one inherit, without much choice.

Because of the Drug Paraphernalia Laws. This is not like a pipe, or a bong, that you can still buy one as long as you do not tell the sales lady that you are going to buy it so you can smoke some crack, or whatever illegal drug you can smoke with them. You can still go to a head shop and buy these pipes when ever you want. AS long as you do not ask stupid question and say something about buying them to use illegal drugs with them......... In fact most head shops or sales advertising will warn you. "Don't say you are going to use it for illegal purposes, or we will not sell it to you”. They will not sell you the pipe if you talk stupid.......... You also can not go to a head shop and see a set of golden plated glass and sterile syringe from a head shop, my man!!! One can do it in the 60s, but not today. You still have to go to a pharmacy and buy a regular 100cc syringe and them only with a prescription. YOU do not need a prescription to buy a pipe or a glass tube..........It is not the same thing when it comes to attempting to get a new set of clean works. It is truly not the same. You are not thinking straight. And yes the governments are to be blame for spreading the aids virus in this regard. They have cruel laws that are bound to make people sick and their health worse, all in the name of the old Mighty Moral War on Drugs..... And if you are anything like Judge Judy, you wish they will "all get dirty needles so they can die". Yes, she said exactly that in 1998. Or do you need a link for you to believe me? Judges, do they have any thing to do with government? y think so, they interpret the laws of this land. Hopefully, it will not take another 20 years to convince your local government and "justice system" (some how justice does not sound quite right) that Syringe Exchange does save lives etc etc etc.



If you have ever been to many AIDS conferences and mainstream, Public Health organization workshop or convention. Junkies are in the bottom of the barrel. They do not think much about them. They know that Syringe Exchange would be a good thing, but to talk any further about what needs to get done is beyond their edge of knowleadge. They are truly and totally clue less, much clue less than you. AND YOU ARE PRETTY CLUE LESS about this issue. I am telling you. YOU ARE REALLY OUT THERE man; you really have no idea what you are talking about. You are talking like you and Jorge W. Bush most have graduated from he same high school academy. Because you know little about the inner city and what goes on outside your suburban home in and comfortable job in a big corporation..... You, who is suppose to be sophisticated about drugs and have your Erowid and DF website to help you, do not know much about what it takes, nor why? nor what all of the issues are.

You have no idea about how much misinformation and how much censorship is out there, out on the mainstream............. You really do not know much about any thing that would be instrumental about resolving a problem like the AIDS epidemic. The problem is that you are worse than the see no evil, hear no evil, talk no evil. YOU really do not know. But what is even worse it that there is a lot of information that you really doesn’t even know that you do not know. And what you don't know, that you do not know is the information that would be required to think straight about this problem.

Although you think your opinion matter in this issue. I am not talking about opinions my man. I am talking about 20 or more years of scientific research, and you are really making an Asno of yourself................... I am not saying it like an insult........................... I am truly not trying to insult you although you might get all sensitive and shit. YOU are better off saying I really do not know what to do about this, rather than have an opinion from which you have nothing to back up. You do not even have a political argument that is worthwhile considering. Except that you do not think that the government has anything to do with it. and the governments do have all to do with it. You just do not even notice it or know it; the government has EVERY thing to do with it. It is the law that keeps it from becoming a reality. The government's reality is oriented to efforcement, war and so on.

I wouldn't have any problems if the government just stay away from Paraphernalia Laws and just simply drop those laws....... That way people can go to a pharmacy and buy a clean syringe from a pharmacy or even a Vending Machine, and puff, most likely, we resolve immediately half of the problem. But I do think that there is so much damage that already being done those programs, mainly about HIV testing and treatment will need to be available if we are going to save some lives and stop the spread of AIDS. The syringe exchange will be the tool by which most of this program can be started. And so that you will not get AIDS yourself one day. I do not think you understand that we are all at risk while there still some people out in significant numbers that have AIDS and Hepatitis and some of them are our friends, relatives and acquaintances. By the way, some of the Exchanges provide small rubber hoses to place in the tips of pipes. They have found that some pipes, especially glass pipes, do have viability towards the aids virus. They've found that ............ well, that's a lot, more information that is not available and not enough room here to explain. But maybe you already know about it.

Obviously this is not your issue. Because you seem to know extremely little about syringes and drug paraphernalia laws, where they come from and how it affects the rest of the people that influence them. May you one day understand. At least, you were clueless enough to know that syringe exchange programs were a good thing. Even though you have very little idea of why and what it takes. May this make you curious enough to find out more. There is a lot more, but there is not enough room here to even start.

I do want to thank you. You have given me a good idea of what my allies do not know about. If you, at your finger tips have the privilege of the information superhighway and Erowid and DF at your disposal and you are so misinformed. Now I know that this is going to take a lot more work toward the people that are really totally misinformed and still think this is about the war and not health. Thank you for sharing, you have no idea how much you have contributed . May it not take 20 more years.

Figaro added 64 Minutes and 0 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by Sitbcknchill

Amending the drug paraphernalia laws to make users able to buy syringes from pharmacies is one thing (which in most states is legal) But you are missinformed, only 19 or 53 states and territories allow for syringe without a prescription. See how missed infromed you are. I have absolutely no problem with that. Having federally funded exchange programs is another and I do have a problem with it. I have a huge problem with people being able to get their syringes to get high, off of my dollar.

The responsibility I am talking about is personal responsibility. Users know that they shouldn't share needles, they are very aware of what the risks are to that and they could very well spread/contract disease. It is not the governments responsibility to provide recreational users with drug paraphernalia. They do not know, you think they know, but they don't. You are only assuming they do, because you do. But for the most part people do not have enough information to act responsibly. Trust me. I do not know how much more information I can give you about it. But it is the government responsibility to drop (I do not mean amend, like you do). Paraphernalia Laws have lead to quite a bit of abuse and harrassment by Law Enforcement. Even some places where they have Syringe Exchange Programs



Regardless of the governments stance on drugs there is plenty of information out there to assist a user in making the right decisions. I am telling you and I will reapeated, you have that information. But the miss information and censorship is extraordinary. The internet is full of good information on the subject matter. How many junkies in the street do you think are connected to the internet??? It is a work in progress but slowly the tide is turning on being able to find good useful information regarding substance use. Blaming the government for an individuals reckless behavior is nonsense though. You are plain wrong

May we all stop all government funded of all AIDS programs too, because those are your dollars at work.

Too tell you the truth, that the government passes this HR6680 is mostly symbolic. Most locations around the United States that do Syringe Exchange do it from other sources. Unfortunaly, these are not the most liked persons in the world. And I smell dislike of this people too HERE!!! YOu obviously do not know the condition of the street junky and much less about the ones in Thailand or any place else in the third world. Most of the money for Syringe Exchange comes from other sources other than government. But government is the biggest blocker. and you are missinformed. Although you may think you are very well informed.

Figaro added 11 Minutes and 14 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by Nacho

Do we really have any more money to spend? (to put us more in debt)




Edit: I did it anyways.

They obvioiusly have billions of dollars to bail out banks. I am wonder the magic they are using to all getting the money to save Bushes Friends that put us in the hole in the first place.

But I am telling you, this HR6680 is largely symbolic. Is a message to the local government to open the laws so that local laws be able to do Syringe Exchanges.

Figaro added 62 Minutes and 19 Seconds later...

Of course I would like to invite you both or anyone that wants to come from this forum to a Workshop on Syringe Exchange Programs On November 13th 2008 at the Hilton Hotel Downtown Miami 1601 Biscyne Blvd. This is a Free invitation and a lot of your consideration will be answer at the workshop. This part of the 7th Annual Harm Reduction Coaltion Conference that runs November 13 though the 16 2008. You do not have to be part of the Conference to participate.

I am just sorry, that we are coming from a long War on Drugs that has created a condition that even people who are against the War, don't see the kind of environment that has been created. Blacks and Hispanics are amongst the largest percentage of new HIV and Hepatitis new cases due to IV Drug use. We are working against the silences, censorship, myth, misinformation and lack of action that has been created from the long enviorment of misinformation.

Eventhough we may be against the war, there have been many attempts by the war hawks in misleading information and I could see it even in my thinking and in your writing.

For example while I am thinking interms of droping the Praphernelia Laws. Some of you are thinking in terms of AMENDING the law as if we still need this law, while droping it all together is a much better alternative. Thes Parphernelia Laws are designed specific to harrass users. For example in Florida several attempts have been made by the police depatment to charge people for felonies on a cooker or a syringe. For the most part paraphernelia law are misterminers, they try to make felonies out of them by stating that their is recedue in the cooker, syringe, pipe or whatever paraphernelia you might have in your possession.. Basically, the only way that you can get a misterminer is if you have never used the equipment. So what would be the point to have equipment if not to use it.
Even if you have a brand new syringe. Some police officers have had the balls to open the syringe so they can say that the equipment has recidue and charge with a felony rather than a misteminer.

I do not know if yo see the difference and the abuse that can be from such stupid law.

Figaro added 7 Minutes and 26 Seconds later...

If $18.822 billion on the "War on Drugs." was spend by Jorge Bush last year.

do you think that a very small fraction of this money should go to testing and syringes or evern any harm reduction procedure.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Hostile tone and numerous insinuations directed towards others. Flaming is not permitted here, so lets try to have a re...
	good points

[Nacho]

Originally Posted by Figaro

*wall of text*

Here's an idea: how about you get the fuck off your high horse and stop throwing insults out when someone wants to have an intelligent conversation.


You're absolutely right though. I had no clue that people that need syringes are all illiterate, have no access to internet, have never heard of AIDS (I wonder if they've heard of HIV or Hepatitis?), and can get their DoC easier than the needle to shoot it up.

I still say we shouldn't throw more money out there for it. The one thing we should do is get rid of paraphernalia laws.



(don't think that because my response isn't long that i didn't read everything you typed. i'd be pissed if i typed all of that for no reason so i felt obligated to read it all...even though you compared me to bush, called me ignorant a bunch of times, and called me a sophisticated snob)

[silenius]

Originally Posted by Sitbcknchill

I think it is about time drug users take responsibility for themselves. People here don't seem to want to take responsibility for shit these days and wants everyone else to bail them out. We are about to spend 700 billion (of which we don't have to begin with) to bail out the stock market.

You can help stop the spread of HIV and Hepatitis by acting responsibly.

The syringe exchange programs do not target those that can cope with their habit. Those that can cope with it, are usually deemed responsible drug users. The exchange programs target people that live in less stellar circumstances, i.e. people that share needles as getting new ones is too expensive for them.

Neither from a humanitarian point of view, nor from a libertarian I can understand how people say stuff like what you said above:
* the humanitarian in me says that everybody should be helped where necessary
* the libertarian in me looks at the money saved by not having to treat Hepatitis or AIDS consumers caught by sharing/reusing needles.

About "time to take responsibility for themselves": I think of addiction as a disease and as such the addict just proved that he cannot take responsibility for all his actions. If your demand had any foundation in reality, we neither needed rehabs nor substitutes like methadone or Buprenorphine.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good points

[Sitbcknchill]

Amending the drug paraphernalia laws to make users able to buy syringes from pharmacies is one thing (which in most states is legal) But you are missinformed, only 19 or 53 states and territories allow for syringe without a prescription. See how missed infromed you are. I have absolutely no problem with that. Having federally funded exchange programs is another and I do have a problem with it. I have a huge problem with people being able to get their syringes to get high, off of my dollar.

The responsibility I am talking about is personal responsibility. Users know that they shouldn't share needles, they are very aware of what the risks are to that and they could very well spread/contract disease. It is not the governments responsibility to provide recreational users with drug paraphernalia. They do not know, you think they know, but they don't. You are only assuming they do, because you do. But for the most part people do not have enough information to act responsibly. Trust me. I do not know how much more information I can give you about it. But it is the government responsibility to drop (I do not mean amend, like you do). Paraphernalia Laws have lead to quite a bit of abuse and harrassment by Law Enforcement. Even some places where they have Syringe Exchange Programs



Regardless of the governments stance on drugs there is plenty of information out there to assist a user in making the right decisions. I am telling you and I will reapeated, you have that information. But the miss information and censorship is extraordinary. The internet is full of good information on the subject matter. How many junkies in the street do you think are connected to the internet??? It is a work in progress but slowly the tide is turning on being able to find good useful information regarding substance use. Blaming the government for an individuals reckless behavior is nonsense though. You are plain wrong

If you would like to quote and respond to what I write please do not insert your comments into my quote, rather just separate the the quote. It gets hard for people to keep up with who is saying what..

But you are missinformed, only 19 or 53 states and territories allow for syringe without a prescription. See how missed infromed you are.

I have conflicting results as my information points to only being four states that do not allow syringe sales without prescriptions (Delaware, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey). You call me misinformed yet you provide nothing to show me otherwise. All you do is state that I am wrong over and over. Here is one of the articles I read awhile back telling me otherwise. Sterile Syringe Access (Needle Exchange)

They do not know, you think they know, but they don't. You are only assuming they do, because you do. But for the most part people do not have enough information to act responsibly. Trust me. I do not know how much more information I can give you about it. But it is the government responsibility to drop (I do not mean amend, like you do). Paraphernalia Laws have lead to quite a bit of abuse and harrassment by Law Enforcement. Even some places where they have Syringe Exchange Programs

People do have the information to act responsibly whether you want to admit it or not. You could walk up to just about any IDU on the street and ask them if they are aware they could be spreading/contracting diseases through sharing needles and I would bet you 95% of the people you ask would say yes. This information is not breaking news, it has been common knowledge for quite some time now. The problem is they don't care enough to really do something about it because all they can think about is how I'm going to get my next hit. People like this need help and I'm not talking about how we can help street junkies find a clean needle. I'm talking about helping them beat their addiction and maybe even the possibilty of actually becoming productive members of society instead of the drain they are now.

How many junkies in the street do you think are connected to the internet???

What is the real question here? How many junkies on the street are connected to the internet or how many junkies on the street actually give a damn about themselves enough to get informed about what they are doing?

Would it really be that hard to go to the library and jump on the web to do some quick research, or maybe pick up a book, get in touch with the Red Cross, ask a pharmacist. Last I checked library cards are free as well as the use of the internet. If you actually gave a damn about what you were doing to yourself you probably would. Saying the right information can not be found is completely BS.


I am not saying that syringes should be banned from being available but I am saying it should not be federally funded, that is my issue with it.

Blaming the government for an individuals reckless behavior is nonsense though. You are plain wrong

And on this last little comment just because you say I am plain wrong does not make it so. It really does bother me that people like yourself always places blame on anybody other than themselves for doing what they do.

But we can agree to disagree....

I will get in touch with my representatives to state my opinion so at the very least thank you for the heads up. As for debating with you, I stated my case and whether you like it or not that is my opinion. You think that someone who has a different opinion than yourself is just flat out wrong, which is fine if you believe that because you believe what you want to believe, we all do. Other than that I am done going back and forth with you because basically it is going nowhere, your ramblings are just getting harder to read and further from the point.

[drug-bot]

Originally Posted by Sitbcknchill

I have conflicting results as my information points to only being four states that do not allow syringe sales without prescriptions (Delaware, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey).

massachussetts allows needles without prescriptions as of about 2 years ago, its swims home state and he has purchased syringes hundreds upon hundreds of times.



i think needle exchanges are a good idea. its a public health policy even if one thinks if a junky gets aids its his fault guess what they aint gonna keep it to themselves; their not just gonna spread it to other junkys either, but to people they have sex with then that person passes it on, or if they have kids and pass it on to them. theres alot of innocent victims who need protection

[Figaro]

First let me do to appologist, so that we can talk about this more clearly.

If you would like to quote and respond to what I write please do not insert your comments into my quote, rather just separate the the quote. It gets hard for people to keep up with who is saying what..
1. I have no idea, much,how this message board operantes. The fact that you are see in the format of the way it is showing the post is not my intention. I did responded in a different "Quick Reply" and that is how it is showing. It was intended to show a different reply. I am now using this color coding skim to see if it work better.

2nd. I know that I was a bit harsh with both of you on the issue of Responsiblity. In the ordinary course of events, between extremely high achivement motivators like us. The issue of responsibility, I would agree with you. I defenetly wouldn't share any Syringes with my best girlfriend. (If I was a heroin addict).
But we are truly taking for granted the lifes of the junky in the street. And we asssume that it is an issue of responsibility rather than of missing information. If you are only willing to look and see that we are privilage people (you guys and me), that we have access to the Information Superhighway, that most people truly do not.......... Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally!!! You guys are talking a lot more for granted than you guys are willing to addmit. You guys, do not realized how much you guys are sounding like Judge Judy and George W. Bush........Now, I know, you guys are not like that. I have a sense about you guys, that you are a lot more intelligent than that or you wouldn't be here at this message board. But that attitude is so prevailing, that I wanted to kill it to the ground and make you look further at where both of you guys pick up the attitude.

http://www.actupny.org/alert/judgejudy.html http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/40383/

I mean, it goes one for ever this issue about responsiblity of the choice of death. http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...2e+Drug+Policy


Do you REALLY think that if given a choice and having the information. This individuals would go out of their way to share syringes if they truly know that they will get extremely sick and die......... Given a choice between shotting dope with a clean syringe or a used syringe. I bet you any money that the street Junky will choose the New Clean Syringe over the used one that someone else has use before. The fact is that they truly do not have neither the choice nor the information. ....................... Second, in the last decade the amount of over doses in the United States have increase tremendously. Do you guys really think that they wanted to over dose and die? really".... This is almost no longer


You are wrong, you are just not willing to see it. Talk about a high horse??!?!?!, you both will keep your tight ass attitudes. Just to be right. I could show you study after study after study telling you it is not an issue at all about responsiblity when it comes to people with at the access to clean syringes or information like you and me have.

An example of your prevaling attitude is "buy syringes from pharmacies is one thing (which in most states is legal)"

NOoooooooooooooooooooooo, I gave you the link and you did not even see it. Nineteen out of 50 states and 3 territories the Laws allow for people to get syringes without a prescription................................ that is not MOST STATES. ..... Admit to yourself, that you are really misinformed about the issues here. That you are taking a lot for granted and making assumtions that are incorrect..................... I do not need for you to admit it to me. Because I know the fact on this issue. I have been looking at this issues for several decades now. You guys are only reacting to the issues and think that this is about your "tax dollars" and you would want anyone to use your tax dollars so people can get high......................... I admit, you can truly become confuse about this issue easily................. But it is not about people using your tax dollars to get high.


Okay, I accept your challenge, because I already have done this
People do have the information to act responsibly whether you want to admit it or not. You could walk up to just about any IDU on the street and ask them if they are aware they could be spreading/contracting diseases through sharing needles and I would bet you 95% of the people you ask would say yes. This information is not breaking news, it has been common knowledge for quite some time now.


Now, you know, I am not saying that NO ONE HAS the information. What I am saying is that you are taking it for granted that every one has it. And I am telling you that there is a lot of missing information and there is a gigantic cloud of missinformation and assumtions made from the Junkies in the street themselves that they do not or will not get AIDS and get sick. How much on your bet of 95% will say yes that they know. You are really talking from not knowing and making a lot of assumtions trust me. I have talk with them, and I am not saying that some are not aware. I am saying that inspited of you Ivry Tower of information that you and I have. Most junkies on the street of the world, even in the United States. Have big blocks of information missing. For the last many years there has been a "conspiracy"<for a lack of a better word) which has been extremely cruel to people with a "disease or medical condition" for which you would not understand because you have not lived it.................. We have zero tolerant issues, that people who use illegal drugs (specially a "dangerous" one as heroin) can not be consider even in the same rank of being human. I know, we do not talk about it like that, but when you look at the cruelty that goes with it. And the fact that you guys do not ralized the conspiracy of silence, missinformation, myth etc Mixed it all together, and you will realized that the 95% of those people that you think has the information like you and me. Do not because most people take all the silence, misinformation and myth at face value and the junky in the street is actually confused about the information that you and me think is EXTREMELY CLEAR.

What is the real question here? How many junkies on the street are connected to the internet or how many junkies on the street actually give a damn about themselves enough to get informed about what they are doing?

There goes that attitude again. YOu think that those people are doing it on purpose. You are right, they do not give a damn, because they do not even know that they are suppose to give a damn. I am telling you, you guys want every one to be like you and me and the reality of the word is that they are not. They have to worry about geting the hassale for their next fix. You really have no idea about the world outside of your suburban confortable home. and it is okay. I mean, that is your world and it is most likely a very confortable world, but it does keep you from the accurate information and you make tons of assumtions that do not fit all together....................... lisent, I know people that were extremely careful about not sharing syringes, I mean extremely. They even carried a small bottle of clorox to make sure that they will clean a syringe of their own if they have used it before and if they found themselve needing to share a syringe because there were any other available, they will clean the syringe that they shared with someone else. Except, that the information that they had about cleaning the syringe so they will not get AIDS worked very well for not getting AIDS......................... several month later, they found out they had Heptitis. But wait, they clean their syringe with clorox and they were extremely careful. How the hell they got Hepatitist? Well, the information that was always availble and he paid attention to was AIDS, and the Hipatitist virus required to clean the syringe double the amount of time. and that information was not available to him until much later, after he got hepatitis, he started investigating and to kill the hepatitist virus one needed to clean the syringe for 2 minutes compair to only one minute for AIDS...........................

NOw, do you think that he wanted to get hepititis?

Every one was so concerned about AIDS, that the information about Hepatitis got masked in the process and was not as available as the information on AIDS. For one minute, do you think he was not concerned about his health? I say yes, but he was missing the other information and it has coused him thousands of dollars to treat his hepatitist. Was not until, month later that the information about cleaning the syringe with clorox was amended to every one to clean it for 2 minutes rather than one.

I am not saying that syringes should be banned from being available but I am saying it should not be federally funded, that is my issue with it.

Dont write your representative. But the day that something comes up, about your favorite drug and that there maight be an issue of your health, perhaps you will find someone like you that will disagree with you strongly, no matter how much you see it, but he does not. Because you see, he would say something like you are saying now.

I am fine with the fact that they should drop the (not amend) the Drug Paraphenlia Law. I am really fine with it. That will solve quite a bit of the problem all together. I do not mind people buy their own syringes ........................................ But I think there is so much damage already done, that you do not see, like 1 in 5 have AIDS. That the Syringe Exchange programs do a lot more than just pass out syringes................... That is a main, but a very small part of a Syringe Exchange Program ....................................... What is about, more about getting information out to the Addicts on the Streets. About a whole bunch of information that you think they SHOULD already have, but they don't. Programs in South Florida currently pass out clorox bottles, and it does have some impact, but not ass much as when one compairs it with a full blown Syringe Exchange Programs do. Comparative studies show that full Syringe Exchange Programs are significantly a lot more effective than the programs that are currently only passing Clorox and clean cotton etc. Mainly perhaps, and I am not certain, that syringe exchange are a lot more attractive than some guys that is just passing little botles of clorox.

And on this last little comment just because you say I am plain wrong does not make it so. It really does bother me that people like yourself always places blame on anybody other than themselves for doing what they do.

But we can agree to disagree....

No we don't, it is not like that. You are privilage and not even note it. I assert, that you are just like the junky in the street that you blame for not having the information. I say, you do not have the information to make a clear and consiencious desicion to be right.


I will get in touch with my representatives to state my opinion so at the very least thank you for the heads up.

I rather you don't, you will come out like Judge Judy. Fortunatly for us, we have the freedom to do that. But you will be doing a miss service to yourself and the community at large ............................................... I suggest, that before you contact your representative, that you give your self some times and let some of this infromation siemer in your head. Think about it for a little bit, it will not hurt ............................. I will also suggest that since you seem to be so passioned about this issue, that you look at the information in the INTERNET, look at the research available. The whys of the reasons I am talking the way I am talking to you. In this issue, do what you think Junkies in the street should be doing. and find out both for and against. I do not mind. Then truly look at the reality of the junky on the street, and not at your reality for a little while. It will not last long. It truly will not hurt you at all to do this. YOU and me are privilage. The difference between you and me, is that I have found out about it, you have not yet not know how privilage you are and how lucky you are to have the brains, the intelligence and the mind that you are........................................ I know you do not like what I am saying,,,,,,,,,, but trust me..... I truly do not know how to say it in a better way, or else I would be doing it.................................... I just know, that if I was an active addict on the street, down and out fucked up missinformed addict and irresponsive human being that you think I shouldn't be.................................... That there would be someone like me advocating for my best wellbeing (they have told me). You might not notice it. I don't know whether I am my bother's keeper!!!!, but if I had a choice and I was a down and out junky in the street, I sure wish I had someone that would be a compasioned keeper, because I can not do it for myself....................... I request you do not do it right away.................. You still have until next year, this is not something that is comming to be voted in the House of Representative in the next couple of month. Besides, you are going to hear more about it (I hope)............................ You do not want to make a big mistake, that you might regret later for not being totaly informed........ Yet you have the right and the privilage to do it................... Most junkies on the street will not have the same right to get in a computer and write a letter to their congress person............................ You are right, that is the furthers thing from their head. but I will bet you that if they do have a Syringe Exchange Program ever in their neighborhood. They probrably donate their pennys to help themselves. I know because I have talked with them. I am almost sure, you have not ...................... you have spoken from a lot of assumetions that are not accurate. that is how I know.... and I know you hate for me to tell you about that. but it is the way it is. If you are worried about your tax dollars, think how much more money is going to cost to pay not only the disability social security, but the medical treatment that this guys will eventually get. I know that they have done some beneft/cost analyisis, I just do not have that information right in front of me to prived it to you. Syringe distribution will be a lot cheaper than pay social security and medicaid. I have seen the numbers. I just do not remember where I can find them right away. and by now it is not that important sinceyou seem to have made up your mind.

By the way, I work with the DEAF also, so I know exactly what Helen Keller ment.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Using insults and stating someone being 'wrong' before debate is just bad form.

[Sitbcknchill]

massachussetts allows needles without prescriptions as of about 2 years ago, its swims home state and he has purchased syringes hundreds upon hundreds of times.

My source for that was written in 2006 so my apologies, thanks for the update.

[Figaro]

The syringe exchange programs do not target those that can cope with their habit. Those that can cope with it, are usually deemed responsible drug users. The exchange programs target people that live in less stellar circumstances, i.e. people that share needles as getting new ones is too expensive for them.

Neither from a humanitarian point of view, nor from a libertarian I can understand how people say stuff like what you said above:
* the humanitarian in me says that everybody should be helped where necessary
* the libertarian in me looks at the money saved by not having to treat Hepatitis or AIDS consumers caught by sharing/reusing needles.

About "time to take responsibility for themselves": I think of addiction as a disease and as such the addict just proved that he cannot take responsibility for all his actions. If your demand had any foundation in reality, we neither needed rehabs nor substitutes like methadone or Buprenorphine.
__________________


Thank you, you said it better than I was able to make the statemente. That is the difference. We assume that all IDUs are the kind of the same, have the same skills, abilities and intellectua/educational level. It is kind of a blanket assumption.

I am talking about the guys that live on the street under the xpressways and are genarally homeless or extremely poor and they are really strong out. No job, husseling what ever he can so he can get his next bag day after day after day after day.

Figaro added 165 Minutes and 45 Seconds later...
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Originally Posted by Nacho

Quit this BS blame game of who said what. Everything I said was true. Don't flatter yourself by saying I'm getting sensitive. Flaming isn't allowed and you were walking a fine line there in your post. You probably weren't trying to insult me, but you were being as patronizing as you could (which isn't the best way to have a discussion). You can lie on a forum but not to yourself. I think it's best if we cut the crap and just leave this as a needle discussion and not one on personal attacks.

Got ya, I hearing ya.




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Figaro added 942 Minutes and 27 Seconds later...

Here is Jose Serrranos page and information on this Bill HR6680

News Release of July 30, 2008

jserrano@mail.house.gov

SERRANO INTRODUCES BILL TO LIFT FEDERAL SYRINGE EXCHANGE FUNDING BAN

http://serrano.house.gov/PressRelease.aspx?NewsID=1581

FIGHTING HIV-AIDS ONE SYRINGE AT A TIME

http://serrano.house.gov/Article.aspx?NewsID=1586



SERRANO EXPRESSES CONCERN AT PUERTO RICO, TERRITORIES BEING LEFT OUT OF CDC HIV REPORT

Me too !! why did they left them out, when the numbers are very large.

http://serrano.house.gov/PressRelease.aspx?NewsID=1584

[chillinwill]

figaro, can you please post the text of each link as links can go down over time and then that information wouldn't be available, but if posted on here, it can always be viewed

[Figaro]

Do you want me to fix this post? take the links off and put the whole text?

It was my impression that putting on the text would take more space off the server or more space from the message board when people could go to the link themselve and read it.

Nevertheless it makes sense that if someone wants to read this link a year from now it might not be there any more. but a year from now I am nottoo sure that this would be an issue.


I read the "rules" but did not committed them to memory, and I am sure that plenty of people do not remember them either. but maybe it is because I am old and when well, lets leave there.

Figaro added 28 Minutes and 47 Seconds later...

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I have conflicting results as my information points to only being four states that do not allow syringe sales without prescriptions (Delaware, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey). You call me misinformed yet you provide nothing to show me otherwise. All you do is state that I am wrong over and over. Here is one of the articles I read awhile back telling me otherwise. Sterile Syringe Access (Needle Exchange)




With all due respect boss, but this is what the article says. Where do you get the idea from the article that most states have syringe availability? Maybe I missed it.


Although many states and municipalities in the United States have taken steps to improve access to sterile syringes, the possession, distribution, and sale of syringes remain criminal offenses in much of the country. The federal government, though one of the largest funders of AIDS prevention in the world, refuses to fund needle exchange programs. This forces many programs offering these crucial services to operate largely underground. There are currently 185 needle exchange programs operating in 36 states as well as Washington D.C., Puerto Rico, and Native American lands.

Please note that it says most operate UNDERGROUND. Would you amend your statement, as missunderstanding? By the way 185 needle exchange programs are not nearly as much as we trully need in the United States and it's territory.

FYI, the SWIMER (or whatever you call it) is one of the 185 and operates underground exchanges and it does not operante full time nor all year around. I assume that all the other underground exchange operate similarly as they operante on a loose budget and donations.

[Sitbcknchill]

Pharmacy Sale of Syringes - Non-prescription, over-the-counter sale of syringes has recently expanded to include almost all of the United States. Only four states (Delaware, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey) still require prescriptions to purchase syringes. States have taken several different approaches to revising their policies so that syringes can be sold without a prescription, including exempting syringes from paraphernalia laws and broadening language in laws related to medical need. Studies from the first states that allowed non-prescription pharmacy sales show that the practice has had a significant impact on needle sharing trends. For example, since Connecticut reformed its drug paraphernalia and prescription laws to allow pharmacy sales in 1992, needle sharing among injection drug users dropped by 40%.
In 2004, California joined the list of states allowing nonprescription syringe sales when Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger signed SB 1159 (Vasconcellos) into law. California now permits over-the-counter sales of up to 10 syringes in counties and cities that elect to participate in the statewide Disease Prevention Demonstration Project. Since the enactment of SB 1159, 14 counties (Los Angeles, Santa Barbara, San Francisco, Contra Costa, Yuba, Marin, Santa Cruz, Alameda, Yolo, San Mateo, Solano, Sonoma, Humboldt, and Santa Clara) and 3 cities (Los Angeles, West Hollywood, and San Francisco) have authorized non-prescription syringe sales.

This was what I was talking about.

[Figaro]

Originally Posted by Sitbcknchill

This was what I was talking about.

Where the hell you got this from?, what site?. I mean we got to figure out how legit is that information. I assume it is good. I mean, it reads solution to me. If I can have the site and check out the legimitacy of it then we have in our hands alll kinds of sulutions that can be worked around.



Now, you see the fact that you have some information. Can make a difference in attitude and opinion. I still think syringe programs are going to be needed because there is way too much damage done out there. Many of this people do not know that they have the virus (I sware I am not lieing) and they need to be tested and place or requested to go into treatment.

You see syringe exchange is not about just giving out syringes anymore it is about vein care, infections and a number of other things that are good public health polocy.

Thanks you do not know how much I appreciated. I like to pass this information with other people I know. Some public health nurses specially with the health department.

I still got my doubts of how many farmacies know about the purchase of syringes over the counter without having to have a prescricion. This has not been available to local newspapers etc. I mean I am having like NEW INFORMATION breakdown. There is a question that pops in my mind every few seconds.

I wish you would have included where you got the information from. That would answer quite a bit of the questions.

I mean, I donot even know what authorization this piece of information is comming from??


I google Pharmacy Sale of Syringes, and I am only comming across references and information for California that reasently pass a law allowing the sales of syringes. AS far as I could tell this was not implemented as a law, but rather that people are talking about it like a good idea. I am not too sure what the quotes that you have realy means. I do not think this is alike a law, but rather like a Public Health Policy that has not been implemented.

[Sitbcknchill]

Originally Posted by Figaro

Where the hell you got this from?, what site?.

I gave the link once and you even quoted the page it was on.

Sterile Syringe Access (Needle Exchange)

Read a little more down the page than you read previously.

As for the total accuracy you might want to get in touch with one of their team for source verification as I didn't call every state to verify when I read the article some time ago.

[Figaro]

Originally Posted by Sitbcknchill

I gave the link once and you even quoted the page it was on.

Sterile Syringe Access (Needle Exchange)

Read a little more down the page than you read previously.

As for the total accuracy you might want to get in touch with one of their team for source verification as I didn't call every state to verify when I read the article some time ago.

I am in contact with the Harm Reduction Coalition
on at least a weekly bases. They are doing their 7 National Conference here in Miami, Florida. November 13 though the 16 this year (next month) and I am one of their best contact down here. I send them obviously the information, not remembering that it was theirs. However, I think that what you read gives a wrong impression. There is inconsistencies in the report, and I have of yet seen no authority that really allows for persons or an addict to go buy syringe without a prescription. Is like buy bongs and pipes, if you tell the sales person or the pharmacist or they suspect that you are going to use it to do drugs. You might as well forget it the pharmacist unless he knows you, and know you are not a nark, he ain't going to sell it to you unless he thinks you need it and he has quite a bit of campation.

It is not as you think you imagen, that is easy as pie, because it is not.

for several reason and the reasons below.

"through both legal and illegal means. While some law enforcement agencies recognize the benefits of needle exchange programs, there are numerous cases of police harassment of both needle exchange workers and clients."

ON the other hand, there is numerous drug paraphernalia lawin many states. and while that is in existence, it is a big block to access to most drug addicts in the street. By the way, you and I know that information. but if you were to go to most addict in the street he is going to mention the drug paraphernalia law first and then say hum!!! you are saying that most states do not have a law that requires pharmacist to sell it to you without a prescription? They will be surprise as hell!!!


My impression is that their might be a little bit of better access for pharmacists to sell you a syringe without a prescription. I read some time ago that this had to do much with where. If I was to go to a Coral Gables Pharmacy and go better dress and request a stranger from the pharmacy and let them assume that either I or my son or sick friend at home is a diabetic and ran out of syringes, it is most likely he will sell it to me, than if I was to go to the inner city pharmacies and I look not so well dressed.

The response from the West Coast Harm Reduction Coalition (don't want to use her name) was. The only State that has come (out of the closet is California. And I am sure that this information was not available in the mainstream media, but I found out through harm reduction coalition organizations) :

"Pharmacy laws around syringes are state-level laws. The efforts to lift them have been spearheaded by drug policy and harm reduction orgs, and then we get professional organizations, like the Pharmacists', on board. The info for the CA program can be found here:
http://www.helpstopaids.com/

It is a site sponsored by the Drug Policy Alliance.

Here're two background papers you may find useful attached. According the Scott Burris, the legal expert, prescriptions are only required for sale of syringes to minors in Florida. You could test it out. Go to a pharmacy and order a pack of 10. See what happens. Go to another and order 10 packs of 10. (I know you're not working right now so maybe not, but it would test it.) Sometimes even in states where it is legal, like Nevada, pharmacists will decide not to sell it if they think you're an IDU. Pulling out the law may not make a difference. I sent it to you already, but here it is again. As you can see from the yellow highlighted part, it's only illegal to sell syringes to people under 18 w/o a prescription.


So it is my impression that there still a big conflict between the War on Drugs harassment law of paraphernalia law and what people and organization as well as independent pharmacy are doing on their own without LEGAL AUTHORITY. I am assuming that most pharmacies will not provide you with a syringe if they feel all paranoid that they might bust them.

She send me two position papers I have not read yet. But if you want me to post them please let me know. I think it is important that we have all as much information as possible.

To bad that not all have access as much as you and we do. But I keep saying that you and I are privilege and that too many people do not know, nor have information readily as they should. This is not the kind of information that they print in the Mainstream Newspaper nor the 7 o'clock news. You have to search it, and first you have to think that maybe some kind of information like this might be available. The Drug Paraphernalia Laws are much better know laws and they mask this kind of information unless you put it out in the world on purpose. Most people assume many things and then you have to find a pharmacist willing to sell you the syringe without a prescription, because he still have to think that you are buying it to do drugs. So if you look like a drugy and if you look homeless you might as well forget it you have to find a discreet compassionate pharmacist and a discreet junky to act so that it is available. DO YOU SEE ALL OF THE DIFFICULTIES THAT IT TAKES. AND THE GUYS THAT NEED IT THE MOST MOST LIKELY WILL NOT GET IT.

As you can imagen, I will go and test this in different pharmacist the minute I get some money in my hands. Then take it to people in Overtown Miami and provide them to people this fish had shot dope with year ago before life change for me.... I have been fairly well out of the drug situation and try not to start any fires in this fishes life and the fish do very well. But the fish is angry as hell, and enough because in the process of this War on Drugs this fish got a few deceases he shouldn't have had if there was no WAR and one had information. So you can imagen, they created a guerrilla fighter underground. A big silver back gorilla. Although I never like Che Guevara much, and the fact is he was never really very successful. What we got is a great Public Relation campaign base on T-Shits and coffee mugs, I did read Guerra de Guerrilla and got a few pointer that did work, others are not as good and out of the whole book I found maybe one or two pointers that really work, they don't do a lot of damage (like death and mayhem), but does frustrate authorities.

The way that this was presented to me by you at this forum was like this was some kind of new law that was pass by congress or something like that. I did not find out it was in the Harm Reduction Coalition web site until much later. And the fact is that this is somewhat shaky. Syringes are a more readily available but still not at sufficiency level to make any major difference against the AIDS or Hepatitis virus.

I had my hope up some, but it is not like, is a free for all type condition. Again if you think is a good idea for me to Download the background or position papers she attached to my email. I am wondering where I should download them or should I cut and paste them. I have not read them yet, but began to make some sense of what you were saying. I am not too sure if you got the drift of the conditions and that still accessibility is not as readily available as we might assume by what you wrote.


There is more, but still not enough political will to drop the State Paraphernalia Laws which is a results of point blank harassment and has less to do with drugs possession and was designed extensively just to harass users and make difficulty and at this point CRUEL and somewhat fascistic position of our governments to allow people to die (actually genocidal) just to make the point of their war on drugs

[Sitbcknchill]

Thank you for the input Figaro. Please add any relevant info/papers to this thread as you wish as information is always welcome. I do understand where you are coming from but it still doesn't change my mind on the issue. I would like to see syringes readily available for these people but at their own cost. We have already been down that road in this thread so no need to start that up again but I would be interested in reading the papers you speak of and I'm sure others would too.

[Figaro]

--------------------------- ------------------=-----------------------------

Ya I found the link to the attachment,is that paper clip on the top. here are the two Pdf. ONe of them is a monogram kind of long, if you are into reading quite a bit. AS you noted I am not only it got my total interest. And I can tell all ready some of this stuff might be kind of boaring.

I have no idea where they went, some thing about Manage Attachement.

[JaWill88]

swim must say this is way, way to big of an issue to even really care how much money goes to save many, many lives. that's priceless. the money has gone to sooo much worse things it's just rediculous. anyways swim kind of understands not wanting to spend the money. well actually not really. but anyways this is a great topic.

[Figaro]

Originally Posted by JaWill88

swim must say this is way, way to big of an issue to even really care how much money goes to save many, many lives. that's priceless. the money has gone to sooo much worse things it's just rediculous. anyways swim kind of understands not wanting to spend the money. well actually not really. but anyways this is a great topic.

When you think that 1 in 5 IDU user might have HIV infection. Start thinking about everyone you have know that shoot dope and begging to wonder who might or might not have it. AS I understand it, most IDU that have it, do not know that they have it. I surely know a lot more than 5 people. My acquittance's and friends that shoot dope can be in the hundredth.

I have wonder how close I could have been to getting it myself. Surely as least it angers me that I had other conditions that I shouldn't have because of this damn War on Drugs. The unfairness of the lack of and hidden information that goes with it, does a lot more damage than you guy can imagen and are not aware of.

Figaro added 7 Minutes and 13 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by Sitbcknchill

Thank you for the input Figaro. Please add any relevant info/papers to this thread as you wish as information is always welcome. I do understand where you are coming from but it still doesn't change my mind on the issue. I would like to see syringes readily available for these people but at their own cost. We have already been down that road in this thread so no need to start that up again but I would be interested in reading the papers you speak of and I'm sure others would too.

Two pieces of information is in pdf, can't cut and paste. I am not too sure how interested you guys might be about the Florida Regulation. But her it is on the bottom. If you know where I can download the PDF. can I Attach it to one of the post, and how is it done?

Bluthenth...pdf (76.2 KB), Burris AB...pdf (280.6 KB), Florida d...doc (23.1 KB)


Florida apparently the Drug Paraphernalia Law??


The 2008 Florida Statutes

Title XLVI

CRIMES

Chapter 893

DRUG ABUSE PREVENTION AND CONTROL
View Entire Chapter

893.147 Use, possession, manufacture, delivery, transportation, or advertisement ofdrugparaphernalia.--
(1) USE OR possessionofdrugparaphernalia.--It is unlawful for any person to use, or to possess with intent to use, drugparaphernalia:
(a) To plant, propagate, cultivate, grow, harvest, manufacture, compound, convert, produce, process, prepare, test, analyze, pack, repack, store, contain, or conceal a controlled substance in violation of this chapter; or
(b) To inject, ingest, inhale, or otherwise introduce into the human body a controlled substance in violation of this chapter.

Any person who violates this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
(2) MANUFACTURE OR DELIVERY ofdrugparaphernalia.--It is unlawful for any person to deliver, possess with intent to deliver, or manufacture with intent to deliver drugparaphernalia, knowing, or under circumstances where one reasonably should know, that it will be used:
(a) To plant, propagate, cultivate, grow, harvest, manufacture, compound, convert, produce, process, prepare, test, analyze, pack, repack, store, contain, or conceal a controlled substance in violation of this act; or
(b) To inject, ingest, inhale, or otherwise introduce into the human body a controlled substance in violation of this act.

Any person who violates this subsection is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(3) DELIVERY ofdrugparaphernalia TO A MINOR.--
(a) Any person 18 years of age or over who violates subsection (2) by delivering drugparaphernalia to a person under 18 years of age is guilty of a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(b) It is unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise deliver hypodermic syringes, needles, or other objects which may be used, are intended for use, or are designed for use in parenterally injecting substances into the human body to any person under 18 years of age, except that hypodermic syringes, needles, or other such objects may be lawfully dispensed to a person under 18 years of age by a licensed practitioner, parent, or legal guardian or by a pharmacist pursuant to a valid prescription for same. Any person who violates the provisions of this paragraph is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
(4) TRANSPORTATION ofdrugparaphernalia.--It is unlawful to use, possess with the intent to use, or manufacture with the intent to use drugparaphernalia, knowing or under circumstances in which one reasonably should know that it will be used to transport:
(a) A controlled substance in violation of this chapter; or
(b) Contraband as defined in s. 932.701(2)(a)1.

Any person who violates this subsection commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(5) ADVERTISEMENT ofdrugparaphernalia.--It is unlawful for any person to place in any newspaper, magazine, handbill, or other publication any advertisement, knowing, or under circumstances where one reasonably should know, that the purpose of the advertisement, in whole or in part, is to promote the sale of objects designed or intended for use as drugparaphernalia. Any person who violates this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.


History.--s. 3, ch. 80-30; s. 1, ch. 81-149; s. 54, ch. 83-215; s. 1, ch. 85-8; s. 223, ch. 91-224; s. 16, ch. 2000-360.



I am not an attorney, can any one with some law background or idea interpret the above better than I????????

Figaro added 14 Minutes and 59 Seconds later...

Knowing that it is a misdemeanor of the first degree. Is very tempting to get busted just for making the point with the police depatment and the courts in Florida and Miami Dade County. I know that AIDS Brigade was the only Syringe Exchange Program Florida (Key West, which was not a very big location for syringe, but there were a lot of gays down there) ........... They were really radical about their position back about 10 years ago. There were not that many dope shooters down there. At least not heroin, maybe a lot of powder coke. AIDS Brigade as an organization were willing to get busted atleast 3 or 4 times before the county realized that they were serious about the AIDS issue and that this was a public health matter and not a legal matter that they were worried about. Apparently being that it is a smaller community in the Florida Keys, either pressure from a very large gay communty (yeeeeeeeeeiiii gays) or the Sheriff and the local police department coming down to their senses and realizing that AIDS BRIGADES was serious and willing to continue to get arrested for this cause continue the Syinge Exchange program until the authorities gave up.