buprenorphine taper, any success?

[JaWill88]

thats pretty much it. swim goes in to do time on oct 15th and is on suboxone, and comfortable at 8mg. thats about 3 weeks swim thinks. anyone got any advice? anyone had a sucessful buprenorphine taper? thanks.

[infekt]

swim has had a successful taper, though it was very short and was in a controlled environment (rehab). Like swim has said in the other threads, the clonodine helped a lot. Swim's taper went from 8 to 0 mg in 4 days or so. It was harsh but manageable..

[JaWill88]

thanks for the reply. swim would like to hear any suboxone success stories. anyone have any?

[mvb1]

hopefully I will have one in a few days. I am just starting on it now;

[Richard_smoker]

check out my thread on it. tapering with buprenorphine can be a bitch, but it's also a manageable bitch, especially if you can give yourself enough time to adjust.

basically, swim went straight for the full monty--from 8-16mg daily down to 1mg twice daily within a few days. Now, unbenownst to swim, his body was going thru some pretty serious changes during what turned out to be a full month.

his body could definitely "tell the difference" between 0.8mg once daily versus twice daily...as he would go into full shaking, sweating hell sometime within the ensuing 24 hours after taking his dose down again too quickly.

i think it really depends upon how long one has been on the subs (subutex/suboxone/buprenorphine). if it's only been a month or 2, then one can just start taking half, then a quarter, then half a quarter, and in a week be done with em completely.

now, if you've been on bupe for more like a year or two, then you need to give yourself 6 weeks. period. any faster than that and you're gonna be hurting. i'd have to say that if one were to stop buprenorphine cold turkey--the withdrawals get pretty severe, and they peak at around day 15-17...lasting at least a month.

now, with an appropriate taper, one can come down gently over the same amount of time (actually double the time...at least, double the normal detox time). just takes some planning and thought going into the process.

find some friends. this board is a great outlet. people here are very supportive when their comrades decide to kick it once and for all. we always welcome others to share their experiences on this board. I know my swim's taper plan would have been sheer hell without the support of this board.

thanks guys,
-DICK

[dyingtomorrow]

Bupe is a weird thing. SWIM tried quitting heroin many times over 2 years, and each time he tried suboxone he assumed it didn't work for him. Even did a in-patient detox program, and left after a couple days when he was in full blown withdrawals despite being fed suboxones after suboxone by the doc.

SWIM learned how to really use suboxone, and it is a miracle drug. Some studies have suggested that stable bupe doses taken in a certain way actually have the effect of reducing opiate tolerance without any discomfort. I totally believe this.

SWIM and his friend have had the exactly same experience. Quick detox with suboxone. If you do it fast, it is not nearly as hard or painful as if you linger on it for months or years.

I repeat - if you do it relatively fast (in 2-3 weeks), it is not nearly as hard or painful as if you linger on it for months or years. Infact, it is completely painless, with the only exception being the transfer to suboxone, and some sleeping problems which are easily cured with xanax.

So, start at 8 mg - it's really important to start at 8 mg. Something about suboxone means it doesn't necessarily get more effective with the amount of dose, like other opiates. Take 8 mg for 2 more days and you will feel perfect, aside from cravings. Then, down to 6 mg. After 2-3 days, down to 4, then 2, then 1 then .5, then lick some dust. My friend detoxed in about 10 days with the only discomfort being the day he made the switch from methadone to suboxone (BTW if you are on methadone, SWIM knows this is bad to say, but it is highly recommended to switch back to heroin or any other short acting opiate for a few days before going on bupe). 10 days later he was clean and feeling fine.

SWIM is almost there, although he's taking a little longer. SWIM started at 8 mgs, and has went down 2 mg every 2-3 days. SWIM feels almost completely normal, the worst thing being the cravings. No physical pain, no sweats, so aches. Not even going from 4 to 2 to 1 mg, which is halfing your dose and sounds like it should otherwise cause you some pain.

If you don't believe me that faster is better, go do some research. The vast majority of people who have been on suboxone for months or years say that when they taper down, they feel awful even if it's a small amount; and worse, that when they finally stop, even if they were down to .25 mgs, they go through about a week of horrible withdrawals.

I'm convinced that fast is the way to do it. It's fucking amazing that SWIM went from 8 mgs to 2 mgs in 7 days, with NO ill effects. SWIM thought from his past suboxone experiences, starting at high doses and what not, that suboxone was a shitty drug and didn't work for him - but this progress has been amazing, and he's convinced that the trick is to start low (suck the first day up) and lower every 2-3 days. Don't let your body acclaimate too much to suboxone or it becomes a much, much more painful thing to do.

[Richard_smoker]

I totally agree with you, that faster IS better.

I would also totally support your decision to draw this last step or two out over the next few weeks...including the days you're only taking "dust."

Relapse is a very real possibility with too rapid of a buprenorphine experience. although, granted, you will be avoiding the HELL of buprenorphine addiction, tolerance, withdrawal.

I would have to say that in retrospect, it's probably better to do a fast buprenorphine conversion, then taper... otherwise, you're risking the aforementioned hell that is associated with buprenorphine addiction.

I hate to admit this, but I think that the increased incidence of RELAPSE might just be an acceptable risk for many people compared to spending years on buprenorphine.

Problem with bupe: it is a very effective deterrent to taking "other" opiates (i.e. your drug of choice). why? because as long as you stay on bupe, your opiate receptors are basically blocked to the effects of heroin, pain pills, etc. NOW, it might seem like a great thing that after 6 months or 1 year or 2 years of taking bupe, you will have TOTALLY forgotten about your Drug of choice.

So, in a way, chronic bupe can extinguish your original habit.

But trust me when I say that there's a devil hiding in your closet. That devil lies in the bupe itself.

after 6+ weeks of tapering, swim has gone from 16mg/day down to 0.35mg twice/day. Easy? hardly... in fact, it's been one of the most difficult, trying times in his life. FOR SIX+ WEEKS!!!

sad thing is that there's still no end in sight...he tried to go from 0.35mg twice/day down to once/day yesterday and couldn't sleep ALL NIGHT due to RESTLESS LEGS from HELL!

I know that many of you will say that kicking heroin is harder... if so, then i imagine that there are many people who resort to suicide when facing imminent withdrawals. -Dick