Drug info - Morphine to Oxycodone

[Absu]

Hi, is there a thread that swim could read about making oxycodone from morphine? Is it someone that only swim that is an experienced chemist could understand?

[fiveleggedrat]

Oxycodone is an opioid analgesic medication synthesized from thebaine.

Generally, opioid chem is complicated shit. As in, we aren't talking cooking meth here. Lab grade stuff. Sorry.

[Oneiros]

Morphine to hydromorphone, though, is a piece of cake.

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[Absu]

and hydromorphone to oxycodone? where swim is oxycodone doesnt exist, so researchers want to know whats the most similar salt they can make out of morphine since thats all there is here in Africa.

[fiveleggedrat]

Just asking, why is it so important to get oxycodone? There are many other better opioids, in Swim's opinion.

Going to go out on a limb and make the assumption hydromorphone in no way can become oxycodone. Just does not make sense.

You can also make morphine to diacetylmorphine aka heroin. That's an easy one, no?

[jon-q]

In theory it is possible but you would be back tracking to codeine then to oxycodone at least this is a way swims mind can do it.

jon-q added 2 Minutes and 57 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by fiveleggedrat

Just asking, why is it so important to get oxycodone? There are many other better opioids, in Swim's opinion.



You can also make morphine to diacetylmorphine aka heroin. That's an easy one, no?

Swim seconds this!

[dscb17]

Originally Posted by Oneiros

Morphine to hydromorphone, though, is a piece of cake.

is it actually easy to convert morphine to hydromorphone?

and why would you do it?
how much hydromorphone do you get for the morphine you get in?
i must not be economical.

[fiveleggedrat]

Chemically speaking, yes, it is probably one of the easiest opioid synths there is. Swim'd be doing it if he had morphine.

Hydromorphone is rather well liked, and many consider it to be better than heroin and morphine. The rush is supposed to be better.

For Swim, it produces less mental fuzziness than heroin. More enjoyable.

[Oneiros]

How do you do it? Reflux in a protonic solvent in the presence of palldium black for a few hours. Done. Around 60% yields.

Is it worth it? I'd say so. Palladium is expensive as hell, but you don't need much and it can be recovered after the reaction for later use. Hydromorphone is considerably more potent by weight than morphine; these gains in potency more than make up for the lost yields.

Morphine to Heroin is also easy, but getting acetic anhydride is not.

You could go morphine -> codeine -> 14-hydroxycodeinone -> 14-hydroxy-7,8-dihydrocodeinone (oxycodone), but that's three fairly shittily yielding steps.

[dscb17]

swim knows about hydromorphone
swim just had a hard time believing the yields would be that good

[fiveleggedrat]

If Swim gets morphine, he knows he'll be doing a morphine -> hydromorphone. The effects of hydromorphone on him were better than heroin.

[dscb17]

Originally Posted by fiveleggedrat

If Swim gets morphine, he knows he'll be doing a morphine -> hydromorphone. The effects of hydromorphone on him were better than heroin.

swim strongly seconds the above notion

btw, does this process have to be started with morphine liposomal or can it start with morphine sulfate?

[jon-q]

Originally Posted by dscb17

swim strongly seconds the above notion

btw, does this process have to be started with morphine liposomal or can it start with morphine sulfate?

Swiy may want to do a little research into this process,to the trained chemical expert this is indeed a simple synthesis but to an unskilled person this may not be so easy...swims not being a dick,just wants to give swiy the heads up so to speak.....
This will give swiy a start point..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/hydromorphone

[Absu]

Swim is really curious about the stuff swiy guys are talking about, lets suppose swim was interested in making something new out of morphine for himself and some friends, since one of swims friends is a chemist, swim thought oxycodone would be a good idea, now swim thinks hydromorphone would be a better idea... swim is printing that article to see if the chemist can understand it easily, since he doesnt speak english... but if someone could post easy clear steps and instructions on how to make this process swim would really appreciate it!

Now regarding swims main doubt... lets say swiy would want to have a high/rush as good or better than what an 80mg oxy could give swiy... how many mgs of hydromorphone would swiy need/want?

Thanks a lot guys.

[fiveleggedrat]

On the high/rush thing, it TRULY depends on the person. Everyone reacts different to different doses of different drugs. As in, VERY different. It can be unsafe to assume that one can carry over from one drug to another. When using a drug you have not before, ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS start with a low dose. Work your way up with the doses, even if you work up all in one night or one usage time. Swim would have a lot more cases of OD on his hands if he was not careful.

If you post more, share info, get some feedback here, etc, you will eventually become a silver member, and gain access to the chemistry forum. Until then, keep asking stuff! Share with others on other parts of the site to. Make sure to avoid self incrimination.

[Absu]

Alright, so, I hope swiy can help swim out with this let swim put it in a new context starting from this new light of information.

Lets say swim had a friend that liked oxy, from out of town, so since there is no oxy where that person is now, swim would advice him to try hydromorphone, how much would be a good idea to start with? A safe, yet strong start.... all of this is probably going to go down between friends, so no money would be involved, but in a hypothethic scenario where that person would pay the amount he normally pays for an 80mg oxy, how much hydromorphone should he get, and yet, how much should he "take" to try it?

[fiveleggedrat]

Ok, lets try this out. Like I said, starting low is essential. Hydromorphone is rather powerful. Swim would be FUCKED on about 4-6mg of it intranasal, 20mg oral. (Hydromorphone is more than 2x as powerful when intranasal or rectal, and probably 4x or more stronger when IV/IM. Oral sucks for hydromorphone.)

A good starting dose? 1mg intranasal, 2mg oral. For nasal, dose and wait about 15 minutes at least before redosing. Oral, recommended to wait at least 45min-1 hour to redose, on empty stomach, and to be safe.

Swim will recount some doses to give an example.

Hydrocodone- First time:10mg, 20mg, 30mg, 40mg, 50mg, 60mg,70mg, 80mg
Third time: 20mg 40mg 70mg 100mg

Swim learned the dosing curve by starting slow and steady.

Hydromorphone Intranasal: 1mg, 1.5mg, 2mg, 3mg, 3.5mg, 4mg
Oral:
2mg, 4mg, 6mg, 8mg, 12mg, 16mg, 20mg, 22mg, 24mg, 26mg

By learning how quick and the effects of increasing a dose, you learn the individual proportions relating to how effects increase with dose.

I hope that helps. If not, ask Swim to clarify or whatever else you need.

[Absu]

Ok swim understands all of this, and what would be a good starting dose for oxycontin nasally/orally? these consecutives, 1, 1.5, 2mg etc are every 15 minutes?

[fiveleggedrat]

Yeah, thats how Swim does it. If Nasal hits quicker, it can be shortened to say 10 minutes, maybe even less. Things like cocaine hit very quick, like 1-2 minutes usually. Opioids take more time.

Nasal Oxycodone? Starting 5-10mg for a first timer. Starting at 10mg and adding 10mg at a time would be safe too, especially for those with at least some experience.

Orally, prob. the same thing, but with more time.

However, if you are like those people that take 500mg oxycodone per day, obviously none of this applies here.

If ya wanna match 80mg oxycodone, anywhere from 4-10mg intranasal would do that, maybe 20-40mg oral. Taking all that at once is a VERY bad idea if you aren't sure though.

Always play it safe. It's not worth suffocating over.

[tryptamaster]

yea wen swim was a noobto opiates 10mg of oxycodone was one helluva buzz now it doesnt touch him.

[fiveleggedrat]

Yes, tolerance can change doses insanely. Swim's first nod was on 150mg tramadol...ah, good fucking days!

His hydrocodone doses went from 20mg to 100mg. No physical tolerance, only mental. Physical tolerance is much greater than mental. Mental only has minor effects.

[Absu]

Alright well hello again, thanks a lot for helping swim out with this man, so swim guesses someone that is used to playing around with 80mg oxys wouldnt really be threatened by say, 6-7 mgs of hydromorphone right?
Anda another thing, lets say swim wants to make a lil morphine into hydromorphone, swim who knows about chemistry saw the recipe, but swim is curious, because the recipe mstates 3 different steps to doing it, step one involves:

water, hcl, nitrogen, palladium, hydrogen morphine and some time, the resultant is a 59% yield.,... so my guess is this is already consumable hydromorphone, but the procedure goes on, with another similar process, to make base hydromorphone with a 41% yield,. is this something else? and then the process goes on even further, with a similar process, leaveing what swim thinks is hydrochoride hydromorphone, is this something else from the hydromorphone we are talking about?

plz enlighten me about this.

[fiveleggedrat]

Hydromorphone base and hydrochloride are different forms of the same drug. I can't explain any better than that. A chem. book or chem expert can help much more than I can here. I am seriously lacking in chem. knowledge. I'm guessing the three steps are steps that convert morphine into different things before it becomes hydromorphone.

Yeah, 6-7mg hydromorphone intranasal is reasonable to 80mg oxycodone. Depends on the person, but in the right range.

[Absu]

Alright perfect... and if swiy takes that 6-7 mg orally, swiy will probably feel nothing?

I hope someone can help me out with that question then, because the person who said hydromophone was easy to make from morphine states u get 60% yield, and since the procedure states: 1st step, 59% of some sort of hydromorphone swim didnt quite get it, step 2: 41% hydromorphone base, and step 3: 20% hydromorphone hydrochloride.... swims guess is step 1 is enough to consider the job done... taking it from that 60 yield statement.. but.. swim isnt sure, I hope someone can help me out on this one.

[fiveleggedrat]

Yeah, likely.

For Swim, 4mg intranasal = 20mg orally. On average, that number for most people is closer to 4mg intranasal = 10-15mg orally.

The hydro must be carried through all steps to be the proper form a Swimmer would want. It needs to be hydro Hcl or hydrochloride. Base is another, different form of the drug. Unsure how base hydro would react on it's own as a substance. Def not a chem expert

A proper chemist could rip apart a morphine -> hydromorphone synth. Chemically speaking, it's rather straightforward and easy to do.