Health - Pain relief advice needed

[jon-q]

Swim recently replied to another swiys post with regards to pain relief and it dawned on swim that there may well be other swiys out there that are genuinely using opiates/opiods in an attempt to ease pain,swim would have assumed that the correct medicine,dosage and method of delivery was always given"anything other than doctors orders would be crazy"
However like most things in life doctors aint perfect and they sometimes get it wrong which leads me to this thread.Are there any other swims out there that use/have used opiates/opiods for analgesia,Is your medication effective,How do you maximise the effects,Effective combinations,opiate/opiod agonists/antagonists in terms of analgesia e.t.c e.t.c .
Hopefully this thread will grow into a "pain-relief" hand book where swims with genuine suffering may at least seek a little comfort.
Thanks in advance to any contributions.....swimQ

Reputation Comments on this post:

	another jon-q thread with a good topic and requesting good info for fourm members to research ,well done
	thanks hon!! ;)

[fiveleggedrat]

Swim personally has used methadone for analgesia before.

Pretty much all opioids have good potential for pain relief.

Also, Swim thinks anything in the morphine family would work better than codeine family drugs for pain. That's just Swim, though.

One combination that does wonders for Swim's random minor injuries is marijuana + opiates. The high is not as enjoyable is just straight opiates, but the pot adds an element that helps. Swim has noticed that just pot itself helps a lot too. Swim has knocked the shit out of his head/hurt his neck pretty bad before, and was stoned at the time and it wasn't even that big of a deal at the time.

Experimentation is key to finding a good pain relief recipe.

[cockney]

I am on Tramadol and Dihydrocodiene for persistant neck pain. This is as far as my doctor will go and the same with pain management, they all say this pain does not warrant anything stronger, personally I cannot see how anyone apart from the sufferer can make that desision.
I am scripted 400mg of tram a day and 240mg DHC, both to be taken four times a day but to achieve decent pain relief I wait as long as I can before taking the first two trams, take another two four hours later, i then take 3 or four DHC in one hit around 7pm, i'm then pain free for the evening, and feel pretty funky too ;-)
Taking more than 100mg of trams gives no more pain relief than the normal dose.

I have been scripted amitriptylin to potentiate but all these did were make it almost impossible to get up in the morning.
Nortroptyline seems no better but does help me sleep as the tramadol keeps me awake or more like a semi awake state, very nice if you have not got to get up the next morning.
Gabapentin did fcuk all.
Apparently my gp has no where else to go, I have told him I will end up sorting myself out by illicit means if need be and said I will hold him responable if I end up getting nicked for trying to get hold of something he could but will not prescribe because he doesn't think it my pain warrents anything stronger, well he is welcome to live with it for the two years I have had it and see how he feels...

So any contribution to this thread is welcome in my corner too.

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Thanks for your contribution.

[fiveleggedrat]

cockney, self incrimination is forbidden. Using SWIM or similar is required.

I do understand the pain thing. Swim suffered a back accident as a child that showed no physical damage, even though he suffered from pain pretty bad back then. He still has neuropathic pain but no doctor will prescribe him anything but APAP or ibuprofen pills.

Swim has been self medicating for 2 years now or so. He only discovered the glory that is marijuana and opioids in the past year, so that's when it got effective. Sadly, Swim is poor and can only afford to medicate rarely, and uses the marijuana for the pain far more than anything else.

Swim also suffers from pretty bad nausea, intense stomach pains, and vomiting. Some have speculated it is gastritis, which sounds like bullshit to Swim. Again, Swim can get nothing for his pain. Doctors are almost useless today.

Swim is also 19 years old, so he is automatically assumed to be drugseeking/addicted.

[TheNewLeft]

swim lives in canada and has had basically the opposite experience with his doctor...

his doctor would gladly write scripts for oxycocet (5/325) hycodan (1mg/1ml), ativan, xanax and imovane.

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Thanks for your contribution.

[cockney]

[quote=fiveleggedrat;470761]cockney, self incrimination is forbidden. Using SWIM or similar is required.

Appreciated m8 but script is legal and legit, nothing to incriminate, even found this board looking for advise on pain relief.

You have your work cut out, if someone in their 30's from a professional background cannot get meds, then someone in their late teens is screwed.

CWE on paramol if your in the UK can apparently yield usefull amounts of DHC but expensive but me or my mate swim would never advise anyone to do this or read tutorials on the subject.
Maybe a combination of prescribed meds, pain gels and excercise may help, posture can be adapted to deal with some pain in certain area's and has helped in the past. Also a good nights rest, although this makes my neck worse if I sleep too long.

I would ask to be refered to a pain management clinic if you have not done so already, GP's are reluctent to put people on the last tier of pain relief, rightly or wrongly, it's just the way it is here.
Will be interestin gto see if anyone has any 'legal' ways of increasing the pain killing potential of commonly prescribed analgesics.

[jon-q]

Swim is really greatfull for all of swiys posts this is just the kind of information and debate i am looking for keep it comming.
And remember children legal or not self incrimination is not allowed.
please use swim or my pal e.t.c e.t.c weasel works well or ferret, budgie....

[fiveleggedrat]

Yes, the forum prevents incrimination in regards to international scale, not just where you or Swiy happens to live.

Sadly, the US has serious fucking hangups on opioids, and even simple drugs like codeine and DHC are scheduled. If Swim wants real pain relief from a real pain drug, it's down to the corner in the ghetto for a heroin bag or two.

Swim would be content with at least codeine, but nope, the US puts it into loopholes that prevent poor people from getting it.

How in the hell can someone try to tell others that looking for pain relief is wrong or drug seeking?!

[thebige]

When swim was 14 years old he developed severe pain in both knees,as the day would progress it seemed to get worse.Swim was in High School and when gym class came around he would find out what he would be doing in class that day,if the activity was something like ping pong he would go to class.If the class was going to run track,he would skip gym and go to the smoking courtyard to hang out with his derelect metalhead friends.Belive it or not we were allowed to smoke cigarettes during school hours at one of the courtyards,as long as we were on school property.Ha Gotta love the public school system! As time went on swim would have a hard time even walking up flights of stairs to get to classes on the higher floors,and started to skip classes that were upstairs.At some point school called his mother and complained that he hadn't been showing up for certain classes.Swim dosen't remember his mom being mad at him for skipping class but she did seem annoyed that the school called and complained. He told his tale of extreme pain in his knees and was taken to a doctor to get checked out. At the doctors no x-rays were taken(he must have had x-ray vision,I guess)but he did check swims knee reflexes.After much deep thinking,useing all of his years of medical training,experience and wisdom the doctor arrived at a diagnosis and said............drumroll............"There is nothing wrong with his knee's." Everyone seemed satisfied with this answer except swim.Swim tried asprin and whatever otc pain reliever that he could find in his home.Nothing was effective for pain relief.The next week,unhappy,swim found himself at the school library.Where he found a set of books on drugs,alcohol,uses and abuse etc.The books were neither pro-drug or anti-drug,just good complete information (no internet or drug-fourms then).So after much reading and checking the inventory of the schools young businessmen and what they had for sale,swim decided to go for one gram of Opium to start.He had experimented with smoking weed for pain relief(very scientificly mind you)and found it wasn't effective for him.Swim belives that smoking weed can help change his perception of pain,but for something like nerve damage/inflamed nerve roots,the weed just didn't didn't work very good for him.He did find that the opium was affordable,readily available and sometimes overly effective.He used opium for about the next year off and on for pain control for his knees.Now he is not going to lie and say "I just used it for pain and didn't use it to get high."what a load of bullshit that line is!Swim got high.....very,very high and enjoyed every damn minute of it.But at that age swim could enjoy most things in life without the use of drugs and being high.And he still can but he needed the pain relief to acomplish the simple act of walking to attend classes.Because that remedy of pain relief/control was sought but denied by a doctor whose job description includes providing treatment and care for a patients physical suffering and physical pain.For whatever reason the doctor did not provide treatment so that left a fourteen year old boy,that has no medical training to learn about his symptoms/ailment,learn how to treat it with a proper drug,seek out and purchase the correct drug and then learn how to administer it and the right doseage to treat the ailment effectively.Now who said I didn't learn anything in high school! HA............Fast foward to the age of twenty three and swim was watching CNN.They had a report on "a new study" that showed that teenage boys and girls going through puberty often grow so fast that it can cause great stress on bones and joints,leading to sometimes extreme pain causing difficulty walking or correct shoulder,arm movement etc. Gee...did I ever tell ya Thanks Doc!...............Again, fast foward to today and due to a lifetime of sometimes comical accidents and injurys swim suffers with chronic pain and is lucky to now have a doctor that treats his conditions properly using narcotic pain relivers as needed.And swim uses narcotic pain relivers to get high as needed.Having CP can sometimes feel like a curse,and Im sure some might disagree but having to take narcotics everyday is not always an ideal solution.Like being poor and then winning millions in the lottery ......you are still going to have money problems ....but just a diffrent kind.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thanks for the posts your input is most welcome sorry for the delay.......

[fiveleggedrat]

Many deaths and addictions could be prevented by doctors actually giving patients the medicine they need.

Swim would not be so knee deep in drugs if he could get the pain medicine and the anxiety medicine he feels he needs to function well.

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Thanks for your contribution....

[jon-q]

Thank you swiythebige as ever your posts are most informative...It also sounds like you could have good grounds for "malpractice/miss-diagnosis.

Swims not sure about doctors when dealing with painkillers,they either assume your a drug crazed heroin fiend trying to obtain some free/legit narcotics or the Dr is paranoid there going to give you a uncontrollable drug addiction,strange then how they will quite easily deliver up a repeat prescription for benzos e.t.c
An old aunt recently had her co-codamol 30/500 stoped by the Dr on health grounds,she's been taking them occasionally for the last 10yrs for back pain...she is 85yrs old.
Another good example of paranoid Dr's unwilling to prescribe was when swim had a surgical treatment on his nether-regions,on awakening from the anesthetic great pain was felt i asked if anything could be done to ease the pain and was informed that the maximum amount of paracetamol had already been administered,several hours later and after great pleading for mercy swim got 1 30/500mg codeine tablet(all because swim is a user)

Again many thanks for all swiys replies and remember "no self incrimination"

[cockney]

Originally Posted by fiveleggedrat

How in the hell can someone try to tell others that looking for pain relief is wrong or drug seeking?!

Exactly, pain is subjective, no one person is the same.

It may be as mentioned above that doctors do not want to put people in a position where they could be liable if that person decended into drug hell, but effective pain relief should not be avoided to protect a doctor or his practice. SWIM is sure anyones pet monkey would sign a disclaimer stating they would not sue the practice when they become dependant, as long as the practice in return offer help to deal with that dependence, and lets be honest, long term use of even 8/500 codeine will lead to a dependence if used long enough.

SWIM would say it was down to trust between patient and doctor but SWIM has known his doctor for ten years and knows there would be no abuse of that trust.
But again, as mentioned above, if your pet monkey is in pain he will eventually explore avenues he may well have never done before ( or revisit the past), This will not end well..
It is malpractice, but do you risk being struck off your doctors register because you have complained, especially if up till now this doctor/practice had taken care of a whole family of monkeys very well.

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Good post.

[LostAndFound]

WOW!! Swim could write a book on this--and is unsure where to start!!
Swim was blessed with a very rare genetic disorder--actually, it is a slight mutation of NPS.
Swim is hesitant to say much more as this disorder is rare, AND, swim is involved in MMJ legalization--NPS is on the top of the list in many states that medical marijuana has been approved in some fashion. (obviously, also for FEDERAL legalization considering the fights taking place here in US between State officials and the DEA.) Unfortunately, swim knows VERY few people in this town and would not have the faintest idea where to look for MJ. Swim DOES recommend MJ for muscular/skeletal problems--basically, anything with swelling also. A new study as of @ 2 months ago shows components of cannabis work together to work as--and this is what THRILLED swim--a stronger anti-inflammatory with NO GASTRIC involvement. Swim thinks maybe *strange* excite her these days. Swim will also try to find copy of this study to pass on--the MMJ groups have it on their sites.
Swim is a former medical professional--even went through over 2 years of med school before having to drop out, partially due to physical reasons.
During most of swim's life, her "double-jointedness" was an advantage--gymnastics, FSU's Flying High Circus, and some other things including some "minor" weight-lifting. Because of the rarity of NPS, the docs didn't know enough to tell swim she shouldn't be doing these things.
Anyways, fast forward 15 yrs or so and swim had begun having problems lifting patients as a paramedic. Swim was personal friends with an orthopedist who *promised* he knew EXACTLY what to do about it. Yea, well, swim was in intense PT for 2 years before getting back range of motion and weight bearing on her rt knee. That's when she went back to school, despite going through a divorce. Longer story short, less than 10 years later, swim was thrown from a horse and fractured 2 lumbar vertebrae. Swim hasn't been the same since, particularly since her fiance passed on unexpectedly almost 3 years ago. He had helped swim with getting back into working out as well as helping with the dislocations. Swim had also taken up yoga, which helped IMMENSELY. She had refrained from using narcotics up until 8 years ago when her docs gave her no choice because the repeated, constant use of NSAID's, (anti-inflammatories), had, basically, eaten through her stomach one too many times.
That first pain mgt doc tried her on darvocet first and when that no longer worked, (and after yet another visit to the hospital with bleeding ulcers), he put her on the fentanyl patch--increasing her dose over a year to 125 mcgs. (A BIT too much, too fast, swim also had to take Zofran).
Needless to say, it wasn't long before more problems required more relief because of tolerance. Swim was put on Hydrocodone as an adjunct to the fentanyl. That was when swim decided to move to where she lives now, and live and work in a yoga ashram with a "health center" promoting "natural" alternatives. She learned a LOT, and was able to bring her patch down to just 25mcg's and NO hydro. The herbal supplements, yoga and homeopathics which were designed specifically to swims problems, worked wonders!! Unfortunately, Swim had to leave because of an "ethical disagreement" in her job as webmaster....(swim had been TAUGHT by this Tantric/Hindu Path that Honesty was one of the MOST important things in life--however, the "teachers" there didn't exactly practice what they preached--shall we say...)
Her regimen of supplements had been FREE while living and working there, and were to cost over $500/MONTH after she left for the same ones!! When she attempted to get a job and insurance, it became VERY clear that it would cost WAAY more than she could earn at this time. Ethically, Insurance Companies aren't supposed to be able to turn you down flatly--however, they have NO problem pricing you out of the market.
Swim went on disability and Medicaid--federal health insurance. Swim didn't qualify for "regular" disability and Medicare because her ex-husband had committed tax fraud while he and swim were separated--it took awhile for swim to find this out and that she was also responsible for his screw-ups, as usual.
At first, Swim had a WONDERFUL doc who even went 800 miles to a symposium on NPS to learn more about her. After 6 months, this wonderful man could no longer afford to practice in this area because of the worsening malpractice crisis. She was "turned over", hesitantly, to his partner--who REALLY didn't want to take her case on, AND, who had NO experience in pain management. He is also VERY paranoid about prescribing narcotics--this area is within 3 hours of two major cities and had become a haven for folks to get large amounts of prescription drugs,..and then either abuse them themselves, or take them back to sell.
Needless to say, just in the past 6 months, Swim was forced to come off of the patch completely, and the oxycodone and methadone she had been given to supplement the patch, was also reduced.
Basically, swim's tolerance has ballooned, at the same time her pain got worse--being diagnosed with 8 compression fractures of the spine and MUCH more frequent dislocations as well as other fractures. She is in a position now where she gets VERY desperate, looking for ANY way to potentiate what she has. She had "squirreled away" 2 of the 25mcg patches--or, rather, that is what she has left. She has been TRYING to go through the IMMENSE amount of information in this incredible forum for ways to accomplish this. She sleeps for just 1-2 hours at a time, never any longer than that because IF she "pops" something out, which she usually does, if she doesn't "pop" it back, it swells,..and THAT can be a disaster.
Swim can not afford to move right now, she also no longer has a car--even if she did, the doc wouldn't let her drive because of glaucoma. (NOT serious, but can get bad enough they don't want her driving). If it wasn't for her family--who live down south, swim doesn't want to think about how she could afford to live. No other doc within over 200 miles will take swim on as a patient. She has to go about 3 hours to get to see the only ortho who will treat her and when she has something urgent, she has to go over an hour to an ER that will treat her. The local hospital, which it's rumored is closing soon anyways, calls her a "drug addict" and won't treat her. <sigh>
Except for a few instances 3-5 yrs ago when swim's fiance had acquired some marijuana--it had been 25 yrs since swim did any "illegal" drugs, and because of her profession, had refused narcotics until she had no choice. (I'd forgotten to mention, that the evening swim partook of her fiance's "surprise" for her, swim can honestly say that she felt better that evening, slept better, with only ONE minor dislocation, NO swelling, and awoke the following morning "clear", bright-eyed, rested, and with more energy than her fiance knew what to do with, --she hasn't had another evening like that since. Swim actively pursues MMJ issues on the State AND Federal level, but is not very optimistic about her particular State right now.
Some folks...
At this point, and with not much else to lose, swim is open to ANY suggestions. Swim's son is going to try and send her some seeds..he offered some shrooms, but swim is afraid he may get into trouble for that. Others with NPS and access to MMJ have had an absolute miracle in recovering from many of the things we have problems with. Although swim's case is a LITTLE more complicated, she hopes that one day she can also get back to a fairly normal life instead of laying on a heating pad almost every day. (or ice packs.)
THEN, she would even be VERY open for a trip to see her son and experience the wonderful world of shrooms again!!
Thanks for reading swim's novella!!

Reputation Comments on this post:

thanks for the post your input is most welcome...swimQ

[thebige]

Just wanted to answer a couple of questions from the original post:Meds effective?..Well for the most part the meds I am given by my doctor are effective(if I use them properly!) When my pain level is low,they kick ass-and swim still can get euphoria from them.But when my pain level is high or extreamly high,I can take quick acting breakthru meds,and extra, long acting narcotics and it sometimes will not even come close to reducing the pain to a tolerable level.[pain level is alway changing through out the day]And at high levels of pain,even with insane amounts of narcotics on board,euphoria is rarely felt. So when pain levels high,other then a persons eyeballs and sometimes shuffling of feet,it can be hard to tell if someone is on meds.Because the drug seems to be "used up" controling pain instead of causing light-headedness,slurred speech etc.and the person can seem to have no impairment.Now granted this will not be true for everyone,in every instance.But it seems to work this way for swim.And I know thats a weak theory, in basic terms,more of a personal observation of swims self.Hope you get the idea........To maximize effects:On occasion when swim feels he needs something extra he will add----dxm,small amounts,not trying to trip just potentiate his meds......Benedryl/Diphenhydramine 50-100mg......Tagamet/cimetidine 2-3 200mg tabs....fresh white grapefruit juice 8-12oz 1/2 hour before meds and 1 1/2 to 2 hours after ingestion another 8-12oz. Also Poppy Pod/opium tea(but thats a given).......And as far as med combos are concerned,there are so many prescribed medications out there that people find, that help potentiate their opiates.I won't get into a list of them and their effects right now.Also swim would rather do the otc methods first(unless they stop working) before moving up the "ladder" so to speak.........Swim has found these things work for him...I know your results may/will vary....take care

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Pretty much the same here, except, I don't ever recall being "buzzed" in ANY way from my pain meds. (Unless p...

[jon-q]

Swim is pleased with the level/quality of posts to date, and thanks each and every swiy for there posts without your input this thread would not exist.
Now swiyL/Found-it is swims understanding that you are currently taking 90mg methadone for general day-day pain relief and supplement this with oxycodone for breakthrough pain as and when required,assuming that this is the case swim would of thought{and swim is no doctor}that the renowned blocking effects of methadone could seriously reduce the analgesic potential of the oxycodone,food for thought perhaps?
The second nugget of info swim unearthed is in referance to methadone dosage,Methadone is usualy taken once-24hrs however the rate of metabolism can vary greatly from person-person resulting in the "elimination" half life being anyware from 4hrs-160hrs;also the analgesic activity is shorter than the pharmacological half-life,thus multi doseing may offer better results!
Swim is currently looking into the analgesic potentials of "nigela sativa" and "green tea extracts" the former was posted on this site by robocodeine.
Finaly swim can't understand how vast amounts of heroin can have no effect against tooth ache,yet one simple 30mg codeine tablet makes it vanish!!
Any thoughts comments on the above are welcome!!

[cockney]

^^
must have something to do with the action of meds blocking the pain signal as opposed to acting solely on the pleasure receptors ? Very strange though, swim has not and never will experiment with H for pain or otherwise so will never know, swim cousin od'd and died and swim's father was bang on for years before kicking and staying clean to this day. swim knows he's on a rocky path as it is with scripted pills and has to always remember this...
Brings to mind the theory about addiction being hereditary but lets save that for another thread.

thebige - swim also finds this and was actually not on form at work today due to this. Usual dose but not a bad pain day by usual standards and the meds took swim by the balls ) Other days the meds don't touch the sides and swim can almost feel agitation and leg cramps coming on, but fortunatly never arrives, swims doctor doesn't seem to understand the phrase 'break-through pain'.
It seems, like you say, the meds have nothing else to do so they just hit the pleasure receptors, would love to see some scientific backup on this

[LostAndFound]

Hi All!! My friend swim wanted to let you all know that she has decided to try DLPA--for 3 reasons--possible potentiating effects, the tolerance factor AND, it's own supposed chronic pain relief it's shown in studies. (There is a post, with supporting references, in the opiate potentiates thread) Swim's appointment isn't until Monday--and being just a week into wearing these damned braces, (back/shoulder/elbow and knee)--and having some serious pain resulting from these, (which her ortho promises will lessen with time...), she's REALLY hoping the DLPA will help. It MAY also help if she wore the things ALL the time, she just gets VERY annoyed with the 12 or so velcro straps, AND the pressure pains...
^^Swim doesn't think she's ever really been "high" from her meds when her pain was lower but she still took the regular dose...BUT, she HAS gotten nauseous during these times, along with the 1 or 2 times she took more than prescribed when her pain was low and she just wanted to see what it might feel like--she puked non-stop those times and hasn't tried again.
Swim also thanks swijon and is planning on asking for a change Monday. The methadone alone DID seem to help a little at the beginning--but, at times like right now, when she really hasn't much of the others left,..it doesn't even begin to dull the pain.--almost forgot swijon--swim believes that heroin and codeine fill up two slightly different opiate receptors--swim actually used a homeopathic for her dental pain called "Spigellia"--it was like a MIRACLE!! (BUT, as with ALL homeopathics swim and others have tried--what works for one, may not for another, AND, the ones that DO work, work like a charm, but if it doesn't work--there's NO effect at all--in other words--no middle ground it seems.
to all!!
PS is swim imagining this or does this website, ITSELF, have extremely addictive qualities??!!

[jon-q]

That was going to be one of my forthcoming threads.

Can drugs-forum damage your health....ha,ha,ha

[Lisa J]

SWIM has spent 25 years on prescribed opiates for pain and has used heroin on & off during this time. SWIM prescribed meds have included codeine, dihydrocodeine, buprenorphine, pethidine, fentanyl, methadone & gabapentin. Others used to help with symptoms but which were not actual pain killers were amitriptyline and baclofen.
SWIM found amitriptyline helped with nerve pain for a few weeks (does help with sleep) but then the dose needed increasing, the doctor kept upping the dose but each time SWIM put on more weight until she was 4 stone heavier!, SWIM opted to come off this medication. SWIM was then given gabapentin which helped a lot with nerve pain, electric shock sensations and the severe pins & needles. As for the opiates, SWIM started on codeine/paracetamol and worked her way up as her pain and/or tolerance increased. SWIM is now on 125mcg of fentanyl, 20mg methadone, 30/500 codeine/paracetamol up to 8 a day, 600mg gabapentin & 10mg baclofen.
SWIM has always had a problem with heroin and that has certainly contributed to the high dose of analgesics needed at present, it doesn't help when heroin is so damn good at taking both physical and emotional pain away. SWIM has had long periods in her life when she used heroin sensibly, perhaps 2 or 3 times a month, but every time she has been under severe stress through either pain or some emotional disaster she has developed a bad daily habit.
SWIM finds her present pain meds are good for her usual day to day pain, she is not pain free but she can function, if the pain gets really bad she will smoke some fentanyl or heroin or both. If SWIM was prescribed heroin she wouldn't need so much medication, all of which have potential side affects and could be damaging her body.
SWIM agrees with the earlier post in that her medication does not get her high because she is in pain, there are odd days where she does feel some affects and that's probably because her pain is less. When SWIM is in severe pain it takes a lot of heroin to get a good nod, this can be very frustrating when it's the nod she's after
SWIM thinks she's been very lucky with her doctors which have on the whole been good prescribers, only one let her down who after 3 visits where SWIM was in agony she still would not change or increase the medication. SWIM was going through a marriage breakup at the time also (which her ex blamed her pain for!!!) so there started a bad relapse on heroin, thank you doctor
The present GP fully understands the need for good pain control if SWIM isn't to relapse again and has arranged for SWIM to visit a pain clinic where it's hoped she will come off methadone and try oxycodone. SWIM has been struggling with her smoking of fentanyl/heroin over the last couple of weeks but thinks she's getting that back under control.
Opiates are great for relieving all sorts of pain, it's a shame so many doctors are frightened to prescribe them, does it matter that during the control of pain we also become dependent, after all it's only a problem if you cut off the supply isn't it?.
Good luck to all those seeking freedom from their pain & suffering, may all your GPs be good ones

Reputation Comments on this post:

thanks for the post your input is most welcome sorry for the delay..

[LostAndFound]

Swim wishes EVERYONE here the BEST this week...and asks for some prayers and positive thoughts today for her appointment. Swim doesn't know why she's so up-tight about talking to her doc--who KNOWS she has plenty of documentation for her need for pain meds,..but, despite spending the past 4 days, almost completely in bed with heating pads, and, actually, most of the past 2-3 months--she KNOWS that her doc will try and fight her on her insistence on going back on the patch. If he DOES keep fighting her, she has PLENTY of folks that can back up her condition the past few months. (Landlord is downstairs 12 hrs/day 7 days/week and has either been checking on swim personally, or sending up one of the other girls downstairs. His office is RIGHT under swims bedroom--<no wisecracks needed >--and swim thinks he gets scared when he doesn't hear any moving around up here--he knows @ swims ortho/+ problems, and has taken her to the hospital in another county for treatment before--almost like having another "Dad" downstairs..lol)
Anyways, time to get ready..appt in 2 hours. Hopefully, swim won't slip in the shower or fall down the stairs this time...
Will let other swimmers know how it goes!!
to all!!

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thanks for the posts your input is most welcome sorry for the delay.......

[jon-q]

Hi all swim...Q does not have a great deal more to report apart from thanking all who have contributed to this thread,i should have thanked you PERSONALLY! and i now see the error of my ways(i got a nudge)so to speak,anyway all good things come to those who wait!!!!
I have been looking in to G.T.E and nigela sativa oil the former certainly seems to have health benefits and the latter MAYBE has some pain relieving properties but how high the benefits is unknown,swim will spend many more hours researching and will let you know the outcome...
A final question i have is aimed at swiylostandfound=I hope you are ok and without being nosey did your doctors visit go ok?
Goodbye,farewell,auf wiedersehen,e.t.c
Laters....Q

[fiveleggedrat]

What is G.T.E? Also, I believe Nigella Sativa oil also has K opioid receptor agonist properties, which cause hallucinations and such. Let me look it up...Can't find anything. I do remember reading experience reports on it, and it made some people sick/hallucinate.

I feel your pain (not literally!) when it comes to finding good opioid agonists that are legal/easy to get/cheap. I've looked up about 100 lately in various chem supply houses, various analogues and unscheduled ones. Sad thing is, an IV dose of most of them costs anywhere from 50-1000 bucks a dose, depending on complexity.

If I or someone else did not suggest it, kratom has good potential for pain relief. Swim is still using marijuana for stomach/abdomen pain with no physical cause, and for when he has a minor injury too. Couchlock strains work much better for this than mental weed highs IMO.

I know this is the oldest advice, but Swiy should consider adding an NSAID if they do not take one. I recommend Naproxen Sodium.

[jon-q]

G.T.E= green tea extract,swim must point out that in the main i do not take opiates for pain relief (ocassionaly) but not as a matter of course~this may well change in the near future*******
swim believes nigela oil may have beneifits for "NERVE END" related pain but finding hard facts on this is very time consuming + many studies need to be bought (which is fair enough)...
Thanks for any help you can add/give.......

[fiveleggedrat]

Well. IMHO, I believe GTE is a lie, a nonsense marketing ploy with no real foundation. Green tea, just like other food/beverages is overhyped for health benefits that aren't there.

For example, my mother insists eating broccoli will prevent cancer growth in her. I asked for studies or proof, something other than "Health" news on the Tv. She could not even explain why they help. I hate when people claim something does something with no proof. /endrant

As for nigella sativa oil: I don't really see much going on here. I've read up on this a few months ago looking for new opioids. Here is some info:

Thymoquinone (TQ), derived from the medicinal plant Nigella sativa, exhibits antiinflammatory and anticancer activities through mechanism(s) that is not fully understood. Because numerous effects modulated by TQ can be linked to interference with the nuclear factor-B (NF-B) signaling, we investigated in detail the effect of this quinone on NF-B pathway. As examined by DNA binding, we found that TQ suppressed tumor necrosis factor–induced NF-B activation in a dose- and time-dependent manner and inhibited NF-B activation induced by various carcinogens and inflammatory stimuli. The suppression of NF-B activation correlated with sequential inhibition of the activation of IB kinase, IB phosphorylation, IB degradation, p65 phosphorylation, p65 nuclear translocation, and the NF-B–dependent reporter gene expression. TQ specifically suppressed the direct binding of nuclear p65 and recombinant p65 to the DNA, and this binding was reversed by DTT. However, TQ did not inhibit p65 binding to DNA when cells were transfected with the p65 plasmid containing cysteine residue 38 mutated to serine. TQ also down-regulated the expression of NF-B–regulated antiapoptotic (IAP1, IAP2, XIAP Bcl-2, Bcl-xL, and survivin), proliferative (cyclin D1, cyclooxygenase-2, and c-Myc), and angiogenic (matrix metalloproteinase-9 and vascular endothelial growth factor) gene products. This led to potentiation of apoptosis induced by tumor necrosis factor and chemotherapeutic agents. Overall, our results indicate that the anticancer and antiinflammatory activities previously assigned to TQ may be mediated in part through the suppression of the NF-B activation pathway, as shown here, and thus may have potential in treatment of myeloid leukemia and other cancers. (Mol Cancer Res 2008;6(6):1059–70)

Lots of studies going on for using this stuff and cancer prevention/treatment. Also, antiinflamitory properties. Can't find any papers of it being used for pain relief, although it occurs in regional folk medicine for the area this stuff occurs in naturally.

If you find any other natural opioids, please share. I have studied quite a few.

[sl1p609]

Potentiators, diphydramine ( Bendryl ) even breakthrough like closely related opiates . . http://www.pharmer.org/node/3757 and everyone favorite MJ to add to the mix because most people don't know that Tetrahydrocannibol contains the same propeties [ CYP450 ] as any natural ( Morphine Sulfate or semi-synthetic opiate ( codiene, hydrocodone, oxycodone, any codiene dirrivative, as far as hydromorphone and oxymorphone that I'm not certain for sure are semi-synthetic . . Is hydrom/ diludid . .
anyways this point leafs me to you tolerence quetion ,,.. global morph has a good calc. http://www.globalrph.com/narcotic.cgi

MJ usually the cheapest and best way to go for a goodnight sleep, but sometimes when i am bored i use Grapefruit juice 16oz and I only drink natrual lquids , as well some friends have told me that ant-acids ( tums ) work

you want to see a really cool reference page, I used to have the link somewhere posted on pharmer or maybe here .. i don't know but i'll get it to you .. there like a list of millions of products from ginseng to cat claw, even Thc, benzodiazepines which i don't agree with..

I have seen many topics about methylphendate ( rits ) to cause a longer pain lasting effect, but yet again i don't agree that. There a good reason why everyone chemical make up is made differently.

i think keeping it at a low level and find you best combo opiod routine and shcedule would be best, then follw the potentiator

I hope this gave you some insight or at least some plans , ( mother nature

Reputation Comments on this post:

Sorry,but rules are rules,re-post in a few days using swim e.t.c and i will make very beneficial amends to your rep...