Health - Pain relief advice needed

[jon-q]

Swim recently replied to another swiys post with regards to pain relief and it dawned on swim that there may well be other swiys out there that are genuinely using opiates/opiods in an attempt to ease pain,swim would have assumed that the correct medicine,dosage and method of delivery was always given"anything other than doctors orders would be crazy"
However like most things in life doctors aint perfect and they sometimes get it wrong which leads me to this thread.Are there any other swims out there that use/have used opiates/opiods for analgesia,Is your medication effective,How do you maximise the effects,Effective combinations,opiate/opiod agonists/antagonists in terms of analgesia e.t.c e.t.c .
Hopefully this thread will grow into a "pain-relief" hand book where swims with genuine suffering may at least seek a little comfort.
Thanks in advance to any contributions.....swimQ

Reputation Comments on this post:

	another jon-q thread with a good topic and requesting good info for fourm members to research ,well done
	thanks hon!! ;)

[fiveleggedrat]

Swim personally has used methadone for analgesia before.

Pretty much all opioids have good potential for pain relief.

Also, Swim thinks anything in the morphine family would work better than codeine family drugs for pain. That's just Swim, though.

One combination that does wonders for Swim's random minor injuries is marijuana + opiates. The high is not as enjoyable is just straight opiates, but the pot adds an element that helps. Swim has noticed that just pot itself helps a lot too. Swim has knocked the shit out of his head/hurt his neck pretty bad before, and was stoned at the time and it wasn't even that big of a deal at the time.

Experimentation is key to finding a good pain relief recipe.

[cockney]

I am on Tramadol and Dihydrocodiene for persistant neck pain. This is as far as my doctor will go and the same with pain management, they all say this pain does not warrant anything stronger, personally I cannot see how anyone apart from the sufferer can make that desision.
I am scripted 400mg of tram a day and 240mg DHC, both to be taken four times a day but to achieve decent pain relief I wait as long as I can before taking the first two trams, take another two four hours later, i then take 3 or four DHC in one hit around 7pm, i'm then pain free for the evening, and feel pretty funky too ;-)
Taking more than 100mg of trams gives no more pain relief than the normal dose.

I have been scripted amitriptylin to potentiate but all these did were make it almost impossible to get up in the morning.
Nortroptyline seems no better but does help me sleep as the tramadol keeps me awake or more like a semi awake state, very nice if you have not got to get up the next morning.
Gabapentin did fcuk all.
Apparently my gp has no where else to go, I have told him I will end up sorting myself out by illicit means if need be and said I will hold him responable if I end up getting nicked for trying to get hold of something he could but will not prescribe because he doesn't think it my pain warrents anything stronger, well he is welcome to live with it for the two years I have had it and see how he feels...

So any contribution to this thread is welcome in my corner too.

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Thanks for your contribution.

[fiveleggedrat]

cockney, self incrimination is forbidden. Using SWIM or similar is required.

I do understand the pain thing. Swim suffered a back accident as a child that showed no physical damage, even though he suffered from pain pretty bad back then. He still has neuropathic pain but no doctor will prescribe him anything but APAP or ibuprofen pills.

Swim has been self medicating for 2 years now or so. He only discovered the glory that is marijuana and opioids in the past year, so that's when it got effective. Sadly, Swim is poor and can only afford to medicate rarely, and uses the marijuana for the pain far more than anything else.

Swim also suffers from pretty bad nausea, intense stomach pains, and vomiting. Some have speculated it is gastritis, which sounds like bullshit to Swim. Again, Swim can get nothing for his pain. Doctors are almost useless today.

Swim is also 19 years old, so he is automatically assumed to be drugseeking/addicted.

[cockney]

[quote=fiveleggedrat;470761]cockney, self incrimination is forbidden. Using SWIM or similar is required.

Appreciated m8 but script is legal and legit, nothing to incriminate, even found this board looking for advise on pain relief.

You have your work cut out, if someone in their 30's from a professional background cannot get meds, then someone in their late teens is screwed.

CWE on paramol if your in the UK can apparently yield usefull amounts of DHC but expensive but me or my mate swim would never advise anyone to do this or read tutorials on the subject.
Maybe a combination of prescribed meds, pain gels and excercise may help, posture can be adapted to deal with some pain in certain area's and has helped in the past. Also a good nights rest, although this makes my neck worse if I sleep too long.

I would ask to be refered to a pain management clinic if you have not done so already, GP's are reluctent to put people on the last tier of pain relief, rightly or wrongly, it's just the way it is here.
Will be interestin gto see if anyone has any 'legal' ways of increasing the pain killing potential of commonly prescribed analgesics.

[jon-q]

Swim is really greatfull for all of swiys posts this is just the kind of information and debate i am looking for keep it comming.
And remember children legal or not self incrimination is not allowed.
please use swim or my pal e.t.c e.t.c weasel works well or ferret, budgie....

[TheNewLeft]

swim lives in canada and has had basically the opposite experience with his doctor...

his doctor would gladly write scripts for oxycocet (5/325) hycodan (1mg/1ml), ativan, xanax and imovane.

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Thanks for your contribution.

[thebige]

When swim was 14 years old he developed severe pain in both knees,as the day would progress it seemed to get worse.Swim was in High School and when gym class came around he would find out what he would be doing in class that day,if the activity was something like ping pong he would go to class.If the class was going to run track,he would skip gym and go to the smoking courtyard to hang out with his derelect metalhead friends.Belive it or not we were allowed to smoke cigarettes during school hours at one of the courtyards,as long as we were on school property.Ha Gotta love the public school system! As time went on swim would have a hard time even walking up flights of stairs to get to classes on the higher floors,and started to skip classes that were upstairs.At some point school called his mother and complained that he hadn't been showing up for certain classes.Swim dosen't remember his mom being mad at him for skipping class but she did seem annoyed that the school called and complained. He told his tale of extreme pain in his knees and was taken to a doctor to get checked out. At the doctors no x-rays were taken(he must have had x-ray vision,I guess)but he did check swims knee reflexes.After much deep thinking,useing all of his years of medical training,experience and wisdom the doctor arrived at a diagnosis and said............drumroll............"There is nothing wrong with his knee's." Everyone seemed satisfied with this answer except swim.Swim tried asprin and whatever otc pain reliever that he could find in his home.Nothing was effective for pain relief.The next week,unhappy,swim found himself at the school library.Where he found a set of books on drugs,alcohol,uses and abuse etc.The books were neither pro-drug or anti-drug,just good complete information (no internet or drug-fourms then).So after much reading and checking the inventory of the schools young businessmen and what they had for sale,swim decided to go for one gram of Opium to start.He had experimented with smoking weed for pain relief(very scientificly mind you)and found it wasn't effective for him.Swim belives that smoking weed can help change his perception of pain,but for something like nerve damage/inflamed nerve roots,the weed just didn't didn't work very good for him.He did find that the opium was affordable,readily available and sometimes overly effective.He used opium for about the next year off and on for pain control for his knees.Now he is not going to lie and say "I just used it for pain and didn't use it to get high."what a load of bullshit that line is!Swim got high.....very,very high and enjoyed every damn minute of it.But at that age swim could enjoy most things in life without the use of drugs and being high.And he still can but he needed the pain relief to acomplish the simple act of walking to attend classes.Because that remedy of pain relief/control was sought but denied by a doctor whose job description includes providing treatment and care for a patients physical suffering and physical pain.For whatever reason the doctor did not provide treatment so that left a fourteen year old boy,that has no medical training to learn about his symptoms/ailment,learn how to treat it with a proper drug,seek out and purchase the correct drug and then learn how to administer it and the right doseage to treat the ailment effectively.Now who said I didn't learn anything in high school! HA............Fast foward to the age of twenty three and swim was watching CNN.They had a report on "a new study" that showed that teenage boys and girls going through puberty often grow so fast that it can cause great stress on bones and joints,leading to sometimes extreme pain causing difficulty walking or correct shoulder,arm movement etc. Gee...did I ever tell ya Thanks Doc!...............Again, fast foward to today and due to a lifetime of sometimes comical accidents and injurys swim suffers with chronic pain and is lucky to now have a doctor that treats his conditions properly using narcotic pain relivers as needed.And swim uses narcotic pain relivers to get high as needed.Having CP can sometimes feel like a curse,and Im sure some might disagree but having to take narcotics everyday is not always an ideal solution.Like being poor and then winning millions in the lottery ......you are still going to have money problems ....but just a diffrent kind.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thanks for the posts your input is most welcome sorry for the delay.......

[fiveleggedrat]

Many deaths and addictions could be prevented by doctors actually giving patients the medicine they need.

Swim would not be so knee deep in drugs if he could get the pain medicine and the anxiety medicine he feels he needs to function well.

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Thanks for your contribution....

[jon-q]

Thank you swiythebige as ever your posts are most informative...It also sounds like you could have good grounds for "malpractice/miss-diagnosis.

Swims not sure about doctors when dealing with painkillers,they either assume your a drug crazed heroin fiend trying to obtain some free/legit narcotics or the Dr is paranoid there going to give you a uncontrollable drug addiction,strange then how they will quite easily deliver up a repeat prescription for benzos e.t.c
An old aunt recently had her co-codamol 30/500 stoped by the Dr on health grounds,she's been taking them occasionally for the last 10yrs for back pain...she is 85yrs old.
Another good example of paranoid Dr's unwilling to prescribe was when swim had a surgical treatment on his nether-regions,on awakening from the anesthetic great pain was felt i asked if anything could be done to ease the pain and was informed that the maximum amount of paracetamol had already been administered,several hours later and after great pleading for mercy swim got 1 30/500mg codeine tablet(all because swim is a user)

Again many thanks for all swiys replies and remember "no self incrimination"

[LostAndFound]

WOW!! Swim could write a book on this--and is unsure where to start!!
Swim was blessed with a very rare genetic disorder--actually, it is a slight mutation of NPS.
Swim is hesitant to say much more as this disorder is rare, AND, swim is involved in MMJ legalization--NPS is on the top of the list in many states that medical marijuana has been approved in some fashion. (obviously, also for FEDERAL legalization considering the fights taking place here in US between State officials and the DEA.) Unfortunately, swim knows VERY few people in this town and would not have the faintest idea where to look for MJ. Swim DOES recommend MJ for muscular/skeletal problems--basically, anything with swelling also. A new study as of @ 2 months ago shows components of cannabis work together to work as--and this is what THRILLED swim--a stronger anti-inflammatory with NO GASTRIC involvement. Swim thinks maybe *strange* excite her these days. Swim will also try to find copy of this study to pass on--the MMJ groups have it on their sites.
Swim is a former medical professional--even went through over 2 years of med school before having to drop out, partially due to physical reasons.
During most of swim's life, her "double-jointedness" was an advantage--gymnastics, FSU's Flying High Circus, and some other things including some "minor" weight-lifting. Because of the rarity of NPS, the docs didn't know enough to tell swim she shouldn't be doing these things.
Anyways, fast forward 15 yrs or so and swim had begun having problems lifting patients as a paramedic. Swim was personal friends with an orthopedist who *promised* he knew EXACTLY what to do about it. Yea, well, swim was in intense PT for 2 years before getting back range of motion and weight bearing on her rt knee. That's when she went back to school, despite going through a divorce. Longer story short, less than 10 years later, swim was thrown from a horse and fractured 2 lumbar vertebrae. Swim hasn't been the same since, particularly since her fiance passed on unexpectedly almost 3 years ago. He had helped swim with getting back into working out as well as helping with the dislocations. Swim had also taken up yoga, which helped IMMENSELY. She had refrained from using narcotics up until 8 years ago when her docs gave her no choice because the repeated, constant use of NSAID's, (anti-inflammatories), had, basically, eaten through her stomach one too many times.
That first pain mgt doc tried her on darvocet first and when that no longer worked, (and after yet another visit to the hospital with bleeding ulcers), he put her on the fentanyl patch--increasing her dose over a year to 125 mcgs. (A BIT too much, too fast, swim also had to take Zofran).
Needless to say, it wasn't long before more problems required more relief because of tolerance. Swim was put on Hydrocodone as an adjunct to the fentanyl. That was when swim decided to move to where she lives now, and live and work in a yoga ashram with a "health center" promoting "natural" alternatives. She learned a LOT, and was able to bring her patch down to just 25mcg's and NO hydro. The herbal supplements, yoga and homeopathics which were designed specifically to swims problems, worked wonders!! Unfortunately, Swim had to leave because of an "ethical disagreement" in her job as webmaster....(swim had been TAUGHT by this Tantric/Hindu Path that Honesty was one of the MOST important things in life--however, the "teachers" there didn't exactly practice what they preached--shall we say...)
Her regimen of supplements had been FREE while living and working there, and were to cost over $500/MONTH after she left for the same ones!! When she attempted to get a job and insurance, it became VERY clear that it would cost WAAY more than she could earn at this time. Ethically, Insurance Companies aren't supposed to be able to turn you down flatly--however, they have NO problem pricing you out of the market.
Swim went on disability and Medicaid--federal health insurance. Swim didn't qualify for "regular" disability and Medicare because her ex-husband had committed tax fraud while he and swim were separated--it took awhile for swim to find this out and that she was also responsible for his screw-ups, as usual.
At first, Swim had a WONDERFUL doc who even went 800 miles to a symposium on NPS to learn more about her. After 6 months, this wonderful man could no longer afford to practice in this area because of the worsening malpractice crisis. She was "turned over", hesitantly, to his partner--who REALLY didn't want to take her case on, AND, who had NO experience in pain management. He is also VERY paranoid about prescribing narcotics--this area is within 3 hours of two major cities and had become a haven for folks to get large amounts of prescription drugs,..and then either abuse them themselves, or take them back to sell.
Needless to say, just in the past 6 months, Swim was forced to come off of the patch completely, and the oxycodone and methadone she had been given to supplement the patch, was also reduced.
Basically, swim's tolerance has ballooned, at the same time her pain got worse--being diagnosed with 8 compression fractures of the spine and MUCH more frequent dislocations as well as other fractures. She is in a position now where she gets VERY desperate, looking for ANY way to potentiate what she has. She had "squirreled away" 2 of the 25mcg patches--or, rather, that is what she has left. She has been TRYING to go through the IMMENSE amount of information in this incredible forum for ways to accomplish this. She sleeps for just 1-2 hours at a time, never any longer than that because IF she "pops" something out, which she usually does, if she doesn't "pop" it back, it swells,..and THAT can be a disaster.
Swim can not afford to move right now, she also no longer has a car--even if she did, the doc wouldn't let her drive because of glaucoma. (NOT serious, but can get bad enough they don't want her driving). If it wasn't for her family--who live down south, swim doesn't want to think about how she could afford to live. No other doc within over 200 miles will take swim on as a patient. She has to go about 3 hours to get to see the only ortho who will treat her and when she has something urgent, she has to go over an hour to an ER that will treat her. The local hospital, which it's rumored is closing soon anyways, calls her a "drug addict" and won't treat her. <sigh>
Except for a few instances 3-5 yrs ago when swim's fiance had acquired some marijuana--it had been 25 yrs since swim did any "illegal" drugs, and because of her profession, had refused narcotics until she had no choice. (I'd forgotten to mention, that the evening swim partook of her fiance's "surprise" for her, swim can honestly say that she felt better that evening, slept better, with only ONE minor dislocation, NO swelling, and awoke the following morning "clear", bright-eyed, rested, and with more energy than her fiance knew what to do with, --she hasn't had another evening like that since. Swim actively pursues MMJ issues on the State AND Federal level, but is not very optimistic about her particular State right now.
Some folks...
At this point, and with not much else to lose, swim is open to ANY suggestions. Swim's son is going to try and send her some seeds..he offered some shrooms, but swim is afraid he may get into trouble for that. Others with NPS and access to MMJ have had an absolute miracle in recovering from many of the things we have problems with. Although swim's case is a LITTLE more complicated, she hopes that one day she can also get back to a fairly normal life instead of laying on a heating pad almost every day. (or ice packs.)
THEN, she would even be VERY open for a trip to see her son and experience the wonderful world of shrooms again!!
Thanks for reading swim's novella!!

Reputation Comments on this post:

thanks for the post your input is most welcome...swimQ

[thebige]

Just wanted to answer a couple of questions from the original post:Meds effective?..Well for the most part the meds I am given by my doctor are effective(if I use them properly!) When my pain level is low,they kick ass-and swim still can get euphoria from them.But when my pain level is high or extreamly high,I can take quick acting breakthru meds,and extra, long acting narcotics and it sometimes will not even come close to reducing the pain to a tolerable level.[pain level is alway changing through out the day]And at high levels of pain,even with insane amounts of narcotics on board,euphoria is rarely felt. So when pain levels high,other then a persons eyeballs and sometimes shuffling of feet,it can be hard to tell if someone is on meds.Because the drug seems to be "used up" controling pain instead of causing light-headedness,slurred speech etc.and the person can seem to have no impairment.Now granted this will not be true for everyone,in every instance.But it seems to work this way for swim.And I know thats a weak theory, in basic terms,more of a personal observation of swims self.Hope you get the idea........To maximize effects:On occasion when swim feels he needs something extra he will add----dxm,small amounts,not trying to trip just potentiate his meds......Benedryl/Diphenhydramine 50-100mg......Tagamet/cimetidine 2-3 200mg tabs....fresh white grapefruit juice 8-12oz 1/2 hour before meds and 1 1/2 to 2 hours after ingestion another 8-12oz. Also Poppy Pod/opium tea(but thats a given).......And as far as med combos are concerned,there are so many prescribed medications out there that people find, that help potentiate their opiates.I won't get into a list of them and their effects right now.Also swim would rather do the otc methods first(unless they stop working) before moving up the "ladder" so to speak.........Swim has found these things work for him...I know your results may/will vary....take care

Reputation Comments on this post:

Pretty much the same here, except, I don't ever recall being "buzzed" in ANY way from my pain meds. (Unless p...

[jon-q]

Swim is pleased with the level/quality of posts to date, and thanks each and every swiy for there posts without your input this thread would not exist.
Now swiyL/Found-it is swims understanding that you are currently taking 90mg methadone for general day-day pain relief and supplement this with oxycodone for breakthrough pain as and when required,assuming that this is the case swim would of thought{and swim is no doctor}that the renowned blocking effects of methadone could seriously reduce the analgesic potential of the oxycodone,food for thought perhaps?
The second nugget of info swim unearthed is in referance to methadone dosage,Methadone is usualy taken once-24hrs however the rate of metabolism can vary greatly from person-person resulting in the "elimination" half life being anyware from 4hrs-160hrs;also the analgesic activity is shorter than the pharmacological half-life,thus multi doseing may offer better results!
Swim is currently looking into the analgesic potentials of "nigela sativa" and "green tea extracts" the former was posted on this site by robocodeine.
Finaly swim can't understand how vast amounts of heroin can have no effect against tooth ache,yet one simple 30mg codeine tablet makes it vanish!!
Any thoughts comments on the above are welcome!!

[cockney]

^^
must have something to do with the action of meds blocking the pain signal as opposed to acting solely on the pleasure receptors ? Very strange though, swim has not and never will experiment with H for pain or otherwise so will never know, swim cousin od'd and died and swim's father was bang on for years before kicking and staying clean to this day. swim knows he's on a rocky path as it is with scripted pills and has to always remember this...
Brings to mind the theory about addiction being hereditary but lets save that for another thread.

thebige - swim also finds this and was actually not on form at work today due to this. Usual dose but not a bad pain day by usual standards and the meds took swim by the balls ) Other days the meds don't touch the sides and swim can almost feel agitation and leg cramps coming on, but fortunatly never arrives, swims doctor doesn't seem to understand the phrase 'break-through pain'.
It seems, like you say, the meds have nothing else to do so they just hit the pleasure receptors, would love to see some scientific backup on this

[LostAndFound]

Hi All!! My friend swim wanted to let you all know that she has decided to try DLPA--for 3 reasons--possible potentiating effects, the tolerance factor AND, it's own supposed chronic pain relief it's shown in studies. (There is a post, with supporting references, in the opiate potentiates thread) Swim's appointment isn't until Monday--and being just a week into wearing these damned braces, (back/shoulder/elbow and knee)--and having some serious pain resulting from these, (which her ortho promises will lessen with time...), she's REALLY hoping the DLPA will help. It MAY also help if she wore the things ALL the time, she just gets VERY annoyed with the 12 or so velcro straps, AND the pressure pains...
^^Swim doesn't think she's ever really been "high" from her meds when her pain was lower but she still took the regular dose...BUT, she HAS gotten nauseous during these times, along with the 1 or 2 times she took more than prescribed when her pain was low and she just wanted to see what it might feel like--she puked non-stop those times and hasn't tried again.
Swim also thanks swijon and is planning on asking for a change Monday. The methadone alone DID seem to help a little at the beginning--but, at times like right now, when she really hasn't much of the others left,..it doesn't even begin to dull the pain.--almost forgot swijon--swim believes that heroin and codeine fill up two slightly different opiate receptors--swim actually used a homeopathic for her dental pain called "Spigellia"--it was like a MIRACLE!! (BUT, as with ALL homeopathics swim and others have tried--what works for one, may not for another, AND, the ones that DO work, work like a charm, but if it doesn't work--there's NO effect at all--in other words--no middle ground it seems.
to all!!
PS is swim imagining this or does this website, ITSELF, have extremely addictive qualities??!!

[jon-q]

That was going to be one of my forthcoming threads.

Can drugs-forum damage your health....ha,ha,ha

[sl1p609]

Potentiators, diphydramine ( Bendryl ) even breakthrough like closely related opiates . . http://www.pharmer.org/node/3757 and everyone favorite MJ to add to the mix because most people don't know that Tetrahydrocannibol contains the same propeties [ CYP450 ] as any natural ( Morphine Sulfate or semi-synthetic opiate ( codiene, hydrocodone, oxycodone, any codiene dirrivative, as far as hydromorphone and oxymorphone that I'm not certain for sure are semi-synthetic . . Is hydrom/ diludid . .
anyways this point leafs me to you tolerence quetion ,,.. global morph has a good calc. http://www.globalrph.com/narcotic.cgi

MJ usually the cheapest and best way to go for a goodnight sleep, but sometimes when i am bored i use Grapefruit juice 16oz and I only drink natrual lquids , as well some friends have told me that ant-acids ( tums ) work

you want to see a really cool reference page, I used to have the link somewhere posted on pharmer or maybe here .. i don't know but i'll get it to you .. there like a list of millions of products from ginseng to cat claw, even Thc, benzodiazepines which i don't agree with..

I have seen many topics about methylphendate ( rits ) to cause a longer pain lasting effect, but yet again i don't agree that. There a good reason why everyone chemical make up is made differently.

i think keeping it at a low level and find you best combo opiod routine and shcedule would be best, then follw the potentiator

I hope this gave you some insight or at least some plans , ( mother nature

Reputation Comments on this post:

Sorry,but rules are rules,re-post in a few days using swim e.t.c and i will make very beneficial amends to your rep...

[jon-q]

I am glad that my latest post as generated new interest in this thread(That was the intention),But let swim just remind any previous posters and any future new posters,Self incrimination be it "LEGAL OR ILLEGAL" is not allowed.As stated previously use swim,swiy,friend,pet hamster,ferret,cat,In a dream i had e.t.c e.t.c.
Thank you swiy609 for your contribution......

[Poppy13]

Hi jon-q

I am a 35 year old woman with Ehler Danlos III. I am very flexible, have thin skin, bruise easily, depression, chronic fatigue, chronic pain. I also have Tinnitus, not related to EDSIII but too many Heavy Metal Concerts!!!
I am having a problem with my doctor at the moment as he will only prescribe 84 30mg Dihydrocodeine per 28 days. But he did give me an extra 84 tablets nearly 2 weeks ago & the thought of now having to beg again for a full months supply of 168 is just getting to me. My private consultant for my condition has said he cannot tell the my GP how many tablets I can have, my GP must decide. But my GP does not know what it is like to be the pain which I have 24hrs a day 7 day ETC....

I really do feel that he thinks that I am now just turning into an addict! I even think to myself sometimes that maybe I am being a drama queen & that there is nothing wrong with me. I read the letters from all the doctors I have seen to reassure myself that EDSIII is real & that I do have a real condition which is causing this pain. I have been off work now for the last 4 months with depression but also the pain with my EDSIII has increased, it's a neverending circle. I don't sleep very well, hence theis late hour! I do yoga to help & I also get 15 2mg of Diazepam which I would like to be increased to 21 tablets per 28 days. I don't want to increase the strength of them 2mg is just right for me & they do help a lot when my wrists & ankles play up, when this happens I just feel like I want to break the bones in my wrists & ankles to stop the feeling. It's not pain but it's also not nice, really hard to explain! I also have been taking Prozac 1 20mg tablet per day.
Since I was 14 years old I have been taking 8 Solpedine per day for back ache. I went to my doctor he just said take painkillers & it would go away. It did'nt & I continued taking the 8 a day. Then I moved on to 8 Paramol every day. I thought I was an addict & people used to say "you're always popping pills". I never went over the 8 a day limit but I still thought that I was taking it because I was addicted. Fast forward to Sept 2006 I finally got diaginosed with Ehlers Danlos III. I started with 100 tablets of Co-Codamol 30/500mg but then hit the bad patch of the last few months & I have been given DHC 30mg 3 times daily. I saw my consultant as my doctor said he needed his authorisation to up the amount of DHC that I could have. I got the authorisation but the consultant only stated 3 times daily when I had said to him that I am currently taking 2 tablets 3 times daily. My doctor gave me an emergency extra 84 DHC nearly 2 weeks ago but asked me to get further authorisation from my consultant. I e-mailed him, (consultant), asking if he would send a letter or an e-mail to my doctor. But my consultant has sent an e-mail response to me saying that it is up to my GP to say how many tablets I can have. I will now have to go back to the surgery & plead my case again. I hate having to do this as it makes me look so desperate. I only get worried that I won't have proper pain relief, I enjoy the buzz from my DHC by about 10%, the other 90% is taking the rough edge off my aches & pains. I am not annoyed with the consultant but I just wish I could get onto a regular pattern with the DHC, which I am finding is helping, & I have gotten a lot of my appitite back. Don't know if there is a conection there but since I started taking DHC I am able to want food again. DHC does not make me constipated, make me feel sick, sleepy, it just helps me move!

Sorry to ramble but there is so much to put down here. Hope you can understand my wittering. Oh yes, I also smoke weed as that also helps to "mellow my bones" as I call it.

Thanks for reading!

[LostAndFound]

OK, FIRST--sorry that SWIM was AWOL for awhile--methadone withdrawal SUCKS, and putting Swim on MUCH lower doses of other opiates than she was also on, did NOT help. The past 2 weeks have been nightmares--literally as well as figuratively, (swim was kidnapped by aliens one night, chased by zombies on another, children hurt/killed in gruesome ways in others--and NO, swim does NOT watch Horror flicks anymore!!). Swims "bottom" is slowly recovering from, well, I'm sure others can guess.
Swim STILL is having MAJOR problems, not only with returning SEVERE pain but also--back on fentanyl patch, 25mcg's, but if patch is not replaced by @ 50hrs, (they are *supposed to be "good" for 72), she's curled up with cramps AGAIN. Thinking of taking advantange of Stock market and investing in Loperamide.......<sigh>
Wanted to let all know though--that before the majority of crap started, she WAS feeling better and fully believes it was because of DLPA. Unfortunately, swim ran low on funds, had to decrease dosage from 2500, (5 500mg/day) to 1000mgs and sees a HUGE difference--both in the "chronic pain"/muscle soreness from degenerative processes, backaches from osteoporosis + compression fractures, etc. PLUS more of a "dulling" of the extreme pains of the frequent dislocations, "burning" pains in back after activity, etc., as WELL AS--the frequently accompanying lack of motivation, lack of appetite, etc. was SIGNIFICANTLY improved.
Swim spoke to a LEADING US Neurologist in the fields of both pain management AND addiction. She made the following recommendations, which swim PRAYS, (and swim doesn't "pray" much), her Doc will actually take under consideration at tomorrows visit:
Increase Fent patch from 25-75mcgs over next 4 weeks. (Swim has been on up to 125mcg's in the past--Doc was VERY uncomfortable with this dosage)
Increase Oxycodone from 3 15mg/day to 5/day, (what swim was on before)
2500mg DLPA/day--ALSO--needs to be on *GOOD* daily supplement with at LEAST 1200mg of Vit C.
Calcium/Magnesium/Vit D supplement
Micalcitrin <sp?> supplement--nasal spray--for osteoporosis.
Yoga therapy
Plus--some stuff for my swims tummy--had more bleeding last week when sick, so, once AGAIN, absolutely forbidden to use any NSAID's, (swim occasionally sneaks them because they DO help--sometimes more than the opiates--but, swim also has only one finicky kidney that she has been told to protect, even more than her tummy,..so....)

Swim will let others know how it goes tomorrow. She is actually drafting up a paper and printing out the research and studies that the Neuro referred to.
Swim wanted to make one more comment--she tried "smoking" some fent a couple of days ago when pain+getting sick got too much. Not sure if it's just swim's *strange* metabolism or what, but swim did NOT like the effect. Her whole head felt like it weighed about a thousand pounds, could feel the pulse in her neck without even touching it, headache, nausea.... Swim had NEVER had that reaction from patch before, (some N&V when she first went on patch 10yrs ago, but NOTHING like this)--nor, "cheating" with the fentanyl "orally". Perhaps it was a "fluke"--precipitated by lack of food and some problems with allergies/sinus--but, she's decided not to attempt it again. Swim can't afford to end up in ER with something that may hint towards "abuse" of her meds....losing ANY pain meds would literally, put her in a Nursing Home right now--and at 48 going on, (kids said because of their ages she has to increase this) 28, she'll do ANYTHING to avoid THAT mess....
Hope someone found *some* use in this post--today is patch day--swim still hurts, but wants to attempt to get some things done, if possible.
Think *good* thought for swim tomorrow please!!!!!!!! Swim is also hoping that Doc isn't in shitty mood because his senile political candidate and his Barbie Doll and Ken--I mean Todd, isn't looking too good in the Polls and he *knows* swim is kind of an "undercover, liberal leaning,political satirist/activist" who has been running her *big mouth* lately on National TV
BE SAFE FOLKS!!! AND, hope you have a relatively pain-free day!!!!!

[jon-q]

Firstly swim is very sorry for the lateness of my reply,I have been having one or two problems!Any way swiy poppy13 you must read the rules especialy the one about self incrimination,They are very simple to understand if swiy clicks onto "FAQ N RULES"(Top blue bar) Then click on to "Site rules" it will only take you 10 mins to go through them!

Now lets get down to business,swim will try to make this as simple as possible for you to understand,Dihydrocodeine(DHC) is an active analgesic in it's own right,But like many opiates/opiods a small percentage converts itself into another more powerfull drug(dihydromorphine),This happens usually inside your liver via(CYP2D6,CYP3A4 enzyems)
There are several substances that can boost these convertions and there are also substances that reduce the effects,To make things even more confusing it is also possible to either speed up the drugs onset or slow down the onset!Are we getting all of this up to press Lol!
Let swim state again i am no Dr~However one of the worst substances to reduce the effects of DHC is prozac(fluoxetine) it further adds to swims opinion that people with genuine/cronic/long-term pain problems should only be treated by "pain relief specialists".swiypoppy13 needs to discuss this with her own GP/specialist,simply stopping taking prozac can be very dangerous and needs to be reduced over a period of time,It's also worth pointing out that even when prozac as been totaly stopped,it will remain in ones system for up to 7 days.
Swim is now going to write out a list of drugs/substances that may be of some benefit to swiy poppy13 and some that may not be of benefit.
poss benefits list~
Diazepam(Vallium) will greatly increase the sedative effects of DHC + 2-5mg Diazepam is the max needed dose(Be carefull)
Many NSAID's can increase analgesic(Pain-killing) effects of DHC=EG~Ibuprofen,Diclofenac and nalproxen (Drug synergy)
Sodium bicarbonate will speed up the onset of DHC.
General supplements=vitamin d,vitamin b12,Vitamin c (is also a poss DHC booster?) and Glucosamine sulphate may help with joint pains e.t.c(Glucosamine sulphate) also may act as a anti-inflamitry.
Quinine is another substance that offers many possible "Good effects" it is a confirmed CYP2D6 booster,It also is an anti-inflammitry and it's also a analgesic in it's own right~Tonic water contains around 80-85mg/L so half a pint(40-50mg) should be a safe dose(Quinine was linked to 23 deaths between 1969-1992 at "doses of 300-500mg" in long term users!
Many of the above items may have possible health risks for swiys with blood disorders,also the above list is a selection of helpfull/un-helpfull ideas,swim is not telling swiy to take all of the above,but to experiment and find one or two that helps swiy out...
Regards and I apologise again for delayed reply(Does swiy forgive swim?).....Q

[lorzapmail]

Swim has had lower back pain for 12 yeras from a car accident. Many back shots. Swim takes hydrocodone 10/350 (four a day) and 350 Soma(3 a day). Swim says it works most of the time. What a fun life.

[jon-q]

Originally Posted by lorzapmail

Swim has had lower back pain for 12 yeras from a car accident. Many back shots. Swim takes hydrocodone 10/350 (four a day) and 350 Soma(3 a day). Swim says it works most of the time. What a fun life.

Hello SwiLorzapmail Thanks for sharing your tales of woe with the "suffering club",could swim be so rude as to ask one or two questions of young sir/madame?.
Are swiys meds given freely or do you have to beg-pleade for pain relief medications.
Does swiyou get adequate "pain relief" from the prescribed medications and how as the pre-mentioned doseage changed(If at all) over time?
Is pain "relief" always the intended reason when the tablets are taken or does swiyou sometimes take a sneaky extra "xxx" dose in search of a more pleaseing effect!Has your Dr given you a long term diagnoses~Is this problem "fixable" with surgery/physio-therapy?
Sorry for all the questions but swi..q is genuinaly interested in this subject!Hope you can a least answer some of the above Q's.

POPPY13~The mutation swim has referd to in previous posts is "NOT" conected to EDS-Type 3-It concerns EDS-Type 4 (Vascular) collagen type 3,so no need for swipoppy to worry.If you still would like more info let swim know and he will post links to poppy(lots of boring medical reading e.t.c)

Lostand found~sorry to be so intrusive but swim worries about swiy,Is lostandfound ok?simple yes will ease swiqs nerves..

Attention Is there a doctor in the house??
Due to the nature of this thread-It is somewhat "Anti-Doctor" based? So swim thinks it would be nice(Educational)to hear the flip side of this discussion-Ie from a medical stand point~swim can not speak on behalf of any other forum members but swiself would not see this as a negative post~So if there is a Dr/Gp reading this a reply would be received with posotive thanks..
Regards swi.....q

[Poppy13]

jon-q thanks as always for any advice swiy has been able to offer!

Swiy is a gem!!

[lorzapmail]

Swims pain mang. Doc has known him for over two years and has wrote books on pain. The meds are his suggestions. Surgery is out of the question, or at the least exploratory. Swim will not do. Without him swim would be on disability. Swim started with 3 norco a day also 3 Soma. The meds continue to work with the back shots every 4 to 7 weeks. Doc does make swim bring in pill bottles each visit to make sure swim does not abuse. Hope this takes care your interest.