UK - drug testing coming to a bar, pub, club now!

[adzket]

in swim's area, they have started bringing drug testing machines to the bars and clubs in there area. swim is not 100% shure how they work but basicaly what they do is take a swab of the parlm of swim's hand then run it threw a machine which shows up even small amounts of drugs, they then refuse entry. swim has issue with this as if they have used medicine or drugs erlyer then they will be refused entry when there not doing anything wrong. they are also coating any serfaces which could be used to line up on in baby oil. to stop people lineing up! now swim works within the hospitaity industry and does not agree with these tacktics being used.

whatch the link quickly there normaly only on for a week!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7623357.stm

[jon-q]

Bloodyhell what they trying to do! The pubtrade is already on it's knees in the uk,they've banned smoking recentlyand now there going to try and bring this in.what next i ask myself maybe a fart-detection device could be invented,3 burps and your out,,.

[Lunar Loops]

Not new in the UK been tried in other areas already.

See here for one example:

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...g+testing+pubs

[Alfa]

Originally Posted by adzket

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7623357.stm

I find the remarks of the pub owner (who is essentially an alcohol dealer) pretty ironic, since many of his complaints relate to alcohol just as well.

[Purest]

As has been said already, way to kill the pub scene. True not everyone wants to be surrounded by people doing vast amounts of cocaine when they're going to the pub to chill out with some friends. Still if people know they're going to be tested for drug residue, just out of principle a large amount of people will stop going out.

That video annoyed me for saying about the use of hard drugs rising, surely if the numbers are rising its because of either something the government is or isn't doing.

[adzket]

Originally Posted by Alfa

I find the remarks of the pub owner (who is essentially an alcohol dealer) pretty ironic, since many of his complaints relate to alcohol just as well.

swim agrees thats why they are pissed with these tactiks being used with in there industry by scarmongering idiot's, swim choses to sell alcohol to make a liveing and has done training in addiction, and awarness of drug and alchol abuse. also swim knows alot of there customers use drugs. and would not dream of doing this they control the situwation by being vigalent and useing discretion to deal with these problems. does anyone atualy know how these machines work are they acurate and what if you handel drugs as part of job or traces on bank notes, as more than likely he could have coke on his hands by end of a buzy night in the pub trade.

[RoboCodeine7610]

Holy shit! What are clubs gonna be like without any drugs? Anyways, I'm pretty sure they'll find a way to fool the machine, something than detects drugs in minutes can't be too accuarate.

[KomodoMK]

This has been used for possibly more than a year in my area of South East England. I believe the system is called Ion Track. The policy is that you have to be tested to enter the venue, if you test positive you have to be searched by the police for drugs, if no drugs are found you are still refused entry due to the positive result. This is done in a small room at the side of the entrance of clubs.

Posters are displayed in pubs for random visits for testing, but this has not been known in our area as far as I am aware. It has been used in the city centre but I tend not to frequent there in favour of the local pubs for the most part so I am not sure how prevalent it's use is.

[BuffaloBoobs]

Originally Posted by KomodoMK

The policy is that you have to be tested to enter the venue, if you test positive you have to be searched by the police for drugs, if no drugs are found you are still refused entry due to the positive result.

Damn. That's harsh. All this does is hurt the pub's revenues.

[adzket]

Originally Posted by BuffaloBoobs

Damn. That's harsh. All this does is hurt the pub's revenues.

it will be worse on clubs, it all ready takes maybe the best part of 4.5 hrs to fill a club with say 2500 clubbers, with pat downs and bag serching, somtimes metal detector's, these machines will meen what stoping everyone and scaning inpossible unless you still want peple cueing when your about to close and clubs charge on entry unless one has bought a ticket beforhand and bet you would not get that money back. swim is also curious at how or if it could be fooled and the range of drugs it tests for? as other wise it could go back to the old days when clubs and there door staff took bribes to let people in or sold drugs them selfs. which was still going on till erly 90's and thats somthing swim does not want to see happen again, gangs controling bar's & clubs

atualy swim has just rememberd in a club they used to go to back in the 90's there was three dealers all in a line selling things one had speed and pills one coke and the other acid they used to coat there hands with somthing to stop them tripin due to the amount of tabs they where handerling people could cue like waiting for a bus to buy drugs. what could that of been on there hands and could it be used now swim thinks so,

[elpatto]

This is something that makes SWIM angry. This has to be a violation of some right, if not of the individual, then of the owners.

It makes no sense either, if you test at the door, people will start to just bring it in, the amount of dealers in a club will be phenominal. By anyones standards dealing drugs is worse then using drugs.

One would think sales would absolutly plummet, has anyone every wondered why a bottle of water is so expensive at a rave club?? It is clear that these clubs owners are sure, infact in some cases catering to, a user market. Whether this is moral or not, it is the way it is. The nature of such "Party drugs" is that one will often love the flashing lights and loud music.

Peace.

[adzket]

Originally Posted by elpatto

This is something that makes SWIM angry. This has to be a violation of some right, if not of the individual, then of the owners.

It makes no sense either, if you test at the door, people will start to just bring it in, the amount of dealers in a club will be phenominal. By anyones standards dealing drugs is worse then using drugs.

One would think sales would absolutly plummet, has anyone every wondered why a bottle of water is so expensive at a rave club?? It is clear that these clubs owners are sure, infact in some cases catering to, a user market. Whether this is moral or not, it is the way it is. The nature of such "Party drugs" is that one will often love the flashing lights and loud music.

Peace.

the whole point is you cant take it in as if you have been incontact with drugs then the test would show up possitve so swiy would not be aloud in to sell anything, as how could swim sell drugs and not touch them.

[KomodoMK]

Originally Posted by adzket

the whole point is you cant take it in as if you have been incontact with drugs then the test would show up possitve so swiy would not be aloud in to sell anything, as how could swim sell drugs and not touch them.

This could probably be quite easily circumvented by either carefully handling the drugs on the night of going out or using medical or equivalent gloves. The test works by the sweat/moisture in your hands coming into contact with drugs fairly recently.

I could see it catching unaware people out but once (and if) it becomes common place I'm pretty sure the system will be beat.

[Nature Boy]

It seems over-the-top but if certain venues have that much of a cocaine problem, it's up to the owners to decide whether they want to implement this. Thank fuck it's not required by law (yet). I'm not sure if I would be comfortable going into a venue that did this sort of testing. Although SWIM doesn't do blow, he smokes weed quite often and seeing as this machine tests for all "drugs" (I'm guessing mainstream recreational drugs) there's a very good chance he could be caught out. Thinking about it however, a simple wash of the hands makes this machine completely obsolete. Perhaps the inventor of this machine is making a tidy profit based on the stupidity of these pub owners. The baby oil in the toilet idea seems somewhat effective but I'm sure a determined coke sniffer would find a way around that. One can easily snort a line off the back of a credit card. Wonder what the monthly baby oil bill would amount to. Surely good businesses have better things to spend their money on.

[FuBai]

Originally Posted by Nature Boy

It seems over-the-top but if certain venues have that much of a cocaine problem, it's up to the owners to decide whether they want to implement this. Thank fuck it's not required by law (yet). I'm not sure if I would be comfortable going into a venue that did this sort of testing. Although SWIM doesn't do blow, he smokes weed quite often and seeing as this machine tests for all "drugs" (I'm guessing mainstream recreational drugs) there's a very good chance he could be caught out. Thinking about it however, a simple wash of the hands makes this machine completely obsolete. Perhaps the inventor of this machine is making a tidy profit based on the stupidity of these pub owners. The baby oil in the toilet idea seems somewhat effective but I'm sure a determined coke sniffer would find a way around that. One can easily snort a line off the back of a credit card. Wonder what the monthly baby oil bill would amount to. Surely good businesses have better things to spend their money on.

Yes, I also wonder how effective the machine would be at picking up traces of drugs after hands have been washed. I suppose that the bar owner doesn't really give a damn if you do lines elsewhere, he's simply looking to stop those bringing drugs, or those who are currently high, from coming into his establishment. Listening to the arguments presented, he's concerned mainly about anti-social behaviour, although I should imagine there's concern for his lisence should people be found to be using drugs on his premises, and the machine may well be able to reduce both those problems. This is because one would imagine that traces from handling drugs and thier packaging are unlikley to have been washed off if the individual was attempting to get them into the venue, although it will not take long for people to find ways around it. Simply carrying around a pair of disposable rubber gloves for handling drugs seems like a good way of avoiding it.

[adzket]

Originally Posted by FuBai

Yes, I also wonder how effective the machine would be at picking up traces of drugs after hands have been washed. I suppose that the bar owner doesn't really give a damn if you do lines elsewhere, he's simply looking to stop those bringing drugs, or those who are currently high, from coming into his establishment. Listening to the arguments presented, he's concerned mainly about anti-social behaviour, although I should imagine there's concern for his lisence should people be found to be using drugs on his premises, and the machine may well be able to reduce both those problems. This is because one would imagine that traces from handling drugs and thier packaging are unlikley to have been washed off if the individual was attempting to get them into the venue, although it will not take long for people to find ways around it. Simply carrying around a pair of disposable rubber gloves for handling drugs seems like a good way of avoiding it.

a licence holder can not get into trouble for people useing drugs on the premis unless they are involved in making it easy or avalible for people. which trust swim is a very hard thing for the police to do. you only have to do your best to up hold public safty and to stop anti social behavior. you can directly or indirectly be in trouble for people doing illegal things. sell alcohol to a drunk or a child however and your in the s**t. also if just washing your hands helps swiy's could just carry wet wipes or anti bacterial cleaner like the sort used in hospitals.

[FuBai]

Originally Posted by adzket

a licence holder can not get into trouble for people useing drugs on the premis unless they are involved in making it easy or avalible for people. which trust swim is a very hard thing for the police to do. you only have to do your best to up hold public safty and to stop anti social behavior. you can directly or indirectly be in trouble for people doing illegal things. sell alcohol to a drunk or a child however and your in the s**t. also if just washing your hands helps swiy's could just carry wet wipes or anti bacterial cleaner like the sort used in hospitals.

The police have a lot of clout in council descisions to renew licenses, and several bars and clubs in Nottingham have simply not had thier license renewed because of drug use on premises. The police do not simply ask that you say your are against it, you have to have serious measures in place to prevent it, and this would be one of those measures.

[adzket]

Originally Posted by FuBai

The police have a lot of clout in council descisions to renew licenses, and several bars and clubs in Nottingham have simply not had thier license renewed because of drug use on premises. The police do not simply ask that you say your are against it, you have to have serious measures in place to prevent it, and this would be one of those measures.

not beeing funnie with swiyfubai, yes they do but more on who the designated premis supervisor will be not alot else, if one has sertain crimanal convictions wether spent or not goes against someone who wants to hold a licence, but swim has been in licencenced trade for 11 yrs now and know the law inside out and back to frount. swim i8s curently a teacher of this subject and sits on local licincing board, so know what there talking about. it was probably more to do with trouble like fights associated to drug use or another flout of regulation.

[cra$h]

So if you blazed the day (or more) before, you can't get into a bar? Offly ironic. You have to be sober to get fucked up. I'd hit the guy who'd test me for walking into a building.....

[bcubed]

Interesting. I'm not AS against the testing as a known pre-condition for entry as I'd be about random tests while inside (after all, one can always choose to frequent pubs not run by tightasses). What would rub ME (judging from the link) is that, if one queues up, then a) changes one's mind about entry or b) figures out, while in line, about the test and declines to submit to the test, that's sufficient cause do detain and search? Perhaps it's a UK thing--does one have the right not to consent to a search there?

[adzket]

Originally Posted by bcubed

Interesting. I'm not AS against the testing as a known pre-condition for entry as I'd be about random tests while inside (after all, one can always choose to frequent pubs not run by tightasses). What would rub ME (judging from the link) is that, if one queues up, then a) changes one's mind about entry or b) figures out, while in line, about the test and declines to submit to the test, that's sufficient cause do detain and search? Perhaps it's a UK thing--does one have the right not to consent to a search there?

no unfortunatly not. or u get arested ne ways. so no point refuseing.

[FuBai]

Originally Posted by adzket

no unfortunatly not. or u get arested ne ways. so no point refuseing.

But you can legitimately refuse to take the test and, unless there are actually Policemen present at the door with the machine you can walk away without being searched (surely?).

[adzket]

Originally Posted by FuBai

But you can legitimately refuse to take the test and, unless there are actually Policemen present at the door with the machine you can walk away without being searched (surely?).

licenced door staff have power to serch you when going or atempting to go in a privet venue, if you refuse at the door they will try and serch u or call the police, lots of power is given to people other than police.

[FuBai]

Well it appears I may be wrong, but here are some other related posts I found:

Clubbers hold hands up as drugs detected by $64,000 Machine

Drug Swab tests for pub entry

I'm sure there was another simmillar thread about drug testing at the door somewhere, but that people could decline and just be refused entry - it may be a trick of the imagination. I know that you do get quite a few bent doormen who search you and pocket the drugs, but otherwise, if you are not coming on the premises, why bother with the hassle?

[adzket]

Originally Posted by FuBai

Well it appears I may be wrong, but here are some other related posts I found:

Clubbers hold hands up as drugs detected by $64,000 Machine

Drug Swab tests for pub entry

I'm sure there was another simmillar thread about drug testing at the door somewhere, but that people could decline and just be refused entry - it may be a trick of the imagination. I know that you do get quite a few bent doormen who search you and pocket the drugs, but otherwise, if you are not coming on the premises, why bother with the hassle?

because if there licenced that will be like local council and they have simerlar responsibilitys as licencey's but they can detain you if you get to the door and refuse a serch if they wish to. true it is wether they can be botherd. the yrs of most sercruity pockiting drugs is behind us but swim feels this machine will bring back times when gangs go into sercurity to sell drugs at venues. just tell people they do have powers to hold untill police turn up. lots of people in the uk do. from dog wardens, lolypop people. park wardens, trafic wardens are all people who can detain you for instance for the police to come deal with. we are fuck as far as rights go realy in the uk. the legislation is offen not in peoples favor, when we are meent to be a free country ect.. swim could go on but stop's hear.